Post/Author/DateTime	Post
MasonMurdoc 10-06-07, 08:41 PM	I was curious what kind of battle tactics different NPCs coul have so made this thread. I only have one, oh and put what it suits best. 1: Endless Arrows: o=Crossbowman -=I needed this to have them in formation properly o o o o o o o o o o = Unit 1 -o o o o o o o o o = Unit 2 party Unit 2 fires first, then steps back 5 feet to reload next turn. While they reload Unit 2 steps forward 5 feet and fires fires, then it keeps going like that. Pretty simple but would be pretty effective I think. I look forward to seeing what you come up with. EDIT: This seems like a good way to make player fight smart. EDIT2: With this tactic, they would be acting at the same time, so would it be ok to allow them to have the same initiative roll, unless there formation is broken.
Senevri 10-06-07, 08:56 PM	Even group of n individuals. Half of them are carrying tower shields, the rest longbows. The following loop: Longbowmen move 5ft step, then fire. Immediately after this, Tower Shield men move and provide total cover for themselves and the longbowmen. Practically, only melee or attacks which destroy the shields will hurt them. give a good, defensible location, and you have some nice destruction going on.
Prator_the_Legendary 10-06-07, 09:03 PM	Any group of low-level wizards, set in a formation so that they are standing in two straight lines, one behind the other. The front line is a little to the left of the back line so the back line has a "Window" to fire through without shooting anyone in front of them. n n n n n n n n n n n n n n n n n ...Voila, you have magical artillery! Have all of them cast fireballs on whatever targets present themselves to wreak massive devastation! Or, have them all fire lighting bolts directly in front of them, to completely demolish enemy formations! Or, hey, why not have them all direct magic missiles at a single target to reduce it to atoms with no saving throw?
MasonMurdoc 10-06-07, 09:09 PM	Nice. Just outa curisity, are this individual ideas, or constructive critizism on mine? If there individual, can you number them?
Genevieve_Evernight 10-06-07, 09:15 PM	These are some tactics my friends and I incorporated into overall battle strategies for ship combat: 4- Spirit Wall(spell compendium) cast in a cylinder around the mast of an enemy ship....has a 60ft fear effect that causes affected creatures to flee, so any low level sailors are likely to run off the edge of the ship into the water...you do need a high level caster for this though -----in conjunction with the above, you can have druids summon sharks or other nasty sea-creatures to the water around said enemy ships 5- Cloudkill can be used on enemy ships...very effective against low-level NPCs 6-Wall of Fire(DM discretion) cast in a cylinder directly in front of an enemy ship. The ship can't turn fast enough to avoid going through the wall and since it's in a cylinder every NPC on the ship passes through the wall TWICE. This one's a bit iffy b/c you'd be casting the wall on the water. The spell description in the PHB doesn't say that it has to be cast on solid ground (so our DM allowed it), but it would have to a DM call for any campaign.
