Post/Author/DateTime	Post
zombieoverlord 05-28-07, 04:08 AM	1. The caster must succeed a will save or switch to opposite alignment, or 1d8 alignment if neutral.
Roivas 05-28-07, 04:11 AM	Sorry to sound impertinent, but resurrection is almost needed in a game with as many save-or-die effects. D&D is a combat heavy death filled affair that has few methods of redemption. But the players can if nothing else, fall back on being brought back from the dead. If you don't want it in your game just disbar it. Or was the point of this thread meant to be humorous?
navar100 05-28-07, 04:25 AM	2. Don't kill a PC. :P
Noon 05-28-07, 04:43 AM	3. Players give ten bucks if they get raised (toward buying the next supplement/pizza/donation to charity). Yes, real money! For a really gamist angle, if you want it, those who don't die get the money divided between them.
Ack 05-28-07, 04:52 AM	The GM in my game has brought in a new angle; magic dependency. Essentially, characters that take too much magical healing start depending on it, and they lose 1 HP per day (cumulative) until they either make the 'cold turkey' save after a week or have to take more magical healing to avoid dying. Fortunately, my character (who has had a fair bit of magical healing, and is getting close to the threshold) has a Fort save of +12 vs that; the highest save required so far is DC 22 (it has to be, to give other PCs a chance to make it). Essentially, my character's going to breeze it :D
OneWinged4ngel 05-28-07, 06:22 AM	To name a few off the top of my head... 4) Resurrection is rarely available from NPCs, and if it does it requires a bit more than simply a diamond or a handful of cash. Clerics rarely offer their services for money unless corrupt (and few are powerful enough to cast such a spell), mercantile houses and nobles have their favors and deals 5) The plane of the dead becomes remote or otherwise detached from the material for a certain period, during which resurrection is not possible short of actually venturing into the plane of the dead and dragging the soul out yourself. 6) A vigilant extraplanar entity strikes fear into all who would dare to defy death through resurrection (Marut, for example) 7) The person resurrecting, not the person resurrected, loses a level, as he gives a bit of his soul to complete the broken one or whatever fluff you want. (If you want to really be harsh, both lose a level) 8) Resurrection requires a more exotic component than a mere diamond, one of such rarity that retrieving it would likely entail a quest in its own right. For example, (a classic) the down of a phoenix could bring about resurrection, but convincing the phoenix to give up its warm, fiery downy feathers may be a tad difficult. 9) Resurrection requires the macabre sacrifice of other living souls, and is probably considered a dark art. 10) A bit of an elaboration on the last... To go with the Fire Emblem style, not all souls are created equal: It will take an obscene amount of low level individuals to resurrect a high level individual (an exponential level values curve is more appropriate in this case, IMO) 11) Alternatively (or perhaps additionally) the sacrificed must be of the same bloodline as the resurrectee, or of similar alignment and qualities, or perhaps it requires the heart of he who slew the dead. In this case, the sacrifice requires someone that shares some manner of similarities with the resurrected. 12) Resurrection requires a newly reconstructed or new host body if the original body is not available. 13) Resurrection must be performed at some special location of power, which just happens to be less convenient than the inn across the way. 14) Resurrection is only possible with the blessing/consent of the one who slew the dead person in question, or some other individual with special significance. 15) The cleric's god is unwilling to grant such a great boon lightly, and will only revive one who has proven himself to the faith. Fairly easily adapted to other sorts of casters. 16) The cleric's god is unwilling to grant such a great boon lightly, and requires some quest to prove the cleric's worthiness. 17) Resurrection is a ritual that requires multiple individuals capable of casting the spell. As such, it requires a congregation of powerful figures, which has obvious problems in implementation. 18) Resurrection has a more limited time window. 19) You must incite the soul to return before casting resurrection by enraging it with an act so offensive to it that he is jaunted from the dreary melancholy of the afterlife. 20) You must incite the soul to return by making an offerring of something the one to be resurrected greatly desired. 21) Resurrection requires the construction of an eldritch machine. 22) Resurrection is an artifact spell (Described in Secrets of Xen'drik), that must first be discovered in order to be used (it is some sort of lost or exotic magic)... and even then can only be used once in a year. 23) Resurrection requires a strong spiritual bond between the caster and the deceased in life (no real trouble for adventuring parties, but stops many NPCs) 24) Casting rites include such things as ritual scarification and self-mutilation (follows with many forms of shamanism and such) 25) The realm of the dead changes a man, and the resurrected returns with some form of altered personality (or perhaps insanity) 26) If reincarnation exists in the setting... a soul has been reincarnated, and the newborn must be located and slain (or somehow have the soul drawn out) before the resurrection can be done. 27) Twist on 26. The soul has yet to be reincarnated, but the soul has been partially "wiped" in preparation for reincarnation. The resurrected character lacks the memories of the life you knew him in. 28) The cleric must strike a deal with the keeper of souls, who uses his horde as a manner of leverage to attain what he wants from mortals (or whatever being/motive seems appropriate for your game). In this sense, the cleric has no real power, but serves as a supernatural negotiator. 29) Weapons such as a "Keeper's Dagger" or other "soublinding so you can't resurrect" items are cheaper and more widely available. 30) Resurrection is an exhaustive ritual that leaves the caster somehow drained and vulnerable. 31) Variant on 5: Resurrection may only be performed in a manifest zone of the plane of the deceased. 32) Variant on 5: Resurrection may only be performed when the plane of the deceased is coterminous or otherwise having a prominent effect on the plane the caster resides on. 33) Resurrection may only be performed at a certain time of year or specific event (such as "during the Festival of Lights" or "when the stars align") 34) Magic is addictive in one way or another, either as a compulsion to cast or a compuslion to experience it. Either way is costly with Resurrection. 35) Negative energy heals you after you are resurrected, and positive energy harms you. You basically just acquired Tomb Tainted Soul, but didn't have a choice in the matter and probably are going to hurt from it instead of benefitting. You may be troubled by a resemblance to less perfectly resurrected undead, and the effects that has on your interactions with society. To make it more of a penalty, perhaps negative effects that affect undead can also affect the player. 36) The ghost of the deceased must first be summoned (or located) and pacified before resurrection can take place.
