Post/Author/DateTime	Post
loben 08-29-06, 03:53 PM	1. Use of dancing lights to blind people as the take no thought to control, you can keep them on the oppentents face. this efectivly blinds thems. counter: counterspells 2. a level 4 charactor who can craft wish scrolls. long story short, the artifecers class is annoying. using that classes abilities, he crafted a limited wish spell, then used that to have his next check "succeed" which was crafted a wish scroll. counter: very interesting gameplay, including theives guilds.
ressurrector 08-29-06, 04:18 PM	long story short, the artifecers class is annoying. using that classes abilities, he crafted a limited wish spell, then used that to have his next check "succeed" which was crafted a wish scroll. counter: very interesting gameplay, including theives guilds. Just to make a correction, the Artificier can only craft items as though his caster level is 2 higher than his character level. A Limited Wish scroll has a caster level requirement of 13 (the level a Wizard would need to be to cast it) A 4th level artificier can, at worst, make a 3rd level spell scrolls.
KnaveofClubs 08-29-06, 05:09 PM	3. Blind+Ghost sound 4. Throwing the party kobold on the face of a spellcaster 5. Same kobold playing jack-in-the-box in party rogue's backpack (they both were rogues) 6. Command Word: Strip 7. Command Word: Fly (at the edge of a cliff) 8. Command Word: Steal 9. A ranger with a sunblade, vorpal longsword, quick draw, and many dancing swords
Ralvuimego 08-29-06, 05:26 PM	10: (This one needs a full explanation) The party druid wildshapes into a hawk, flies 30 feet in the air over an enemy, then wildshapes again into a 60,000 pound elder earth elemental and lands on them. Not only did I have to roll 20d6 (Would have been 303d6, but it caps out at 20d6) which is a chore in itself, but I also had to throw together rulings on being crushed by an object of immense weight!
KnaveofClubs 08-29-06, 05:34 PM	Omg genius. It reminds me of another one I had. 11. Gnome using etherealness or ethereal jaunt or like spell to get inside a great wyrm dragon's skull and while inside using whatever methods at his disposal to attack the brain, then use etherealness to get back out. Permanent Int, Wis, Cha, and Dex damage
WagnerSika 08-30-06, 09:07 AM	10: (This one needs a full explanation) The party druid wildshapes into a hawk, flies 30 feet in the air over an enemy, then wildshapes again into a 60,000 pound elder earth elemental and lands on them. Not only did I have to roll 20d6 (Would have been 303d6, but it caps out at 20d6) which is a chore in itself, but I also had to throw together rulings on being crushed by an object of immense weight! Wouldn't he suffer the same damage himself though? To loben Dancing lights cannot blind somebody, if it could it would be in the spell description and would bump it up from 0-level slot. You could rule that it distracts the opponent, maybe forcing concentration checks. But think of someone holding an oil lamp (dancing lights output comparable amount of light) on your face, would you be totally blinded? Also the caster can not just keep the light on someones face as he has to use a move action to direct the ongoing spell (PHB 143 Direct or redirect a spell) Dancing lights spell description does not state that it is an immediate action to move it, only that you don't need to concentrate on in, meaning you can do other things on your round and not risk losing the spell. Granted you could spook or annoy someone for a round or few with the spell. KanveOfClubs: Where can I find the Command Word spell? Is it higher level than Command because Command and Greater Command actually have a list of commands you can use with the spell and I don't see fky there. [First edition AD&D commentary]I remember in 1st edition the command spell only specified that the word had to be a verb that could not be confused as anything but an order to do something. There were examples what were acceptable and what not. Fly would not be acceptable as it is also a noun. Steal is ambigious, steal what? Strip is funny but could not be accomplished in 1 round (ok if the girl is REALLY hot you could strip yourself in few seconds). But strip is also a noun. [/First edition AD&D commentary] Also can you come out of ethereal jaunt inside a creature??? If so those ethereal filchers can kill anyone really easy, just manifest their hand in your chest. If you end the spell and become material while inside a material object (such as a solid wall), you are shunted off to the nearest open space and take 1d6 points of damage per 5 feet that you so travel. In other words, wouldn't work.
cvazi 08-30-06, 09:19 AM	12: Making me DM.:yuck:
Archmage Atrus 08-30-06, 09:30 AM	Also can you come out of ethereal jaunt inside a creature??? If so those ethereal filchers can kill anyone really easy, just manifest their hand in your chest. I believe the player in this situation did not become material until after he left the wyrm's space.
Gyrofthewastes 08-30-06, 09:42 AM	13. Attempting to use Tenser's Floating Disc as a Fly spell. Always annoys me to no end. Counter: It's against the rules. Too bad that doesn't stop players from continuously trying to do it.
