18th Level Baddies [Archive] - Wizards Community

18th Level Baddies [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
archtemplari
10-16-07, 04:20 AM I'm running a slot at U-Con (look it up, come to it), but i need some help finding enemies for my 18th levels to run up against. They're all pre-crafted, fairly simple (but interesting) characters to keep combat time as quick-moving as possible. The enemy should also follow this trend.

What i need: An second encounter that will seriously strain any party of 4 18th levels (the first is a CR 20), and which can be scaled up if the party grows to 5 or 6. The most obvious way i can think of is to get a "Mastermind" archetype bad guy who can summon/call up some extra help for the larger parties. Problem is, i can't find one that's suitably memorable. I want something really EPIC (i mean, they are 18th level), along with some minions that won't go down in one-two rounds.

Please attempt to limit suggestions to Monster Manuals 1-3. I'm not really concerned about metagaming, so i'd rather players fight somewhat familiar monsters. I'm open to some alternate suggestions, but those books are my preference.
runestar
10-16-07, 04:49 AM What is your first foe?

I am not a big fan of just throwing in the tarrasque at the PCs like that (I would give it some backstory first).

MM1 has the pit fiend (he can bring in 2 horned devils) or the titan (he has gate, use common sense to bring in a suitable ally). Throw in some mid-level mooks to clutter up the battlefield. Alternatively, pluck some random dragon of the appropriate cr.

MM2's crs are wonky, so it is hard to find a suitable challenge for a lv18 party (do any even exist?) MM3 is even more problematic, as it seems to emphasize on low-mid crs, and less so on higher cr foes.

MM5 would be perfect, with the master of the hunt (providing a EL24 encounter with its 4 hunting dogs) and is essentially an all-out slugfest. There is also some cr20 beastie that can cast swift prismatic spray every round. This is the one I would actually recommend. It also has a variant dragon template which replaces their spellcasting with misc abilities, making them run more smoothly.
AlanBruce
10-16-07, 01:32 PM What about a Nathzarune Rakshasa (MM3) with rog10/assn3? That's a CR 23 creature, which should give them a good fight if used well, considering its abilities. Perhaps add a few normal Nathzarunes to distract?
Cantankerous
10-17-07, 03:38 PM It depends on AC. if the party has median to low ACs for their level you can probably get away really cheap here, although the numbers can sound daunting...and are.

You take a large group of allied, but lower level monsters and throw a swarm at them. This can be daunting to DM, but if you're well organized, and for a Con you really need to be well organized anyway, then it can provide a great, highly memorable encounter.

Now, our numbers? 8 CR*11 monsters with an additional 20 CR*5 monsters in support. Our monsters? Troll Hunters, leading regular trolls. This could get hairy, but is legitimately an EL*18 encounter with a classic monster, that if treated right can be a damned scary one. Trolls are intelligent enough to work together as mercenaries, especially if a smart Mastermind type gives them a good reason to and they have decent staying power... especially so many together.

You want Epic? Hows this one for a story?

"Aye, I said there were more than two dozen of them, many of 'em smart, well trained, using the same kind of time tested tactics that the elves themselves were known for, and here was Anthreas on my left, Tyran on my right and Lady Sil at my back and we HAD TO stop them all..."

Trolls have a mystique for many gamers. They're one of those ultimate mid level challenges...singularly... and most people can remember a fight and a half with them as a first encounter with ONE. The idea of taking on more than two dozen...at once, without regard to the level, IS Epic.

Isshia
VulcanStormwrath
10-17-07, 09:49 PM Half Marilith Ogre Fighter 8/Warhulk 4