Splendide 05-28-07, 07:36 AM	37) I left my spell component pouch in El Segundo
Ecalsneerg 05-28-07, 08:31 AM	38) Only allow reincarnation spells. "Mwahahaha, beware my Half-Orc strength!" *Dies* *Reincarnate* "Mwahahaha, beware my Kobold strength!"
Otto the Bugbear 05-28-07, 10:53 AM	I make a few changes... Casting time is 1 hour / HD of the individual to be resurrected. You must have one individual / HD of the creature to be raised participating in the ritual. 15th level bard needs resurrected? You need the caster plus 14 others to do the chanting, burning incense, sprinkling of holy water, or whatever, for the entire time of the casting. Material cost is still 10000 gp diamond (or other item worth 10000 gp, as I do with all material components) The spell has a XP cost for both the caster and the dead character: Caster pays 100 XP per HD of the dead character, Dead character pays 500 XP per HD. (This replaces the standard level loss, though the loss of XP could still result in a lost level.) ------- Oh, and great list there, OW4!
Sigmaticus 05-28-07, 11:49 AM	39: In order to resurect you must first attain seven magical spheres, when brought together they summon a dragon to grant your request. Then afterwards the spheres scatter and cannot be used for another year... Sounds familiar somehow :rolleyes:
ravenshrike 05-28-07, 11:54 AM	Everytime someone is ressurected, a demon/devil of 1.25 times their ECL before death appears on the material plane.
Leo 05-28-07, 03:03 PM	Only major cities have diamonds worth enough money for the ritual. And you need to get very friendly with the local merchant's guild and authority, since diamonds are rare and much prized as the main component of the infamous ressurecting spell. Thus, anyone wanting to buy 5000 gp of diamonds at once most surely wants to ressurect someone, thus you need to ejustify yourself to the authorities that you're not some evil cult that intends to get some criminal back fom the dead, or bribe/blackmail someone. And they'll still ask you to do some quest in order to gain their trust. I had a Dm who created a blackmarket wich contained most of the exotic materials and items, wich were unavailabe everywhere else In order to buy/sell in the black market you had first to find it and then to make quests for the thief's guild in order to gain their trust. Made that much more exciting going shopping.
Lina_Inverse 05-28-07, 04:55 PM	I see you all hate your players. That or you want to see a new character every session. Which still might qualify as the above if your players don't obviously make new character ideas.
Nobunaga Oda 05-28-07, 05:11 PM	Well...That or adpat the game a little. Remove "save or die" spells. Face it, death is something pretty "big" isnīt it? Itīs say that death always brings changes, and that should aply for the game as well. Cīmon, one of the Paladins best friends was killed by his archnemesis. Things are getting personal, the character will still be good, but more of a loner. The conflit of avenging himself but acting just like his archnemesis...Thatīs quality RP I tell you.
OneWinged4ngel 05-28-07, 05:33 PM	I see you all hate your players. That or you want to see a new character every session. Which still might qualify as the above if your players don't obviously make new character ideas. Oh yes, we HATE our characters just as much as every DM who plays a game that's just as lethal (or moreso) than D&D and has no resurrection, OR it is extremely difficult. Because everyone who plays L5R or something must totally hate their players. :rolleyes: Believe it or not, there's a lot of PnPs like that which are much less forgiving than D&D. And truly, doing something more interesting than "I spend the money and cast the resurrection" is going to make the game way less fun. I mean, what kind of game where the players would seek out the gates of the underworld and drag the deceased's soul straight out of the arms of the Keeper could possibly be fun? Or a game where a personal sacrifice is truly meaningful even at high levels? Nah, only a DM who hates his players would do something like that. That's why they made that scenario a reality in Eberron; those designers clearly all hate their players and want to kill them. ...Yeeeeaaaah, you're full of it. Oh, and great list there, OW4! Thanks. If you want, I could post a few dozen more.
igotsmeakabob!! 05-29-07, 02:57 AM	40. The casting of a Resurrection-type spell takes several hours. The act of pulling a soul from the nether attracts all undead in a large area to the site, attacking the resurrecter. The rest of the party must fend off the undead while the caster concentrates on the spell.
