101 Ways to Keep a BBEG Alive W/O Upsetting your Players [Archive] - Wizards Community

101 Ways to Keep a BBEG Alive W/O Upsetting your Players [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Teh Lurv
11-13-03, 03:51 PM I originally came up with an idea for this thread from here:
http://http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=131436

Now I think we have all heard of players or been in groups where the DM keep the BBEG from being killed prematurely using the lamest Deus Ex Machina methods imaginable.

The purpose of this thread is to list good ideas for DMs to use to keep their BBEGs alive until they serve their purposes in the campaign.

Here are some suggestions to get the ball rolling:

[list= 1]
The most obvious suggestion: Have underlings bring his messages/do his dirty work for him!
If the BBEG must address the PCs, have him appear through illusions.
If the badguys captured the party, he or she should take precautions before speaking with the players. Getting rid of weapons and armor, putting anti-magic manicles on the spellcasters, etc.
Have your BBEG create construct look-alikes to parley with PCs. Players will begin wondering which BBEG is real and which is an imitation.
Give your BBEG options for a quick getaway: A ring of spell storing with a teleport, a hidden door behind the curtain of his inner sanctum, a potion of invisibility, a smokebomb, all these are useful for helping your BBEG get away.
Do what Manshoon and Thrawn did: Have your BBEG keep clones of himself in case he or she meets an untimely demise.
If the players leave the BBEG's body lying around, have a trusted underling perform a resurrection or lich creation ritual on the body.
[/list= 1]
Kalidor
11-13-03, 04:32 PM I wanted to reply to this topic so you wouldn't think it was being ignored. I don't know how many replies you're going to get (or I'm just not that creative :p)

You covered all the best methods really, and I'd be hardpressed to think up something different or better.

I'll be sure and put your ideas to use though.

About the only thing I can think of is this

8. Have the characters meet with the BBEG in some formal setting, such as a dinner or a ball. Make it clear the room is lined with wall to wall guards and that any attempt on the BBEG's life will be met with a swift reaction from his platoon of forces. IE: If he dies, so do you.

Most players will be smart enough to say "Oh my.. he's so close I could kill him, but to do so would be a death sentence because I can't defeat all 50 of his 12th level Knights!"
ThoughtfulOwl
11-13-03, 04:48 PM 9. Instead of the classical BBEG, use an actual party. Not only thay pose a more complex challenge, but as long as at least one of them manages to escape to fight another day, the "BBEG" hasn't been defeated.

10. Put the BBEG in a position of prestige and political power. Even if the PCs know he is the bad guy, fear of retribution from the society at large will keep them from getting rid of him until they can discredit him first (i.e. until the plot allows his demise).

11. As the previous, but have him being essential to keep some worse evil at bay.

12. Have him stay behind the scene, always interacting with dominated puppets (or possessed, for some ghosts and demons).

13. After his demise, have an ambitious underling take the identity of the BBEG. Ok, the BBEG is still dead, but this will keep the players wondering.

14. Have the BBEG being an invulnerable creature (or just far stronger than the PCs); the PCs won't be able to defeat him until they discover his Achilles' heel (again, according to the plot).

[Edit: Oops, beaten by Kalidor. Got to change some numbers :D )
ikkonoishi
11-13-03, 05:11 PM 15.
Have the an NPC explain to the players about rings that the BBEG makes them wear (Customized Friend Shield) that makes any attacks on him hurt them instead.

Also spells that would instantly kill him instead affect a random NPC.

The rings are cursed and cannot be removed until the PCs find <INSERT PLOT DEVICE>.

Effectively increases the BBEG's HP by a few thousand.

Also it give the PCs a large number of people that they can't really fight against (unless they are evil) that want to stop them from attacking the BBEG.
Voran
11-13-03, 06:10 PM Originally posted by ThoughtfulOwl
9. Instead of the classical BBEG, use an actual party. Not only thay pose a more complex challenge, but as long as at least one of them manages to escape to fight another day, the "BBEG" hasn't been defeated.

