Post/Author/DateTime	Post
matrix_king3 07-24-07, 07:00 AM	In my DM life, I played with 3 girls and they all made something special..or stupid in the game. 1.DM : So you are all in the Shop and Tavern district of the great city of Anabilis. The place is made of polish stone making a great circle around a fountain that represent dolphin. Where are you? Girl Paladin : Im in the fountain taking a bath... 2. Girl Human Barbarian : Why do we fighting those orc, maybe they attacked the village to take back their eggs? 3. Girl : So...what elves looks like? Me: You remember Legolas in Lord of the Ring. Played by Orlando Blo.. Girl : IM PLAYING A ELF!!! PS : No sexist joke and comment please. Much DM knows that girls are very original and useful in tacting and roleplaying scene....some times :D
Ace_of_Night 07-24-07, 07:48 AM	3. Girl : So...what elves looks like? Me: You remember Legolas in Lord of the Ring. Played by Orlando Blo.. Girl : IM PLAYING A ELF!!! You have a girl that wants to be like Orlando Bloom?... Most of them just want a relationship with him. You're sure she's alright other than that little problem? ^^
AvalancheRider 07-24-07, 08:05 AM	2. Girl Human Barbarian : Why do we fighting those orc, maybe they attacked the village to take back their eggs?That girl should be a D&D comedian. :D
Grogmir 07-24-07, 08:09 AM	Our girl sits there while the four blokes normally argue about rules, tactics, you gets the last cake, pick our noses, make rude jokes and smell. She’s patient, funny, diplomatic and a low cake eater, plus she smells nice. Girls really our great roleplayers. Grogmir
Einvaldurinn_mikli 07-24-07, 08:12 AM	Played an Elven Druid with a Wolf companion for her first character.
AvalancheRider 07-24-07, 08:14 AM	Our girl sits there while the four blokes normally argue about rules, tactics, you gets the last cake, pick our noses, make rude jokes and smell. She’s patient, funny, diplomatic and a low cake eater, plus she smells nice. Girls really our great roleplayers. GrogmirOh yes, smelling nice is an absolute necessity in a great roleplayer.
hovnarr 07-24-07, 08:25 AM	Oh yes, smelling nice is an absolute necessity in a great roleplayer. It is. I know this from experience - the experience of one rather smelly german exchange student who once sat at my gaming table. Yet another advantage to playing PbP games. Played an Elven Druid with a Wolf companion for her first character. But that's the exact official purpose of the druid class. It's there so your gf will have something to try D&D with. Dontchaknow?
058 07-24-07, 08:31 AM	My sister stabbed a naga in the face with a quarterstaff once.
AvalancheRider 07-24-07, 08:36 AM	It is. I know this from experience - the experience of one rather smelly german exchange student who once sat at my gaming table. Yet another advantage to playing PbP games.Ah, but men can smell nice, too. I always smell nice. :D
obrysii 07-24-07, 08:48 AM	Uh-hum. Let's see here. I've gamed with my best friend a few times. She played a nudist (I think) anthropomorphic rabbit in one game ... who was hyperactive. And in the current game, a Play-by-post game, she's playing a totally insane (literally) cleric who has seen Hell. She's very talented with role playing, and I say that with absolutely no sarcasm.
aotrscommander 07-24-07, 08:51 AM	Oh yes, smelling nice is an absolute necessity in a great roleplayer. Only for the living... The only slight odd things my sister did when she started were more due to her age than gender...She kept asking for white wine spritzers in the taverns. Mind you, she was only about 12 at the time, so...
AvalancheRider 07-24-07, 08:53 AM	Only for the living...See, this is why I only animate skeletons. They don't need to be deodorized.
aotrscommander 07-24-07, 08:56 AM	See, this is why I only animate skeletons. They don't need to be deodorized. Liches don't have a sense of smell. Or not much of one anyway. Still, skeletons are so much cooler than fleshy thingies. I always animate skeletons rather than zombies. (Heck, I am skeletal!) But let's not de-rail the topic too much...!
Ace_of_Night 07-24-07, 09:00 AM	Guys, not to be nagging or anything now, but please bring this to another part of the forum, as this part is about helping DMs who have questions, and this thread is more suitable for a more spammy part :) (Yes yes, call me a hypocrite for posting in here myself before too with a silly answer but I hadn't thought about it up until now >_<)
Grogmir 07-24-07, 09:04 AM	Oh yes, smelling nice is an absolute necessity in a great roleplayer. After a quick vote of the group it was decided her lack of Cake eating ability was the real reason we like gaming with her. Nobody likes a cake thief! :mad: Grogmir.
aikimiller 07-24-07, 10:18 AM	accidently made grabbing motions with both hands at chest level, whilst talking about "pearls of power". yeah, I still don't think she's lived that one down.
Vengeful_Deity 07-24-07, 10:26 AM	My girlfriend's druid complimented a Vampire on its sense of style.
Mathus 07-24-07, 10:34 AM	My girlfriend named her fighter, Conania the Bar-Bare-Ass. I am am making her change her name.
aotrscommander 07-24-07, 10:39 AM	In a sense of fairness, come to that, I should point out that some of the most stupid things that have ever been uttered in our games came from the lads; my (least) favourite being the guy who asked "why is the purple star purple?" Plus my own bar-room faux pax of asking for watered-down ale. (I was at the time about eleven, and to my logical line of reasoning was that it seemed it would be inappropriate for Loudo Musico, being a Half-Elf Bard (on Middle-Earth) to drink ale; wine was clearly out in a pub (I knew that much) and at the time I hadn't heard of mead. Saod Bard ended up being punched out by the party Dwarf (some four levels my senior) after a fracas nearly resulted when the regulars took offense...
Amnuan 07-24-07, 10:50 AM	Last time I played with girls in the group... and this is a true story... They lost interest in the game and started making out with each other. Now before you say... YOU LIE!!! One was my girlfriend, I was very distraught by this and we broke up three days later.
KingCrab 07-24-07, 10:52 AM	Orlando does look a lot like a girl in those movies. I could see women wanting to look like him.
gixanthrax 07-24-07, 11:57 AM	Öhm, the weirdeset thing was, when our female paladin ( played by Nina, a26 year old women) dressed as a ***** to gather information from one of our oponents. After post-coital inerrogation she just said: " I sit myself naked on his face and try to choke him..":eek:
CeilingNinja 07-24-07, 12:03 PM	The only girl I DMed for played a race that I introduced to the game (think a small sized gnoll) and was pretty much the best character in that game. She was powerful and had a pet gryphon that she rode around on. She wielded a battle axe, had straight attack progression, and got 8 attacks a round thanks to her weapon and her gryphon. She also was our chronicle and drew the more interesting events that took place in the game. Now - OP, just to let you know - girls don't have cooties.
RobbyPants 07-24-07, 12:07 PM	In my game? The one female player is actually the one who gets most involved in RP encounters and tends to make the most friends in the game. She also tends to be more empathic towards other's needs, which can be good or bad. Sometimes she figures out when someone's wrongly accused and she's the only one who believes him. Other times, she lets a traitor get too close... Really, I don't think most of this has anything to do with her being female, but more of her personality in general.
JohnJohn 07-24-07, 12:20 PM	Women can be evil... or maybe that should be cruel... you don't expect them to do some of the things they do. One of my female players did something once that still makes me feel dirty to this day... and it was done... 10 years ago in a game. I still feel...dirty... No not dirty like that you pervs. Lets set this up We were playing at a gaming society at a local college that was open to everyone, students and non students and we were all non students. A lot of the people that came there to play were... minmaxers/power gamers and tended to be extremely self absorbed. One of these players kept coming into my campaign and insisting on rolling up yet another drizzit clone. I kept to core rules unless there was a really good reason not to (and I don't think I ever found a reason not to). This player... call him "Bistogelweenie" was on the obnoxious side (the player, he never roleplayed so can't really fault his characters). He also cheated on his dice rolls or at least thats what ALL the players said who sat at his end of the table. He also tended to say obnoxious or offensive things especially towards girls. My female player, we will call her... Juliet. To say bistogelweenie annoyed her is an understatement. About this time frame a lot of gaming companies were putting out new dice. Seriously, dice were coming out in new sizes, colors, clear or opaque you name it. It became something of a competition involving getting new dice and showing them off to the gaming group. There was an obligatory "ooh ahh" rule in that if someone showed a die you hadn't seen before everyone at the table had to go "ooohhh ahhhhhh." People went overboard buying their dice and showing em off. I think dice bags became like symbols as everyone wanted to show off their big dice bags full of dice. People had d100s really a 100 sided die. It was about the size of a tennis ball with 100 little pips on it. The numbers were small, so small I couldn't read em but hey it was a 100 sided die. Someone claimed to have a d16 but I never saw it... I wanted to as I couldn't figure out how you could make a 16 sided die (glue two d8s together nose to nose?). Well Juliet one day showed up weighted d6's. They were rather large and you could feel the weights in them. Surprise, they rolled 6's. They rolled funny as you could see them fighting to turn the 6 side up. No she never used them in the game she just brought them for the ooh ahh thing. Make a long story short bistogelweenie was sitting there being his obnoxious self annoying everyone at his end of the table. He for whatever reason disbelieved something... which turned out to in fact be real. Per the (2nd ed?) rules if you disbelieve something thats real the spell takes maximum possible effect and theres no saving throw. In effect you are daring it to hit you on the chin... and it does. I told em he could roll his own damage since he didn't have a lot of hps and I didn't want him to think I was out to get him. He needed 15d6 so started grabbing peoples dice (without so much as a please). For some reason he grabbed Juliets d6s.. the big weighted ones. It was at this time I remembered he hadn't been in there when she explained them. I started to say something and... couldn't. 2 Players started to say something... and stopped. 9 other players sat around that table and no one said a word... Juliets eyes gleamed evilly as bistogelweenie rolled his damage.... Amazing how many 6's he rolled up. He was shocked. He tried to claim that was a practice roll. 9 other players and me the DM sat there and just couldn't say anything. Inside I was feeling so dirty but the obnoxious twit deserved it. He went on home after I told em we would be wrapping up soon. In fact we played for about 2 more hours. No one mentioned what happened with the dice other then one person asked.. "weren't those your special dice?". Juliet chuckled "yes." I wrapped up my campaign a week or so later. Juliet started one... surprise bistogelweenie didn't survive 3 sessions as Juliet kicked him from her campaign. I don't think anyone ever told him about the dice... I still feel a little dirty even though the twit deserved it. One thing I have noticed in my time of Playing D&D/AD&D/D&D again.. If women don't like someone, then they don't want to play D&D with them, and they either put their foot down (no they aren't playing with us) or they find a way to chase them away.
alchemyprime 07-24-07, 12:29 PM	Considering one of my RP groups is half girls, I have stories... There was the girl who "forgot" to roll up a new character (five campaign btw) and had to play the bard another girl was playing as. (the DM at the time doesn't like the girl who rolled up the bard because she kinda hits on his girlfriend too often, thereby cheating on her own, a good friend of mine. She's been banned from being in that DMs games, and she has no interest in mine due to our arguement over the topic of vampires. I think they suck. And I hate them.) Anyway, the bard died because she listened to my character, a Chaotic Neutral Cleric 3/Rogue 1. He wasn't Chaotic Stupid, but she says he was. It's that he over analyzes things, and the DM threw at us a dungeon "for players level 7 to 9." A prepublished adventure for higher levels than us, because he expected 12 players, not the four. Five including his little sister. Anyway, the bard died, and in the end, we all died because my character lacked "moral fiber" or something. To be fair, I was being CN as I see it should be done. Which is to say, a human version of Bender. The female paladin and the NG female sorceress all agreed with me in looting the bodies and just trying to figure out what to do. In a dungeon where we had to fight a body-switching beholder, fight a god, and destroy a crystal cube (totally forgot to prepare shout), I didn't een think of SAVING the people. But yeah. So, to recap: Bard blamed me for her death. Paladin acted CN AND DIDN'T LOSE HER POWERS! Sorceress... well, she did a pretty good belch, does that count? So yeah. We've made three new rules: 1. It's not the person who made the plan's fault. It's your plan for either listening or yelling "Leroy Jenkins!" and running into battle. 2. Paladins need to act the alignment for thier type of paladin. 3. The other DM must only DM one session for every four I do, because at the most I've had two characters die, and they got reincarnated. He's killed off two whole parties before. However, be warry of reincarnate. All we ever get is half-elves.
matrix_king3 07-24-07, 02:45 PM	Orlando does look a lot like a girl in those movies. I could see women wanting to look like him. LOLLLL
Quade 07-24-07, 03:17 PM	Oh yes, smelling nice is an absolute necessity in a great roleplayer. For everyone too, not just for the girls. Had to ask a guy to leave my campaign because of his BO once.