OneWinged4ngel 05-29-07, 03:02 AM	40. The casting of a Resurrection-type spell takes several hours. The act of pulling a soul from the nether attracts all undead in a large area to the site, attacking the resurrecter. The rest of the party must fend off the undead while the caster concentrates on the spell. 41. A bit of a variant on this. Resurrection is something like a form of "perfect animate dead," where the person returns to life in true flesh instead of some manner of undead creature, be it a zombie (one of the least perfect forms) to a vampire (a greater form). All such spells draw a bit of a person's soul to fuel the animation, and undead are attracted to oppurtunities to become more "complete." In this case, the calling of a nigh-complete (save for the amount chopped off by the XP penalty) soul which is free during the casting time before it is bound again to this world. Undead seek to kill the cleric and steal the soul as a matter of instinctive hunger, and in the process become more "perfectly," or at least potently, resurrected. Whether this results in them finally being able to resume original form or simply maxxing out at some powerful form of undead due to the amalgamous nature of the variety of souls is up to you ;) *note: A few of these are essentially just more detailed and specific examples of the very broad suggestions I gave earlier* 42. The power of true love is necessary for the Resurrection spell to be used. Either the caster must harbor such a love for the deceased, or participate in the ritual, or give something of themself. 43. Alternatively, it is the other way around. The deceased must harbor true love for the participant. 44. The resurrected must for some reason have become a ghost or other spirit wandering the world, instead of merely dying peacefully, in order to be resurrected. In essence, the soul must have some sort of strong tie to the world or "unfinished business" of the sort that would create a ghost. 45. As 44, but throw out the undead part. You simply need the "strong unfinished business, such as the type that would bond a ghost to the world." 46. Something of the opposite of a common variant, a soul can only be resurrected a significantly *long* time after death. A setting in which this might be the case might be, for example, one where the soul endures a long journey to the afterlife or stays in limbo between fates or something, and can only be resurrected after he has arrived at his "final destination." This can be tricky, as by this time many souls may have become accepting and less inclined to be willing to return. 47. The plane of the dead in the setting functions something like Eberron's (which is Dolurrh). Souls become increasingly apathetic, and gradually lose the will to do ANYTHING. Essentially, a soul will not be able to meet the "willing soul" part of the spell criterion in many cases. 48. Resurrection destabilizes some inherent variable in the universe, and causes some sort of instability. Realizing this, watchful guardians exist to prevent such things, such as a secret cabal that keeps the knowledge of resurrection secret and kills those who would use the forbidden arts, or the good ol' fashioned Maruts. 49. (instance of 48) For example: A great wheel of reincarnation drives the existence of mortal life in the universe. When a person dies, the soul goes to the plane of the dead, the soul resides in the realm of the dead for a time and is "cleaned" of its past life, and then the soul reincarnates as a new life. In this process, the number of available souls remains fixed, or if there is an increase, it comes in a balanced way arranged by the gods or the nature of the universe or whatever. Known magic cannot shake a soul free of this circle of reincarnation once it is set down the path of death. However, a sort of evocation can create a new "artificial" soul and "copy" the experiences of one left to the afterlife as it sheds its memories, and embed this in a body, essentially "reviving" a seemingly identical person. However, this creates a new soul, and unbalances the set number in the universe, which is dangerous. Just a few more I came up with on the spot... hope its useful or inspiring to someone.
Kaldric 05-29-07, 03:07 AM	46. The deceased party must make a will save to be resurrected. The DC is dependent on the situation. Base DC 20 (scale with how difficult you want it to be) +10 DC if the soul is in a "good" afterlife -10 DC if the soul is in a "bad" afterlife +5 DC for each age category beyond the first (the longer you've lived, the more you think you deserve a rest) -5 DC if the character knows that his loved ones are in immediate danger that he may alleviate The DCs are just spitballing.
Derren S. 05-29-07, 03:39 AM	Ever thought that instead of changeing the spells (in some cases with some rather strange things) you could change the game world to achieve what you want? For example considering the high value of diamonds as spellcasting components the kingdomes and various power organizations aggressivly took controll of all known diamonds deposits and hoards them for themself even going so far to hunt down pwoplw who mine or otherwise aquire diamonds and they made a deal with the lord of earth elementals (whoever that is) so that the elementals attack anyone who wants to mine diamonds on the plane of earth. That way getting ressurection is very hard because there is a shortage of diamonds.
OneWinged4ngel 05-29-07, 03:53 AM	Ever thought that instead of changeing the spells (in some cases with some rather strange things) you could change the game world to achieve what you want? For example considering the high value of diamonds as spellcasting components the kingdomes and various power organizations aggressivly took controll of all known diamonds deposits and hoards them for themself even going so far to hunt down pwoplw who mine or otherwise aquire diamonds and they made a deal with the lord of earth elementals (whoever that is) so that the elementals attack anyone who wants to mine diamonds on the plane of earth. That way getting ressurection is very hard because there is a shortage of diamonds. Of course, that actually falls under the category of "making a rarer material component." That whole idea of the campaign setting change without altering the mechanics is debunked as soon as you actually say "Yeah, it's rare indeed... so rare it costs 10,000gp (which is a few hundred pounds of gold in coin form)" on the black market / bribe a noble / wherever you get it. If the mechanics are the same, it costs 10,000 gp ;) If you are changing it to be significantly more expensive than that, you are essentially changing the spell. The idea of hoarding for resurrection, however, is quite viable (and a rather straightforward and realistic assumption at that. Who wouldn't want to hoard insurance against death?)
igotsmeakabob!! 05-30-07, 12:49 AM	Besides, in complicating the resurrection-type spells you add more fun adventuring for the price of... well, really, nothing.
Charybdis 05-30-07, 02:55 AM	Resurrection should always be a big deal (even moreso for True Resurrection). RAW, the Resurrected PC Loses a level. I've yet to meet a PC who's happy with that. RAW, 10,000gp of Holywater and Diamonds (and unless you have an fire truck full of holy water, it's mostly diamonds), is going to seriously cut into the wealth of a party. In a FR campaign we've been running for 2+ years (now about 14th level PC's), there have only been about 6 PC deaths, The lessons learned from these have sent the PC's in search of items of death ward, pledging allegience to the God of the Dead (Kelemvor), and generally made them think before they act. If PC Death is such a common issue in your campaign, maybe you need to tone it down a bit and make threats challenging, but not outright deadly all the time. Fudge the rules a bit without them knowing. This isn't Unreal Tournament or World of Warcraft A) The DM can cheat when they feel it's justified B) The aim of the game is to have fun. Not slaughter your PC's everytime they make a bad call.
