Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Omnirahk, half-Rahkshi 09-17-07, 10:25 PM	Well, I guess the title says it pretty well. I'm trying to plan an intrigue-based session, and I want tips on how to not railroad it. And just general tips for running this sort of thing. The idea I have is for a DragonMech campaign (post-apocolyptic fantasy steampunk). Inspiration credited to a section of Second Age of Walkers. Here's the idea: There's a particular bard in the Irontooth Clans who's incredibly famous for his amazing paintings. (Interestingly, he has max ranks in Craft (painting) and no ranks in any sort of perform. So he's a terrible bard - level 5). Anyway, it's been revealed that he was recently "possessed" by a creature known as a skin stealer. It's more of a coating around him that controls his body. Anyway, it's been allowing him minor freedom, as its espionage works by having powerful people request his paintings - and it's no artist. Always a master of conveying deep emotional meaning in his paintings, there have been subtle hints that all is not right. Here's problem one: how do I get the players to figure out he needs their help, and what sort of help? Now then, I want them to originally figure this out when they can't attack the skinstealer (it dies after 18 points of damage, unless I advance it - party will be 3rd level, I expect. Just after completing Shardsfall Quest). How do I manage this? I guess it'd be the same situation as with Haimler (part of Shardsfall Quest - the idea's getting old now, but it'll make the PCs paranoid of everyone). You see, I want them to then go to the painter's girlfriend and try to enlist her help. Thing is, she's actually a gold digger, and the skinstealer has been passing her more money and giving her more alone time (even tolerating affairs). She's not aware yet, but if the PCs inform her, she'll probably offer them a large sum of money - maybe even willingly paying blackmail money to keep quiet about this and ensure the painter remains controlled. She's got it good, and can't have them messing it up. Now the players have an opportunity to show me if they want to be heroes or mercenaries. And if they are heroes, I'm sure she'll try to bump them off. And as a level 3 rogue, she makes a nice challenge. The problem I'm seeing with this plot is that it's rather linear. Other than the choosing to free the bard or help keep him trapped, the session doesn't offer much room for the players to deviate from the path. Ideas for how to improve this? And then there's the all important loot. I want something really fitting for all this. The painter is world famous - the equivalent of Michelangelo or Da Vinci, if you will. Innovative as well as talented. Most famous mech jockeys clamber for his work - paintings of their victories and custom decals. (Included among these patrons are both his parents - they're among the best). So clearly this guy offers major connections. And likely he'll make them a custom painting to commemorate how they helped him - artwork that I'd love to see become priceless for the PCs. If they ever get one, I'm sure he'd paint their mech. These all sound very rewarding, but unless they sell his commemorative painting, they don't get any cash. Sure, he can give them a chestful of gold pieces, but where's the good stuff? What sort of special items do you think he might be able to reward them with? Here's to what I hope will be a memorable session in a great campaign. Long live DragonMech!
Omnirahk, half-Rahkshi 09-19-07, 11:03 AM	[Checks that he did post this in the What's A DM to Do? forum.] Wow, this fell into oblivion quickly. No thoughts?
Omnirahk, half-Rahkshi 09-20-07, 07:23 PM	Wait. Third page again?! I just bumped yesterday! Wow, there must be an influx of new DMs or something, cuz a lot of people need help.