Tzor 07-24-07, 03:55 PM	I've got a log of things, but since this isn't the mature forum I won't post them here. :P But my favorie was not exactly what she did, but what her character did because what her character was ... a barbarian beast rider who rode a bison! Lots of fun ... did I mention this was a Lankhmar campaign? Never mess with a girl and her bison! She might just get MAD!
aotrscommander 07-24-07, 03:55 PM	I think they [vampires] suck. And I hate them. [Obligatory Aotrs derail]Well said, that entity![/Obligatory Aotrs derail]
Ikyotojin 07-24-07, 04:07 PM	One of my wife's characters carries a wooden spoon and wears an apron. She spent a LOT of money on these items - they are highly magical. She will wack someone with the spoon and they must make a really sick DC to avoid being struck with feelings of guilt to the point they can't function. And the apron makes her harder to hit than the party paladin in his magic full plate with shield! She ONLY uses that character when the characters are acting like idiots. "No one messes with Mom!"
Corpus 07-24-07, 06:28 PM	Girls have breasts and smell like flowers. Unless they don't.
Feredenil 07-24-07, 06:38 PM	Well, i'll just write this little tale of... The Character who replied to a Genie asking 'what is your -one and only- wish, master ?' with 'a bottle' ...The End.
Grand Theft Otto 07-24-07, 06:42 PM	To break stereotypes, I have 4 regular players, 3 of which are female. The one guy is by far the least aggressive. Two of the women, my wife in particular, are downright bloodthirsty at times... and god forbid theres any booze present. The more she drinks, the more her character resembles Belkar polymorphed into a lizardwoman. They also collect a huge freakin menagerie of pets. Currently they have a dire bumbler, a hydra, an earth elemental, a dover child and a shrieker. Last adventure there was a diseased dire bear infected with Zuggtmoy spores that had rotted its eyes, and the thought of somehow getting a blind, incontinent bear back to the city made their eyes glaze over like kids on Christmas.
coker159 07-24-07, 06:58 PM	She plays a Beguiler that is being a pain because of some retarded diplomacy check (35 when she takes 10.).
High Octane 07-24-07, 07:10 PM	I had one that whined like a hurt puppy every time her character took damage and screamed annoyingly "Yay I'm useful" in a triumphant annoying squeal. (To be fair she WAS a bard so the cheering every time she was useful may have been called for) plus she would recoil when things swung her way a little too close and (I am NOT making this up) meow. Seriously, like a cat. She also dated one of the players who she made out with during the game not paying a bit of attention to the game. She then broke up with the player who left the game. I should have kept the guy and kicked the girl, but his character happened to be dead at the time so he decided to leave. That campaign stopped, she never got invited back. It was fun though, she was scared to hell of my friendly black labrador. When she was recoiling in fear calling him an evil dog, I was petting him saying "Good boy."
Erato 07-24-07, 07:26 PM	This topic is made of stupid.
High Octane 07-24-07, 07:28 PM	Liches don't have a sense of smell. Or not much of one anyway. If you are wondering, what you smell like is cabbage flavored beef jerky dipped in chlorine and left out in the sun way too long. But since you are a lich and thus don't eat any of the food or dew, you are welcome at my table.
Voran 07-24-07, 07:36 PM	Not in my game, but I always think back fondly (not) of the way the DM's girlfriend beguiled him and basically got everything she wanted in our college game a decade+ ago.
mcnoo 07-24-07, 07:53 PM	One girl in my ad&d group seems to knock the table over every time she stands up, sits down, moves her miniature or rolls her dice. Slight exageration, but it's like she does't even notice the table is there. Still, it's not as bad as taking her larping and watching her go head over heels over every twig and stone. And supprise supprise, somehow, captain spacial awareness managed to flip her car the other day. (she wasn't injured, so we're allowed to make snide comments)
DaidojiTaidoru 07-24-07, 08:11 PM	I've seen the whole set. From the girlfriend just playing the druid with the wolf to the political mastermind who was manipulating a 30 person game until GM incompetence convinced her subordinates to murder her. One of my personal favorite characters to GM for was run by a girl. Elf Barbarian. Ended up leading the party on a bloody (but very well planned) swath through an entire necromancers guild. Just because she was bored. She later became queen of Los Angeles, but that is a different tale, in a different system.
AvalancheRider 07-24-07, 09:31 PM	He wasn't Chaotic Stupid...To be fair, I was being CN as I see it should be done. Which is to say, a human version of Bender....so...Chaotic Stupid? :P
Volafor 07-24-07, 10:35 PM	Every member of my group is female, including me. We've been playing together for a long time, so I have quite a trove of goodies. Here are a few choice ones my players have done: 1. Requested a pet gelatinous cube, six inches on a side, with a coffee spoon stuck in it, which was to be called "Kennedy." 2. Managed to turn a swarm of minuscule monsters into a lot of minuscule stone statues. 3. Dressed her male character in a beaded skirt and a pair of hose, in order to flirt with a very old elven wizard--just to try and embarrass him.
Malruhn 07-24-07, 11:58 PM	What have GIRLS done in my game? Made me THINK! I'm a guy. I think like a guy. I can project what other guys will thing about and how they will handle problems. Okay, let's set up an adventure - fight the bandits and save the princess. Let's see, they could storm the door, or climb in through the window, or break into the root cellar and go in through the basement door... or maybe just toss a torch and smoke them out. Add a female to the mix, and suddenly they are phasing through walls, digging in under the moat, and flying in from befriended giant eagles and dropping through the roof. Women at the table make me THINK as a DM - and I love it!! They keeps me on me toes, they does!
High Octane 07-24-07, 11:59 PM	...so...Chaotic Stupid? :P Oh no....no...you did NOT just speak ill of Bender. The ninjas are on their way. Yes I know this gives you ample time to pack up and leave, but it won't help. They're ninjas.
AvalancheRider 07-25-07, 12:07 AM	What have GIRLS done in my game? Made me THINK! I'm a guy. I think like a guy. I can project what other guys will thing about and how they will handle problems. Okay, let's set up an adventure - fight the bandits and save the princess. Let's see, they could storm the door, or climb in through the window, or break into the root cellar and go in through the basement door... or maybe just toss a torch and smoke them out. Add a female to the mix, and suddenly they are phasing through walls, digging in under the moat, and flying in from befriended giant eagles and dropping through the roof. Women at the table make me THINK as a DM - and I love it!! They keeps me on me toes, they does!...so...you're a total sexist against your own gender? :rolleyes:
TheAnthroDM 07-25-07, 12:13 AM	I frown heavily upon this threads existence, and wonder how why freedom of speech with fire in a theater but not with sexism under guise. ...so...you're a total sexist against your own gender? :rolleyes: Well, now since you're begging for it. Is what he said sexist? Yeah. Is it true? Probably. Men generally like smooth non-complex black and white plots that don't offend their fragile ego and never have a female BBEG in fear that it makes them look submissive. I could say some bad qualities of women as DnD players but I think the rest of this thread has already made enough non-existent ones to compensate.
Xandria 07-25-07, 12:16 AM	...so...you're a total sexist against your own gender? :rolleyes: That doesn't mean that...I'm the only girl and my group, and usually I'm the only one that keeps people from getting drunk and having their liver stolen from the pretty "woman" over there...Dynamite always fits somewhere in that plan... I don't know the number: I'm was an epic druid, and we were fighting Earth so I pretty much turned and said, "I would like to attack the ground." This was right before I attacked a pain seeker. Pain seeker=PAIN=me exploding That was fun...
Volafor 07-25-07, 12:59 AM	This thread is probably sexist. Yet it doesn't bother me one bit to contribute to it, since anytime I use my group as an example on the boards, I am contributing to this thread, in a manner of speaking. Even before this thread was born, I had contributed to it: subarctic latrines, presents for reaching second level, miniature gelatinous cubes. One might say that this thread has existed in my game for a long time. Go on...just kidding.
KurenaiYami 07-25-07, 01:04 AM	I played with the same girl in a number of games. Most of the time she was fairly run-of-the-mill. The one that struck me as odd was when she made a halfling sorceress...and proceeded to wait tables at the local tavern for the whole session.
AvalancheRider 07-25-07, 01:09 AM	This thread is probably sexist. Yet it doesn't bother me one bit to contribute to it, since anytime I use my group as an example on the boards, I am contributing to this thread, in a manner of speaking. Even before this thread was born, I had contributed to it: subarctic latrines, presents for reaching second level, miniature gelatinous cubes. One might say that this thread has existed in my game for a long time. Go on...just kidding.Well, what's sexist isn't mentioning dumb things that some specific person did that may have been a result of gender, it's stating that "only gender A is good at roleplaying" or "all chicks just wanna be elves." There hasn't really been much of that on this thread, but I object to what little there is.
Crim 07-25-07, 01:27 AM	We were playing in my friend's real-life(ish) game based heavily off of the PC games X-COM. Earth was being invaded by aliens who were basically walking purple lobsters that injected egg sacks into you when then got you with their pincers. These eggs killed and reanimated the host body into zombies that got themselves destroyed so the larvae could escape. ANYWAYS. The only girl in our game was playing a medic. At one point, during our briefing as to what the **** these things were, she went on this huge discussion with the brass trying to figure out WHY they were attacking, what their society was like, what their behaviour and thought patterns were, what their reasoning behind this was... Meanwhile, everyone is staring like she's an idiot (which isn't pushing it that far...), the party's trying not to flip out, the DM is trying really hard to tell her that it's like watching WWII troops fight and trying to figure out what kind of music they listen to... ****ed up.
BlackHalfDragon 07-25-07, 01:35 AM	captain spacial awareness -2 wis modifier then ?
TheAnthroDM 07-25-07, 01:44 AM	Well, what's sexist isn't mentioning dumb things that some specific person did that may have been a result of gender, Uhm, yes it is, if you're judgement is that someone did something because of their gender, it is sexist, doesn't mean it's not true(though I haven't spotted a single thing that is) it just means it's sexist. But you're so adorable for trying to be intelligent, have a cookie. :cookie:
Von_Harbringer 07-25-07, 01:58 AM	DM : So you are all in the Shop and Tavern district of the great city of Anabilis. The place is made of polish stone making a great circle around a fountain that represent dolphin. Where are you? Girl Paladin : Im in the fountain taking a bath... :bigeyes: :OMG! This was a public fountain?
TheAnthroDM 07-25-07, 02:09 AM	:bigeyes: :OMG! This was a public fountain? In spirit of the thread, let me point out.... ^ typical male reaction
AvalancheRider 07-25-07, 02:15 AM	Uhm, yes it is, if you're judgement is that someone did something because of their gender, it is sexist, doesn't mean it's not true(though I haven't spotted a single thing that is) it just means it's sexist. But you're so adorable for trying to be intelligent, have a cookie. :cookie:Actually, no, it isn't. Sexism is about judging people before you have any evidence about their real personality on the basis of gender. If you judge them after they act like a stereotype, it's not sexism. So what you're doing right now is being a jerk by belittling people, and being a hypocrite for not understanding the terms you're using while attempting to mock someone else for not understanding the terms he's using. If I judge you as such, it's not sexism simply because I'm a male judging a female. It would only be sexism if I assumed you were going to be a jerk from the get-go based on you being a female. If I said "well, it's probably because he's a soccer player that he's playing soccer" it wouldn't be bigotry against soccer players, so why is saying "well, it's probably because she's a female that she chose to play an attractive character" bigotry? It's not. Saying "she's a female, so that means she's going to want to play something attractive" before she actually chose to would be the sexist comment in the same vein.
Zaver 07-25-07, 02:19 AM	We had just killed the top commander of the enemy army with out any one to witness the feat and decided to use that fact to cross enemy lines. Polymorphing our barbarian into him my self into his servant and the elf into a human our rogue, the girl, decided to just use her ring of invisiblity full time. We come to a town that some of the characters had been in before there was an enemy army and it is now occupied territory with much suffering and death for old friends. The rogue goes sneaking about town after using the permanent telepathic bond she has with the barbarian to let us know she was gone. Sneaking into the old captain of the guards office she finds all manor of thing, key to the story being a sword and a used chamber pot. She stole the sword from under the nose of it's owner and put it, hilt first, into the chamber pot.:D Many laughs were had by all. She has also snuck up on the sleeping commander of a group of soldiers pretending to be bandits and coup de graced the poor sap and much later in the campaign did the same to a chimera and a couple of drow who had at least enjoyed them selves prior to being done in most cruelly.
Von_Harbringer 07-25-07, 02:20 AM	In spirit of the thread, let me point out.... ^ typical male reaction Actually I was more surprised that it was a paladin. I figure they would be a little more modest. Believe me I played with a number of women that done worse things. If I mentioned them this thread would be locked. I find it annoying when guys play girl characters. They are either A) complete harlots or B) completely stuck up.