Kimokeo 08-30-06, 11:24 AM	14. Casting True Strike in round 1. Using Whip to disarm foe in round 2 and Hand of the Mage as free action to move disarmed weapon (move action to move it 15' in any direction. Round 3 Cast True Strike, Round 4 disarm and move weapon, etc. (Disarm is a challenge between 'to hit' rolls. Mages rarely have shields so, two-hand the whip for the extra +4) This is very effective against characters with very few weapons, especially their favorites. If the weapon is magical, Mage Hand doesn't work AND it obviously reveals the weapon to be magical. * I like this tactic with the uber-fighter with most of his gold spent on one weapon. Rarely have I seen a character with two super-weapons if they're not a TWF type. Extra: Cast grease on disarmed weapon, especially if magical and it couldn't be moved.
hisnamehere 08-30-06, 12:15 PM	15. [From 2nd ed.] Have deck of many things. Draw the card that gives you one wish. Wish that all the bad card in your deck of many things are removed. Then draw all but one of the cards every time until you get carpal tunnel syndrome. Wish a away your carpal tunnel syndrome and begin again. [Guilty] 16. Be young and new to the game and ready to exploit and munchkin at every opportunity. [Guilty] 17. [From Rifts] Called shots against ammunition carried by an enemy. Successful hit makes all ammunition explode. 18. Foregoing buying clothing so you can buy more better items. 19. At will instant disguise to effectively become a doppleganger (sans eating).
Borne Of Hate 08-30-06, 12:50 PM	15. [From 2nd ed.] Have deck of many things. Draw the card that gives you one wish. Wish that all the bad card in your deck of many things are removed. Then draw all but one of the cards every time until you get carpal tunnel syndrome. Wish a away your carpal tunnel syndrome and begin again. [Guilty] You do need to declare how many cards you are going to draw prior to drawing any cards. SO in order to properly accomplish this task here is what you would need to do. ACTUALLY pull the card that gives you a wish. Wish for the next three cards pulled to be identical to the card just pulled. Pull the wish card, wish for all malignant cards to have no effect whatsoever. Pull the wish card, wish for unlimited pulls. Pull the wish card, wish to multiply the cards in the deck by 1,000. When you get low on cards just wish for more on the next wish card.
Judging Eagle 08-30-06, 01:47 PM	I'm noticing that most of these "problems" really are people not knowing the rules, bothering to see how the game really works and then saying that something is broken, when really it was the DM and Player's fault for making such a mistake in the first place. I can give you an excellent example of PCs doing something that the DM didn't expect. Really, we should reset the count though. 1. Use of dancing lights to blind people counter: Read the rules, the spell can't work that way fixed 2. a level 4 charactor who can craft wish scrolls. counter: Again, read the rules, the spell can't work that way fixed The 1st two instances are rules being broken and the DM not caring enough to see how the rules work in the first place. So.. count 0 3. Blind+Ghost sound ->Great ploy; you're better off just attacking the blinded person with ranged or reach weapons though. Count 1 so far. 4. Throwing the party kobold on the face of a spellcaster -> You realize that the grapple check and nber of checks to pull that off is pretty damned high, right? 1 Grapple check to initiate, 1 to Pin, 1 to 'move' (not throw mind you, just move someone in your round). You could have the kobold forgoe any opposed checks if they want to be thrown/moved; but it will take at least 2 rounds; one ot pick up, one to throw. Count 2... I guess. 5. Same kobold playing jack-in-the-box in party rogue's backpack (they both were rogues) Count 3... ->Not the first time I've seen a small char in the backpack of a larger one. 6. Command Word: Strip 7. Command Word: Fly (at the edge of a cliff) 8. Command Word: Steal ->Only Strip could supposedly work; Changing CW:Fly into CW:Fall or Jump could work since they're verbs; Changing CW: Steal to CW:Pilfer or Rob would make that a legitimate command as well. Count 3... 9. A ranger with a sunblade, vorpal longsword, quick draw, and many dancing swords ->Unless he rolls 20's with the Vorpal it's not that big of a deal and the ranger would have to have a third arm to continue to draw (or have return to him) the dancing swords. I don't see how this will be so 'dangerous'; unless the character had excess funds and was able to buy proper defensive/protective gear in addition to 4+ expensive magical weapons (I have a feeling there were more than 2 dancing swords however). Count 3... 10: (This one needs a full explanation) The party druid wildshapes into a hawk, flies 30 feet in the air over an enemy, then wildshapes again into a 60,000 pound elder earth elemental and lands on them. Not only did I have to roll 20d6 (Would have been 303d6, but it caps out at 20d6) which is a chore in itself, but I also had to throw together rulings on being crushed by an object of immense weight! -> Don't forget that there could be an other 3d6 in damage from falling done to the character. Count 4... 11. Gnome using etherealness or ethereal jaunt or like spell to get inside a great wyrm dragon's skull and while inside using whatever methods at his disposal to attack the brain, then use etherealness to get back out. Permanent Int, Wis, Cha, and Dex damage ->Did the Gnome cast a spell inside the skull, or 'attack' it? If the latter, he's still ethreal, so he does no damage. Count 4... 12: Making me DM -> If you insist Count 5... 15. [From 2nd ed.] Have deck of many things. Draw the card that gives you one wish. Wish that all the bad card in your deck of many things are removed. Then draw all but one of the cards every time until you get carpal tunnel syndrome. Wish a away your carpal tunnel syndrome and begin again. [Guilty] ->Like mentioned above; this can't happen unless the Wish card is always at the top of the deck or you pull it before the deck sends you to the void Count 5... 16. Be young and new to the game and ready to exploit and munchkin at every opportunity. [Guilty] ->Munchkining usually means cheating. Not powergaming. Count 5... 