Derren S. 05-30-07, 04:35 AM	) If you are changing it to be significantly more expensive than that, you are essentially changing the spell. The idea of hording for resurrection, however, is quite viable (and a rather straightforward and realistic assumption at that. Who wouldn't want to hoard insurance against death?) You should reread what I wrote. I did not say to make the components more expensive but harder to get (you know, roleplaying and stuff). A black market (if it exists at all) does not have always everything availiable all the time or does even want to deal with certain kinds of people.
OneWinged4ngel 05-30-07, 04:44 AM	You should reread what I wrote. Sure thing. *reads* Hey, look, it says the exact same thing it did last time. And I have the exact same response, because I got it the first time. You just didn't get the answer. I did not say to make the components more expensive but harder to get (you know, roleplaying and stuff). Huh, that looks like it's exactly the idea I was replying to, wonder why you felt a need to "clarify"... A black market (if it exists at all) does not have always everything availiable all the time or does even want to deal with certain kinds of people. I did read that. First, the black market was one of multiple examples I gave. Second, what you're failing to understand is that the cost is essentially based on how hard to get it is. Things are priced by supply and demand unless you have some sort of control economy where diamonds are artificially priced. Essentially, the same resources are expended as the rules remain the same. A high price such as 10,000 generally *assumes* that you use either great rarity or great demand or both (or some sort of control economy where prices are artificially raised). Essentially, difficulty of attaining the material component is implicated in the pricing (it seems to me like you're just saying "don't use magic mart," --which is actually the weird way to do it-- even though no one had actually mentioned a "magic mart" type of situation) You're saying that you're creating circumstances where the diamonds are controlled in a way so that you would have to pay a significantly higher *cost* (be it in gp or some other form of exchange) than normal in order to attain them. If you are changing the cost, you are essentially placing a restriction on the spell itself by altering the worth of the material component. Pretty straightforward. In any case, it's arguing semantics and I probably shouldn't have brought it up, since it's nitpicking. It just seemed strange that you would present your idea in such a hostile manner ("Ever think that you should"... as if the rest of us were stupid and ignorant) when a) It's actually changing the value of the spell's material component, and thus placing a restriction on the spell itself. and... b) It's a solution that was already mentioned before in the thread, if you had bothered to read it. and... c) We had already mentioned several ways that put no restriction on the spell itself, but instead merely on the game world (such as "Maruts may attack you if you use Resurrection.") before your seemingly insulting post. (though, of course, as it is typed and not spoken, the tone could be entirely assumed on my part, even if I'm usually quite good at picking up on such things) Kinda makes your "ever thought that you should..." question seem a bit redundant and unnecessary since the obvious answer is "yeah, sure did."
Zandilar 05-30-07, 08:27 AM	Heya, I think the Raise/Resurrect spells are perfectly balanced(/limited) the way they are. 5,000-25,000gp worth of diamonds shouldn't be that easy to come by. Loosing a whole level or a point of con is also nothing to sneeze about, I'm sure some players would rather reroll. (Though this not the case with True Resurrection - but what do you want? It's a 9th level spell, requires at least 17 levels of cleric to cast! 17th level clerics don't grow on trees, you know?). If you're going to kick the Raise/Resurrect spells by the wayside, you need to do the same or similar to Reincarnate, Limited Wish, Wish, and Miracle... And you'll need to think about how to limit or eliminate save-or-die spells. There is a reason these spells exist.
jimpaladin 05-30-07, 08:58 AM	Of course I like it my way:D The cleric who casts the spell gets to go to the plane the dead is on. So you need to know that "bob" is on plane X and for more enjoyment, if the cleric is not of the same bent(IMC cleric of god worshipped by "bob") then there will be problems as you have a being of a different "religon" on your home plane. Can be anything from removal from plane in question to debate about "religon" to death on that plane. Makes it more enjoyable also if "bob" never claimed a god. Then you must cast auguries and what not to find out where "bob" is at.
Millennium 05-30-07, 10:14 AM	Make it part of the story: resurrection magic is starting to fail, and the PCs are tasked with finding out why (and fixing it if possible). NOTE: If you do this, it is probably not a good idea for the PCs to first learn about the problem when their own resurrections fail. Let them find out from churches in the area who are failing to resurrect other people.
wonlee76 05-30-07, 10:25 AM	Use the old 2nd edition rule. -1 Con for each Raise/Ress/True Ress on top of the normal penalties for raise/ress.
ravenshrike 05-30-07, 04:07 PM	Everytime someone is ressurected, a demon/devil of 1.25 times their ECL before death appears on the material plane. Quoting myself, one can add spice to this by having the resurrecting cleric, unless evil, forcing the PCs to hunt down said demon/devil. Andthe higher the PCs are in power, the worse their task gets.
zombieoverlord 05-30-07, 09:28 PM	Resurrection should always be a big deal (even moreso for True Resurrection). RAW, the Resurrected PC Loses a level. I've yet to meet a PC who's happy with that. RAW, 10,000gp of Holywater and Diamonds (and unless you have an fire truck full of holy water, it's mostly diamonds), is going to seriously cut into the wealth of a party. In a FR campaign we've been running for 2+ years (now about 14th level PC's), there have only been about 6 PC deaths, The lessons learned from these have sent the PC's in search of items of death ward, pledging allegience to the God of the Dead (Kelemvor), and generally made them think before they act. If PC Death is such a common issue in your campaign, maybe you need to tone it down a bit and make threats challenging, but not outright deadly all the time. Fudge the rules a bit without them knowing. This isn't Unreal Tournament or World of Warcraft A) The DM can cheat when they feel it's justified B) The aim of the game is to have fun. Not slaughter your PC's everytime they make a bad call. To be clear about where I'm coming from, I want to keep ressurection in the game, but make it more interesting than "buying an extra life".