TheAnthroDM 07-25-07, 02:28 AM	Actually, no, it isn't. Sexism is about judging people before you have any evidence about their real personality on the basis of gender. If you judge them after they act like a stereotype, it's not sexism. Yes, yes it is, judging people based on their gender, no matter what other circumstances is sexist. So what you're doing right now is being a jerk by belittling people, and being a hypocrite for not understanding the terms you're using while attempting to mock someone else for not understanding the terms he's using. If I judge you as such, it's not sexism simply because I'm a male judging a female. It would only be sexism if I assumed you were going to be a jerk from the get-go based on you being a female. See the little sticker that spoiler block that says "The Anthro DM" in my signature for why this doesn't even apply. If I said "well, it's probably because he's a soccer player that he's playing soccer" it wouldn't be bigotry against soccer players, so why is saying "well, it's probably because she's a female that she chose to play an attractive character" bigotry? Because a soccer player is defined as someone who plays soccer, a female is not defined by choosing to play attractive characters. ;) It's not. Saying "she's a female, so that means she's going to want to play something attractive" before she actually chose to would be the sexist comment in the same vein. I think you want another cookie.
TheAnthroDM 07-25-07, 02:31 AM	Actually I was more surprised that it was a paladin. I figure they would be a little more modest. Believe me I played with a number of women that done worse things. If I mentioned them this thread would be locked. I find it annoying when guys play girl characters. They are either A) complete harlots or B) completely stuck up. Ahh, my mistake. Which should simply contribute more to the fact that this thread just makes pointless tension. Meh, I'm not sure if I find this annoying unless they ALWAYS do it, as some girls ARE complete harlots or completely stuck up, but then again playing either one of those isn't usually fun anyway, regardless of gender.
Insanit 07-25-07, 02:39 AM	I've had 1 paladin that would do little more than say thats not nice about the plans the guys made. she also colored her charicter sheet.
TheAnthroDM 07-25-07, 02:43 AM	she also colored her charicter sheet. I once had my character sheet printed on blue paper... and pink... and... grey... yeah, makes it easier to recognize when the DMs handing back sheets. Ever wonder why links change color after you press them? No probably not nevermind.
Crash169 07-25-07, 02:49 AM	I frown heavily upon this threads existence, and wonder how why freedom of speech with fire in a theater but not with sexism under guise. Well, now since you're begging for it. Is what he said sexist? Yeah. Is it true? Probably. Men generally like smooth non-complex black and white plots that don't offend their fragile ego and never have a female BBEG in fear that it makes them look submissive. I could say some bad qualities of women as DnD players but I think the rest of this thread has already made enough non-existent ones to compensate. Uhm, yes it is, if you're judgement is that someone did something because of their gender, it is sexist, doesn't mean it's not true(though I haven't spotted a single thing that is) it just means it's sexist. But you're so adorable for trying to be intelligent, have a cookie. I'm going to go ahead and say something smooth, non-complex, and black and white; OWNED. You are the BBEG of this thread, and judging by how badly you just "Owned" the sexist trolls, I see this thread coming to an end very soon. Oh, I didn't think AvalancheRider deserved that cookie, so I tried to steal it from him. After some time I realized that the cookie you gave him was a fake! So I had to go and find my own cookie... So after days of searching, I found one. I think you deserve it more than I do.. Here you go :cookie:. And to add to the thread, I've played with 2 girls before. One of them was introduced to the game because she was the DM's Girlfriend. He kept wandering off one night of every week, never telling her where he was going. Eventually, he told her, and she was intrigued. She made an elven ranger specialized with the bow. It lasted maybe two sessions, she got bored of it quick. The other played a rogue/punk type character. She was very chaotic, and random.
Thegans 07-25-07, 03:52 AM	I frown heavily upon this threads existence, and wonder how why freedom of speech with fire in a theater but not with sexism under guise. Well, now since you're begging for it. Is what he said sexist? Yeah. Is it true? Probably. Men generally like smooth non-complex black and white plots that don't offend their fragile ego and never have a female BBEG in fear that it makes them look submissive. I could say some bad qualities of women as DnD players but I think the rest of this thread has already made enough non-existent ones to compensate. Actually.. no wait nevermind. I'm not sure if it counts since I've actually yet to get arround to trying to play a game yet. No wait nevermind I generally make evil characters or netural characters that think there evil and most of the powerful good characters are gender neutral. Also about the fire thats simple its the same reason you can sue for spilling hot coffe on yourself and why I always see the warning lable 'edges may be sharp.' Well, what's sexist isn't mentioning dumb things that some specific person did that may have been a result of gender, it's stating that "only gender A is good at roleplaying" or "all chicks just wanna be elves." There hasn't really been much of that on this thread, but I object to what little there is. Actually considering there isn't a duplicate thread for guys the title its self is sexist. Although the elf thing kinds of makes sense. From what I've noticed girls in general seem more empathetic(I have no idea if I am spelling this right). Out of the seven 'normal' player races elves have the longest life span meaning they won't have to worry about it dieing of venerable age before the campaign ends. We were playing in my friend's real-life(ish) game based heavily off of the PC games X-COM. Earth was being invaded by aliens who were basically walking purple lobsters that injected egg sacks into you when then got you with their pincers. These eggs killed and reanimated the host body into zombies that got themselves destroyed so the larvae could escape. ANYWAYS. The only girl in our game was playing a medic. At one point, during our briefing as to what the **** these things were, she went on this huge discussion with the brass trying to figure out WHY they were attacking, what their society was like, what their behaviour and thought patterns were, what their reasoning behind this was... Meanwhile, everyone is staring like she's an idiot (which isn't pushing it that far...), the party's trying not to flip out, the DM is trying really hard to tell her that it's like watching WWII troops fight and trying to figure out what kind of music they listen to... ****ed up. To quote Art of War It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle. Uhm, yes it is, if you're judgement is that someone did something because of their gender, it is sexist, doesn't mean it's not true(though I haven't spotted a single thing that is) it just means it's sexist. But you're so adorable for trying to be intelligent, have a cookie. :cookie: You know you could make a duplicate thread but change girls to guys. Personally I would just put the word **** sapiens but I'm not completely normal. In spirit of the thread, let me point out.... ^ typical male reaction Actually a fountain almost makes sense because if you go along with the common idea that it takes place in a medieval(I have no idea if I spelt that right) time period. Most other water comes from the rivers and thats usually where they dumped the dead bodies. The fountain water would probably be the cleanest. Yes, yes it is, judging people based on their gender, no matter what other circumstances is sexist. Every other guy I met has either been an idiot, an *******, or a socipath that constantly claims to be the reincarnation of a dark god reborn to conquer the world and then destroy the multiverse that interuped every class to try to recruit people into his army and asked me if I wanted Russia since he doesn't want to bother governing the world and it would probably have the least ammount of people per acre. And no the last one was not a joke. I actually know some one like that. I use to be misanthropic until I discovered that everything I despise about this species is something caused by my gender so if you don't mind I am going to continue being sexist against my own gender. See the little sticker that spoiler block that says "The Anthro DM" in my signature for why this doesn't even apply. Can you tell me what number 11 would have been? Please. P.S. You might want to fix something in number 14. I once had my character sheet printed on blue paper... and pink... and... grey... yeah, makes it easier to recognize when the DMs handing back sheets. Ever wonder why links change color after you press them? No probably not nevermind. Oh I know this one its so if you can't remember which link you pressed so you don't keep clicking the same one 100 times like an idiot. Did I get it right? P.S. What kind of paper did you use my printer always has a problem when I try to use construction paper and, well mostly I want to know if their is another kind of colored paper incase I decide to try it?
TheAnthroDM 07-25-07, 04:08 AM	Can you tell me what number 11 would have been? Please. P.S. You might want to fix something in number 14. All patched up and fixed, go look again. Oh I know this one its so if you can't remember which link you pressed so you don't keep clicking the same one 100 times like an idiot. Did I get it right? P.S. What kind of paper did you use my printer always has a problem when I try to use construction paper and, well mostly I want to know if their is another kind of colored paper incase I decide to try it? Correct. And I don't know the brand of the paper, but it was just colored normal computer paper. I through the wrappers away so I dunno >-< PS. It'd probably be a good idea to let this thread die now.
KillerGM 07-25-07, 04:16 AM	This topic is made of stupid. You win this thread. **Gets on soapbox** What have GIRLS done in my game? Amused me, frustrated me, surprised me, made me laugh so hard I almost peed myself, really cared about their character, made kick-ass characters, made lame-ass characters, put a ton of effort in, put no effort in at all... Pretty much the same as any of my guy players. I hate that it's such a big deal that GIRLS play this game. You may think you're encouraging them to play, but you're really just highlighting the fact that girls are in the minority are still viewed as something "other". I want nothing more than to be judged by the content of my character, not the reproductive organs I have. And drawing correlations between the characters I play and my gender is waaaaaaaay oversimplifying and offensive. Who would be offended if someone started the following topics: 101 things that AFRICAN AMERICANS did in your game. 101 things that JEWS did in your game. 101 things that MUSLIMS did in your game. 101 things that ASIANS did in your game. ? Or what if someone said "Black people make great roleplayers, they love the complexities of plot." Or "Asians are great with numbers, so they have really optimized characters." :eek: Ok, getting off soapbox now.... :P
AvalancheRider 07-25-07, 04:20 AM	Yes, yes it is, judging people based on their gender, no matter what other circumstances is sexist.But it's not based on their gender. It's based on their actions, which happen to support a gender stereotype. See the little sticker that spoiler block that says "The Anthro DM" in my signature for why this doesn't even apply....so because you admit to being a jerk, it doesn't apply when people call you on being a jerk? News flash: it makes you no less of a jerk. Because a soccer player is defined as someone who plays soccer, a female is not defined by choosing to play attractive characters. ;) Incorrect. I have played soccer before but would never consider myself a "soccer player." If someone makes a regular practice out of playing soccer, then chances are that person is a soccer player. If you make a regular practice out of being feminine, chances are you're a female. If you assume that everyone who ever does anything feminine is female or that only females are capable of feminine behavior, then you're sexist. If someone acts incredibly feminine in the absence of other evidence and you assume they're a female, that's just rational. I think you want another cookie.I think you're incapable of civil discourse.
Feredenil 07-25-07, 06:59 AM	Well, the topic is '101 things that GIRLS did in your game' Why don't we just say our experience and save the sexist comments and implications for ourselves ? This IS an interesting topic enough I think, why spoil it so badly ?
hovnarr 07-25-07, 08:15 AM	Describing traits or facts of an arbitrary group isn't offensive. For example, stating that black people can take sun better than white people, or that women are worse archers than men because they are weaker and their breasts impeeds the draw, isn't racist or sexist, respectively. However, stating that black people should work in the cotton fields since they handle the sun so well, or that women should leave archery to men since they are so poor at it - that would be racist and sexist. I think >90% of the people posting in this thread have only relayed their experience of what girls have done in their games. That's not sexist, it's simple fact. Similarly, a thread about 101 things that ASIANS did in you game wouldn't be offensive either - it would just be a bit strange. Most people don't have a clear cut image of what the asian stereotype would be, so we don't know what would be funny. Even though I have a Chinese gf and have several Chinese friends, I would have hard to narrow down an asian stereotype. Almost everyone is familiar with male and female sterotypes though, which makes a gender oriented thread have a lot more humor potential. In my experience, there is no more oppressed person than the white, heterosexual, Christian, middle aged man. It's just that he's the norm, so we don't notice as much. Of all bashings, is there any more common than male bashing? It's OK to joke about hetero sex, but watch out for anything else. If anyone draws a caricature of Mohammed there's a global outrage, but you can do pretty much what you want to good ol' Jesus and still be Politically Correct (TM). It's bad to joke about children and old people, but what about the rest? And don't get me started on anticaucasianism. I've also been surprised to find that the most anti-semitic people I have met were jews themselves, and that those most oppressive of women, and indeed hateful of femininity as such, are often women. Hey, it's a crazy world, but lets try to keep freedom of speech while we can still enjoy it.
matrix_king3 07-25-07, 08:38 AM	Well, the topic is '101 things that GIRLS did in your game' Why don't we just say our experience and save the sexist comments and implications for ourselves ? This IS an interesting topic enough I think, why spoil it so badly ? Thanks for the comment. I made this thread because girls are special when playing and Im sure that many of you got story about girls player.
Grogmir 07-25-07, 09:03 AM	Hovnarr – You make subtle, succinct points that I agree with many but this one “In my experience, there is no more oppressed person than the white, heterosexual, Christian, middle aged man.” Then you have a very very strange experiences. Grogmir
hovnarr 07-25-07, 09:13 AM	Hovnarr – You make subtle, succinct points that I agree with many but this one “In my experience, there is no more oppressed person than the white, heterosexual, Christian, middle aged man.” Then you have a very very strange experiences. Grogmir I understand that you find it strange, but I trust you read my rationale in the sentences afterwards that explained my position? And perhaps, I should clarify that with "my experience", I mean my direct, personal, everyday experience. Of course, it's hard to compare snyde remarks about christianity and how men are not good at anything with the situation for certain ethnic groups in contries that you're fortunate enough to observe from the safe distance of your TV couch. That's not what I'm doing. I don't think watching TV counts as a personal experience in that respect. I'm talking about that the people that I meet everyday tend to mock men more than women, white people more than other races, christianity more than other religions etc. Hope that clarifies it a bit.