17. [From Rifts] Called shots against ammunition carried by an enemy. Successful hit makes all ammunition explode. -> Not related to DnD; also called shots have been gones since 2.0 Count 5... 18. Foregoing buying clothing so you can buy more better items. -> You get your 1st set of clothes free in 3.5 now. 19. At will instant disguise to effectively become a doppleganger (sans eating). ->This makes so little sense that it must obviously have been a mistake on the DM's part. Count 5... 14. Casting True Strike in round 1. Using Whip to disarm foe in round 2 and Hand of the Mage as free action to move disarmed weapon (move action to move it 15' in any direction. Round 3 Cast True Strike, Round 4 disarm and move weapon, etc. (Disarm is a challenge between 'to hit' rolls. Mages rarely have shields so, two-hand the whip for the extra +4) This is very effective against characters with very few weapons, especially their favorites. If the weapon is magical, Mage Hand doesn't work AND it obviously reveals the weapon to be magical. * I like this tactic with the uber-fighter with most of his gold spent on one weapon. Rarely have I seen a character with two super-weapons if they're not a TWF type. ->Really effective; needs a lot of spell lsots to cast this and they could be negated, but still useful and unexpected. Extra: Cast grease on disarmed weapon, especially if magical and it couldn't be moved. Count 6... 13. Attempting to use Tenser's Floating Disc as a Fly spell. Always annoys me to no end. Counter: It's against the rules. Too bad that doesn't stop players from continuously trying to do it. ->You keep those munchkins in line. After one casting failing they'll learn. I think that they can lift other people on them however. Count 7... I got the order a bit off since I was pulling from the 'previous posts' text below the reply window. So, in reality, we're at count 8, not 19; 11 useless and non-possible events inflated this count. 8. Always having Obscuring Mist ready while part of a melee-heavy party. Why? It nullifies archers, horribly. At lvl one, with a 6 man party facing a dozen kobolds with crossbows could be very dangerous, until they suddenly have to make listen checks to identify what square your in and then on top of that they still get a 50% miss chance against you will really keep the enemyies ranged fire from missing. Having the party go Prone for +4 more ac vs ranged attacks also helps. 9. Having a Changeling rogue with the changeling subtitution levels and a level of marshal (Motivate charisma); netting Diplomacy/Gather Infomation/Sense Motive and Bluff checks in the high 20's low 30's by lvl 5-6. The DM had o use an alternate diplomacy system (Witht the DC starting at 15 + Target (or Target group's Highest) HD + Target (or Target group's Highest)Wis Mod; with modiers of DC: +10/+7/+5/+2/0/-2/-5/-7/-10 depending on relationship between target and diplomant (the +10 to -10 being represented by relationships similar to the diplomat and their: sworn archnemesis/long time enemy/opposed cleric or soldiers/town gaurd who thinks they are a drunk/stranger/smith who buys their loot often/cleric of same faith/adventuring companions/spouse or lover) plus modifers of risk/reward for the target DC: +10/+5/+2/0/-2/-2/-5/-10 (examples: large reward for common info/inflated price fo commen reasource/decent (5-10%) more reward than risk/equal risk to reward/uncomfortable risk to reward/lethal risk to reward/sucidal risk to reward). Even with such a system the character sill does a good job of 'facing'.
WagnerSika 08-30-06, 03:02 PM	I believe the player in this situation did not become material until after he left the wyrm's space. Erm no. Gnome using etherealness or ethereal jaunt or like spell to get inside a great wyrm dragon's skull and while inside using whatever methods at his disposal to attack the brain, then use etherealness to get back out. Permanent Int, Wis, Cha, and Dex damage Emphasis mine. As Judging Eagle noted he can't attack the brain while inside the skull. Actually ethereal characters generally cannot affect the material world in any way. From the description of Ethereal Jaunt spellAn ethereal creature can’t attack material creatures, and spells you cast while ethereal affect only other ethereal things. Casting True Strike in round 1. Using Whip to disarm foe in round 2 and Hand of the Mage as free action to move disarmed weapon (move action to move it 15' in any direction. Round 3 Cast True Strike, Round 4 disarm and move weapon, etc. I agree with Judging Eagle but have one question. How can you use Hand of the Mage as free action? Using magic item is usually a standard action. Otherwise this is a brilliant idea and I think I'm going to make a BBEG or LBEG use this tactic. Only change Hand of Mage to an invisible kobold or something who readies an action to pick up dropped weapons and run. Consider it yoinked. About the Command spell, the list of allowed commands are as follows You give the subject a single command, which it obeys to the best of its ability at its earliest opportunity. You may select from the following options. Approach Drop Fall Flee Halt Too bad the command "masturbate" (Did I just breach the CoC? These boards are sometimes really sensitive about these things and I am not sure what constitutes as profanity here.) is not on the list... Maybe the Book of Erotic Fantasy has an appropriate spell:ayyyy!: Anyway that was a command one player used a few times in the days of 1st edition, once in the king's palace... Where is the Command Word spell? It is not listed in the spell index at crystalkeep.com. The diplomacy system has always really irked me. I mean if Frodo would have had high enough diplomacy he could have made the orcs in Mordor fricking carry them to Mt.Doom. And serve them lunch on the way. Rich Burlew has revised the Diplomacy rules here. (http://www.giantitp.com/articles/jFppYwv7OUkegKhONNF.html) They make diplomacy IMO more realistic. I know, I know realism and fantasy don't mix well anyway. Lets call it a system that makes more sense. Edit. I just read Judging Eagle post more carefully and it seems his GM was using this system or a variant of it.