MasonMurdoc 10-06-07, 09:18 PM	These are some tactics my friends and I incorporated into overall battle strategies for ship combat: 4- Spirit Wall(spell compendium) cast in a cylinder around the mast of an enemy ship....has a 60ft fear effect that causes affected creatures to flee, so any low level sailors are likely to run off the edge of the ship into the water...you do need a high level caster for this though -----in conjunction with the above, you can have druids summon sharks or other nasty sea-creatures to the water around said enemy ships 5- Cloudkill can be used on enemy ships...very effective against low-level NPCs 6-Wall of Fire(DM discretion) cast in a cylinder directly in front of an enemy ship. The ship can't turn fast enough to avoid going through the wall and since it's in a cylinder every NPC on the ship passes through the wall TWICE. This one's a bit iffy b/c you'd be casting the wall on the water. The spell description in the PHB doesn't say that it has to be cast on solid ground (so our DM allowed it), but it would have to a DM call for any campaign. There pretty awesome. I like the wall of fire one. Mainly because I like fire. They're awesomely cruel. ^^
Genevieve_Evernight 10-06-07, 09:21 PM	There pretty awesome. I like the wall of fire one. Mainly because I like fire. They're awesomely cruel. ^^ We had A LOT of fun with them. Especially b/c our party had a wiz and a sorc. The sorc cast the walls of fire while the wiz used things like fireball and lightning bolt to back it up :D We pwned a lot of enemy ships :evillaugh
MasonMurdoc 10-06-07, 09:25 PM	We had A LOT of fun with them. Especially b/c our party had a wiz and a sorc. The sorc cast the walls of fire while the wiz used things like fireball and lightning bolt to back it up :D We pwned a lot of enemy ships :evillaugh Haha awesome. If my party ever end up out a see, I'll be sure to do that. :D
Senevri 10-06-07, 09:29 PM	7. This is obvious, but reach weapons and circling - especially around levels 4-8. Use creatures with, say, longspears to circle and flank the opposition's tank. Even if they're significantly lower level, the free AoOs and flanking bonuses are nasty. Alternatively, after hitting, you can have them take a 5ft. step away - this way, they'll never get a full attack in, and the groups which the opponent didn't approach on their turn, get to charge.
MasonMurdoc 10-06-07, 09:39 PM	7. This is obvious, but reach weapons and circling - especially around levels 4-8. Use creatures with, say, longspears to circle and flank the opposition's tank. Even if they're significantly lower level, the free AoOs and flanking bonuses are nasty. Alternatively, after hitting, you can have them take a 5ft. step away - this way, they'll never get a full attack in, and the groups which the opponent didn't approach on their turn, get to charge. I think I'm misundersanding. Do you mean run around in circles around the enemy?
Novem 10-06-07, 09:42 PM	1.) Typical Roman battle formation: Tower Shields, Breastplate (Mithral, if available), Long or Short Swords, and Javelins. They should be Fighters with relatively high Dex and Improved Initiative. Throw, Provide Concealment, use as AC boost for melee against attackers. 2.) Alexaderian Phalanx: High Dex, lightly armored Fighters with Longspears or an equivalent. Have Archers bombard enemies from the rear 3.) Elven Switch: Have a row of Archers in front, followed by a row of Whip Dagger- using Elves. Enemies who charge the seemingly fragile formation will be hit by a number of AoO's. Alternately, second row has Tower Shields and Longswords-this way, a fight against other Archers will go better. 4.) Goblin Patrol[/I: 4 Goblin mounter Fighters of 6th level or higher ride on Warg mounts into battle. The Wargs all have as many levels in Psion as possible, and will act as a secondary party. 5.) [I]Kobold War Party: 3- pronged attack. 1 and 3 prongs attempt to flank, while 2 prong offers a main assault. Mage-types utilize summoning spells to create cannon fodder to send into battle first, and attempt to neutralize enemy caster/ manifesters. 2 prong consists of the following lines (In order): Warrior (Spear), Warrior (Longspear), Fighter (Grappler/ Kukri), Fighter (Tower Shields), Fighter (Archery). Other prongs consist of Rogues and Fighters, and many Grappler/ Kukri- ers are present. 6.) Dwarrow Thunder: Gnome Bards and Wizards cast illusions of a flanking force, while Dwarven Fighters Charge Directly. Bards then attempt to disguise themselves, and, with the aid of Halfling rogues, flank the opponent. Illusionists attempt to prevent their disappearance from being noticed. 7 Human Sweep: (A=Archer, T= Tower Shield and Sword, H= Halberd) ATATATATATAT.... H_H_H_H_H__H_.... Round one: Halberdiers (Improved Initiative, Combat Reflexes, high Dex): Ready 5-ft step to replace archers under any circumstance Round one: Towers (Combat Expertise, Improved Feint, Human Paragon3/Sor1/Ftr1): Total concealment. Round one: Archers: Fire. Just think creatively.