TheAnthroDM 07-25-07, 09:33 AM	But it's not based on their gender. It's based on their actions, which happen to support a gender stereotype. Oh you think you found a loophole. No, you're saying they did something because the were that gender. That's sexist, stop trying to worm your way out of it. ...so because you admit to being a jerk, it doesn't apply when people call you on being a jerk? News flash: it makes you no less of a jerk. No no no. You're assuming I'm a jerk because I'm a woman, but my signature clearly states I don't claim to be that gender. Technically speaking I could claim to be either male or female, and be correct, but that's not really on topic is it? Incorrect. I have played soccer before but would never consider myself a "soccer player." If someone makes a regular practice out of playing soccer, then chances are that person is a soccer player. Let us see about that shall we? soccer player noun an athlete who plays soccer athlete a person trained or gifted in exercises or contests involving physical agility, stamina, or strength; a participant in a sport, exercise, or game requiring physical skill. Hmm, yes, so a soccer player is a person who plays soccer. You sir, lose. If you make a regular practice out of being feminine, chances are you're a female. O.o So crossdressers are female? Well, as long as you don't tell them that, they'll laugh at you. you assume that everyone who ever does anything feminine is female or that only females are capable of feminine behavior, then you're sexist. Actually that's closer to what you said If someone acts incredibly feminine in the absence of other evidence and you assume they're a female, that's just rational. Uhm... Sure. Because Feminine and female are completely related. *whisper to the stage manager* Cue the tomboys and butch lesbians. I think you're incapable of civil discourse. Then you need to talk to the police in my area. ;)
Davro 07-25-07, 09:34 AM	What girls* did in my campaign: Roleplayed as well, if not better, than the guys in the party. *more accurately, women.
TheAnthroDM 07-25-07, 09:45 AM	Well, the topic is '101 things that GIRLS did in your game' Why don't we just say our experience and save the sexist comments and implications for ourselves ? This IS an interesting topic enough I think, why spoil it so badly ? Because it is annoying. It's just as offensive as say 101 things that CHRISTIANS did in your game, except making fun of christians is slightly more acceptable in society. Describing traits or facts of an arbitrary group isn't offensive. For example, stating that black people can take sun better than white people, or that women are worse archers than men because they are weaker and their breasts impeeds the draw, isn't racist or sexist, respectively. Correct, but these are physical traits. However, stating that black people should work in the cotton fields since they handle the sun so well, or that women should leave archery to men since they are so poor at it - that would be racist and sexist. That would be correct. I think >90% of the people posting in this thread have only relayed their experience of what girls have done in their games. That's not sexist, it's simple fact. This is true, but the problem is that the OP and the thread itself seem to encourage the bashing of woman. Similarly, a thread about 101 things that ASIANS did in you game wouldn't be offensive either - it would just be a bit strange. Most people don't have a clear cut image of what the asian stereotype would be, so we don't know what would be funny. Even though I have a Chinese gf and have several Chinese friends, I would have hard to narrow down an asian stereotype. Almost everyone is familiar with male and female sterotypes though, which makes a gender oriented thread have a lot more humor potential. Here you are wrong, if I was asian I would be very offended if such a thread existed. In my experience, there is no more oppressed person than the white, heterosexual, Christian, middle aged man. It's just that he's the norm, so we don't notice as much. Of all bashings, is there any more common than male bashing? It's OK to joke about hetero sex, but watch out for anything else. If anyone draws a caricature of Mohammed there's a global outrage, but you can do pretty much what you want to good ol' Jesus and still be Politically Correct (TM). It's bad to joke about children and old people, but what about the rest? And don't get me started on anticaucasianism. You are in a way correct. There is a lot of oppression related to being white, heterosexual, christian and male.(Not sure about middle aged though) However, it is not any more(and possibly less) than it is being a black homosexual atheist women. I've also been surprised to find that the most anti-semitic people I have met were jews themselves, and that those most oppressive of women, and indeed hateful of femininity as such, are often women. Hey, it's a crazy world, but lets try to keep freedom of speech while we can still enjoy it. Except, this is not America, this is the internet, and this board COC forbids baiting, and this thread is a giant frickin fishhook. Thanks for the comment. I made this thread because girls are special when playing and Im sure that many of you got story about girls player. Girls are special? No, no they are not. Girls are just like everyone else. I doesn't matter how much you bleach is your comment is still amounts to: "Girls are completely alien to me and since I am the center to the universe this makes them different." But you do get points for trying to be nice about it. Hovnarr – You make subtle, succinct points that I agree with many but this one “In my experience, there is no more oppressed person than the white, heterosexual, Christian, middle aged man.” Then you have a very very strange experiences. Grogmir Actually, he is right. As a man you're forced not to express any feminine thoughts whatsoever, as a white person you are targeted because of what you ancestors did, and as a Christian you are targeted by what fanatics of your religion do.
Grogmir 07-25-07, 09:45 AM	“Of course, it's hard to compare snyde remarks about christianity and how men are not good at anything with the situation for certain ethnic groups” Yes it is hard to compare snide remarks to thousand years of brutal history... but some how you manage it and come up arse about face. Yes I did read your post, like I said you make good points. But managing to escalate that up to the statement quoted in my last post just flies in the face of sense. Grogmir
TheAnthroDM 07-25-07, 09:50 AM	“Of course, it's hard to compare snyde remarks about christianity and how men are not good at anything with the situation for certain ethnic groups” Yes it is hard to compare snide remarks to thousand years of brutal history... but some how you manage it and come up arse about face. Yes I did read your post, like I said you make good points. But managing to escalate that up to the statement quoted in my last post just flies in the face of sense. Grogmir The sins of the father should not rest on the shoulder of the son. White people are under oppression now but so is just about every other race, the problem is, some people will bring up: Well your great great great grandfather was a racist slave owner, so you must be too. my response to that is. "**** you, I didn't even know my grandfather, and I'm not any more of a racist than you are. In fact, based on what you just said, I'm less racist than you are."
Roog 07-25-07, 09:56 AM	If you make a regular practice out of being feminine, chances are you're a female. O.o So crossdressers are female? Well, as long as you don't tell them that, they'll laugh at you. As long as females make up at least 50% of the feminine population AvalancheRider is right. And I would be very surprised to discover that feminine crossdressers outnumber feminine females. If someone acts incredibly feminine in the absence of other evidence and you assume they're a female, that's just rational. Uhm... Sure. Because Feminine and female are completely related. *whisper to the stage manager* Cue the tomboys and butch lesbians. "in the absence of other evidence", again feminine females outnumber feminine non-females by a significant majority so he is correct. Related (or correlated, which is what AvalancheRider is talking about) is in no way the same thing as "completely related". In the US having a Passport correlates with voting "Democrat", this does not mean that there are no Republicans with passports; that conclusion would just be idiotic. It's just basic Statistics.
TheAnthroDM 07-25-07, 09:57 AM	Repair that broken post before I can respond, kthx.
Grogmir 07-25-07, 10:01 AM	Actually, he is right. As a man you're forced not to express any feminine thoughts whatsoever, as a white person you are targeted because of what you ancestors did, and as a Christian you are targeted by what fanatics of your religion do. And how does this compare to SLAVERY?, THE HOLOCAUST?, 1000’s years of subservience against woman? Not to mention the continual higher rate of prosecution of Black people, the lesser earnings of women, the continual absence of women in positions of power. The wars in Kashmir, Darfur, Cheneya, Sri Lanka??? I’ll concede that is never been so easy or accepted to mock the white, heterosexual, Christian, middle aged man. But some how you go from mock to oppressed. Just stop and think what the word actually means! (Shall I help you) Opressed - To keep down by severe and unjust use of force or authority. I would love to know how not being able to express feminine thoughts (whatever that means) is oppression. Grogmir.
TheAnthroDM 07-25-07, 10:07 AM	And how does this compare to SLAVERY?, THE HOLOCAUST?, 1000’s years of subservience against woman? Not to mention the continual higher rate of prosecution of Black people, the lesser earnings of women, the continual absence of women in positions of power. The wars in Kashmir, Darfur, Cheneya, Sri Lanka??? I’ll concede that is never been so easy or accepted to mock the white, heterosexual, Christian, middle aged man. But some how you go from mock to oppressed. Just stop and think what the word actually means! (Shall I help you) Opressed - To keep down by severe and unjust use of force or authority. I would love to know how not being able to express feminine thoughts (whatever that means) is oppression. Grogmir. See my above post. It starts with "The sin of the father" but I'm sure you think all Germans are Nazis and won't be moved to realize for error. Not being able to express your emotions or thoughts is a form of oppression, a male who expresses their feminine side is targeted by society as being weak and an unfit father. By the literal definition you are right, the proper words would be discriminated against, but oppressed is used in the same relation that one would use Best instead of Good in advertising, it gets the point across better.
TheAnthroDM 07-25-07, 10:11 AM	As long as females make up at least 50% of the feminine population AvalancheRider is right. And I would be very surprised to discover that feminine crossdressers outnumber feminine females. "in the absence of other evidence", again feminine females outnumber feminine non-females by a significant majority so he is correct. Actually you'd be surprised to learn that there is a high percentage of masculine females ad you have yet to prove to be feminine men don't outnumber or are equal to feminine females, keep in mind that you must of course make sure you get the statistics from actual field work rather than surveys since many men will never admit to being feminine.
AvalancheRider 07-25-07, 10:16 AM	Oh you think you found a loophole. No, you're saying they did something because the were that gender. That's sexist, stop trying to worm your way out of it.No...I found the honest truth. I never said anyone did anything because of their gender. You may wish to go back and reread all of my comments on this thread, because I never said anything even approaching that. No no no. You're assuming I'm a jerk because I'm a woman, but my signature clearly states I don't claim to be that gender. Technically speaking I could claim to be either male or female, and be correct, but that's not really on topic is it?No, I know you're a jerk because you're condescending and obnoxious. I assume you are female because you're having such a violent overreaction to this thread and especially my comments. It's a safe assumption even if it's incorrect. Hmm, yes, so a soccer player is a person who plays soccer. You sir, loose.Actually, the word you were looking for was "lose." Additionally, I do believe that the use of the word "athlete" in that definition disqualifies most of the people who play soccer from being "soccer players." O.o So crossdressers are female? Well, as long as you don't tell them that, they'll laugh at you.This was already countered by another poster. Uhm... Sure. Because Feminine and female are completely related. *whisper to the stage manager* Cue the tomboys and butch lesbians.You seem to have a great deal of difficulty reading. Did you or did you not see the phrase "chances are?" That phrase typically flags something as "not always true, but more often true than not." Then you need to talk to the police in my area. ;)How shocking that anyone would become unreasonable in discourse with you when you act so politely.
Roog 07-25-07, 10:22 AM	Actually you'd be surprised to learn that there is a high percentage of masculine females I would not be surprised at "a high percentage", but I would be very surprised at a majority. If it was a majority that would mean that femininity is not itself a feminine trait. ad you have yet to prove to be feminine men don't outnumber or are equal to feminine females, keep in mind that you must of course make sure you get the statistics from actual field work rather than surveys since many men will never admit to being feminine. Obviously I'm not going to be able to provide you with those statistics, but I would be very interested in any statistics you have that show the opposite (given the implications in overturning common views). Although in any case, if (A) there is a significant proportion of feminine males, and (B) a significant proportion of males would never admit to being feminine, that would make both the field work and deriving any reliable stats based on survey data awkward.
TheAnthroDM 07-25-07, 10:23 AM	No...I found the honest truth. I never said anyone did anything because of their gender. You may wish to go back and reread all of my comments on this thread, because I never said anything even approaching that. I would provide evidence, but it's all over the thread, so I'll just say: Look up. No, I know you're a jerk because you're condescending and obnoxious. I assume you are female because you're having such a violent overreaction to this thread and especially my comments. It's a safe assumption even if it's incorrect.Do you too, want a cookie? Actually, the word you were looking for was "lose." Well excuse me all to pieces for making a typo. Additionally, I do believe that the use of the word "athlete" in that definition disqualifies most of the people who play soccer from being "soccer players." Then you would be wrong. This was already countered by another poster. In other words "I have no counter point"? You seem to have a great deal of difficulty reading. Did you or did you not see the phrase "chances are?" That phrase typically flags something as "not always true, but more often true than not." No, I disregarded it because it's blatantly obvious you simply put it there so you didn't seem like as much of a ass. How shocking that anyone would become unreasonable in discourse with you when you act so politely. Aren't I an angel? ;)
TheAnthroDM 07-25-07, 10:25 AM	I would not be surprised at "a high percentage", but I would be very surprised at a majority. Obviously I'm not going to be able to provide you with those statistics, but I would be very interested in any statistics you have that show the opposite. Although in any case, if (A) there is a significant proportion of feminine males, and (B) a significant proportion of males would never admit to being feminine, that would make both the field work and deriving any reliable stats based on survey data awkward. Ah, you are correct. As neither of us can prove our points I think this would be the point to respectfully disagree, don't you?