Judging Eagle 08-30-06, 03:50 PM	Yeah, I reccomend to our DM to use Burlew's system b/c frankly the DM was either having the NPCs walked all over, or he flubbed the checks so that the rogue was useless. Took a few weeks to convince him of it and then eventually I guess he's realized how effective it is. Wrote down the overall modifiers on an index card to make it easier as well. As for the mage hand trick.... give the ammy to an other party member; have them hold their action to act after you've done your thing. Oh here's an other. 10. PCs who systematically Sunder clothing, use sleight of hand to unequip NPCs of gear and then deal with a much weakened NPC as a result. I know it takes a few checks (hide, sleight of hand vs spot; then a potentially provoked AoO if spotted) to rob an enemy in combat; but after taking the enemy squad commander's amulet he mighthave been easier to hit (We're still not sure what the ammy does, makes the user feel dirty though...). As for Sundering 'clothing'; our group was finishing of the "Whispers of the Vampire Blade" adventure and we were frankly sick of dealing with Lucan and his very evil sword, so the adamantine plated warforged slammed his sword-belt and ran off with the blade (couldn't break it since it took over his mind the next round). Then two other PCs tried to deal with the sword, and got mind controlled then had the sword knocked off of their belts. Finally the cleric picked it up after my archivst cast Owl's Wis to beef up his will save and placed into a Heward's Handy Haversack; cutting off the blade's influences sice it was in a different plane. That was a close encounter. 11. Allowing a Smart player to custom-craft magical items. Ones that have Legendary and Extraordianry Craftsman as well makes it worse (one reduces the base GP item cost by 25% before halfing it to see the cost of materials; the other reduces the overall XP cost by 25%). Case in point: Expeditious retreat is accesible to Archivists (via the Celerity Domain 1); as is Jump (Druid 1). If made into a Command word activated item Costs come to: 1,800 * Spell lvl * Caster lvl (Exp Retreat) + [1,800 * Spell lvl * Caster lvl]*1.5 (Jump; since it's 'disimilar' to Exp Retreat adds a 50% increase in it's cost to the item) = 4500; 4500 *0.75 = 3375 w/ Legendary Craftsman 3375/2 = 1687.5 GP to craft + 135 xp (4500/25 = 180*0.75 = 135) So 1687 gp + 135 xp instead of 2250 gp + 180 xp. Guess who crafted items for the whole party; then kept the 25% saved GP to craft hmself more items? Yeah, you guessed it.
Kimokeo 08-30-06, 04:23 PM	Mage of the Hand - magic item under wondrous. It states the user can use Mage Hand at will. Is that a standard action? If so, I agree - let another player delay their action to just after the disarm and reset their initiative and give them the device. Could the mage's familiar use the device?
thaylok 08-30-06, 04:56 PM	Erm no. Emphasis mine. As Judging Eagle noted he can't attack the brain while inside the skull. Actually ethereal characters generally cannot affect the material world in any way. From the description of Ethereal Jaunt spell Transdimensional Spells... But then again, the attacker would take damage too if it was an area effect. My players go for the low tech stuff.. trying to move the pages covering my maps to see how large a room is... (yes I draw out my maps on large pads of 1" gridded paper) But now they have to contend with a lot of false rooms and traps outside them...
KnaveofClubs 08-30-06, 05:46 PM	KanveOfClubs: Where can I find the Command Word spell? Is it higher level than Command because Command and Greater Command actually have a list of commands you can use with the spell and I don't see fky there. [First edition AD&D commentary]I remember in 1st edition the command spell only specified that the word had to be a verb that could not be confused as anything but an order to do something. There were examples what were acceptable and what not. Fly would not be acceptable as it is also a noun. Steal is ambigious, steal what? Strip is funny but could not be accomplished in 1 round (ok if the girl is REALLY hot you could strip yourself in few seconds). But strip is also a noun. [/First edition AD&D commentary] Also can you come out of ethereal jaunt inside a creature??? If so those ethereal filchers can kill anyone really easy, just manifest their hand in your chest. In other words, wouldn't work. First off, I use command word to refer to the single word you are allowed (I used to play baulder's gate) in the Command spell. Secondly, there is a space between the brain and the skull, and in a collosal-sized creature, this space is very significant. An ethereal creature can become material in this area in order to affect what is inside.
loben 08-31-06, 12:10 AM	wow, this took off with a hit..... thats another reason why I posted those here, just incase there were rules that I was missing........
The Soul Collector 08-31-06, 12:40 AM	Shadow dancers trying to hide in everyone's shadows.