This is a popular choice. But be careful with it, since its really easy to make a BBEG-party that is too powerful offensively and defensively, especially when you already know the capabilities of the player-group.

or to balance them out, kinda make them like the Legion of Doom (DC comics), collectively they are powerful, but individually they don't necessarially get along well with each other and can only present an overall unified front in the face of adversity for limited stretches. The key to beating them would be to play them off each other, or split them up and take them in fragments.

16. Make the BBEG a SPECTRE type agency/large group. BBEG the party just whacked was a baddy, but technically, he was only Agent #32. Or somesuch.
magic wyrm
11-13-03, 07:30 PM easy, BBEG has multiple bodies
Pennywise
11-13-03, 07:58 PM 18. The BBEG is a Lich. Sure, you smited him, but he's currently reforming in an extremely out of the way place that was made for such an occasion.
split infinitude
11-13-03, 08:16 PM Cool topic, good suggestions. I'd say the issue is delaying the dieing, not preventing it altogether.

20. The BBEG is a deluded/tricked/drugged Paladin or other obviously good person.

21. When the BBEG dies, so does the PC's mother/father/husband/wife/child/etc.

22. Contingency (teleport). Works sometimes.

23. BBEG is just too powerful . . . for now.

24. BBEG can only be killed with the Blessed Holy Mace of St. Cuthbert's Doom, and You Don't Have It. Bwa, ha, ha.

256. Here comes the BBEG's evil twin! OK, I wouldn't use that one.
Mock26
11-13-03, 08:53 PM I found this website a couple of years ago. It is quite similar to this thread, but is a comedy website. Check it out:

http://www.eviloverlord.com/lists/overlord.html

Meanwhile, I love equipping powerful foes (who I want to be able to get away) with a magic item of my own creation: potion of teleportation. It has a very high success rate, and it gives the group something to drool after! You should have seen their faces the first time they saw this potion in action! It was like a bunch of little kids in a candy store with 50-dollar bills in their hands.

Take care and have a great day....

ciao,
john.
Neonsamurai
11-14-03, 04:39 AM 26. Any sort of teleportation spells usually work fine, at least the first and second time. Then the party is likely to have a dimensional anchor prepared.

27. Vampire BBEGs are nice if their coffins can only be reached via gaseous form.

28. Dragons can easily escape with their superior flight speed, swim and burrow abilities.
Old Kobold 2
11-14-03, 04:51 AM 29. BBEG is a hivemind built of small animals or vermin. It dies if all of them are killed. If some of them survive, they start attracting others of their kind, eventually reforming the hivemind. Exterminating it would take a lot of effort or use of the Plot Device.
thalious
11-14-03, 05:01 AM 30 Similacrum are useful too.
Mock26
11-14-03, 05:30 AM :bow:

Old Kobold, you are evil! I like it!

31. Have the ghost/spirit of the slain BBEG come back and continue on as if nothing had ever happened. Except, of course, now he REALLY hates the group, and he is even more powerful than before!
Kasmiur
11-14-03, 05:53 AM I always enjoyed the idea that the players dont know who the BBEG is until they hit high levels. Always have underlings work and do your dirty work.
otherwise..

32. Have a underling that the BBEG would trust be wearing a ring of polymorph and change self with high points in disguise. The PC would go in and kill that person and after they loot the body they see it wasnt him really. Also makes them question if the picture or image of the BBEG they have is real or if it was a illusion made up to fool anyone looking for him.
Rabe
11-14-03, 07:09 AM 33. Dont let the party know, that they are meeting the BBEG right now...let them think it is an harmless NPC or minor bad guy (so they dont throw everything at him). In my Greyhawk campaign they "freed" once a "scribe" from a slavers stockade, never noticing he was the missing 9th member of the slaver council. In the end he ended up running the PCs information network where he could much better work his nefarious plots. The players didnt think I was serious when they discovered who the BBEG was.

34. Some trickery like escape hatches are convenient (for the rogue types)

35. Use an organisation as the BBEG instead of an individual, making keeping a single NPC alive obsolete. In the same vein, an Elder Brain of an illithid city makes a perfect villain, as it can use several of the suggestions above.