Grogmir 07-25-07, 10:25 AM	“See my above post. It starts with "The sin of the father" but I'm sure you think all Germans are Nazis and won't be moved to realize for error.” That’s why I also mentioned events that are still happening now. Not being able to express your emotions or thoughts is a form of oppression, a male who expresses their feminine side is targeted by society as being weak and an unfit father. Yes and I’m surrounded by pictures constanely everyday by Fathers being mocked for being feminine, if I open my paper to page 3 I wont find a naked women on display I’ll find the daily ‘mock a white Christian man article’. When I turn on my TV (yes I’m afraid I do own one) I wont see stick thin models, I’ll see a man getting the **** taken out of him. Arrrr dudems. How bad it is to be a christian white man.. I earn more for the same job, I’m less likely to go to prision, I’m less likely to be killed in a war, I have constant running water and power, my partner now has a full time job but I’m still 95% likely to do less housework. But alas if I mention I like somebodies hair – Oh then it all gets too much to take. Get a grip, the Christian, Middle aged, White Male is in the minority on this world yet we control what ~90% of the world resources. Oppressed my A£$e. Grogmir
_Jayne_Cobb_ 07-25-07, 10:26 AM	My group is split 50/50 male and female. The only difference between the two is the the female players tend to be a bit more bloodthristy. We are still allowed to respond on topic, right?
TheAnthroDM 07-25-07, 10:28 AM	My group is split 50/50 male and female. The only difference between the two is the the female players tend to be a bit more bloodthristy. <-< Hehehe, you would to if you wore high heels XP
Roog 07-25-07, 10:29 AM	Ah, you are correct. As neither of us can prove our points I think this would be the point to respectfully disagree, don't you? I'm always happy to respectfully disagree, but I was hoping you would be able to provide more support for such an unintuitive claim.
TheAnthroDM 07-25-07, 10:29 AM	That’s why I also mentioned events that are still happening now. Yes and I’m surrounded by pictures constanely everyday by Fathers being mocked for being feminine, if I open my paper to page 3 I wont find a naked women on display I’ll find the daily ‘mock a white Christian man article’. When I turn on my TV (yes I’m afraid I do own one) I wont see stick thin models, I’ll see a man getting the **** taken out of him. Arrrr dudems. How bad it is to be a christian white man.. I earn more for the same job, I’m less likely to go to prision, I’m less likely to be killed in a war, I have constant running water and power, my partner now has a full time job but I’m still 95% likely to do less housework. But alas if I mention I like somebodies hair – Oh then it all gets too much to take. Get a grip, the Christian, Middle aged, White Male is in the minority on this world yet we control what ~90% of the world resources. Oppressed my A£$e. Grogmir Sounds to me like you're worlds all about money and the news media. Have a cookie. :cookie:
TheAnthroDM 07-25-07, 10:32 AM	I'm always happy to respectfully disagree, but I was hoping you would be able to provide more support for such an unintuitive claim. I'm sure I could look some up, but frankly I don't think this thread need become a sociological debate(too late >-<), I have other forums for that.
Grand Theft Otto 07-25-07, 10:33 AM	My group is split 50/50 male and female. The only difference between the two is the the female players tend to be a bit more bloodthristy. Its good to see someone else with fiesty gals!
Erato 07-25-07, 10:52 AM	You win this thread. **Gets on soapbox** What have GIRLS done in my game? Amused me, frustrated me, surprised me, made me laugh so hard I almost peed myself, really cared about their character, made kick-ass characters, made lame-ass characters, put a ton of effort in, put no effort in at all... Pretty much the same as any of my guy players. I hate that it's such a big deal that GIRLS play this game. You may think you're encouraging them to play, but you're really just highlighting the fact that girls are in the minority are still viewed as something "other". I want nothing more than to be judged by the content of my character, not the reproductive organs I have. And drawing correlations between the characters I play and my gender is waaaaaaaay oversimplifying and offensive. Thank you :D , and well said. But it's not based on their gender. It's based on their actions, which happen to support a gender stereotype. So the point of this thread is to collect stories about GIRLS whose actions fit a stereotype :confused: Or to write about how GIRLS behave, in order to figure out a stereotype for them :confused: And this has nothing to do with sexism :confused: I think >90% of the people posting in this thread have only relayed their experience of what girls have done in their games. That's not sexist, it's simple fact. Have you ever heard about a little thing called illusory correlations? Basically, if you keep linking certain actions with certain people, you can convince yourself that they are related, even when in fact, they're not. To give an example from this forum (without naming anyone): A poster posted about how he didn't understand GIRLS, and how FEMALE players were crazy. He explained his situation (a conflict with a FEMALE player) and asked for help to understand her strange GIRLY behavior. 90% of the other posters answered: “She behaved like I would have done”. The point is, that because it wasn't normal for this poster to play with GIRLS, he was very aware of everything these GIRLS did, and because he was a male gamer, he desperately needed to turn every action made by a GIRL into a question of her FEMALENESS, even when no connection existed. It might not be on purpose, but people in that thread mostly agreed that it was sexist. Similarly, a thread about 101 things that ASIANS did in you game wouldn't be offensive either - it would just be a bit strange. Most people don't have a clear cut image of what the Asian stereotype would be, so we don't know what would be funny. Even though I have a Chinese gf and have several Chinese friends, I would have hard to narrow down an asian stereotype. Almost everyone is familiar with male and female sterotypes though, which makes a gender oriented thread have a lot more humor potential. So because there's not clear stereotype of Asian gamers, it's not fun to point them out :confused: And this thread is just made to confirm stereotypes which isn't sexist at all :confused: In my experience, there is no more oppressed person than the white, heterosexual, Christian, middle aged man. It's just that he's the norm, so we don't notice as much. Of all bashings, is there any more common than male bashing? Men are not the majority outside China and India. Christians aren't the majority in a lot of western countries. Whites aren't the majority in all countries (I know there's posters here from places like Japan and South Africa). I assume you're talking about your own country, and forgetting that this is and international message board. But even in your country, the fact that a minority (men) have made themselves the norm, proves that they're not really that oppressed. Girls are special? No, no they are not. Girls are just like everyone else. I doesn't matter how much you bleach is your comment is still amounts to: "Girls are completely alien to me and since I am the center to the universe this makes them different." But you do get points for trying to be nice about it. Well said. I might disagree with some of the things you say, but this pretty much summed up what I would have said :)
Grogmir 07-25-07, 10:56 AM	Originally Posted by Roog I'm always happy to respectfully disagree, but I was hoping you would be able to provide more support for such an unintuitive claim. Don’t think you’re likely to get one Roog. Apprantley he can dismiss 1000’s of years of history and eveidence with a cookie (and not even a real one at that!!) I pity the poor souls on the forums where he actually does debate. Here’s a final question for TheAnthroDM, it’s a yes or no questions so should be nice and easy for you. Would you rather be Black, Female, Sikh and living in Afganistan? Exactly now take that cookie, take 10 and think about your amazingly lucky life. Grogmir P.S Average wage of a teacher in Sri Lanka, £150 (That’s 75 Dollars) a month – wonder how I would know that eh? So stop trying to tell me I only get information via TV/media.
TheAnthroDM 07-25-07, 11:04 AM	Don’t think you’re likely to get one Roog. Apprantley he can dismiss 1000’s of years of history and eveidence with a cookie (and not even a real one at that!!) I pity the poor souls on the forums where he actually does debate. Here’s a final question for TheAnthroDM, it’s a yes or no questions so should be nice and easy for you. Would you rather be Black, Female, Sikh and living in Afganistan? You are so funny. You completely ignore my statement because of course. To paraphrase. "The sins of the father are NOT the sins of the son. When you blame me for what my ancestors did you're being racist." First of all, kick female out of there, answering any question regarding my gender will likely turn into a debate. Second of all, No, I like America because it provides me with freedom to express me views, even if the majority of people don't agree with them(or does the minority not agree with them? I dunno I haven't studied the stastics.) Also, I don't know what Sikh is, but if you didn't notice, if you're a white male Christian you are generally the target of all other minorities, and furthermore you cannot make any retaliation or else you'll be labeled, racist or sexist. Oh, and lastly, I'm the one that decided to respectfully disagree, so don't pretend you know what I'll do based on five minutes of knowing me. PS. Read my signature and you'll know why I gave you a cookie, here's another one by the way. :cookie: PSS. I am not amazingly lucky. Assuming that my life is a cakewalk from 5 minutes of posting awards you a third cookie. :cookie:
Roog 07-25-07, 11:13 AM	@Grogmir Just remember that when hovnarr said... In my experience, there is no more oppressed person than the white, heterosexual, Christian, middle aged man. It would not be unreasonable to take "In my experience", to mean in his direct experience (i.e. in his time, in his country, and to a degree in his personal experience). And if you do that, his point (although its now becoming a cliche) has some validity. However the oppression he refers to would better be described as a "social freedom to admit prejudice against", rather than an actual oppression.
hovnarr 07-25-07, 11:15 AM	Almost everyone who replied to my post didn't consider that just MAYBE there might be a difference between saying: "In my experience, P" and "It is a fact that P". I never meant to suggest that of all ethnicities, religions etc. that the white, christian, male is the most oppressed. I mean that, from where I'm around (which happens to be Sweden actually), we are the majority, the norm, and the most oppressed. Hell, I come from a country where it is common place to be slightly ashamed that you're Swedish. Describing something as unswedish is generally considered a positive description here. Just to tell you a little bit about where I'm from. This here is a good example of the misunderstanding: And how does this compare to SLAVERY?, THE HOLOCAUST?, 1000’s years of subservience against woman? Not to mention the continual higher rate of prosecution of Black people, the lesser earnings of women, the continual absence of women in positions of power. The wars in Kashmir, Darfur, Cheneya, Sri Lanka??? I hope it comes as no surprise that I have not experience slavery, the holocaust, the wars of Sri Lanka etc. All I'm saying is that in my life, the average Joe is the most oppressed person. And if we must oppress, perhaps that is even a good thing - prefered to the majority ganging up on the minority. My point is that we shouldn't forget the color "white" in racism, the gender "male" in sexism etc. when it comes to inequality. EDIT: Ninjad by Roog, who actually read my post, it appears. Thanks Roog!
Roog 07-25-07, 11:16 AM	No, I like America because it provides me with freedom to express me views, even if the majority of people don't agree with them(or does the minority not agree with them? I dunno I haven't studied the stastics.) No, its fine by me, you are talking about views in the abstract. :D
TheAnthroDM 07-25-07, 11:19 AM	@Grogmir Just remember that when hovnarr said... It would not be unreasonable to take "In my experience", to mean in his direct experience (i.e. in his time, in his country, and to a degree in his personal experience). And if you do that, his point (although its now becoming a cliche) has some validity. However the oppression he refers to would better be described as a "social freedom to admit prejudice against", rather than an actual oppression. More likely "social freedom to act outside the stereotype without being persecuted by others of your race/religion/sex and social freedom to act within your stereotype without being persecuted by other peoples race/religion/sex"
TheAnthroDM 07-25-07, 11:21 AM	To add to anyone who thinks of saying I don't know what it's like to be oppressed, people like me are killed on a average of 1/month for simply being themselves. So I know something about being oppressed NOW as opposed to having my ancestors oppressed 100 years ago.(Or less depending on your specific heritage)
Grogmir 07-25-07, 11:23 AM	I’m not blaming you for what your ancestors did, again I’ll repeat I’ve mention things that are happening NOW.. GET IT NOW! . I asked a simple yes or No question. Please answer it. First of all, kick female out of there - On a thread about Sexism!!?!?? “but if you didn't notice, if you're a white male Christian you are generally the target of all other minorities, and furthermore you cannot make any retaliation or else you'll be labeled, racist or sexist.” And I agreed with you that it has become more acceptable to mock, thats mock not oppress, the White Male Christian. But quite frankly if that’s a price I have to pay to stay top of the ‘food’ chain. Well I’ll pay that any day of the week. “Oh, and lastly, I'm the one that decided to respectfully disagree” No you dismissed my examples with an internet cookie. That’s respectful is it? “Also, I don't know what Sikh is” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikh That really says it all doesn’t it. You preach about Minorities yet you don’t even know one. Grogmir. PS. Read my signature – Er what sig? P.P.s If you from California, Using a computer, White and Male I think it pretty safe to assume in the grander scheme of life then yes, your life is a cakewalk, at least, compared to 99% of the other 60 BILLION people in the world. Roog, that’s why I said he must have had some strange personal experiences, to come to that view.
Roog 07-25-07, 11:32 AM	To add to anyone who thinks of saying I don't know what it's like to be oppressed, people like me are killed on a average of 1/month for simply being themselves. So I know something about being oppressed NOW as opposed to having my ancestors oppressed 100 years ago.(Or less depending on your specific heritage) And 5,000,000 people like me die every month, and 170,000 are killed (according to my back of the envelope calculations). However that is out of a population of ~6.6 billion people like me. I don't mean to be callous, but unless we know the size of the population, 1/month is a meaningless figure.