WagnerSika 08-31-06, 02:53 AM	First off, I use command word to refer to the single word you are allowed (I used to play baulder's gate) in the Command spell. Secondly, there is a space between the brain and the skull, and in a collosal-sized creature, this space is very significant. An ethereal creature can become material in this area in order to affect what is inside. 1) Command. Yes the spell used to be better and in Baldurs Gate you could order an enemy to sleep, useful and within the rules. Were your examples from the 2nd edition? If so, they make a lot more sense. The commands would still have to follow the old rule of command spell, namely being unambigious and clearly verbs. Not that they would make a hilarious story, commanding the BBEG to strip and his henchmen to steal the bosses stripped clothing:D 2) Etherealness. Umm the space (called the Subarachnoid space) between the skull and the brain is like a few millimeters(if even that) and is not empty, even on a colossal creature. (Any doctors or others with firm grasp of cranial anatomy here care to explain more accurately?) The Subarachnoid Cavity (subarachnoid space) is the interval between the arachnoid mater and pia mater.It is occupied by a spongy tissue consisting of trabeculæ of delicate connective tissue, and intercommunicating channels in which the subarachnoid fluid is contained. If it were 5 feet of empty space his brain would be mashed into pulp by his own movement as his brain is just sloshing around in this huge cavity. Colossal creatures have colossal brains. It is an entertaining story yes, but it sets a nasty precedent; Why fight anything big when you can just go ethereal, manifest in their skulls and kill them there? NPC's can use the same trick against PC's. Just reduce size to fine, use etherealness, go into PC's stomach which is an empty space, pop back to the material plane inside the stomach, dispel reduce and splat, dead PC. It does not matter if there is 'significant space' (which there isn't) inside somebodys skull, you just made ethereal jaunt an instant kill spell without a save or SR. @Thaylok Transdimensional spell sounds like it would be useful. Only thing is you can't attack a creatures brain or any other part of their anatomy directly. There are no called shots in D&D and if you use a transdimensional fireball while being ethereal inside somebodys skull it still does x/d6 damage and allows a reflex save. It does not do anything else; no permanent wisdom, intelligence, dexterity damage or anything else. And sadly, I don't think it even works at allA transdimensional spell has its full normal effect on incorporeal creatures, creatures on the Ethereal plane or the Plane of Shadow, and on creatures in an extradimensional space within the spells area. The feat description does not say anything about the spell being able to affect the normal world from the ethereal plane or from extradimensional space. Therefore the spell doesn't. Otherwise this feat would be crazy good. At the start of combat, just use rope trick or etherealness to be near to invulnerable to all attacks and blast away at anything in the area. @Kimokeo. Yes it still requires a standard action to use the Hand of Mage. The 'at will' means that there are no limits to how many times you can use it. I.e. there are no charges or 'usable 1/day'. It would have been clearer to say usable 1/round. You could argue that since mage hand spell duration is concentration you could spend a standard action to activate the item and then on subsequent rounds keep concentrating on the spell effect and use only move actions to affect the item with the hand of mage from there on. It would not be game braking and would be within the spirit of the spell. I don't see why the familiar could not use the item if it had a free amulet slot. A spider familiar would have troubles but a cat or weasel wouldn't. Hehe, clothing sundering sounds so much like Zorro :) But can you sunder clothing? You can't sunder armor and your clothing is usually underneath armor. Of course arcane casters are a different matter in that sense. Is clothing like +0 armor in relation to sunder? Beacuse you can use Magic Vestment on armor or clothing if you don't wear armor. Sunder is a bit annoying beacuse you can sunder a rope with a club :yuck: @The Soul Collector Yeah that is annoying but wait till you have two Shadow Dancers hiding in each others shadow... AFAIK it is not strictly against RAW but is agains common sense. 13. Attempting to use Tenser's Floating Disc as a Fly spell. Always annoys me to no end. Counter: It's against the rules. Too bad that doesn't stop players from continuously trying to do it. ->You keep those munchkins in line. After one casting failing they'll learn. I think that they can lift other people on them however. Could two wizards ride each others disks? I remeber seeing that question asked somewhere but can't remeber what was the ruling on that. One annoying thing we constantly do to the DM (and they do to me when I DM) is doing something completely unexpected. Once our GM had this infiltration mission in a sci-fi game. We debated just nuking the place up by taking the bomb to the sewers near or undereath the place and not bother with the information gathering. He quickly had to scamper up reasons why we could not get the bomb close enough, like no sewers large enough near the place. Which is actually realistic. then two other PCs tried to deal with the sword, and got mind controlled then had the sword knocked off of their belts. Finally the cleric picked it up after my archivst cast Owl's Wis to beef up his will save and placed into a Heward's Handy Haversack; cutting off the blade's influences sice it was in a different plane. That was a close encounter. Did you not have Protecion from evil prepared? That would have solved the mind control issue easily. Protection from evil is maybe the most overpowered first level spell there is. Just craft constant effect wondorous items and not worry about charm or dominate ever again. Shouldn't bee too expensive either. I suck at pricing custom items so somebody else want to take a crack at pricing it? 10: (This one needs a full explanation) The party druid wildshapes into a hawk, flies 30 feet in the air over an enemy, then wildshapes again into a 60,000 pound elder earth elemental and lands on them. Not only did I have to roll 20d6 (Would have been 303d6, but it caps out at 20d6) which is a chore in itself, but I also had to throw together rulings on being crushed by an object of immense weight! You can easily turn this on the PC's. Phase 1: Enemy wizard does some wizzzardly things to keep PC's in a group and not moving too much like casting Evards tentacles or slow or has his minions engage the PC's. Phase two: wizard summons elemental or some other big creature, his apperentice casts fly on the elemental. The elemental flys above the party. Phase three: Apperentice dealys his action until the elemental is above the party and then dispels the fly spell on the elemental. Wizards cackles insanely and gloats. Phase four: Profit. Repeat until the party is dead or wizard runs out of spells. With luck you and the players agree never to use this tactic again and you can shelve the 'being crushed under enormous weight rules' . You could adapt the wall of iron description to other large objects falling on you Creatures with room to flee the falling wall may do so by making successful Reflex saves. Any Large or smaller creature that fails takes 10d6 points of damage.