Rabe
Old Kobold 2
11-14-03, 08:12 AM 36. Secretly decide with one player that they are going to play the BBEG.
37. No BBEG. Everything is a coincidence.
38. Multiple BBEGs. Every BBEG is trying to discredit others and prove that he is innocent. The actual BBEG might or might not be one of those that PCs know about.
39. A twist of multiple BBEGs. Two BBEGs were infused with opposed energies (for example, a positive-energy wielding Cancermage vs. a negative-energy vielding lich) in a single ritual. Weakening one would make the other one stronger. If one is dead, the other is really damn kickass, and trying to beat him would initiate the reformation of the dead one, somewhere far away. The only way to eliminate them is to bring them together and throw one into each other (just how many killing attempts would it take before your players find out about it?). Don't forget to step back from the big boom!
BenjCano
11-14-03, 09:54 AM 40. The villain unseen. A high level Spymaster with a host of cover identities, all working against the PCs in a coordinated, multi directional attack. If they can uncover the identity of one "person" working against them, then the Spymaster ditches that identity and adopts a new one.
Kolo
11-14-03, 10:38 AM 41. If you REALLY want to keep the BBEG alive and the PC's have covered literally everything, use deus ex machina- but let the PC's know that they've struck a serious blow; Maybe the BBEG loses a hand/eye/whatever or is heavily wounded, maybe his most trusted advisor is kiled horribly...
BRJN
11-14-03, 09:30 PM 42) BBEG only comes into the PCs' presence when he has them at his mercy (if he has any ;) ). He enters the far side of the big room, looks them over gloatingly for a minute, then departs. His High-powered Henchman then comes over and does the "I am the Voice of BBEG" thing. Of course, the audience hall is FULL of L1 minions and cannon-fodder slaves up front and the minions are just itching for the chance to pound on the helpless PCs.