TheAnthroDM 07-25-07, 11:39 AM	- On a thread about Sexism!!?!?? YES. Because you're assuming my gender is male! and to go into detail describing the complexity of that subject will lead to another topic entirely! And I agreed with you that it has become more acceptable to mock, thats mock not oppress, the White Male Christian. But quite frankly if that’s a price I have to pay to stay top of the ‘food’ chain. Well I’ll pay that any day of the week. I'd rather have a tad less money than be criticized no matter what I do. No you dismissed my examples with an internet cookie. That’s respectful is it? I suggested a respectful disagreement with Roog not with you. “Also, I don't know what Sikh is” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikh That really says it all doesn’t it. You preach about Minorities yet you don’t even know one. Grogmir. So sue me for not knowing every religion in the world, I don't know what it means to be a Sikh so I can't answer your question. And I don't preach. ;) PS. Read my signature – Er what sig? It's at the top of the page I believe, also, have another on simply for that comment :cookie: P.P.s If you from California, Using a computer, White and Male I think it pretty safe to assume in the grander scheme of life then yes, your life is a cakewalk, at least, compared to 99% of the other 60 BILLION people in the world. Roog, that’s why I said he must have had some strange personal experiences, to come to that view. You don't understand that life is relative to the one living. :rolleyes: Furthermore see my above post about my life being a cakewalk. And stop assuming I'm a white christian male just cause I'm defending them!
hovnarr 07-25-07, 11:41 AM	More likely "social freedom to act outside the stereotype without being persecuted by others of your race/religion/sex and social freedom to act within your stereotype without being persecuted by other peoples race/religion/sex" Well, I'm not a native english speaker, and from this debate I have come to understand that the word "oppress" has a more narrow meaning than its Swedish translation, which is more liberally used even to imply lack of social or mental freedom. But it still goes deeper than the above quote. Here's an example from my everyday life to illustrate: I was walking on the sidewalk with my neighbour on the small street outside my house, when a young man drives past us on his bike. Now, in Sweden it's illegal to ride your bike on the sidewalk. So my neighbour says, "Hey, ride your bike in the street, the sidewalk's for pedestrians!" At this point, the biker turned around and called my neighbour a "f-cking racist!". You see, my neighbour is white and the biker was black. But to me, that was a case of the white race getting "oppressed" in lack of a more suitable world (help me out with a better synonym here). The biker would never had said such a thing if we had also been black. Now I don't very much mind being subjected to this treatment. I have a good life and don't care so much about what other people say or think about me. But I think the situation could be better, even though problems in the country where I live are small if compared, for example, to those of Irak or many other countries.
TheAnthroDM 07-25-07, 11:41 AM	And 5,000,000 people like me die every month, and 170,000 are killed (according to my back of the envelope calculations). However that is out of a population of ~6.6 billion people like me. *raises an everybrow* I doubt that entirely, and more over this is relative to the life you live. You've just shown your biased, which makes everything you say from this point on.... INVALID PS. Let me ask, are YOU are risk of dying because of being who you are? No, I didn't think so. I don't mean to be callous, but unless we know the size of the population, 1/month is a meaningless figure. ******** you don't mean to be callous. You don't know how many people there are like me, 1/month in America is a good percentage based on what I know of the condition. I highly doubt since you have access to a computer that YOU are in direct danger, but I am.
TheAnthroDM 07-25-07, 11:43 AM	Well, I'm not a native english speaker, and from this debate I have come to understand that the word "oppress" has a more narrow meaning than its Swedish translation, which is more liberally used even to imply lack of social or mental freedom. But it still goes deeper than the above quote. Here's an example from my everyday life to illustrate: I was walking on the sidewalk with my neighbour on the small street outside my house, when a young man drives past us on his bike. Now, in Sweden it's illegal to ride your bike on the sidewalk. So my neighbour says, "Hey, ride your bike in the street, the sidewalk's for pedestrians!" At this point, the biker turned around and called my neighbour a "f-cking racist!". You see, my neighbour is white and the biker was black. But to me, that was a case of the white race getting "oppressed" in lack of a more suitable world (help me out with a better synonym here). The biker would never had said such a thing if we had also been black. Now I don't very much mind being subjected to this treatment. I have a good life and don't care so much about what other people say or think about me. But I think the situation could be better, even though problems in the country where I live are small if compared, for example, to those of Irak or many other countries. Life is relative to those who live it. Comparing one life to another on mechanical terms will always end in messy results.
AvalancheRider 07-25-07, 11:43 AM	I would provide evidence, but it's all over the thread, so I'll just say: Look up....nope, not seeing anything. Well excuse me all to pieces for making a typo.Perhaps if you excuse the myriad of other nitpicks you make during your arguments against everyone else, I would consider it. In other words "I have no counter point"?No, in other words "someone else already made my counterpoint." I sincerely hope you're being purposefully obtuse and that this kind of argumentation and behavior isn't an indicator of your actual intelligence level. No, I disregarded it because it's blatantly obvious you simply put it there so you didn't seem like as much of a ass.No, I put it there because it made my statement factual instead of it being a complete and total sexist lie. Of course, you have a complete inability to grasp the subtle difference between "everyone all the time" and "most people most of the time," which is probably why you're having so much difficulty and frustration over statements that you perceive to be wildly different than they actually were.
TheAnthroDM 07-25-07, 11:51 AM	...nope, not seeing anything. It must be nice to be ignorant Perhaps if you excuse the myriad of other nitpicks you make during your arguments against everyone else, I would consider it. Horrid come back, responding to sarcasm with seriousness. No, in other words "someone else already made my counterpoint." I sincerely hope you're being purposefully obtuse and that this kind of argumentation and behavior isn't an indicator of your actual intelligence level. Someone wants a cookie doesn't he? No, I put it there because it made my statement factual instead of it being a complete and total sexist lie. Of course, you have a complete inability to grasp the subtle difference between "everyone all the time" and "most people most of the time," which is probably why you're having so much difficulty and frustration over statements that you perceive to be wildly different than they actually were. Definitely in need of a cookie, here you go. :cookie: PS. You sure took a long time to say absolutely nothing. Looking up big words?
Feredenil 07-25-07, 04:59 PM	Back on the subject... The same girl that wished for a bottle from the genie also later on noticed that the genie was already 'indeed' in a bottle.
Talisman 07-25-07, 05:07 PM	Party of 13th-ish level characters. We've got two fighters, a monk, cleric, wizard, rogue/wizard and rogue. The girl is Fighter #1 (Fighter #2 is my GMPC). The party is fighting some cinder swarms (MM3), an iron golem, and some angels (it was a test...long story). The warrior-types were forming a line for the more fragile characters to cower behind. Fighter #1 takes some damage from a cinder swarm. It was a minor amount...like, 15 hp out of her 80 or 90 hp. She drops out of line, exposing the wizard, and starts demanding healing. Never mind that the cleric was busy buffing the hell out of the party to keep the line from being overrun. They survived, but she never did live that down.
Von_Harbringer 07-25-07, 06:03 PM	Good Grief.... I am going to put DnD terms into this post rather than real life. From my point of view everybody is unique in their own way. Do girls act differently than boys? Well duh, of course they do. What bothers me is there is an effort out there to blur the differences. Girls shouldn't act like girls and boys shouldn't act like boys. Some women I wonder if they look in the mirror and hate what they see. Nobody should be ashamed of who they are. If you were born male or female deal with it. If you were born of a certain race. Deal with it. Is racism out there? Of course there is and it will always be. Its when it becomes socially acceptable that we have problems. I doubt anybody on this thread thinks that their sex/race is better than any other. For the DnD example, I have two Living Greyhawk characters. The first is a male chaotic neutral half-orc rogue. Stats Str 16, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 8, Cha 6. He is aware of where he stands on the social ladder. Having an Int of 12 he plays off those stereotypes to his full advantage. He is rude, annoying and obnoxious (most part he's comic relief). People think because he is a half orc he is illiterate and stupid. People underestimate him and he prefers it that way. Why, how better to take advantage of somebody if they don't think you're a threat? The second character is a female human (suel) paladin knight. She isn't a racist, harlot, or stuck up. She accepts other races just fine. She does have high standards though. Believe me a few DMs thought it would be funny to have men hit on my character. For the most part I thanked them for there kindness but her calling in life is for her faith and establishing a good and just suel nation. She despises the Scarlet Brotherhood and will expose it for what it is. One of the more memorable moments is on a ship of orcs/half-orcs she did a little profiling (detect evil) because of nature that most orcs have. The captain of the ship saw what she was doing and told her not to do that lest she wants to be killed in her sleep. The half orc captain took a liking to her. He gave her gifts and asked if she would wear a dress. It was a nice courtier's outfit and as long as it wasn't trampy she wore it. She (and the party) had dinner with the captain. He made a few advances to her and she politely told him that their lives are too different. She did commend him for giving the crew a purpose in life. She did make a warning to the others to look but not touch, else she would chop off their hand. The captain liked that and assured her that she was under his protection. I hope that everybody liked those stories. :)
TheAnthroDM 07-25-07, 06:06 PM	Good Grief.... I am going to put DnD terms into this post rather than real life. From my point of view everybody is unique in their own way. Do girls act differently than boys? Well duh, of course they do. What bothers me is there is an effort out there to blur the differences. Girls shouldn't act like girls and boys shouldn't act like boys. Some women I wonder if they look in the mirror and hate what they see. Nobody should be ashamed of who they are. If you were born male or female deal with it. *raises an eyebrow* So many things I could say... so... many.... but... no. I'll simply say this, stop encouraging people to be stereotypes. KTHX. "Boys should act like boys and girls should act likes girls!" my ***
UltimateReality 07-25-07, 06:14 PM	Earth was being invaded by aliens who were basically walking purple lobsters that injected egg sacks into you when then got you with their pincers. These eggs killed and reanimated the host body into zombies that got themselves destroyed so the larvae could escape. ANYWAYS. The only girl in our game was playing a medic. At one point, during our briefing as to what the **** these things were, she went on this huge discussion with the brass trying to figure out WHY they were attacking, what their society was like, what their behaviour and thought patterns were, what their reasoning behind this was...Oh, she was probably looking for a weakness to exploit. I throw oddball questions my DM's way for this purpose all the time. The better you know your enemy, etc. P.S. What kind of paper did you use my printer always has a problem when I try to use construction paper and, well mostly I want to know if their is another kind of colored paper incase I decide to try it?If you go to your local office supply store they should be able to point you in the right direction. As for what girls did in my game? Nothing, because I never gamed with women under 18.
Von_Harbringer 07-25-07, 06:19 PM	I'll simply say this, stop encouraging people to be stereotypes. KTHX. "Boys should act like boys and girls should act likes girls!" my *** People can choose to be what they want to be. I do not pretend to be something that I am not. I accept who I am. In the long run what other people think of me doesn't matter. Those who truly know me accept me. I don't apologize for being a man, white, Christian, DnD player, Libertarian, etc, etc. I live my life to be an example for others. I do not tell other people how to think and act. Who am I to tell a boy that it's not right to be competitive? Who am I to tell a girl that it's wrong to play with dolls because she wants to be a mother someday? Parents should guide their children, not some fictional pop culture/preconceived ideal of what men and women are suppose to be like. I truly despise the war of the sexes.
TheAnthroDM 07-25-07, 06:23 PM	People can choose to be what they want to be. I do not pretend to be something that I am not. I accept who I am. In the long run what other people think of me doesn't matter. Those who truly know me accept me. I don't apologize for being a man, white, Christian, DnD player, Libertarian, etc, etc. I live my life to be an example for others. I do not tell other people how to think and act. Who am I to tell a boy that it's not right to be competitive? Who am I to tell a girl that it's wrong to play with dolls because she wants to be a mother someday? Parents should guide their children, not some fictional pop culture/preconceived ideal of what men and women are suppose to be like. I truly despise the war of the sexes. *facepaws* Nope... not even going to respond... not even going to try... there's no point.
Erato 07-25-07, 06:37 PM	Who am I to tell a boy that it's not right to be competitive? Who am I to tell a girl that it's wrong to play with dolls because she wants to be a mother someday? Who are to tell a girl that it's not right to be competitive? Who are you to tell a boy that it's wrong to play with dolls because he wants to be a father someday? I am me. I didn't always understand gender roles when I was a child, so I accidentally became better at math than any boy in my class, and I never learned to walk in high heels. When I'm with girls, they sometimes comment that I'm a bit masculine, and when I'm with guys, they often accuse me of seeing everything only from a girl's perspective. I am me. The point of this thread seems to be to collect stories of stupid things GIRLS (not girls) did, in order to either confirm people's prejudices, or make up some new ones to laught at. The things that has been told here could have happened with a male player, but because it's presented as something GIRLS did, we female gamers will have to suffer for it. I experienced this once a gamer brought his girlfriend to our game. In a matter of months the boys had us confused. I was accused of always playing a certain type of roles (that she played), and I quickly learned that if she annoyed some of the guys, they'd start getting hostile towards me. People generalize. Male gamers generalize female gamers to the extreme. Even if you oppose the stereotype nine out of ten times, it will always be that one out of ten that people remember. I want to be me, and if the collection of stupidity that make up this thread is supposed to have anything to do with me, just because I'm a GIRL, I will have to presume myself unwanted in the D&D community.