Ltheb Liadon 08-31-06, 03:48 AM	I do agree, the Ethereal-Labotomy tactic is pretty cheesy, just go ethereal and bring some swords with you. Walk into dragons skull, hold out swords, let go. Called shots being phased out is a good thing :). (Also any good DM would require many ranks in Heal for a PC to know something that complex, science wise, about the brain) I do however think the Sunder/Armor tactic works, however since Armor has alot of HP, (Sometimes manifold that of the wearer) it is generally better to attack the person IN the armor. Heres Mine: 13. - (Reason not to give out the Staff of the Magi) Wizard uses the Staff of the Magi to recharge itself, using the free 0 charge powers to put their spell level worth of charges (1 in the case of Mage Armor) back into the staff. It can be drained to 0 charges, then filled back up to 25 every day, so the character allways knows how many are left. Becomes a good siege weapon if given a Ballista head. (Countered by not giving it out in the first place, or changing it up and making it explode randomly or some other unpredicatble variable) 14. - Any logically inescapable death scenario brought about by the PCs and Scry. EX: PCs see evil drow assassins underground comming to kill them, so they teleport above the drow on the surface, cast Levitate, and Earthquake. Yes, it never says the drow automatically die, but common. In caves. During an Earthquake, and if they crawl out, they get Destruction spammed against them. (I sure do have nice players :)) (Countered by having it be a mislead-type effect, luring the PCs into a trap where 5 drow archamages, or whatever, stand ready with Meteorswarm)
Gyrofthewastes 08-31-06, 05:50 AM	Could two wizards ride each others disks? I remeber seeing that question asked somewhere but can't remeber what was the ruling on that. I don't think so, since the disc follows. *grrrr* But I do believe it is legal to use the Share Spells familiar ability to ride behind a flying familiar...at a height of approximately three feet above the ground.
WagnerSika 09-01-06, 03:18 AM	I know I have already commented this one. I was wrong to assume that he would take the same 20d6 damage. He should take 3d6 falling damage though (neglible on this level). 10: (This one needs a full explanation) The party druid wildshapes into a hawk, flies 30 feet in the air over an enemy, then wildshapes again into a 60,000 pound elder earth elemental and lands on them. Not only did I have to roll 20d6 (Would have been 303d6, but it caps out at 20d6) which is a chore in itself, but I also had to throw together rulings on being crushed by an object of immense weight! This tactic is a bit questionable as the falling elder elemental is not an object per se but a creature. I am not saying you made a bad call, I probably would have done something similar. It just feels that it makes it a bit too easy to give 20d6 damage with no save especially as the druid can do this in every encounter. It may seem realistic to treat falling creatures as objects but why would any big flying creature use conventional attacks ever again because they can just drop themselves on people to cause massive amounts of damage in exchange for a few (avg. 12) points of damage. And do it over and over again. I don't see many parties being able to withstand 20d6 damage every round for very long. It would allevieate the problem a bit if the falling creature would have to roll a to hit or the victims got a reflex save, auto-succes attacks that deal that kind of damage are not usually a good idea. I just remebered that dragons have the Crush(Ex) ability that you could adapt to this situation. Crush (Ex) This special attack allows a flying or jumping dragon of at least Huge size to land on opponents as a standard action, using its whole body to crush them. Crush attacks are effective only against opponents three or more size categories smaller than the dragon (though it can attempt normal overrun or grapple attacks against larger opponents). A crush attack affects as many creatures as can fit under the dragon’s body. Creatures in the affected area must succeed on a Reflex save (DC equal to that of the dragon’s breath weapon) or be pinned, automatically taking bludgeoning damage during the next round unless the dragon moves off them. If the dragon chooses to maintain the pin, treat it as a normal grapple attack. Pinned opponents take damage from the crush each round if they don’t escape. A crush attack deals the indicated damage plus 1½ times the dragon’s Strength bonus (round down). Huge 2d8 Gargantuan 4d6 Colossal 4d8 Note that smaller than huge sized dragons do not have crush attack at all.
Cifer 09-01-06, 08:14 AM	Falling elementals is quite easily resolved by application of physical laws: Actio et Reactio. Also known as: The enemy below the elemental will get squished, but so will the elemental. (and yeah, I like the idea of being able to squish the tarrasque with its own weight...)
gameld 09-01-06, 11:25 AM	15. star wars campaign. pcs like to use explosives. need to use holonet communications device (rarity in rebellion era). requires whole building for device. pcs steal building using explosives to blow it off its foundations and a ship with winches to lift it. they fly away to give their (pirate) boss a new holonet tranciever.