If the PCs are coming for him, he always has a secret escape hatch available for use before they get too close. BBEG has always been really big on telling his henchmen to solve the problem (meaning the PCs) and get a promotion from him, so they don't think twice when he drifts off and out the back door.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Teh Lurv 11-13-03, 03:51 PM	I originally came up with an idea for this thread from here: http://http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=131436 Now I think we have all heard of players or been in groups where the DM keep the BBEG from being killed prematurely using the lamest Deus Ex Machina methods imaginable. The purpose of this thread is to list good ideas for DMs to use to keep their BBEGs alive until they serve their purposes in the campaign. Here are some suggestions to get the ball rolling: [list= 1] The most obvious suggestion: Have underlings bring his messages/do his dirty work for him! If the BBEG must address the PCs, have him appear through illusions. If the badguys captured the party, he or she should take precautions before speaking with the players. Getting rid of weapons and armor, putting anti-magic manicles on the spellcasters, etc. Have your BBEG create construct look-alikes to parley with PCs. Players will begin wondering which BBEG is real and which is an imitation. Give your BBEG options for a quick getaway: A ring of spell storing with a teleport, a hidden door behind the curtain of his inner sanctum, a potion of invisibility, a smokebomb, all these are useful for helping your BBEG get away. Do what Manshoon and Thrawn did: Have your BBEG keep clones of himself in case he or she meets an untimely demise. If the players leave the BBEG's body lying around, have a trusted underling perform a resurrection or lich creation ritual on the body. [/list= 1]
Kalidor 11-13-03, 04:32 PM	I wanted to reply to this topic so you wouldn't think it was being ignored. I don't know how many replies you're going to get (or I'm just not that creative :p) You covered all the best methods really, and I'd be hardpressed to think up something different or better. I'll be sure and put your ideas to use though. About the only thing I can think of is this 8. Have the characters meet with the BBEG in some formal setting, such as a dinner or a ball. Make it clear the room is lined with wall to wall guards and that any attempt on the BBEG's life will be met with a swift reaction from his platoon of forces. IE: If he dies, so do you. Most players will be smart enough to say "Oh my.. he's so close I could kill him, but to do so would be a death sentence because I can't defeat all 50 of his 12th level Knights!"
ThoughtfulOwl 11-13-03, 04:48 PM	9. Instead of the classical BBEG, use an actual party. Not only thay pose a more complex challenge, but as long as at least one of them manages to escape to fight another day, the "BBEG" hasn't been defeated. 10. Put the BBEG in a position of prestige and political power. Even if the PCs know he is the bad guy, fear of retribution from the society at large will keep them from getting rid of him until they can discredit him first (i.e. until the plot allows his demise). 11. As the previous, but have him being essential to keep some worse evil at bay. 12. Have him stay behind the scene, always interacting with dominated puppets (or possessed, for some ghosts and demons). 13. After his demise, have an ambitious underling take the identity of the BBEG. Ok, the BBEG is still dead, but this will keep the players wondering. 14. Have the BBEG being an invulnerable creature (or just far stronger than the PCs); the PCs won't be able to defeat him until they discover his Achilles' heel (again, according to the plot). [Edit: Oops, beaten by Kalidor. Got to change some numbers :D )
ikkonoishi 11-13-03, 05:11 PM	15. Have the an NPC explain to the players about rings that the BBEG makes them wear (Customized Friend Shield) that makes any attacks on him hurt them instead. Also spells that would instantly kill him instead affect a random NPC. The rings are cursed and cannot be removed until the PCs find <INSERT PLOT DEVICE>. Effectively increases the BBEG's HP by a few thousand. Also it give the PCs a large number of people that they can't really fight against (unless they are evil) that want to stop them from attacking the BBEG.
Voran 11-13-03, 06:10 PM	Originally posted by ThoughtfulOwl 9. Instead of the classical BBEG, use an actual party. Not only thay pose a more complex challenge, but as long as at least one of them manages to escape to fight another day, the "BBEG" hasn't been defeated. This is a popular choice. But be careful with it, since its really easy to make a BBEG-party that is too powerful offensively and defensively, especially when you already know the capabilities of the player-group. or to balance them out, kinda make them like the Legion of Doom (DC comics), collectively they are powerful, but individually they don't necessarially get along well with each other and can only present an overall unified front in the face of adversity for limited stretches. The key to beating them would be to play them off each other, or split them up and take them in fragments. 16. Make the BBEG a SPECTRE type agency/large group. BBEG the party just whacked was a baddy, but technically, he was only Agent #32. Or somesuch.
magic wyrm 11-13-03, 07:30 PM	easy, BBEG has multiple bodies
Pennywise 11-13-03, 07:58 PM	18. The BBEG is a Lich. Sure, you smited him, but he's currently reforming in an extremely out of the way place that was made for such an occasion.