Senevri 10-06-07, 09:53 PM	I think I'm misundersanding. Do you mean run around in circles around the enemy? Form a circle around the enemy. No matter how he moves, he's taking multiple AoOs, the ones he approached can 5ft. step away and attack, and the ones who cannot reach him anymore can now charge. Not to mention what you can do with Aid Another. It's pretty versatile vs. melee types - a good tactic for goons, if there are enough threats to divide and conquer the opposition. The neat thing is, a bunch of CR 2s can challenge a CR 6 or CR 8 like this.
metalmayhem80110 10-06-07, 09:57 PM	Only one problem with most of these tactical setups... A group of 5th level (fireball slinging) wizards could totally demolish them....
FarrenCronwing 10-06-07, 10:09 PM	A simple ol' cavalry maneuver... Capable of demolishing enemy ranks. With the letter h each represented a heavily armored lance wielding knight (with levels in cavalier, if at all possible) h h h h h h h h h h h 3 h h h h h h h h h h h h 2 h h h h h h h h h h h 1 In the first round, the first row reaches the enemy, dishing out about 3d8+6 damage for every soldier that hits. Assuming they have levels in cavalier, they have access to the deadly charge ability, dealing nearly twice this damage. Rinse and repeat for round 2, only with unit 2 charging and unit 1 turning around for a second charge (they're not yet capable of charging yet, though.) By turn 3, row 1 charges again and now about 12d8+24 damage has been done per troop. From here on, repeat steps 2 and 3 until one side is dead or has retreated.
Senevri 10-06-07, 10:16 PM	Only one problem with most of these tactical setups... A group of 5th level (fireball slinging) wizards could totally demolish them.... That's why tower shields are so great. You can use them to block line of effect. But... yeah.
Master_Vega 10-06-07, 11:25 PM	In a particular navel battle, I was playing a psion and used disintegrate on one of the enemy ship's hulls... I picked a spot on said hull that was near the waterline. Ship-sinking fun! ^^ :P ... Of course my psion had horrible aim and disintegrated two 5' cubes of water before hitting the ship, but whatever. Same campaign, land battle. The enemy had all of its arrows (save for the ones their archers had on them) in one place... The siege/acquisitions commander gave us some potent fire ad-mixtures and, well, I think you can guess the rest. When our side broke the rules of engagement, our party was actually bargained out of the battle to keep the other side from using their magic division... yes, the whole freakin' magic division. :D
Novem 10-06-07, 11:51 PM	The Mutiny Tactic: Summon a creature on another ship or enemy formation, and watch the chaos. Make it near someplace important, say, the powder room? "Tactical analysis, Mr. Data": Strengths: Surprising diversion which will slow down enemies and give your forces time to strike. Disadvantages: Extremely short range Requires: Magician/ Psion The Teleportation tactic: As Mutiny, but with teleportations. "Kobold Kobob": Utilize wall spells and powers to pin enemies into a bottleneck. Get a Dragon with a Line breath weapon to breath down the trench. Or use the trapped troops to your advantage some other way. Strengths: Potent show of force, efficient, versatile Disadvantages: Can be ineffective or weak vs. other strategies Requires: Magic/Psionics Mounted Phalanx: This formation is 3 rows deep: Mounted Archers in the first row, controlled or unleashable monsters (such as Awakened Deinonychus) in the second, and Mounted combatants in the third. Strategy: Volley, Monster Charge, Volley, etc.,- the Mounted Combatants ready Charge actions to be released should any come minimum range (10 ft) Strengths: Utilizes expendable resources, Harries enemies. When enemy ranged force is available, the formation can adapt and use hit-and-run to take down the superior, yet slower, foot archers. Disadvantages: May be evil (could be a strength), and possibly ineffective versus other mounted formations. Requires: Mounts Druid Dragoons: Ride on Companion. Wildshape. Flank. Kill. Strengths: Flanking, Druids Disadvantages: Not Applicable Requires: Druids.