Kimokeo 09-01-06, 11:48 AM	I checked the DMG and the Hand of the Mage is not automatically a standard action to activate. In fact, that is not the absolute rule for all items. DMG Pg 213 Use Activated: third paragraph: If the use of the item takes time (like drinking a potion), then use activiation is a standard action. This is not the case with "Hand of the Mage". This is 'at will' which takes no action. It is a thought to activate. What will take time is the propelling of the disarmed item. The spell states it is a MOVE action to propel something 15' in any direction. I believe the DMG supports the Disarm attack, succeed, weapon drops to the ground, use Hand of the Mage free action to activate and Move action to propel the weapon in 15', any direction desired.
orionm42 09-01-06, 12:31 PM	10: (This one needs a full explanation) The party druid wildshapes into a hawk, flies 30 feet in the air over an enemy, then wildshapes again into a 60,000 pound elder earth elemental and lands on them. Not only did I have to roll 20d6 (Would have been 303d6, but it caps out at 20d6) which is a chore in itself, but I also had to throw together rulings on being crushed by an object of immense weight! This is not a valid tactic unless the druid is epic.... First, an elder elemental is a huge creature. A druid can't wild shape into a huge elemental until 20th level. Second... The new form’s Hit Dice can’t exceed the character’s druid level. An elder earth elemental has 24 HD. As such, the druid could not wild shape into one until 24th level. At that level...who cares about a measly 20d6 (or the crush damage posted above)?
Moon-Lancer 09-01-06, 01:15 PM	yeah, fire seeds? not sure of number a warforged that thinks his slame attack can bust pure rock if he takes adamantine body feat.
Archmage Atrus 09-01-06, 03:32 PM	This is not the case with "Hand of the Mage". This is 'at will' which takes no action. It is a thought to activate. What will take time is the propelling of the disarmed item. The spell states it is a MOVE action to propel something 15' in any direction. When will you idiots get it?! AT WILL DOES NOT MEAN A SWIFT/IMMEDIATE ACTION!!! "At will", the game term, means that a person can do so however many times a day they desire. Contrast this to 3/day, 10/day, 1/week, 1/year. It's a measure of quantity, not ability. If the designers meant for the activation of Hand of the MAge to be a free action - guess what? They have a term for that. It's called: FREE ACTION Alternatively: swift action (not part of the ruleset as of the writing of the DMG), immediate action (same problem as above). You want an item that can be activated as a free action? Boots of Speed As a free action, the wearer can click her boot heels together, enabling her to act as though affected by a haste spell for up to 10 rounds each day. The duration of the haste effect need not be consecutive rounds. (Emphasis mine.) Nowhere in the description of the Hand of the Mage does it go anywhere near mentioning "free action." It does not, in fact, mention any type of action required to activate. Therefore, we are forced to turn to: Unless stated otherwise, activating a use-activated magic item is ... a standard action ... and does not provoke attacks of opportunity, unless the use involves performing an action that provokes an attack of opportunity in itself. If the use of the item takes time before a magical effect occurs, then use activation is a standard action. (Some extra tidbits removed for clarity.) Thus: It is a standard action.
Kimokeo 09-01-06, 03:58 PM	AA: Why do you delete this: "Unless stated otherwise, activating a use-activated magic item is either a standard action or not an action at all..." You deleted the 'or not an action at all. That was rather convenient for your argument. Then your second part you delete again "such as drinking a potion or putting on or taking off a ring or hat". Again, for your argument, you have to leave it out. The ring of invisibility and telekinesis are specific - by activating...by command. The Hand specifically states 'use at will'. Let's go to the DMG and you can read the forward to it pg 213 "...although this activation sometimes requires a command word, usually it means mentally willing activation to happen. The description of an item states whether a commadn word is needed in such a case. Hand has no command word. It is activated at will. It is a worn object. No where does it state you have to hold it in the air and wave it. It's like the Pearl of Power - on your person. However, the Pearl requires Command to activate. That is not what the Hand states. I say Free Action since it is mentally exercised. Heck, I can't imagine why they figure a command word is a standard action when speech is considered a Free Action. Perhaps a command word is followed by the item humming as it warms up like a photocopy machine. A simple word activation doesn't make sense to be a standard action based on the PHB pg141 table 8-2
Archmage Atrus 09-01-06, 04:16 PM	AA: Why do you delete this: As I said: FOR SIMPLICITY. Apparently, that concept is alien to you. I have no idea where you're getting your ring and hat analogy. The only things I ommitted in my quote are ommitted by elipsis, because they do not pertain to my argument at all. You want the whole paragraph? Fine. Unless stated otherwise, activating a use-activated magic item is either a standard action or not an action at all and does not provoke attacks of opportunity, unless the use involves performing an action that provokes an attack of opportunity in itself. If the use of the item takes time before a magical effect occurs, then use activation is a standard action. If the item’s activation is subsumed in its use and takes no extra time use activation is not an action at all. The second point is the one that your argument requires fulfilling. How in the Lord's Good Name is wearing the hand of the mage subsumed in the activation of its powers? Wearing a ring activates the ring's powers because you slip the ring on. Wearing the hat activates the hat's powers because you put the hat on. It has nothing to do with command words or thoughts. Look again at the SRD. I will crop the relevant sentence so you can understand: If the use of the item takes time before a magical effect occurs, then use activation is a standard action. Is mage hand not a magical effect? Does the item say that you have a constant mage hand? No. The item specifies: It allows the wearer to utilize the spell mage hand at will. The "at will" portion, as I've covered before, is a reference of the number of times per day that the spell can be activated. In this case, however many times per day the wielder wishes, but it still requires activation. This activation is by standard action.
