Post/Author/DateTime	Post
MakArios 04-16-07, 06:23 PM	We are about to play a new campaign and my players have thought of starting as 1/2 (0?) level characters. They don`t want to start as commoners, and I can understand that ;), but being level 1 also doesn`t suit them. They have already agreed about the "meeting" point - they all come from the same village - and the reason why they would become adventurers (gave me 2 options). a) the village was attacked/burnt b) climate has changed and the village is getting abandoned. They also stated that if I have a better idea, then it`s my choice. Actually I like the b) option, but I`m digressing. The question is: How do you mechanically handle 1/2 (0) lvl characters? I`ve thought about using the rules for first level multiclassing (which I can`t find... :weep: ) and give them first level when they reach 500xp (following the basic schema for advancing), but I`m not sure about it. Any help is appreciated :). Cheers :).
kymaera 04-16-07, 06:32 PM	You could use some of the NPC classes as starter levels, then once then obtain some exp, they switch out for the real class. For example, a fighter can start out as a warrior, a cleric is an adept, a rogue as an expert, etc. You might have to tweak them a bit so that their abilities only go down and skills don't have to be reallocated.
Onikani 04-16-07, 06:49 PM	I did something very simimlar to this in my game: 6 + con bonus HP, 0 BAB. All saves at 0 + bonuses. Skillpoints: in my game all players start at level 0 with 8 skill points (no int bonus) that they can spend on the commoner class list (max ranks 3). At first level the get 4x thier class skills and int and racial bonuses just like if they had started at level 1. I let them keep those first 8 points, but those ranks continue as cross class if they are not on the current class list. It really hasn't effected my game at all, except every adventurer seems to have 3 ranks in spot and listen and 2 in ride. *shrugs* Also at first level their saves, BAB, and HP go up to match their newly chosen class. (in the event of d4 HD characters, just deduct the extra 2 points from whatever they roll upon reaching level 2 (or from the average if you do average rolls). Playing a level 1 wiz is hard enough, and i doubt 2hp is going to break the game, but your players will appreciate it). As for feats... i allowed the players to take their 1st level feat, and racial bonus feats at 0 level. the only people it will hurt are pc's that rely on the BAB 1 to pick their feats (fighters). So you may want to allow them to wither take it as if they were bab1 with the promise that take a class with full bab next level, or you may jsut tell them they have to wait until first level to get their feats. Either way. :) Good Luck!
MakArios 04-16-07, 07:34 PM	Thanks for the replies :). Kymaera, sorry but that is not what I`m looking for. But it helped ;). I mean if one of the players is going to start as a fighter (and I know one will :P ) I can use warrior stats and then give him a bonus feat. But it won`t work with spellcasters IMO - adept is something between a cleric and a wizard. And I don`t want to let my wizard heal at 0 level :D . Onikani, this is quite interesting. But again.. I think it can affect the game in an unpredicted way. Really, you didn`t see my players. They are creative to the limits :P . And while I really like you`re method I`m looking for 1/2lvl-to-1lvl and what you`ve done is more like a bonus half-lvl (at least for skill points). Also I don`t see the idea of equal HP for everyone (Barb and Sorc i.e.) Sorry :(. Maybe someone knows where are the rules for 1st lvl multiclassing? I`m digging through books for over an hour without results. And I`m pretty sure (95%) that I saw it somewhere. It had BAB, HP, skill points... even spells. Darn my memory ;(. If it can help, there will be 5 players - fighter, cleric-offensive (Helm), cleric-defensive (Berronar Truesilver, dwarven goddess), rogue and wizard.
weasel0 04-16-07, 07:45 PM	I think the rules for them are in either 3.0 or maybe 2nd Ed. Basically just cut all the BAB, B Saves, APs, HP, etc.etc. in half, and allow spellcasters to only utilize cantrips(0 lv).
daggeroflath 04-16-07, 07:53 PM	Why not just use the apprentice level rules from the DMG, that's what they're there for.
MakArios 04-16-07, 08:00 PM	On what page are the apprentice level rules, `cause I can`t find them?
Sphyre 04-16-07, 08:18 PM	Page 40, 3.0 DMG
daggeroflath 04-16-07, 08:44 PM	Thanks Sphyre.
MakArios 04-16-07, 08:44 PM	Thanks Sphyre :). That explains why I couldn`t find it - I have a 3.5 DMG, not 3.0. But I think that one of my players should have it (we DM rotationally). Thanks everyone for help :). I`ll post what rules we will use, maybe someone will be interested ;). Cheers :).
Fuzzypaws 04-16-07, 09:26 PM	Personally, I think it's bunk that the first class level replaces the racial hit die, so I don't do that. Everyone has at least 1 racial hit die, of "humanoid" or whatever they are, and that is 0-level. At 1000 xp you become a 1st level classed character, and that is in addition to your racial hit die. So when starting characters at 1st level they actually have two hit dice and 1000 xp, which drastically helps to mitigate the "one hit and you're dead" effect of being level 1, especially for wizards etc.
Scribbler 04-16-07, 10:03 PM	I'd roll their hit points as if they were members of an NPC class, and then give them the rest of the hp when they gain their full level. Other than that, I don't know about a system for it, but what classes do they want to play? I/someone else might be able to come up with something for specific classes (like an NPC class/watered-down version of their standard classes).