I can give you her stats if you like.
archtemplari
10-18-07, 04:02 AM I'm not sure about the idea of massive trolls -- i mean, it could be a great idea, but the AC issue is a bit out of my control (i made awesome characters, so the fighter-types do have pretty wonky ACs, and i'm not going to force a party type). I'm sort of playing around with the idea of a Dracolich with some demon/devil/yugoloth captives that it can free at the beginning of the battle. A CR 16-17 dragon and 2-4 of the following: horned devil, ice devil, nalfeshnee, glabrezu...(probably not demons AND devils, that's just asking for trouble, but one or the other). Or maybe an ultraloth with a posse of nycaloths?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
archtemplari 10-16-07, 04:20 AM	I'm running a slot at U-Con (look it up, come to it), but i need some help finding enemies for my 18th levels to run up against. They're all pre-crafted, fairly simple (but interesting) characters to keep combat time as quick-moving as possible. The enemy should also follow this trend. What i need: An second encounter that will seriously strain any party of 4 18th levels (the first is a CR 20), and which can be scaled up if the party grows to 5 or 6. The most obvious way i can think of is to get a "Mastermind" archetype bad guy who can summon/call up some extra help for the larger parties. Problem is, i can't find one that's suitably memorable. I want something really EPIC (i mean, they are 18th level), along with some minions that won't go down in one-two rounds. Please attempt to limit suggestions to Monster Manuals 1-3. I'm not really concerned about metagaming, so i'd rather players fight somewhat familiar monsters. I'm open to some alternate suggestions, but those books are my preference.
runestar 10-16-07, 04:49 AM	What is your first foe? I am not a big fan of just throwing in the tarrasque at the PCs like that (I would give it some backstory first). MM1 has the pit fiend (he can bring in 2 horned devils) or the titan (he has gate, use common sense to bring in a suitable ally). Throw in some mid-level mooks to clutter up the battlefield. Alternatively, pluck some random dragon of the appropriate cr. MM2's crs are wonky, so it is hard to find a suitable challenge for a lv18 party (do any even exist?) MM3 is even more problematic, as it seems to emphasize on low-mid crs, and less so on higher cr foes. MM5 would be perfect, with the master of the hunt (providing a EL24 encounter with its 4 hunting dogs) and is essentially an all-out slugfest. There is also some cr20 beastie that can cast swift prismatic spray every round. This is the one I would actually recommend. It also has a variant dragon template which replaces their spellcasting with misc abilities, making them run more smoothly.
AlanBruce 10-16-07, 01:32 PM	What about a Nathzarune Rakshasa (MM3) with rog10/assn3? That's a CR 23 creature, which should give them a good fight if used well, considering its abilities. Perhaps add a few normal Nathzarunes to distract?
Cantankerous 10-17-07, 03:38 PM	It depends on AC. if the party has median to low ACs for their level you can probably get away really cheap here, although the numbers can sound daunting...and are. You take a large group of allied, but lower level monsters and throw a swarm at them. This can be daunting to DM, but if you're well organized, and for a Con you really need to be well organized anyway, then it can provide a great, highly memorable encounter. Now, our numbers? 8 CR11 monsters with an additional 20 CR5 monsters in support. Our monsters? Troll Hunters, leading regular trolls. This could get hairy, but is legitimately an EL*18 encounter with a classic monster, that if treated right can be a damned scary one. Trolls are intelligent enough to work together as mercenaries, especially if a smart Mastermind type gives them a good reason to and they have decent staying power... especially so many together. You want Epic? Hows this one for a story? "Aye, I said there were more than two dozen of them, many of 'em smart, well trained, using the same kind of time tested tactics that the elves themselves were known for, and here was Anthreas on my left, Tyran on my right and Lady Sil at my back and we HAD TO stop them all..." Trolls have a mystique for many gamers. They're one of those ultimate mid level challenges...singularly... and most people can remember a fight and a half with them as a first encounter with ONE. The idea of taking on more than two dozen...at once, without regard to the level, IS Epic. Isshia
VulcanStormwrath 10-17-07, 09:49 PM	Half Marilith Ogre Fighter 8/Warhulk 4 I can give you her stats if you like.
archtemplari 10-18-07, 04:02 AM	I'm not sure about the idea of massive trolls -- i mean, it could be a great idea, but the AC issue is a bit out of my control (i made awesome characters, so the fighter-types do have pretty wonky ACs, and i'm not going to force a party type). I'm sort of playing around with the idea of a Dracolich with some demon/devil/yugoloth captives that it can free at the beginning of the battle. A CR 16-17 dragon and 2-4 of the following: horned devil, ice devil, nalfeshnee, glabrezu...(probably not demons AND devils, that's just asking for trouble, but one or the other). Or maybe an ultraloth with a posse of nycaloths?