MasonMurdoc 10-07-07, 05:20 PM	Bump, because I think this is a pretty good idea, and I don't tend to get many of those.
MasonMurdoc 10-09-07, 09:16 AM	I would have thought something like this would get the attention of a few more people. NPCs that think smart is a good thing, right?
Magrus 10-09-07, 02:28 PM	That's why tower shields are so great. You can use them to block line of effect. But... yeah. If you aim the fireball 5 ft to the side and 5 ft behind the guy with the tower shield, he still gets burned.
MasonMurdoc 10-09-07, 02:33 PM	If you aim the fireball 5 ft to the side and 5 ft behind the guy with the tower shield, he still gets burned. Awesome. A tactic used against a tactic, keep 'em comin' people!
VulcanStormwrath 10-09-07, 02:49 PM	Holding a pass or bridge. Archers let loose with wooden or stone headed arrows while bottlenecked opponents are subjected to Repel Metal.
Thubby 10-09-07, 03:08 PM	4 rogues, in the woods, surround the party and fire, at a good range finding them is near impossible, and it can take several rounds to reach 1 guy in underbrush, much less all 4 of them.
MasonMurdoc 10-09-07, 06:18 PM	4 rogues, in the woods, surround the party and fire, at a good range finding them is near impossible, and it can take several rounds to reach 1 guy in underbrush, much less all 4 of them. That's pretty nasty...and awesome :D
VulcanStormwrath 10-09-07, 07:11 PM	That's pretty nasty...and awesome :D Until the wizard sets the woods ablaze. (Counter strategy)
MasonMurdoc 10-09-07, 07:15 PM	Until the wizard sets the woods ablaze. (Counter strategy) Haha. Nice.
VulcanStormwrath 10-09-07, 07:24 PM	Invisible Spell, Cloudkill/ Incendiary Cloud Opponent has high ground, Grease and Blade Barrier (Wizard/Cleric duo) Darkness, Silence, Summon something with Scent or Blindsight Teleportation Circle- Destination 300ft up, Land. Take falling damage. Repeat.
MasonMurdoc 10-09-07, 07:35 PM	Opponent has high ground, Grease and Blade Barrier (Wizard/Cleric duo) Is this the enemy sliding into the blades? If so, that is grusomely awesome.
VulcanStormwrath 10-09-07, 07:41 PM	Is this the enemy sliding into the blades? If so, that is grusomely awesome. Yup
meto30 10-10-07, 04:14 AM	DISCLAIMER:: The following text is my belief. I am not saying anything as truth; they are my thoughts. If I say "A is B" I mean "I think A is B". I believe most RW classical age tactics wont work because of the huge difference in firepower soldiers face. A hundred Trebuchets don't even begin to match the awesome destruction a single wizard or a sorcerer can unleash. And in fantasy settings there are so few nations that can harness enough manpower to provide 'large set-piece' tactical maneuvers. But if these conditions are satisfied, I think these maneuvers will work. Condition 1: The number of non-magic-users greatly outnumber magic-users, at least by 500-to-one Condition 2: The population of a nation is around 100,000 or more. Condition 3: The authority of the nation is politically powerful enough to levy armies with ease. Wizard and Slave Tactic. Troops form a closed formation around a company consisting entirily of mages, preferably wizards. Third of them use abjurative magic, and cast those with metamagic feats like extend and maxmize. Anything that would prevent most magic from effecting the mage company directly would suffice. The rest are throwing magics at the enemy; evocation is not the only solution here. While evocation is cool, mass bull's strength, heroism and enlarge person cast on the soldiers would be more effective, not to mention easy, I believe. Combination of Abjuration, Enchantment and Transmutation wizards and their slave-like soldiers ready to die would be a great army. If we throw in Necromancy into the mix, we instantly have an evil tinge with our army. Conjuration would be nice, too, but those would be less effective because the wizards already have a lot of soldiers to do their bidding. Traditional Hella Phalangite and Companion Cavalry Tactic This is already mentioned in the above posts, but I will write this down nonetheless. The keypoint to this formation is that traditional phalanxs were centered around overlapping shields and long reach of the sarrisa spear. The spears themselves were 5 meters in lengh, which is like 17 feet. This length renders the sarrisa useless in small maneuvers; it is for large-size battles. The similar idea can be used in DnD, although the presense of magic makes this tactic less potent. For starters, each