Talisman 07-25-07, 06:53 PM	The point of this thread seems to be to collect stories of stupid things GIRLS (not girls) did, in order to either confirm people's prejudices, or make up some new ones to laught at. The things that has been told here could have happened with a male player, but because it's presented as something GIRLS did, we female gamers will have to suffer for it. It's no different than the threads like "Dumbest Campaign Idea" or "Your Most Embarassing GM Moment." As you've mentioned, girls are different from boys (or, if you must, women are different from men), In those differences lie humor, and it cuts both ways. I can't speak for anyone here but me, but my purpose in posting was to share a humorous story that happened to be about a female gamer. For the record, my (more numerous) male gaming companions have made many more, many worse decision than this woman did. The women I have gamed with have almost universally improved the experience, rather than vice versa. I want to be me, and if the collection of stupidity that make up this thread is supposed to have anything to do with me, just because I'm a GIRL, I will have to presume myself unwanted in the D&D community. If I have offended, I do most sincerely apologize. But at the same time, if you can't accept a little humor in the "girls and boys are different" vein...then I feel sorry for you. Mature, enthusiastic gamers are always welcome at my table, regardless of gender or orientation.
TheAnthroDM 07-25-07, 06:55 PM	Who are to tell a girl that it's not right to be competitive? Who are you to tell a boy that it's wrong to play with dolls because he wants to be a father someday? I am me. I didn't always understand gender roles when I was a child, so I accidentally became better at math than any boy in my class, and I never learned to walk in high heels. When I'm with girls, they sometimes comment that I'm a bit masculine, and when I'm with guys, they often accuse me of seeing everything only from a girl's perspective. I am me. The point of this thread seems to be to collect stories of stupid things GIRLS (not girls) did, in order to either confirm people's prejudices, or make up some new ones to laught at. The things that has been told here could have happened with a male player, but because it's presented as something GIRLS did, we female gamers will have to suffer for it. I experienced this once a gamer brought his girlfriend to our game. In a matter of months the boys had us confused. I was accused of always playing a certain type of roles (that she played), and I quickly learned that if she annoyed some of the guys, they'd start getting hostile towards me. People generalize. Male gamers generalize female gamers to the extreme. Even if you oppose the stereotype nine out of ten times, it will always be that one out of ten that people remember. I want to be me, and if the collection of stupidity that make up this thread is supposed to have anything to do with me, just because I'm a GIRL, I will have to presume myself unwanted in the D&D community. :clap: Well said.
TheAnthroDM 07-25-07, 06:57 PM	If I have offended, I do most sincerely apologize. But at the same time, if you can't accept a little humor in the "girls and boys are different" vein...then I feel sorry for you. Mature, enthusiastic gamers are always welcome at my table, regardless of gender or orientation. That would be wonderful. Except for the fact this is not humor on the differences between gender, it's humor used to put down women. And with all the responses you've gotten, whether it was your intention or not, you can't deny that. (Well you could, but it would make to a person of staggering intellect)
StSteven 07-25-07, 07:03 PM	Last time I played with girls in the group... and this is a true story... They lost interest in the game and started making out with each other. Now before you say... YOU LIE!!! One was my girlfriend, I was very distraught by this and we broke up three days later. My wife can't figure out why you broke up with her...neither can I.
High Octane 07-25-07, 07:10 PM	First off I think that everyone has a right to be how they want to be, but thats not what the guy was saying, what he WAS saying wasnt that men were afraid to be womanish, he was saying that men were afraid to be men. Moreover, women are afraid to be girly. This is the unfortunate side effect of rampant stereotypes that irritate people, and they are unwilling to act naturally for fear of perpetuating such a stereotype.
TheAnthroDM 07-25-07, 07:17 PM	First off I think that everyone has a right to be how they want to be, but thats not what the guy was saying, what he WAS saying wasnt that men were afraid to be womanish, he was saying that men were afraid to be men. Moreover, women are afraid to be girly. This is the unfortunate side effect of rampant stereotypes that irritate people, and they are unwilling to act naturally for fear of perpetuating such a stereotype. Untrue, the thing you are describing happens to a very rare occurance to the grand scheme of society.
Talisman 07-25-07, 07:40 PM	And with all the responses you've gotten, whether it was your intention or not, you can't deny that. (Well you could, but it would make to a person of staggering intellect) I'd just like to point out that I am not the OP. I have posted in this thread three times: to share what I thought was a humorous anecdote, to apologize to Erato if I had offended her, and just now. I've gamed with three women in my career. One was one of the best gamers I've ever met. One disappeared after two sessions (RL stuff came up). The last was new to 3rd Ed; she's the one I mentioned above. I've also gamed with numerous women at Gen Con; they have generally been the best RP'ers at the table. My intention was not to insult women in any way. However, I'm not apologizing for the actions of others who happen to share my gender.
Alyss 07-25-07, 07:48 PM	I had a girl play D&D with me once. She sucked. She couldn't understand any of the rules, could roleplay, and couldn't read any of the maps. Consequently, sh went down the wrong passage and could spit-roasted by a dragon and a minotaur. Ouch. She was playing an elf ranger, and spent most of her skill points on Profession (slag), Craft (daisy chains) and Perform (lap dance). She got tired quickly and wanted to go home, but me and the rest of the guys forced her to keep playing for another two hours. The kitchen was a complete mess by the end of it. Yuck.
HerbalTea 07-25-07, 07:56 PM	Never EVER had a female player. It could be that there are six fat, balding middle aged men (including yours truly) with no sense of direction sweating over the table and over each other on whether that character "would have said that" or whether "that provoked an Aoo or not". However, these six fat, balding middle aged men have not seen the outside world for about 20 odd years, so if a girl entered the room, she would probably be thrown into the cookie bowl and eaten shortly afterwards...since we have forgotten that other humans actually exist in the real world and eat everything that isn't on the gaming table. No sexism intended, we love you female gender people-things really! I'm supposed to be married after all!
TheAnthroDM 07-25-07, 08:00 PM	I'd just like to point out that I am not the OP. I have posted in this thread three times: to share what I thought was a humorous anecdote, to apologize to Erato if I had offended her, and just now. I've gamed with three women in my career. One was one of the best gamers I've ever met. One disappeared after two sessions (RL stuff came up). The last was new to 3rd Ed; she's the one I mentioned above. I've also gamed with numerous women at Gen Con; they have generally been the best RP'ers at the table. My intention was not to insult women in any way. However, I'm not apologizing for the actions of others who happen to share my gender. Sorry, I was mixing up the threads I was monitoring. My mistake.
Erato 07-25-07, 08:32 PM	It's no different than the threads like "Dumbest Campaign Idea" or "Your Most Embarassing GM Moment." As you've mentioned, girls are different from boys (or, if you must, women are different from men), In those differences lie humor, and it cuts both ways. Actually, when it comes to personality (as opposed to physique), males are statistically different from females. There's an important difference. Why do you think such things as the Stormwind Fallacy exists, if not to say: “Just because someone happens to have one trait does not mean they automatically have another trait too”. And aren't optimizers upset when people are trying to imply that they are somehow inclined to be inferior roleplayers because of it? And isn't gender discrimination a little more serious and potentially hurtful (and therefore warranting a more agitated reaction) than differences in gaming style? I can't speak for anyone here but me, but my purpose in posting was to share a humorous story that happened to be about a female gamer. For the record, my (more numerous) male gaming companions have made many more, many worse decision than this woman did. The women I have gamed with have almost universally improved the experience, rather than vice versa. But is it important that the funny story contained a woman? And if it is, there should also be a thread about funny things concerning boys. In fact, since the funny stories about boys outnumber the ones about girls, there should be more, and it should come up more often. There isn't, and it doesn't. Let me share a conversation I had with a boy about this: Him: “You get upset too easily. We're not as sexist as you think.” Me: “Because you only make a joke about girls, criticize females, or make generalizations about women about two times per hour, and that's not enough to warrant such a strong reaction from me, right?” Him: “Right!” Me: “And it never occurred to you that since there are at least 6 boys present every time we game, and they all act like you, I get to hear a generalization or a complaint about my gender once every fifth minute? And get to hear five guys agree with it every time?” Him: “...” Me: “Thought so." It's not that it happens, it's that it always happens. (and that more people than you think can't seperate humor from reality). If I have offended, I do most sincerely apologize. But at the same time, if you can't accept a little humor in the "girls and boys are different" vein...then I feel sorry for you. Mature, enthusiastic gamers are always welcome at my table, regardless of gender or orientation. It's not the humor, it's the sheer amount of gender-specific threads! :rant: It's everything, from the innocent: “Did I mention the player was a GIRL?” in the end of a post, or the offensive: “And this only happens because GIRLS are illogical (= doesn't act like I expect)”, to the many: “Is there a connection between GIRLS and <insert behavior, class, race, ect.>?”. Not to mention the many claims that it's not real D&D unless females are discriminated against (preferably in a way that contains sexual abuse and modern language - because that's what the 'authentic' Dark Ages were like :rolleyes: ), while at the same time ignoring classicism (according to these guys, it's more realistic for a male peasant to get to rule a country than an actual queen), hygiene and malnutrition (the barmaids are always waaaay too hot for that), and the fact that this is, in fact, FANTASY! :mad: And then there are threads like: “Stats for women (so we can give them penalties)” (rarely: “Stats for different genders” and never: “Stats for men”, because, apparently, men are the norm, women are variations), “Can you be good and beat your wife?” (not even having the decency to make it: “Can you be good and beat your spouse”), or simply: “Men are better than women” :rolleyes: Then there are all the 'mature' posts about rape monsters/gods/drugs/spells, and always with the extra paragraph: “This <insert monster/god/drug/spell> is only interested in/made to specifically abuse and humiliate females, males are immune to this horrible experience. Males who come into contact with <insert monster/god/drug/spell> instead become very strong and obsessed with the sexual abuse and humiliation of females”. Some random comments about how girls really are, also deserves special mentioning, including how they're all backstabbing *****es who secretly hate each other and only spend time with each other in order to gossip about the girls not currently present (unlike the stoic, noble, and just men, who're always honest and fair), how they're genetically flawed, how they are sorry creatures who deserve pity and kindness from the 'strong' men, and how they should learn not to demand special treatment (and be more like the stoic, noble, and just men, who have never ever demanded, or gotten, special treatment). Ironically, the last comment was in answer to a boy who thought women should sometimes be given special treatment (from 'strong' men), but despite this, the comment was directed at GIRLS, even if no girl had ever said anything like that in the thread. And believe me, if a girl had made a thread/comment like one of the above, only with GUYS instead of GIRLS, there would be ten times the amount of guys flaming her for it :rolleyes: And finally, there are the cultural differences, like using words like **** about girls who have 'too much' sex, and other stuff expressing double standards for men and women, like it was a universal fact that a girl's (but not a guy's) worth is always exclusively determined by who, and how many she has slept with. Sometimes I am tempted to believe that if I had my genitals surgically removed, many of these people would start addressing them instead of the rest of me, because apparently my genitals (and what I use them for) are more important than any of my other features :rolleyes: (if I am to judge based on how often it's mentioned). I don't mind the occasional humor, but when it comes to pointing out the differences between the sexes (real or imagined), guys on these boards don't do it occasionally, they do it excessively. And most of the time, they don't even notice.