Judging Eagle 09-01-06, 05:08 PM	No, we didn't prep any Proc from Evil Scrolls; we really should, and in the future I'll always have a few. A constant active item of that type would cost: 2000 * spell lvl * caster lvl = 2k However, the Duration is 1 min/lvl; so the cost of a continuos duration object is x2. So 4k for an item that hedges out mental control. Well, no it doesn't hedge it out, it merely suppresses it. Indefinately. The +2 Deflection AC is useless for my archivist, but a vest of protection from evil would keep my librarian from being mind-ganked. The other party members will probably pay me to make them rings of this however. Cheaper than a +2 Ring (but only vs evil enemies) and constant suppression of mind control effects. I'm going to have to cast Dominate Person on the Warforged JuggerZerker to keep him from killing us in every fight (if we get that far at least)... that won't work... I'm thinking Geas (divine bard might do give me access at spell lvl 4) combined with Mark of Justice (cast twice, one with -6 cha or wis, followed by the changeling rog diplomancing the WF into safeness... plus the 50% chance of not acting as the 2nd Mark of Justice). 16. Letting the Archivist figure out that a standard club + Shillelagh + Spikes lets said Librarian have a +2 weapon that does 2d6 + (caser lvl) + 2 + Str damage; plus increasing the crit range (in this case to 19-20). Letting the Librarian find out that Spikes lasts and hour a level means that the Librarian will always pack a scrol or two of spikes for any upcoming combats. Even without bothering with shillelagh I'm doing 1d6 + 11 19-20/x2 dmg (Clvl 6 + 16 str + 2 Enhancement from spikes). Guess who's going to buy themself an Bronzewood Falchion? Sure, it's a 'weak' weapon, but it will crit quite often doing 2d4 + 11 15-20/x2 damage. Kimokeo : Mage's Hand At will means only that you can cast the spell whenever you want. It's exactly like the Ring of Telekinesis; you can cast Telekinesis whenever you want. However you still have to spend the time to 'cast' or virtually cast the spell. This means that you can't say... use mage hand five times in your round to pull an object 75 feet. If however, your defenition of "at will" makes you believe that Mage hand can be used as much as you want per round (because literally, that's what your description comes down to). Don't you think that by the same defenition having a Ring of Telekinesis wearer able to perform twenty, thirty or even fifty attacks per round with Telekinesis since they can use Telekinesis at Will to be a bit broken and thus, probably not possible? And where would many of the outsiders (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/demon.htm#glabrezu)who can cast certain spells at will. Can they cast stuff like Chaos Hammer 10 or more times per round? Example The Glabrezu can cast: Spell-Like Abilities At will—chaos hammer (DC 19), confusion (DC 19), dispel magic, mirror image, reverse gravity (DC 22), greater teleport (self plus 50 pounds of objects only), unholy blight (DC 19); 1/day—power word stun. Caster level 14th. The save DCs are Charisma-based. So, by your defenition, that demon can cast, Chaos Hammer (as many times as it wants to per round); Confusion (meh, as many times as it wants to per round); Dispel Magic (same as above); Mirror Image; Reverse Gravity; Unholy blight; plus Greater Teleport itself beside a party member is wants to, perform a full-attack action (since hey, those spells are 'at will' so he will have the time to cast them all and get a FA on the party wizard or rogue). Then after that's done, Greater Teleport somewhere else that the party can't do anything to retaliate with. Meaning that any monster with 'at will' abilities will almost always win a fight if they have abilities that can cause damage to other targets. As you can see, your idea, while making 'technica' sense, makes little real sense at all and your opinion is simply based on the fact that you didn't properly check the rules.
Magesmiley 09-01-06, 06:22 PM	14. Casting True Strike in round 1. Using Whip to disarm foe in round 2 and Hand of the Mage as free action to move disarmed weapon (move action to move it 15' in any direction. Round 3 Cast True Strike, Round 4 disarm and move weapon, etc. (Disarm is a challenge between 'to hit' rolls. Mages rarely have shields so, two-hand the whip for the extra +4) This is very effective against characters with very few weapons, especially their favorites. If the weapon is magical, Mage Hand doesn't work AND it obviously reveals the weapon to be magical. * I like this tactic with the uber-fighter with most of his gold spent on one weapon. Rarely have I seen a character with two super-weapons if they're not a TWF type. ->Really effective; needs a lot of spell lsots to cast this and they could be negated, but still useful and unexpected. Extra: Cast grease on disarmed weapon, especially if magical and it couldn't be moved. My suggestion would be to use a monk/sorcerer for this. As the monk would be disarming with an unarmed strike, he ends up holding the weapon afterwards, which is perfect for giving the big nasty weapon to a friendly fighter.
Iver Gearsham 09-01-06, 08:12 PM	People who know falling damage caps out at 20d6 for distance but don't know damage based on weight has no cap just a minimum distance traveled of ten feet requirement to activate. Players who bring house rules from other games (that they may or may not have DMed) and act as if they are RAW. Players who know the rules well who get upset and demand to "Know Why" during game play on someone else's turn to skip out on a bad effect for their Character meta gaming an action to avoid it or negate the effect.