Charybdis 05-30-07, 09:53 PM	Fair Enough. Looks like good suggestions all round then, especially those lists from OneWinged4ngel. For me though, the players wincing in pain whenever the thought of handing over diamonds to the value of 10k crops up, when they need the funds for the army they're building... that's interesting enough in my campaign. One idea that I don't think has cropped up yet, and no idea what number we're up to: - What if the wrong soul gets brought back into the body? eg two Clerics in the world perform a resurrect at the same time, and the wires get crossed....could make for an interesting little adventure (and creep the PC's out talking to the wrong person wearing their companion's body like a shapeshifter).
OneWinged4ngel 05-30-07, 10:40 PM	Fair Enough. Looks like good suggestions all round then, especially those lists from OneWinged4ngel. Just for that, I'll throw a few more out there :D *note: A few of these are essentially just more detailed and specific examples of the very broad suggestions I gave earlier* 50) You actually have to "buy an extra life"... from the Keeper of the Dead himself. However, there are few things for which he will bargain, and he is shrewd indeed... 51) Resurrection can only be performed on a certain plane. 52) Resurrection is impossible (or more difficult) if you die in certain areas (such as the Jagds in Final Fantasy Tactics Advance) 53) The nature of resurrection is different in every plane, and a different challenge is nescessary. 54) Alternatively, the method of resurrecting a soul varies on the plane the soul goes to for its afterlife, in settings where there are seperate afterlifes. 55) Each soul has a "guardian spirit" of some sort, who must be located and dealt with before resurrection can occur. 56) For an example of 55... a demon is created when a person is slain, and this demon is personally responsible for holding the person's soul dormant in the afterlife and watching over it. In effect, he negates resurrection spells, and must be located and slain before the soul can be freed of its bonds of death. The power of this guardian is proportionate to the strength of the soul, as a greater guardian is required to create a greater soul in check (or the greater soul energy spawns a greater demon, or whatever) 57) The ruling lords or some greedy group in control or whatever prevents resurrection, either by hoarding the necessary resources or restricting it by law for some reason (perhaps a chance of mishap or something similar) 58) Those who enter a cursed/forbidden/whatever land run the risk of dangerous mishaps when resurrection is attempted. 59) People fear what they do not understand: The true nature of resurrection is not fully understood, and strange mishaps are possible, ranging from strange powers, dual souls in the same body, madness, cursed individuals, arcane storms, or wrathful entities. 60) Example of 58 and 59 (Eberron setting) The Xen'drik complications: Anyone who enters this mysterious cursed land runs a risk of enduring various curses, not the least of which being a chance for catastrophic mishaps when resurrecting, such as when that old noble was resurrected and killed dozens of the Jorasco healers with strange lightning before he was put to rest again, or when a horde of maruts descended upon the altar of resurrection to destroy a resurrected adventurer who they referred to as "U'al'sallel." After the catastrophe, research revealed that the name referred to an ancient titan king who died 40,000 years ago. Such instances have led them those in Stormreach to be extremely weary of utilizing resurrection. ____ Also, an obvious choice that should go without saying (though I've learned better than to think that way on these boards :rolleyes: ): Combine a few of the things on the list.
Viseryn 05-30-07, 10:48 PM	61. It takes a circle of clerics with varying alignments and some warring beliefs/deities, that will be hard to bring and hold together 62. It takes an enormous amount of magic power; one casting could put the cleric out of comission for months. 63. Ressurection will send the soul, reincarnated, to a random plane, and the party has to hunt through the planes to find the soul and bring it back to the material plane. (it can't be a plane where they'll instantly die, if you're being nice about it)
doink1212 05-30-07, 10:56 PM	64. Resurrected character comes back with an modified undead template. Adjusted to proper lvl. That'll spice up the fallen paladin. Blackguard here we come.
Zandilar 05-31-07, 08:51 AM	65. Raise Dead and the Resurrection spells don't exist at all. Reincarnate, Limited Wish, Wish, and Miracle are the four spells used to return the dead to life. Reincarnate works as written. Limited Wish works as Raise Dead with the Limited Wish XP cost to the caster. Wish works as True Resurrection with the Wish XP cost to the caster. Miracle works as True Resurrection with the Miracle XP cost to the caster. (I still don't think it's needed, the spells as they are are not just "buy another life"... but meh.)