split infinitude 11-13-03, 08:16 PM	Cool topic, good suggestions. I'd say the issue is delaying the dieing, not preventing it altogether. 20. The BBEG is a deluded/tricked/drugged Paladin or other obviously good person. 21. When the BBEG dies, so does the PC's mother/father/husband/wife/child/etc. 22. Contingency (teleport). Works sometimes. 23. BBEG is just too powerful . . . for now. 24. BBEG can only be killed with the Blessed Holy Mace of St. Cuthbert's Doom, and You Don't Have It. Bwa, ha, ha. 256. Here comes the BBEG's evil twin! OK, I wouldn't use that one.
Mock26 11-13-03, 08:53 PM	I found this website a couple of years ago. It is quite similar to this thread, but is a comedy website. Check it out: http://www.eviloverlord.com/lists/overlord.html Meanwhile, I love equipping powerful foes (who I want to be able to get away) with a magic item of my own creation: potion of teleportation. It has a very high success rate, and it gives the group something to drool after! You should have seen their faces the first time they saw this potion in action! It was like a bunch of little kids in a candy store with 50-dollar bills in their hands. Take care and have a great day.... ciao, john.
Neonsamurai 11-14-03, 04:39 AM	26. Any sort of teleportation spells usually work fine, at least the first and second time. Then the party is likely to have a dimensional anchor prepared. 27. Vampire BBEGs are nice if their coffins can only be reached via gaseous form. 28. Dragons can easily escape with their superior flight speed, swim and burrow abilities.
Old Kobold 2 11-14-03, 04:51 AM	29. BBEG is a hivemind built of small animals or vermin. It dies if all of them are killed. If some of them survive, they start attracting others of their kind, eventually reforming the hivemind. Exterminating it would take a lot of effort or use of the Plot Device.
thalious 11-14-03, 05:01 AM	30 Similacrum are useful too.
Mock26 11-14-03, 05:30 AM	:bow: Old Kobold, you are evil! I like it! 31. Have the ghost/spirit of the slain BBEG come back and continue on as if nothing had ever happened. Except, of course, now he REALLY hates the group, and he is even more powerful than before!
Kasmiur 11-14-03, 05:53 AM	I always enjoyed the idea that the players dont know who the BBEG is until they hit high levels. Always have underlings work and do your dirty work. otherwise.. 32. Have a underling that the BBEG would trust be wearing a ring of polymorph and change self with high points in disguise. The PC would go in and kill that person and after they loot the body they see it wasnt him really. Also makes them question if the picture or image of the BBEG they have is real or if it was a illusion made up to fool anyone looking for him.
Rabe 11-14-03, 07:09 AM	33. Dont let the party know, that they are meeting the BBEG right now...let them think it is an harmless NPC or minor bad guy (so they dont throw everything at him). In my Greyhawk campaign they "freed" once a "scribe" from a slavers stockade, never noticing he was the missing 9th member of the slaver council. In the end he ended up running the PCs information network where he could much better work his nefarious plots. The players didnt think I was serious when they discovered who the BBEG was. 34. Some trickery like escape hatches are convenient (for the rogue types) 35. Use an organisation as the BBEG instead of an individual, making keeping a single NPC alive obsolete. In the same vein, an Elder Brain of an illithid city makes a perfect villain, as it can use several of the suggestions above. Rabe
Old Kobold 2 11-14-03, 08:12 AM	36. Secretly decide with one player that they are going to play the BBEG. 37. No BBEG. Everything is a coincidence. 38. Multiple BBEGs. Every BBEG is trying to discredit others and prove that he is innocent. The actual BBEG might or might not be one of those that PCs know about. 39. A twist of multiple BBEGs. Two BBEGs were infused with opposed energies (for example, a positive-energy wielding Cancermage vs. a negative-energy vielding lich) in a single ritual. Weakening one would make the other one stronger. If one is dead, the other is really damn kickass, and trying to beat him would initiate the reformation of the dead one, somewhere far away. The only way to eliminate them is to bring them together and throw one into each other (just how many killing attempts would it take before your players find out about it?). Don't forget to step back from the big boom!
BenjCano 11-14-03, 09:54 AM	40. The villain unseen. A high level Spymaster with a host of cover identities, all working against the PCs in a coordinated, multi directional attack. If they can uncover the identity of one "person" working against them, then the Spymaster ditches that identity and adopts a new one.
Kolo 11-14-03, 10:38 AM	41. If you REALLY want to keep the BBEG alive and the PC's have covered literally everything, use deus ex machina- but let the PC's know that they've struck a serious blow; Maybe the BBEG loses a hand/eye/whatever or is heavily wounded, maybe his most trusted advisor is kiled horribly...
BRJN 11-14-03, 09:30 PM	42) BBEG only comes into the PCs' presence when he has them at his mercy (if he has any ;) ). He enters the far side of the big room, looks them over gloatingly for a minute, then departs. His High-powered Henchman then comes over and does the "I am the Voice of BBEG" thing. Of course, the audience hall is FULL of L1 minions and cannon-fodder slaves up front and the minions are just itching for the chance to pound on the helpless PCs. If the PCs are coming for him, he always has a secret escape hatch available for use before they get too close. BBEG has always been really big on telling his henchmen to solve the problem (meaning the PCs) and get a promotion from him, so they don't think twice when he drifts off and out the back door.