MakArios 04-17-07, 05:32 PM	I`ve already mentioned what classes there will be: If it can help, there will be 5 players - fighter, cleric-offensive (Helm), cleric-defensive (Berronar Truesilver, dwarven goddess), rogue and wizard. We found the rules for apprentices (1st lvl multiclassing) and will probably slightly modify those. The other option, after discussing it with my players, is Fuzzypaws - a humanoid dice, but this probably won`t pass, because 3 of 5 players are casters, so they wouldn`t have their main ability. They would`ve had more HP, but they don`t care about the fragility of characters. Not that I wouldn`t kill them ;), but they didn`t want to play 1/2lvl to be more.. endurant? I lack the word :(. The rules should be ready by tomorrow night (+-24h, it`s almost midnight here :P ) and they will probably need some tweaking - I`m not experienced enough to make these. Cheers :).
Scribbler 04-17-07, 07:03 PM	Ah, so you did. My mistake. Sounds like you already have an idea, but I'll give my ideas anyway. Roll hp, give only a +1 for their good saves, and maybe only give part of their skill points. Bump everything up to where it should be when they get their level. For the spellcasters either give them less spells per day, less spells known (the clerics pick some from their list and don't get the others to prepare), or a failure chance on spells. Either a chance that it doesn't work or a very small chance that it goes wrong and doesn't do what they want (nothing too devastating, if affects the wrong target or does the opposite but no more powerful maybe). For the rogue, trapfinding, but no sneak attack. For the fighter, no bonus feat. Basically, cut a few class features and give 'em back when they get the level.
jhosmer 04-17-07, 10:12 PM	Andy Collins came up with half-level characters back in his Bloodlines campaign: http://andycollins.net/Campaigns/Bloodlines/c02_below_first_level.htm I used this, but you have to be extremely careful. Remember how easy it is to kill a 1st level character? It's even easier to kill a half-level. Concentrate on roleplaying and keep the combat as simple as you can. Even 1 goblin can be tough on a small party of half-levels.
MakArios 04-19-07, 04:24 AM	Thanks jhosmer, it really helped me (and reminded about proficiences too ;) ). I was not going to have a lot of fights, but thanks for the advice anyway :). This is what we came with for now (the game will be this saturday): Overall: Skill points: (normal for class+Int mod)x2 [instead of x4; human`s bonus skill point`s applies] Feat: Normal [human`s bonus feat applies] Starting gold: (normal for class)x5 [instead of x10] Caster level: normal spells Class HP BAB Fort Ref Will 0lvl 1lvl Special Cleric 6 0 1 0 1 2 0* 1 domain*** Fighter 7 0 1 0 0 - - - Rogue 4 0 0 1 0 - - Trapfinding Wizard 3 0 0 0 1 2 0** - *Cleric can have 1lvl spells, if he has sufficiently high Wis modifier to grant him bonus spells of that level. He can prepare normal cleric spell only and does not gain domain spells. **Wizard can have 1lvl spells, if he has suficiently high Int modifier to grant him bonus spells of that level. He does not gain additional spell slot for specializing in a school of magic. ***Cleric chooses one domain available to him and is granted the power for this domain. He does not gain access to the second domain until he reaches 1st level. Wizards spells known: All cantrips, (Int modifier) 1st level spells. Proficiencies: Cleric: All simple weapons, light and medium armor, shields (but not tower shields). Fighter: All simple weapons, 3 martial weapons (player`s choice), light and medium armor, shields (but not tower shields). Rogue: All simple weapons, plus short sword and shortbow, light armor, no shields. Wizard: Club, dagger, light crossbow, quarterstaff, no armor or shields. Do you think that these stats will be ok? Cheers :).
jhosmer 04-19-07, 03:23 PM	Looks good, except that you make no mention of whether or not the Fighter's bonus feat applies.
MakArios 04-19-07, 05:02 PM	Because fighter`s bonus feats are listed under the "Special" column in PHB - and he doesn`t have anything there, so no bonus feat, just as a wizard won`t get his familiar or the scribe scroll feat... hmm... Maybe he should get one of these abbilities? What do you think?
jhosmer 04-19-07, 09:34 PM	Neither the familiar (100 gp!) or the scribe scroll feat are going to help a half-level much. I wouldn't worry about them. I would keep the fighter from getting his bonus feat, as it's all he'll get when he reaches first level (besides extra hp and such). I just mentioned it because you had "feats as normal" and I wasn't sure if that included the fighter bonus or not. Good luck this weekend!
Veneficus 04-19-07, 10:52 PM	I am surprised, nobody pulled out the d20 Modern rulebook, where there is a nice section on CHILDREN. Children do not have class levels. Their ability scores are modified as follows: -3 STR, CON -1 DEX, INT, WIS, CHA They have 1d4 hit points plus their CON modifier. The have no skils, feats, action points, or occupations (in other words, no special abilities of any kind, though I would allow low-light and darkvision, secret door sensing, etc.). Their BAB is +0. They have a +0 modifier on all saving throws (plus any modifiers for high or low ability scores). They have a speed of 20 feet. At age 12, they take heir first level in a class. I would start a 0-level character as a child, with -500 experience. When they get to 0 experience, then let them take level 1.
MakArios 04-21-07, 04:48 PM	The session was today and it went well :). I would like to thank you all once again for all the advice - keep up the good work guys/girls :). Cheers :).