Ack 05-31-07, 09:01 AM	66. Souls can only be brought back at the exact anniversary (down to the time of day) of their death; doing it at any other time just pulls a random soul out of the 'registry'. The GM can make up any character and slot them into that body. To get rid of them, you have to kill them again (and by the time you realise what's happened, the new soul is likely not to want to die again, and will probably fight back). Oh, and you have to keep the body fresh for the year until you can resurrect the person. And it's a good idea to be as close as possible to the place of death (the exact spot is best) just in case someone else died at the same time. Kinda sucks if the character died from being tortured by the BBEG in the middle of a citadel where many, many people have died (many contenders for the body) and the other characters don't know the exact time or place of death... ... and to make things more tense, have the soul of the PC have to battle it out with other souls, using spiritual versions of their standard equipment, in order to re-inhabit the body :P
Light_Colonel 05-31-07, 10:10 AM	Wow, these restricted Raise/Rez games sure sound fun. (10th level party - heroic Paladin everyone loves, dies) Situation 1: (Rez more expensive) Party Member A (PMA): We should Rez him! Party Member B (PMB): We can't afford it. Remember the DM increased the price so much we cannot do it... PMA: Oh I guess we can afford it if we sell *all* of our items and our fallen friends items. Just in time to fight his evil half-brother! *sighs* -Result- Party wealth much lower; possibly unable to raise. Situation 2: (Rez is evil/etc.) PMA: I wish we could bring him back, but we cannot. PMB: Alas, we will have to fight his evil half-brother without him. PMA: Nothing left for us to do but check his pockets for loose change. I wonder if we will meet a new person to join us? -Result- Party wealth increases exponentially with each character death. Unless of course the new characters come in at lower level or first level, in which case character deaths will increase exponentially as some members of the group are unable to keep up with the rest of the group. Situation 3: (Rez is much harder to get i.e. quest, wait a certain amount of time, etc.) PMA: We have to bring back SirPlayer! He muxst stop his evil half-brother! PMB: Ok, we need only go to the FarAway Mountain, fight the Demon of Resurrection and retrieve the Phoenix Feather! *six months and 4 levels later* PMA: Welcome back SirPlayer! Sorry you are 5 levels below us now. -Result- In the case of lengthy quests and/or adventures to resurrect party members, the dead player is forced to either play an NPC or sit around and do nothing while everyone else has fun. It can also create huge disparities in party level that may never really be fixed. The point of all this is, just leave Rez alone. If you have players needing Raise/Resurrection so often it sounds like your game is too lethal. If your players are coming up with the cash for it too easily, perhaps you need to re-examine the wealth by level guidelines.
OneWinged4ngel 05-31-07, 02:28 PM	Wow, these restricted Raise/Rez games sure sound fun. (10th level party - heroic Paladin everyone loves, dies) Situation 1: (Rez more expensive) Party Member A (PMA): We should Rez him! Party Member B (PMB): We can't afford it. Remember the DM increased the price so much we cannot do it... PMA: Oh I guess we can afford it if we sell *all* of our items and our fallen friends items. Just in time to fight his evil half-brother! *sighs* -Result- Party wealth much lower; possibly unable to raise. Situation 2: (Rez is evil/etc.) PMA: I wish we could bring him back, but we cannot. PMB: Alas, we will have to fight his evil half-brother without him. PMA: Nothing left for us to do but check his pockets for loose change. I wonder if we will meet a new person to join us? -Result- Party wealth increases exponentially with each character death. Unless of course the new characters come in at lower level or first level, in which case character deaths will increase exponentially as some members of the group are unable to keep up with the rest of the group. Situation 3: (Rez is much harder to get i.e. quest, wait a certain amount of time, etc.) PMA: We have to bring back SirPlayer! He muxst stop his evil half-brother! PMB: Ok, we need only go to the FarAway Mountain, fight the Demon of Resurrection and retrieve the Phoenix Feather! *six months and 4 levels later* PMA: Welcome back SirPlayer! Sorry you are 5 levels below us now. -Result- In the case of lengthy quests and/or adventures to resurrect party members, the dead player is forced to either play an NPC or sit around and do nothing while everyone else has fun. It can also create huge disparities in party level that may never really be fixed. The point of all this is, just leave Rez alone. If you have players needing Raise/Resurrection so often it sounds like your game is too lethal. If your players are coming up with the cash for it too easily, perhaps you need to re-examine the wealth by level guidelines. Here's the thing... not even D&D leaves resurrection alone. Look at any published settings. Just looking at Eberron, I see several restrictions on Resurrection. 1) You cannot resurrect when Dolurrh is remote 2) There can be terrible mishaps, such as having a soul go mad or having a group of maruts level a hospital. This is especially true in Xen'drik. 3) Clerics are reluctant to resurrect, and only corrupt ones will sell their services. There are only a few individuals in the world powerful enough to raise the dead, anyways. 4) Even house Jorasco is reluctant to resurrect (because of the repercussions) and only will use this service for especially favored clients. You will have to gain Jorasco's favor to get them to use one of those shiny altars of resurrection. And guess what? I've never seen ANYONE complain about the difficulty of resurrection in Eberron. In fact, people seem to have more fun that way.
danielinthewolvesden 05-31-07, 09:50 PM	Sorry to sound impertinent, but resurrection is almost needed in a game with as many save-or-die effects. D&D is a combat heavy death filled affair that has few methods of redemption. But the players can if nothing else, fall back on being brought back from the dead. If you don't want it in your game just disbar it. Or was the point of this thread meant to be humorous? Yes, what do you suggest to replace it? New PC's? This is bad for two reasons: new PC's coming in all the time spoil campaign continueity. Next, since new PC's have not had the requirement to be designed as they play, they can be FAR more powerful than the continuing characters. Toughness is a possible choice for a 1st level PC, but silly for a 10th. Or are you going to suggest that a player whose PC had "gone for a dirt nap" not be able to play? Just tell me what your suggestions are for replacing Raise Dead, etc, and I will listen to ways to get rid of those spells. But in the meantime, they work, and help keep the game balanced.