formation can be protected with repel metal spells. The shaft of the sarrisa is wooden, and so is the hoplon shield. Maybe repel metal spell can effect only the area between the formation and the enemy, allowing the soldiers themselves to be armored in metal. The overlapping shields of the phalanx is in effect hundreds of heavy shields put in a wall. Rulls don't allow this sort of thing, but DMs can interpret three heavy shields connected in a line as a tower shield. The shields might be enchanted with repel metal, even. And protected from certain elements prior to battle if the enemy has casters. The power of the phalanx lies in its coherent battle line and its near invincibility from the front. To protect the all too vulnerable flanks, cavalry is needed. Companion cavalry is in effect the knight class. However, the companion is not designed for frontal charge; they skirmish with other cavalry and drive the enemy from the back. They are flankers and ambushers, and their armor reflects this. Each companion would prefer speed and maneuverability to protection from spells and arrows. They would use their speed to their greatest advantage while confronting mages, trying to close in and destroy the concentration of the mages before they do any significant damage. They would charge through formations and aim straight for the casters if they are protected with traditional formations. Some illusion spells and simple abjuration spells that could prevent the casters from targetting the companions properly will help greatly, for instance a mirror image fake formation of cavalry charging from the right flank while the true company goes around the enemies at a distance to close in directly from the rear. Roman Legions and their adaptation to fantasy I was reluctant to give any ideas on the legionnaries when I decided to write this post, because I personally love these soldiers, but their protective moves would be useless against magic. But still, here we go. Basic repelling and protection from element spells on the scutum shields will be the beginning move. These shields will upon converging together provide protection from weaker spells, forcing casters to rely on heavier evocations and more potent mind affecting spells. Caster sergeants (or decion, if you prefer the term) would march alongside soldiers providing them with much needed protection, while the centurion herald (a bard in effect) invigorates the soldiers and inspires them to greater strength. Wizard officers would run to and fro on horseback, providing magical assistance wherever neccesary. Sorcerer companies would form the forerank artillery, to wreck havoc upon enemy lines and then retreat behind cover of the legionnary centurions. Thousands of already prepared stones with explosive runes cast upon them will be thrown via catapults and (if you like the idea) trebuchets. Wizard artillery officers would activate the runes when they near the ground for maximum effect. Hundreds of archers would maintain a continuous rain of arrows and ballistae spears which would not only damage the troops but draw the attention of the enemy casters away from the marching line of the legions, even for a small bit. When the lines crash for melee, the legions would switch formations as is their fame, pulling formations back and pushing fresh formations into the fray, while the tired formations are healed back to shape by sanctioned clerics. Cavalry would be very heavily armored, relying on shock power to drive through troops. Unlike the Hellenic tactics I presented above, the Romans would not rely on speedy rushes against casters to move them out of play. They would blunt the blows of magic, slowly marching forward, withstanding the evocations until the enemy army succombs to the great fist that is the roman legion. The basic idea is, of course, that Romans were systemized to such an extent that every single situation in the armies had a corresponding contingency plan. The same infrastructure is used here as well. Romans would not rely on singular wizards casting powerful spells. They would rely on weaker casters trained by the military to protect their formations, and imploy tactics that would allow them to survive lots of hazards and slowly drive the enemy into the ground, much in the way a tide swallows a small oceanic rock. Their victory is 'slow but inevitable'. Roman wisdom and patience wins the day. Classic Roman style campaigns would present large battles between Roman Legions and some other culture which is lead by a single powerful sorcerer, or a group of casters and clerics who are very powerful and feared. Strong characters pitted against the systemical style of the Romans would make an interesting battle indeed. Medieval armies. Most fantasyscape nations use this tactic anyway, but here's some ways I present to fine-tune the large scale armies. Unlike the tactical Hellas and the systemical Romans, Medieval Europe is very unsophisticated and unorganized. This is mainly due to national wealth; most medieval kings and lords simply didn't have the money to maintain standing armies, and so relied on mercenaries and peasant levies instead. Such temporary armies prevents the nation from developing any hierarchy within the military and providing systemical tactics. The only true permenant element would be the marshall-commanders and knight-captains. These strong characters hold the key to medieval combat, and that is why medieval battle is favored by fantasy RPGs, since they allow for adventurers filling in the rolls of captains. Medieval armies would center around very powerful and potent commanders surrounded by a sea of stupidity and incompetence. Wizards and Sorcerers would run amoc, Fighters and Barbarians would slice through soldiers like a scythe through harvest wheat, and Rangers would use enemy hulks as target practice. In medieval climate it is east to produce heroes whose acts inspire courage among allies and inspire fear and hate among enemies. "Milord, the Orc Company has been slaughtered by a single elf wizard." Imagine how this would sound in a human royal court and an orcish chieftain's house. Also note how strange it would be to hear this in Roman or Hellenic courts. The reactions would change as well. That is the end of this post. I hope I was a help.
Thubby 10-10-07, 02:41 PM	Until the wizard sets the woods ablaze. (Counter strategy) and burn themselves to death along with 1/2 the country side?
gixanthrax 10-10-07, 04:29 PM	I quite like to ambush my party. In the woods, or in the mountains. One of the nicest ambushes was to have them enter Through a bottleneckto reach a hidden valley. When all of them have entered the valley fun starts. Take some rogues who were hidden behind illousionary walls in the bottlenack to shoot their backs. Some Archers or cross bowers in the walls above them each 10 feet away of the next, acessable via a ladder that had been pulled up behind them using small windows that give them 50 % or more of cover. Now for main attacking force have some swift damageheavy barbarians to confront them first, second row heavyly armoured clerics and figthers and in some distance arcane blasters and even more archers. Never allow for more than 2 peaople in a 20X20 area as to render most area effect spells useless. A little more subtle is the scenario i set up once: Late in the evening the party discovers a goblin/ orc campside with a big fire. While killing the "evil guys" they discover some passed out hostages. And by far too many bedrolls. Now thats when the funs starts. The goblins left in the camp were only the lure, left to die. The main force is well hidden around the campside. So : The adventurers are in the middle of a clearing in the woods with say 50 feet diameter.In the middle there is a big fire burning giving illumination in a 60 feet diameter. 60 feet or more( when using enemies with nightvision greater than 60 feet) there is a circle of wellhidden ranger/ rogue Type Bugbears with composite Longbows changing positions one or the other time. add some additional ambush teams along the main " ways" throughout the forrest in about an additional 30 feet away add some blasters and have smashing yous PCs. Add ways to impedeyour players vison and movement and you will laugh your ass off. i used the scenario against a Lvl 5 group of cleric, sorcerer ranger fighter and bard, only using 3 lvl 3 goblin rangers and one Rogue /Ranger 1 Bugbear. It was a massacre, i nearly TPKed them because they acted so stupid. Fighter without nightvison using 3 rounds trying to spot the attackers...:eek:
MasonMurdoc 10-10-07, 04:53 PM	i used the scenario against a Lvl 5 group of cleric, sorcerer ranger fighter and bard, only using 3 lvl 3 goblin rangers and one Rogue /Ranger 1 Bugbear. It was a massacre, i nearly TPKed them because they acted so stupid. Fighter without nightvison using 3 rounds trying to spot the attackers...:eek: Haha! Awesome. I'll proably do something like this myself ^^