KJW 09-20-07, 08:21 PM	Here is my advice for making non-linear mysteries and intrigue adventures: Good GMs worry about problems and leave the solutions to the players. You are worrying too much about how the players will react, just set up the problem and see what they do. Still you sense that this adventure is pretty linear and the problem is really not as open-ended as it could be. I don't know DragonMech so my suggestions will be generic. A) Have someone hire the players to convince the painter to do a painting for this individual. The painter is completely booked and the employer wants them to 'fix' this so he can have his painting. The employer is offering them good money or something of value to them. B) Here is the complexity - the skintaker (I am ignorant of this creature) was put there by a powerful individual who has forcibly become the patron of the painter. The creature is to ensure that he only paints for this individual. This individual is who sends thugs and the like. C) Change the GF to actually carrying about the painter and she may be the one who goes to the PCs for help when they come and are refused by the painter. For added complexity have the painter have a wife who is happy with the deal with the patron (she is the one richly rewarded by the contract which she arranged) and make the GF his model and mistress. D) You can't talk to the painter because the skintaker is there so the PCs have to make a decision what to do. Thugs can be sent by the new patron and you have a more complex scenario. E) Add a sub-plot like maybe one of the PCs has to get a relative out of prison, which may be the payment from the employer. Sub-plots give you complexity, but don't overdo it or it will overwhelm your players. Anyway just some thoughts.
Kaligrad 09-20-07, 09:12 PM	I remember from Cityscape that if you need to leave clues for the PC's to get to the next stage, leave several. Like 10. Remember, the PC's only need to find 1-3 before connecting the dots, so all the other clues never happened, maintaining the enemy's appearance of composure.
Omnirahk, half-Rahkshi 09-20-07, 09:33 PM	Here is my advice for making non-linear mysteries and intrigue adventures: Good GMs worry about problems and leave the solutions to the players. You are worrying too much about how the players will react, just set up the problem and see what they do. Still you sense that this adventure is pretty linear and the problem is really not as open-ended as it could be. I don't know DragonMech so my suggestions will be generic. A) Have someone hire the players to convince the painter to do a painting for this individual. The painter is completely booked and the employer wants them to 'fix' this so he can have his painting. The employer is offering them good money or something of value to them. B) Here is the complexity - the skintaker (I am ignorant of this creature) was put there by a powerful individual who has forcibly become the patron of the painter. The creature is to ensure that he only paints for this individual. This individual is who sends thugs and the like. C) Change the GF to actually carrying about the painter and she may be the one who goes to the PCs for help when they come and are refused by the painter. For added complexity have the painter have a wife who is happy with the deal with the patron (she is the one richly rewarded by the contract which she arranged) and make the GF his model and mistress. D) You can't talk to the painter because the skintaker is there so the PCs have to make a decision what to do. Thugs can be sent by the new patron and you have a more complex scenario. E) Add a sub-plot like maybe one of the PCs has to get a relative out of prison, which may be the payment from the employer. Sub-plots give you complexity, but don't overdo it or it will overwhelm your players. Anyway just some thoughts. Thanks. I'll definitely use A. B doesn't quite fit with how skinstealers fit into DragonMech. There's currently a war between the earth and moon (think War of the Worlds), and skinstealers happen to be the spies of the moon. They're sorta sheet-like, and can cover a creature's skin and then control them. The painter is hired by the world's best mech pilots to capture their victories. And it's mechs that are holding back the lunar menace. So the skinstealer's there to find/put holes in our defenses. C is an interesting idea, but it changes the stuff that really called to me about the plot hook. Thanks for the idea, I'll probably use it later, but not here. D is definitely the crux of the problem. The skinstealer is attached to the painter and in control. Except when he's actually painting, since it's no artist. E is a very nice idea. It'd probably be Shar Thizdic who'd have someone important in jail - and he's already an enemy of the PCs by this point. I might need a slightly different idea though. If the PCs do side with the painter rather than the gf, I want it to be a good deed. Or stopping the lunar menace. I don't really want an employer - after all, who else knows the painter is possessed? Although I suppose his friends might have noted what's wrong. Or some fan of his work may have figured out the cry for help. How should I get the PCs to figure out his paintings (which they will be seeing) contain a message for help?