wizarddog 05-31-07, 10:04 PM	67. The after life is wonderful. Must use make DC 30 Diplomacy check to convince soul to return to the Material Plane. Various modifiers can be added.;)
Mock26 05-31-07, 10:06 PM	Does ressurection work if the person is only mostly dead? :D
Zankue 05-31-07, 11:07 PM	I see you all hate your players. That or you want to see a new character every session. Which still might qualify as the above if your players don't obviously make new character ideas. you need to revive a character once every session??? sheesh that's kinda crazy, we're lvl 7 in a new campaign and only one has died, we didn't revive him. He lost a limb so he retired and made a new character. HAHA caught post 42 :P
Nathreet 06-01-07, 12:28 AM	50. "He's only mostly dead". Characters almost never truly die, even if they fail a save-or-die, even if they hit -15 HP. Ressurection spells merely awaken players. Dismembered characters need regeneration spells as well. Disintegrate only works on objects. True Ressurection of someone chopped into little bits / burnt into ashes / etc. requires rebuilding a new body a la Frankenstein and then hunting down the soul (either automatic or one of the 49 methods above).
Blue Mage Yui Ikari 06-01-07, 02:47 AM	68. The character and/or allies must make the "case" that the character is important enough to be brought back from the dead in front of some manner of spirital judge/tribunal. (I ran a campaign with these rules, and it worked suprisingly well, with people having to come up with a reason why their character deserved to live. Several people actually realized it made more sense for their characters to remain dead, and it added a bit of flavor to the whole ordeal of resurrection.)
The Zod 06-01-07, 03:59 AM	47. The plane of the dead in the setting functions something like Eberron's (which is Dolurrh). Souls become increasingly apathetic, and gradually lose the will to do ANYTHING. Essentially, a soul will not be able to meet the "willing soul" part of the spell criterion in many cases. I use something similar to this in my campaign. There is a base DC10 will save to be resed +1 for every week spends dead. Then there is some lingering aftereffects like memory loss and apathy mostly miner things that the player gets over quickly. It’s more of a way to keep res interesting. The save is low just so there is the slight chance that they might not come back. The purpose I did this was in the last campaign I played in there was no fear of death it was something that just happened and you got resed and continued on. At one point we were going up ageist assassins welding soul destroying swords, and there was a princess we had to save, one of are back up plans involved killing the princess before the assassins can.
OneWinged4ngel 07-12-07, 04:00 AM	Man, I put forth 50 and this thing still doesn't go to 101? :rolleyes:
Millennium 07-12-07, 09:54 AM	The god of peace has hatched a plan to stop the Blood War by cutting off the flow of souls to the Outer Planes. It has altered the Inner Planes so that every soul that dies is immediately reborn to a new life somewhere in the world. Because souls don't go to the Outer Planes, they no longer fuel the Blood War, which must therefore eventually cease through attrition. The god of peace plans use this to stop war on the Material Plane as well, arguing (rightly) that any enemy soldier you kill could very well be a reincarnation of an ancestor or loved one; in a few generations, in fact, chances are that this will be true. As a side effect of this, resurrection magic stops working because souls no longer pass on to an afterlife. They're reborn, and you can't resurrect someone who isn't dead. Now, to really mess with your players, set a campaign during a point where the process isn't yet complete, and the PCs are sent to stop it. Talk about dilemmas: what do you do when the BBEG turns out to be the god of peace?
Roog 07-12-07, 10:15 AM	(69) Ressurection type spells are limited to particular causes of death (E.g. Ressurection [Poison], Ressurection [Save-or-Die], Ressurection [Drowning], etc.). Not all causes of death may have a ressurection spell (E.g. No Ressurection [Ran out of HP]). Highly unusual causes of death may need new spells researched.
OneWinged4ngel 07-12-07, 01:17 PM	(E.g. No Ressurection [Ran out of HP]) Meh, you can just be immune to that anyways with a 4th level Immediate cleric spell (Delay Death (Spell Compendium): Makes you immune to death by hp damage for 1 round/level, and since it's immediate you can cast it right when somebody would die. (Note, people still go unconscious below 0 hp. They just don't die from the hp damage.) Speaking of which... it is *entirely* possible to provide many alternative means of preventing players from getting offed all the time, and thus reduce the need for things like Resurrection.
Emissary666 07-12-07, 03:25 PM	70) You must force someone to eat the dead body, then cast a ressurection spell to transfer the dead soul into a living host. 71) You become a zombie when you die, which must be killed before being ressurected, which attracts all zombies in a 50-mile radius. 72) Ressurection causes a small portion of the Plane of Souls to implode, eventually the dead will have no place to go 73) All outsiders can possess a corpse, replacing where the soul should be. 74) A little known fact, angels guard the dead, meaning you have to kill something considered the paragon of good to revive your friend. 75) All ressurections revive the dead as infants. 76) You must commit an act of genocide to ressurect someone, to balence the souls. 77) Animate dead spells use the souls of the dead, therefore clerics need to hunt down some zombie, possibly on another plane, and kill it.