KillerGM 07-25-07, 08:46 PM	Actually, when it comes to personality (as opposed to physique), males are statistically different from females. There's an important difference. Why do you think such things as the Stormwind Fallacy exists, if not to say: “Just because someone happens to have one trait does not mean they automatically have another trait too”. And aren't optimizers upset when people are trying to imply that they are somehow inclined to be inferior roleplayers because of it? And isn't gender discrimination a little more serious and potentially hurtful (and therefore warranting a more agitated reaction) than differences in gaming style? But is it important that the funny story contained a woman? And if it is, there should also be a thread about funny things concerning boys. In fact, since the funny stories about boys outnumber the ones about girls, there should be more, and it should come up more often. There isn't, and it doesn't. Let me share a conversation I had with a boy about this: Him: “You get upset too easily. We're not as sexist as you think.” Me: “Because you only make a joke about girls, criticize females, or make generalizations about women about two times per hour, and that's not enough to warrant such a strong reaction from me, right?” Him: “Right!” Me: “And it never occurred to you that since there are at least 6 boys present every time we game, and they all act like you, I get to hear a generalization or a complaint about my gender once every fifth minute? And get to hear five guys agree with it every time?” Him: “...” Me: “Thought so." It's not that it happens, it's that it always happens. (and that more people than you think can't seperate humor from reality). It's not the humor, it's the sheer amount of gender-specific threads! :rant: It's everything, from the innocent: “Did I mention the player was a GIRL?” in the end of a post, or the offensive: “And this only happens because GIRLS are illogical (= doesn't act like I expect)”, to the many: “Is there a connection between GIRLS and <insert behavior, class, race, ect.>?”. Not to mention the many claims that it's not real D&D unless females are discriminated against (preferably in a way that contains sexual abuse and modern language - because that's what the 'authentic' Dark Ages were like :rolleyes: ), while at the same time ignoring classicism (according to these guys, it's more realistic for a male peasant to get to rule a country than an actual queen), hygiene and malnutrition (the barmaids are always waaaay too hot for that), and the fact that this is, in fact, FANTASY! :mad: And then there are threads like: “Stats for women (so we can give them penalties)” (rarely: “Stats for different genders” and never: “Stats for men”, because, apparently, men are the norm, women are variations), “Can you be good and beat your wife?” (not even having the decency to make it: “Can you be good and beat your spouse”), or simply: “Men are better than women” :rolleyes: Then there are all the 'mature' posts about rape monsters/gods/drugs/spells, and always with the extra paragraph: “This <insert monster/god/drug/spell> is only interested in/made to specifically abuse and humiliate females, males are immune to this horrible experience. Males who come into contact with <insert monster/god/drug/spell> instead become very strong and obsessed with the sexual abuse and humiliation of females”. Some random comments about how girls really are, also deserves special mentioning, including how they're all backstabbing *****es who secretly hate each other and only spend time with each other in order to gossip about the girls not currently present (unlike the stoic, noble, and just men, who're always honest and fair), how they're genetically flawed, how they are sorry creatures who deserve pity and kindness from the 'strong' men, and how they should learn not to demand special treatment (and be more like the stoic, noble, and just men, who have never ever demanded, or gotten, special treatment). Ironically, the last comment was in answer to a boy who thought women should sometimes be given special treatment (from 'strong' men), but despite this, the comment was directed at GIRLS, even if no girl had ever said anything like that in the thread. And believe me, if a girl had made a thread/comment like one of the above, only with GUYS instead of GIRLS, there would be ten times the amount of guys flaming her for it :rolleyes: And finally, there are the cultural differences, like using words like **** about girls who have 'too much' sex, and other stuff expressing double standards for men and women, like it was a universal fact that a girl's (but not a guy's) worth is always exclusively determined by who, and how many she has slept with. Sometimes I am tempted to believe that if I had my genitals surgically removed, many of these people would start addressing them instead of the rest of me, because apparently my genitals (and what I use them for) are more important than any of my other features :rolleyes: (if I am to judge based on how often it's mentioned). I don't mind the occasional humor, but when it comes to pointing out the differences between the sexes (real or imagined), guys on these boards don't do it occasionally, they do it excessively. And most of the time, they don't even notice. I love that post so much I want to leave my husband for it, marry it, and make little baby posts with it. (Yes, I've been watching way too much Scrubs lately). You rawk, Erato. And yes, I had to quote it to let people read it again. :D
Erato 07-25-07, 08:59 PM	Thank you KillerDM, I'm glad it was useful :) This subject has nagged me for a while. Mind if I put your comment in my sig? Provided I ever decide to get a sig (and an ego-pad) ;)
Talisman 07-25-07, 09:02 PM	I think you're overreacting...but of course, I'm not you, and I haven't had your experiences. To reiterate: my intent was never to insult or degrade women (or men!) in any way. I stand by all my posts and all my behavior at the gaming table, and I treat the women I game with exactly the same way as I treat the men. I shan't deny that the things you mentioned do occur, and I am not for a second defending "rape-monsters" or similar stupidities; however, there is such a thing as harmless fun. Casual joking about men or women is often not intended in a negative way; if it's juvenile, well, sometimes men are juvenile. It doesn't mean we're misogynists. Not to mention the many claims that it's not real D&D unless females are discriminated against (preferably in a way that contains sexual abuse and modern language - because that's what the 'authentic' Dark Ages were like ), while at the same time ignoring classicism (according to these guys, it's more realistic for a male peasant to get to rule a country than an actual queen), hygiene and malnutrition (the barmaids are always waaaay too hot for that), and the fact that this is, in fact, FANTASY! I find these types of campaigns to be ridiculous. It's one thing to make reference to the Evil Empire of Evilness and how they enslave the women as a way to show how Evil they are, but outright discrimination is even more stupid in D&D than in RL, since in D&D the group can literally change the world. That being said, I don't really see a problem if most of the town guards are male. Men are generally more aggressive than women, and even given identical opportunities, more men will elect to take a dangerous, combat-oriented job than will women. It's not discrimination; it's just how the sexes are wired.
KillerGM 07-25-07, 09:03 PM	Thank you KillerDM, I'm glad it was useful :) This subject has nagged me for a while. Mind if I put your comment in my sig? Provided I ever decide to get a sig (and an ego-pad) ;) Sig away. :D
High Octane 07-25-07, 09:22 PM	stuff You think males are never made fun of? I'm sorry, but you seriously haven't seen ANY comedian talking about genders before. Men make fun of their own as often as they do women. So you don't have to go around attempting to castrate us. The reason man has become the norm in our language is because of habit. You are essentially saying that using the masculine pronoun is in fact a sexist move. Sorry, but it doesn't actually mean anything. Now immature is immature. I will not deny that there are plenty of immature males out there who act like testosterone sacks without a brain that make wildly sexist remarks for kicks. Well the reason that happens is, they are ATTEMPTING to be offensive. They do it for the same reason they drop F bombs and such. And here you are screaming about the misuse of pronouns since there isn't enough "Shes" in the messages. Do you expect us to spellcheck everything to make sure that he and she are alternated equally and thus have 50% he and 50% she? Ever considered male D&D players outnumber female and thus he is used because the person in question is a male? "He" is the general term because it is one letter shorter and is easier to type out then a gender neutral pronoun (the person, he/she) other than "it" and referring to someone as "it" is generally considered derogatory. As for the "beat your wife" comment, well maybe the character in question WAS A MALE and theres the fact that you rarely hear about females physically abusing their husbands (though it happens) even though it does happen. Are you seriously asking for women to be considered equals in the arena of physical abuse in popular media and culture? As for all those threads taking about women being conniving or backstabbing or whatever the guy decides to ramble on about, that thread was made because the person is either bitter because of a recent girl breaking something up, or has only ever met bad gaming girls. Stop lumping us in with that jackass! Stop expecting us to be politically correct with every post we make and accept that the use of a male pronoun is not about sexism, it's about simplicity. When "it" becomes a widely acceptable pronoun to describe a PERSON then I will use that. Until then, he unless otherwise stated.
Talisman 07-25-07, 09:30 PM	Stop lumping us in with that jackass! Stop expecting us to be politically correct with every post we make and accept that the use of a male pronoun is not about sexism, it's about simplicity. :thumbsup:
KillerGM 07-25-07, 09:40 PM	Ok, I've already broken my own rule about posting more than twice in a thread, so whatever. First, I'm not lumping anyone in with anything - that's exactly the opposite of what I'm talking about. I am not saying "all guys are asshats" or that no one need use the pronoun "he" (and I really don't think Erato was, either). I (and I think some of the other posters) were expressing that we see this thread as offensive, because it incorrectly draws an incorrect correlation between someone's gender and their playing behavior. Here's an illustration of *my* problem with the very concept of this thread: In my DM life, I played with 3 blacks and they all made something special..or stupid in the game. 1.DM : So you are all in the Shop and Tavern district of the great city of Anabilis. The place is made of polish stone making a great circle around a fountain that represent dolphin. Where are you? Black Paladin : Im in the fountain taking a bath... 2. Black Human Barbarian : Why do we fighting those orc, maybe they attacked the village to take back their eggs? 3. Black: So...what elves looks like? Me: You remember Legolas in Lord of the Ring. Played by Orlando Blo.. Black: IM PLAYING A ELF!!! PS : No racist joke and comment please. Much DM knows that blacks are very original and useful in tacting and roleplaying scene....some times :D Offended yet? How fast do you think a thread titled "101 things BLACKS did in your game" would get locked? I'm half-tempted to start one, but I'm not *that* disruptive. ;)
High Octane 07-25-07, 10:05 PM	I will ask you, very nicely, if you edit a person's post well beyond what they originally said, do not use their original name in the quotation. I do not want matrix getting in trouble because you wanted to make a point. Your point has some validity, I will admit, that it was a somewhat offensive and seemingly derogatory if not condescending post. However, not only are you talking about everyone who has posted since, but you are carrying your speech well outside the bounds of this original poster and talking about threads all around this and I assume other forums. You weren't making a post, you were making some sort of speech that offended me. Here is a question, what if the post asked about "Your experiences with females in D&D and gaming" would you find that offensive? After all to say that women and men share the exact same tendencies is ignorant at best, dillusional (sic) at worst. Boys and girls are different, mentally and physically, on a level much higher than any racial differences could ever begin to be compared to. I say tendencies, not absolutes. The individual will overpowers any sort of tendency. Since that original post, people have been talking about their experiences with the other gender. That being, males have been talking about females they play with and females have been talking about themselves and how males treat them. The funny fact is, the males did not turn this thread into a hate war. You did. Edit: And by YOU I mean you individually. I'm guessing your first thought was that I was referring to women.
Kaligrad 07-25-07, 10:47 PM	It was the monkeys what did it! Damn dirty apes!! :ERROR MONKEY SMILIE NOT FOUND: Seriously though, lighten up. Things are never as bad as they are on the internet.
Zephania 07-25-07, 10:47 PM	I have one girl in my game that I DM...when we were starting, everyone was rolling their characters, and none had met her before. And so she was kinda quiet, rolling up a ranger...and, out of no where, smashed her fist on the table and said "I'M GOING TO RIDE A @%#$'N RHINO!". Now, she is a very small girl, about 5 foot, 85 lb. This is also the first thing many of the players in the party had ever heard her say. Yes, she did eventually get a Rhino, the warbeast one listed in MMII. His name is Thor, and he has saved the party many times.
KillerGM 07-25-07, 10:49 PM	I will ask you, very nicely, if you edit a person's post well beyond what they originally said, do not use their original name in the quotation. I do not want matrix getting in trouble because you wanted to make a point. Why should I edit it? If that post would get the OP in trouble, then the original post should as well. Besides, the mods here are more observant than that. If they had a problem with the racist post I edited it to be, they'd come after me, not matrix_king3. Though I will make note that I edited it, so that the people with less than half a brain who just read my post don't think matrix_king3 posted it. :) Your point has some validity, I will admit, that it was a somewhat offensive and seemingly derogatory if not condescending post. However, not only are you talking about everyone who has posted since, but you are carrying your speech well outside the bounds of this original poster and talking about threads all around this and I assume other forums. You weren't making a post, you were making some sort of speech that offended me. Here is a question, what if the post asked about "Your experiences with females in D&D and gaming" would you find that offensive? After all to say that women and men share the exact same tendencies is ignorant at best, dillusional (sic) at worst. Boys and girls are different, mentally and physically, on a level much higher than any racial differences could ever begin to be compared to. I say tendencies, not absolutes. The individual will overpowers any sort of tendency. Since that original post, people have been talking about their experiences with the other gender. That being, males have been talking about females they play with and females have been talking about themselves and how males treat them. The funny fact is, the males did not turn this thread into a hate war. You did. Edit: And by YOU I mean you individually. I'm guessing your first thought was that I was referring to women. I would be offended if it said "101 great things girls did in your game" or "What are your experiences with female gamers". Because it makes it sound like women who game are some exotic species that dictate different experiences than those with any other type of male ("default") gamer. I didn't say that it was a hate war. I don't even think anyone in this thread is particularly hateful, mostly just unaware. And I didn't assume you were saying "women" made it a hate war. Though I don't think I made it a hate war, and I know I wasn't the first poster to indicate opposition to the concept of this thread. I said the topic is, at its base, alienating and offensive because it singles out women as "other" than gamers. And, if you read the other posts, I was not the first to post opposition to the concept of this topic. Other posters were doing rather well at that before I jumped in. :P It's not that boys and girls are different, it's that people are different. I'd have no problem with the thread if it were "101 things players have done in your game". But the fact that it has to be divided on gender bothers me. And, you know what, I don't think it's delusional to think that women and men aren't any more different than people of different races. Physiologically, people of different races are different, and so are the different sexes. People of different races have different sociological experiences/expectations put upon them, just like men and women have different sociological experiences/expectations put upon them. Basically, everyone acts differently. It's not some mystical connection between their reproductive organs and their behavior. Gender shouldn't be an issue when discussing behavior at the gaming table, just as race shouldn't. To me, it's the same thing. Equally offensive.
WizO_Cat 07-25-07, 11:24 PM	Ok, I'm going to close the thread at this time. Usually, these threads end up in sexist stereotypes, and this thread really is starting to meander that way.