KJW 09-21-07, 09:35 AM	See the problem with his paintings containing a message for help is very difficult to pull off...then again maybe not. You could have him place a code in the painting. For example, a scroll in the painting appears to have a string of nonsense words in it. Just mentioning this may alert the players, then have a decipher script check for a code: "help me I am possessed!" or something equally blessed. If you are worried about the PCs pursuing this you could have an art critic figure it out and seek out the PCs. :)
Omnirahk, half-Rahkshi 09-22-07, 10:46 AM	See the problem with his paintings containing a message for help is very difficult to pull off...then again maybe not. You could have him place a code in the painting. For example, a scroll in the painting appears to have a string of nonsense words in it. Just mentioning this may alert the players, then have a decipher script check for a code: "help me I am possessed!" or something equally blessed. If you are worried about the PCs pursuing this you could have an art critic figure it out and seek out the PCs. :) Oh, I like it. Giving a use to Decipher Script. Which actually comes up in the official Shardsfall Quest adventure (which I'll be using to lead into this). Imagine, a campaign where Decipher Script is actually useful. Although sense motive might work as well. The painter (taken directly from Second Age of Walkers setting sourcebook) is well-known for paintings capable of previously unknown levels of emotional expression. Which the skinstealer is incapable of understanding.
Omnirahk, half-Rahkshi 09-24-07, 09:30 AM	Thanks for all the help so far. Thinking about it, I realize my biggest problem is creating situation where the PCs decide to consult the gf first. Maybe if I make it clear they're unlikely to get him alone . . . But I don't plan on having her help. So what do I do?
KJW 09-24-07, 11:11 AM	Thanks for all the help so far. Thinking about it, I realize my biggest problem is creating situation where the PCs decide to consult the gf first. Maybe if I make it clear they're unlikely to get him alone . . . But I don't plan on having her help. So what do I do? Just put her in a scene and the players will likely put 1 and 1 together. Just reveal the GF, perhaps she is leaving when they are going. Have a brief interaction that has nothing to do with the scenario, but just make sure she informs them she is the painter's soul mate. :) Truly, this is all players will need. When they get stumped they will seek out the GF.
Omnirahk, half-Rahkshi 09-24-07, 08:13 PM	Just put her in a scene and the players will likely put 1 and 1 together. Just reveal the GF, perhaps she is leaving when they are going. Have a brief interaction that has nothing to do with the scenario, but just make sure she informs them she is the painter's soul mate. :) Truly, this is all players will need. When they get stumped they will seek out the GF. That works. But I don't plan on her being helpful. Supposing the PCs do still want to free him (rather than accepting the gf's offer to keep him possessed), where do I go from here? Clearly I'll need to drop that option. I suppose a spot check to notice something in her office, or a slight of hand to snatch the schedule ('cuz she's arranging who the painter sees and when). Maybe even give the PCs a chance to scribble themselves in. If they can. (I guess here's a time where I just roll the dice in secret and automatically say they succeed - it'd be too much to have them deal with the fallout of screwing up).
Omnirahk, half-Rahkshi 09-27-07, 06:53 PM	:bump: You know, I'm still looking for help. Or at least a larger poll to reach consensus.
Necrosis 09-27-07, 08:04 PM	Its a nice little plot but I feel the PC's arn't like charaters in a book-they probably won't get the plot. If this happens-thats fine, let them face the consquences of haveign a spy in the midst :)-also an excuse to have a second batch of clues, possibly the skin stealer murders someone who identifies it. The skin stealer needs a strong agenda and will eventually give its self away by a) Been an obvious spy when its infomation is used to blantly, its transmission are tracked, or it tries ot recruit others. b) One of the enemey spy network is caught/interragatted or swaps sides, he/she might tell the PC's side that theres an agent in city X, or even more specfic-ether way let the PC's do the invesigation. P.S. other suggestions-the skin stealer is likly to recruit the girlfriend with blakc mail or by turning her into a skin stealer-her change in behavoiur from a money spending party girl to either a matria hairia or quiet theif would be a good clue to give hte PC's as well (also adds some mis directin form the primary skin stealer-make him a spy master if they don't get the hint :) ).
DM_Shonuff 09-27-07, 08:29 PM	Not knowing thing 1 about this mech game, i'll give you a brief summary of my opinions on intrigue in general. maybe something sticks to the wall..(spaghetti joke) anyway, With intrigue Yoda there is right. it's not about how you get them to point Z from point A. you set up the paths they "could' take, and let them find, B, C ,D,E, etc. to get to Z. best way i've found out how to set up a good intrigue game, is to work backwards. work on the Before the adventure backwards from the point before the adventurers appear into the picture. You have a possessed skin thingy..okay how'd he find the painter? OKay the skin thingy was hired by person X. How did the skin thingy get to know who he was going to skin? Okay we got a few people who helped the skinthingy get to the painter, and through security. Who were these people? A local thug, and info broker who knows aboutt he painter - NPC or enemy Ah, okay we have a cargo operator specialist, who handled the Skinthingy's cargo box shipment.- NPC contact for PC clues We have a ship's Manifest and cargo manager paid by the big bad guy to "overlook the skinthingy's box - NPC contact for PC clues or enemy We have the ship's pilot from the moon(or whereever) for information as to it's origins. - NPC possible enemy of PCs. right there you've given yourself three to four choices for the PCs to backtrack clues to. Leads that you give them with clues. Maybe they find a stray reciept for a cargo box from the ship in the entry hall of the house ( where the skinstealer exploded from onto the painter) or maybe they hear on the news/wire/herald that the ship's captain came down with a diseas not seen in awhile on earth and he's hopitalized ( giving heavy details about innocuous things in a RPG tells the acveraged brained player "Hey this is important." opposite of why we don't describe every trash can't contents or back alley rubbish when someone is just 'running down an alley". because that -isn't important. Work your way backward to the point of why the skinstalker was sent..this is the general path the players should take when finding clues. leave lots of clues for one lead..that way if they miss something, they don't stand doing nothing. and too linear? add in red herrings. add in side plots. Maybe the wife/girlfriend gold digger actually had an assassin set up to kill the painter before the skinstealer thingy got him? MAybe the Pcs find a dead thug with a note in his pocket witht he painter's name on it or the wife's bank account, or a check in his pocket from her? This adds to them ain quest, but still is seperate and is another "piece of the grand puzzle" Maybe a rival painter wants to deface some of your painter's work...and is found dead from an obvious alien life form (this would put the Pcs on the trail of the skin thingy) and would raise eyebrows. adding a whle seperate "find the killer of the killer side thing could take PCs around D to R then to U to get to Z (using example above) not A-B-C-D..still ending up with the painter being posessed..just finding out another way. Maybe the Pcs run into a homeless man who has been watching the house, and has information, but the Pcs may think he's spying or has bad intentions..NPCs can give obvious clues once the PCs work to get the info..nicely or Chaotic neutrally. *smiles* anyway., just my thoughts on the different twits you could use. Ignore any and all typos..they're not bugs...they're fun games for your brain to figure out the corect word I meant.
Omnirahk, half-Rahkshi 09-28-07, 11:54 AM	Let's see . . . working backwards . . . Lunar creatures reach earth by one of only two means. Either they fell down when another piece of the moon broke loose, or else they were ferried down by a lunar dragon. The second almost never happens (how often would a regular dragon just ferry a human around?). So this skinstealer is probably just a normal example. It fell down when a fragment of the moon broke free while it was there. Possibly it was another temple to the lunar gods. (Three are named in the setting, and they're united with the goal of earthly conquest/world domination). So this skinstealer is quite possibly a cleric. Or at least affiliated with the church. So here's the story I'm going with: the skinstealer was appointed by the triumvirate of lunar gods to be one of several spies, looking into the weaknesses of these mechs, which have halted the advancement of the lunar onslaught. Erefiviviasta, lunar goddess of flight, freed one of the temples and sent these spies down to earth in one of the many meteors. Some time after impact, prospectors came to explore the asteroid and mine it of useful minerals (as is quite common in DragonMech - the PCs will have just recently finished just such a quest). From here the skinstealers possessed the miners and split up. Here's potential clue number 1: this band had long worked together, but suddenly went their separate ways for no apparent reason. The skinstealer of interest to this campaign found its way to the Irontooth Clans. Maybe our particular prospector was the victim of a raiding mission. Hence the skinstealer switched hosts. To cover its tracks, it arranged the death of the prospector. Easy enough, since it was a raid. Now, the Irontooth Clans produce the finest mech jockeys on Highpoint. So the skinstealer was able to accomplish its goal from here quite well. Eventually the wanderings of the Irontooth Clans brought it into contact with Harvest Clan and Zack Rodebaugh, the painter I've mentioned. This was just too tempting of a target, for Zack makes a living off of depicting mech battles. People come from miles around just to make sure Zack sees them fight. Few better ways exist for the thing to learn all it can about mech strengths and weaknesses. And so it arranged a run-in with one of Zack's friends, and swapped hosts. As always, it arranged the "accidental" death of its previous host. The next time this friend met with Zack, the skinstealer dominated Zack and took him as its host. To cover its tracks, it slew Zack's friend, under the pretext of a duel defending the honor of the g.f. Because Zack is the only one who doesn't realize she's a gold digger. Ordinarily, this would have been risky, but it temporarily dominated most of Zack's friends by draining the host's wisdom. Which conveniently left the host seeming rather insane during the duel, so even later, suspicion was not aroused. Ordinarily the skinstealer would continue to dominate minions to aid its disguise, but its current cover leaves it relying on Zack's talent as a painter. It can only dominate beings via touch or by draining its host's wisdom, and it fears to damage Zack too much, lest his work suffer. If that were to happen, it would lose a great source of information. Still, there is only so much the skinstealer can learn from the sidelines, and Zack's usefulness is nearing an end. The Irontooth pilots are extraordinary, but their mechs are nothing in comparison to the city-mechs that even a lunar dragon cannot face. As such, the skinstealer hopes to make its way to the elven city-mech Tannanliel. It is not only the strongest mech by far, but it is also a repository of magical knowledge. Additionally, few other city-mechs value the role of an artist. Although Zack could also buy his way onto Nedderpick. Either way, it will eventually arrange the transfer of hosts and the "suicide" of Zack. Now, the trail the PCs can find: Zack recently killed a friend in a duel to the death about the slighted honor of his woman (who is indeed a lying, cheating, gold digger). This friend had been acting strange for the last few days, and seemed to have gone insane as Zack chased him from his room. Their mutual friends cannot explain why they stood aside, they just seemed out of it. If they trace the info back farther, they'll find that Zack's friend first seemed disturbed after hearing a private proposal of some sort from a washed up mech jockey. Other information might reveal that shortly after this mech jockey arrived, there have been a series of mysterious deaths, including his own (or should they only discover that he's since gone missing, his mech abandoned?). And then there's what the PCs might discover about Zack's g.f. Shortly after Zack killed a friend to defend her honor, he withdrew from her. She's been less cautious about her affairs, but Zack seems not to notice. She still makes all of the arrangements for Zack's painting jobs, and lately she's accepted only the richest clients. Research into her past might reveal a history of power brokering and using lovers. However, I don't want to play this up too much, because initial checks into those close to Zack (to try to arrange a meeting) should reveal that he's withdrawn more and more from friends (losing quite a few) over raised words in her defense. I suppose an NPC can seek out the PCs when they realize she won't help. After all, he still has some friends. Or for a twist on things: I mentioned the lunar gods are working together for earthly domination. Well, there are three known: the god of lunar dragons, the goddess of flight, and the god of change. The third is, of course, flighty and reliable, being change incarnate. Thus far he (it) has worked with the other two because of the drastic change it's brought to Highpoint. But the first two have a particularly interesting dynamic. Andakakilogitat is a lunar dragon who ascended to godhood and then stole worship by the lunar dragons from Erefiviviasta. The two have had a bitter rivalry that has since been only pushed aside for world conquest. If however, something has changed that, Erefiviviasta might sabotage the whole conquest. It was, after all, Andakakilogitat's plan, and if the costs become too high, it will be on his heads. So perhaps the NPC contact is in fact possessed by a skinstealer more loyal to Erefiviviasta than the lunar pantheon as a whole. While it claims to be seeking the PCs so they can make Zack see the truth (feigning ignorance of the original skinstealer), it in fact seeks to help destroy it. Interestingly, it may even have come to an agreement with its host rather than complete domination. Either way, the host does sincerely desire Zack's freedom.
Omnirahk, half-Rahkshi 10-01-07, 09:43 AM	:bump: I believe bump says it all.
Empirate 10-01-07, 10:46 AM	To me it would seem as if you had the whole thing bundled quite well. An additional thing you could do is having several "exit options", points from where the adventure can be called concluded, more or less. One is: The PCs don't help Zack (paid by GF) or don't manage to help him (didn't find important clue, messed up in important situations etc.). The skinstealer will head for that elven citymech and leave Zack dead once he gets there. The PCs should find enough clues to give chase, even if only Zack's sudden death. But they might not care/invest enough energy to find out. The Skinstealer should return to plague them in some major way later (if only because the moon people learn too much important stuff). Another is: The PCs find out what they need to know, and actually defeat the Skinstealer. But he was part of a clutch, wasn't he? He's kept the other Skinstealers he arrived with informed of his findings. The PCs need to find out where Zack was going in secret every month. Zack can help them, but he'll probably be amnesiac about those trips. Still another: They find out everything but agree not to kill the Skinstealer. Much more intelligent to know an enemy spy and feed it false information, than kill it and not know the replacement! An individual of authority may even have been doing this for some time. If the PCs mess up that individual's plans, which are quite important for Earth's well-being, they've made a huge mistake! This can be tied into some stuff from option 1, too. Then, there's always sidequests to throw in when the PCs are making too much or too little headway. When they're reaching conclusion too fast for your purposes, throw in a feud between rivaling mechwarriors: Both want a painting by Zack, and they duel to be first in line. The winner is painted, but the Skinstealer possesses him instead of Zack. Once the PCs have discovered all important facts about Zack, the Skinstealer's new host attempts to kill him. Before the PCs have a chance to get to the attacker, he in turn is killed in revenge by his beaten rival. The Skinstealer can't do anything about it (ambush situation), but manages to transfer to the rival at the last second. Effect: The PCs are led on a wild-goose chase, and the pace picks up nicely. When they don't make any headway at all, the above may happen much the same, only the PCs will wonder why Zack was attacked by the mechwarrior he was in the process of painting! They'll chase him down and maybe get some clues out of this - make it so the Skinstealer doesn't have total control all the time. Also, the last, unfinished picture could contain some more blatant clues than the ones before. You should never underestimate players' capacity to simplify an adventure that seems complex. And vice versa. So don't be afraid to add a little complexity. You can always take it out later if your players are in fact overwhelmed. Make sure to start out simply, and to end simply. In between, you can add and take away units of complexity as wanted. Try to think of NPCs and their motives as such units of complexity: Each clue, each NPC, each lie and each riddle is one unit of complexity. If there are too many, make one of them simple. NPCs die or are satisfied and drop out of the game. Lies can be found to be lies through evidence to the contrary. Riddles can be solved, (partly) by NPCs if necessary. What was intended to be a clue, but proved to make everything too complicated, can be made to seem like coincidence and drop out of the equation. And so on. Good luck!
Omnirahk, half-Rahkshi 10-01-07, 11:09 PM	Thanks.