aotrscommander 07-14-07, 06:27 PM	Some typically over-long and rambling thoughts (and expanding on several of the earlier suggestions), not necessarily D&D specific (they fall into pretty much my generally unstated universe rules): 78: Raising the dead requries phenominal amount of magical energy. This energy must be supplied by some means, above and beyond the basic spell slot (the spell-energy of which may considered the catalyst for the process only). Proximity to the target (meaning how well the caster knows the target) reduces the amount of energy required, as does the target's 'hero factor' or 'inertia of causality'; both basically meaning the more impact on the world (e.g. level, status, standing which may be non-related factors), the easier it is. E.g. Farmer Joe who Cedric the Almighty has never met would requrie a ridiculous amount, but Thwunk his barbarian mate or Cedric's wife would require significantly less. Otherwise, the energy has to be supplied by some external power source (siginficant effort on the part of a greater power, massive energy reserve with a suitable converter (volcano, drawing power directly from an elemental plane, killing vast numbers of creatures to draw on negative energy caused on their death) or great emotional response1. 79: Raising the dead a vastly complicated affair with serious reprecussions if it All Goes Horribly Wrong, ranging from obliterating the target soul completely or (especially if 78 is in play) providing insufficent power such that the caster uses up his own life(/undeath) energies and is killed himself. As such, fewer clerics are willing to take thr risk of casting it. (Note that this does not have to be represented mechanically - unless the DM wants to roll some dice behind the screen to make his players sweat - it can fall into the 'less than 5% chance and thus residing in the perview of DM discretion.) 1Emotion to energy is apparently just about the holy grail of power sources. It's like, the most efficient power source ever; see any number of incidences when and emotion gives folk more power than before. To paraphrase, "love is the strongest power [source] in the universe2." 2This is, of course, a freakin' lie. Every Aotrs Lich knows that real power comes from SBM: Sheer Bloody-Mindedness. Seriously. We've done studies.
OneWinged4ngel 07-14-07, 08:37 PM	Some typically over-long and rambling thoughts (and expanding on several of the earlier suggestions), not necessarily D&D specific (they fall into pretty much my generally unstated universe rules): 78: Raising the dead requries phenominal amount of magical energy. This energy must be supplied by some means, above and beyond the basic spell slot (the spell-energy of which may considered the catalyst for the process only). Proximity to the target (meaning how well the caster knows the target) reduces the amount of energy required, as does the target's 'hero factor' or 'inertia of causality'; both basically meaning the more impact on the world (e.g. level, status, standing which may be non-related factors), the easier it is. E.g. Farmer Joe who Cedric the Almighty has never met would requrie a ridiculous amount, but Thwunk his barbarian mate or Cedric's wife would require significantly less. Otherwise, the energy has to be supplied by some external power source (siginficant effort on the part of a greater power, massive energy reserve with a suitable converter (volcano, drawing power directly from an elemental plane, killing vast numbers of creatures to draw on negative energy caused on their death) or great emotional response1. 79: Raising the dead a vastly complicated affair with serious reprecussions if it All Goes Horribly Wrong, ranging from obliterating the target soul completely or (especially if 78 is in play) providing insufficent power such that the caster uses up his own life(/undeath) energies and is killed himself. As such, fewer clerics are willing to take thr risk of casting it. (Note that this does not have to be represented mechanically - unless the DM wants to roll some dice behind the screen to make his players sweat - it can fall into the 'less than 5% chance and thus residing in the perview of DM discretion.) 1Emotion to energy is apparently just about the holy grail of power sources. It's like, the most efficient power source ever; see any number of incidences when and emotion gives folk more power than before. To paraphrase, "love is the strongest power [source] in the universe2." 2This is, of course, a freakin' lie. Every Aotrs Lich knows that real power comes from SBM: Sheer Bloody-Mindedness. Seriously. We've done studies. Hahaha... Thwunk was too young to die!
Callista 07-14-07, 11:57 PM	If you're going to kick the Raise/Resurrect spells by the wayside, you need to do the same or similar to Reincarnate, Limited Wish, Wish, and Miracle... And you'll need to think about how to limit or eliminate save-or-die spells. There is a reason these spells exist. Save-or-die spells would instead cause the character to permanently lose a level. A Miracle spell is the only way the level can be restored.
OneWinged4ngel 07-15-07, 03:45 AM	Save-or-die spells would instead cause the character to permanently lose a level. A Miracle spell is the only way the level can be restored. How is THAT a balanced choice? Then everyone would just switch to Save-Or-Lose spells (as opposed to save-or-die). This only hurts the players, but is pretty useless for the players themselves (because it does little for the single combat they'll usually be doing with an enemy)
Cato_the_Elder 07-15-07, 07:59 AM	80. Resurrection is limited to the Cult of the Dead, who guard their (secular) resurrection secrets -very- carefully; this gives them enormous political clout. Other religions want desperately to uncover these secrets so to be able to conduct resurrections of their own (plot-hook!), and so far only two religions have come up with their own variants on the process. One is a resurrection that forces the character to take a five-level prestige class like the Risen Martyr of the BOED; once the character completes her five levels, she dies as the energy sustaining her consumes the body it's carried in. The other is the reincarnation spell of a druidic cult, whose spell works as in the RAW. All of these religions require services, offerings and even conversions to the faith before agreeing to raise a person.
High Octane 07-15-07, 10:34 AM	Does ressurection work if the person is only mostly dead? :D Usually. If they've been mostly dead all day. All dead, well all dead you only have one choice. Search through his pockets and look for loose diamonds.
badsign_98 07-15-07, 04:58 PM	I actually found it's even more fun if the players deal with this for you. I had a player running a cleric of Tyr in a Forgotten Realms campaign and could not bear to see her comrades sacrifice made vain by him being resurected so she burned the body in a Tyrite funeral ritual.
OneWinged4ngel 09-04-07, 01:52 PM	:bump: