Post/Author/DateTime	Post
7days 07-12-07, 02:12 PM	I'm starting a first level campaign. How do you handle starting gold? Give them a set amount, or make them take the starting equipment listed under the class? Something else? Thanks
crazy_monkey1956 07-12-07, 02:14 PM	I let my players roll starting gold using the dice ranges listed at the beginning of the equipment chapter. I like hearing the clatter of dice on the table. It's part of the D&D experience for me.
Ace_of_time 07-12-07, 02:15 PM	I'm starting a first level campaign. How do you handle starting gold? Give them a set amount, or make them take the starting equipment listed under the class? Something else? Thanks There should be a list under the chapter equipment.I let my players choose ether the average roll, which is given in 3.5, or make them roll based on class.
Nephlite 07-12-07, 02:33 PM	I'm starting a first level campaign. How do you handle starting gold? Give them a set amount, or make them take the starting equipment listed under the class? Something else? Thanks Dos it matter how they get the gold? I don't think forcing starting equipment is good because the ionic character sometimes do stupid choices.
Toloran 07-12-07, 02:48 PM	My group generally does max starting gold since we like buying weird items for humor/roleplaying reasons (one of my friends bought a Go board for his character one time).
Kouk 07-12-07, 03:03 PM	Yeah, max starting gold for their class I say. Life's too short (for level 1 characters) to be stingy.
Ace_of_time 07-12-07, 03:10 PM	That's only like 20gps for monk.
High Octane 07-12-07, 03:14 PM	That's only like 20gps for monk. Yeah, and? Monks don't need armor and thats the biggest gold sink in early levels.
Disciple_of_Juiblex 07-12-07, 03:20 PM	Max gold for first level & classes with a familiar get it for free if they start play with it.
doomblade403x 07-12-07, 03:20 PM	Well a monk needs little more than food, a pack, a bedroll, and he's ready to adventure. His unarmed combat skills pretty much cut out the weaponsmith, and as he progresses in levels it's only going to get better. Max starting gold is a good way to go, however I'm a little old fashioned. Some things I just won't allow a first level character to get unless it's specific to the class. For instance I wouldn't allow a fighter lockpicks because it's a thief item. Silk rope, the same thing. Who does this fighter know that allows him access to a higher grade of rope than the common man. I actually had a player once who as a rogue bought an empty spellbook. Why? I have no clue, but he and the wizard became best buds and they ended up sharing alot of resources. In many ways it's a good thing. Sometimes it's unrealistic for players to share too much.
Ace_of_Night 07-12-07, 03:37 PM	Indeed, monks really don't need any starting equipment other than basic adventuring gear and maybe a quarterstaff. Anyway, why wouldn't you allow a fighter to buy a silk rope/lockpicks but would you allow a rogue to buy a spellbook? Aaand to get back to the OP, either stick with the table at the start of the equipment chapter or just give them 150 gold each at the start.. At level 2-3 you shouldn't even notice the little bit of extra money you gave them at the beginning anymore anyway, but it's always handy for characters to at least start with most of the mundane equipment they want (some heavy armor excluded)
Karui_Kage 07-12-07, 03:44 PM	For instance I wouldn't allow a fighter lockpicks because it's a thief item. Silk rope, the same thing. Who does this fighter know that allows him access to a higher grade of rope than the common man. ....You're joking, right? Scene: A small general store, near the middle of town. Enter: Our hero, a level 1 fighter, just starting his adventure and gathering some supplies. At 14 Str and 11 Int, he's not the strongest of fellows, but he has enough brains to get by. <Hero walks into the store> Owner: "Hello there! Can I help you find anything today?" Hero: "Actually, you can. I'm going to be traveling a lot pretty soon, and needed some supplies." O: "Oh, well then you've come to the right place! As you can see by looking around, we have everything you can need, from lanterns, to rope, to rations to keep you fed while on the road." H: "Excellent! Well, I'd like to keep a light pack if I can. Too many things will lesson my mobility, and I'll need all the speed I can get while on the road." O: "Of course, sir. What would you like to start with first?" H: "Hmmm. Well you never know when mountains will get in the way, or pit traps will be stumbled across. Let's start with the rope." O: "Certainly sir, we have some fine hemp rope right here, 50 feet worth." H: "Ah, very nice. Hmm. It's a little heavy though. You wouldn't happen to have anything lighter, would you? And just as strong? I'm not too knowledgeable about rope, but maybe you know of a better material?" O: "Well, it's a bit more expensive, but we have 50 feet of silk rope right here. It would be ten gold pieces instead of one, but it's twice as light!" H: "Hmm, it is a bit pricey for rope, but I can see the benefit of having a light load. Sure, I'll take it, I can afford it." O: "Of course, sir. Before I sell this to you though, can you tell me your character class?" H: "...my what?" O: "Your character class, sir. You know, are you a fighter, a cleric, a druid, a rogue, a wizard, that sort of thing." H: "Oh...well, I always considered myself a traveling warrior so I guess...fighter?" O: "OOooh, I'm sorry sir, I can't sell this to a fighter. You wouldn't know how to handle the rope properly." H: "I wouldn't...what? But it's rope, right? Just like hemp rope, only lighter? And isn't Use Rope a skill that can be used untrained?" O: "It is sir, but I'm sorry, I can only put this fine silk rope in the hands of someone whom I know understands it, like a Rogue. They have Use Rope, you know, as a class skill!" H: "But I have Climb as a class skill... and I can see you have another dozen or so bundles of this silk rope at LEAST, behind your counter!" O: "Sir, do I need to ask you to leave?" H: "No..." O: "Hemp Rope then?" I think you can see here where this falls apart. If a merchant stands to make 10 times as much by selling an item that is by no means rare (unless you have some special rule that finding silk is incredibly difficult in your world) and only has the special quality that it *weighs less*, why wouldn't he sell it to the fighter? Why would the fighter have any more difficulty acquiring it than another class? Sorry, but this is just dumb. :)
Ace_of_Night 07-12-07, 03:58 PM	O: "Of course, sir. Before I sell this to you though, can you tell me your character class?" H: "...my what?" O: "Your character class, sir. You know, are you a fighter, a cleric, a druid, a rogue, a wizard, that sort of thing." H: "Oh...well, I always considered myself a traveling warrior so I guess...fighter?" O: "OOooh, I'm sorry sir, I can't sell this to a fighter. You wouldn't know how to handle the rope properly." H: "I wouldn't...what? But it's rope, right? Just like hemp rope, only lighter? And isn't Use Rope a skill that can be used untrained?" O: "It is sir, but I'm sorry, I can only put this fine silk rope in the hands of someone whom I know understands it, like a Rogue. They have Use Rope, you know, as a class skill!" H: "But I have Climb as a class skill... and I can see you have another dozen or so bundles of this silk rope at LEAST, behind your counter!" O: "Sir, do I need to ask you to leave?" H: "No..." O: "Hemp Rope then?" In any campaign where a storekeeper begins asking for class and starts talking about what's a class skill, and then says he won't sell it to the fighter because he isn't a rogue, the DM needs a very, very hard whack in the head. Very. Period. :P
Calilove 07-12-07, 04:13 PM	Depends on how you run your shopkeepers, etc. Some folks just let you buy anything you can find in the books at face value. Personally i like to make life a bit harder... my general stores don't sell +1 swords, smokesticks etc, my storekeepers have personality/quirks, and blacksmiths don't all make the same stuff. For this type of game, I like to roll for $, let them pick all starting gear at book value, then keep the change for future use (although the price may go up on those "city" goods if you're out haggling at the trade post). If your in Eberron or something, just give them max gold and turn them loose. Much more established economy, easier to buy the fancy stuff, etc.
Ace_of_Night 07-12-07, 04:23 PM	Depends on how you run your shopkeepers, etc. Some folks just let you buy anything you can find in the books at face value. Personally i like to make life a bit harder... my general stores don't sell +1 swords, smokesticks etc, my storekeepers have personality/quirks, and blacksmiths don't all make the same stuff. For this type of game, I like to roll for $, let them pick all starting gear at book value, then keep the change for future use (although the price may go up on those "city" goods if you're out haggling at the trade post). If your in Eberron or something, just give them max gold and turn them loose. Much more established economy, easier to buy the fancy stuff, etc. This wasn't about a merchant having/not having something in stock, it was about a rogue being able to buy something in the same place as the fighter can't buy the same item. I'd be different if this was about poison or such, but surely you don't need to go to the dark alleys and underground of a city to find some silk rope? :P And I mostly let people pick their starting equipment (no matter what level we start at) as long as it's not something completely out of the ordinary, but if they want to buy something during the campaign they'll have to find a person that sells it.
Karui_Kage 07-12-07, 04:24 PM	In any campaign where a storekeeper begins asking for class and starts talking about what's a class skill, and then says he won't sell it to the fighter because he isn't a rogue, the DM needs a very, very hard whack in the head. Very. Period. :P Agreed. Unless you were implying that I meant those lines of dialog seriously, in which case I tell you that they were most definitely meant to be satire. I cannot begin to understand why a fighter should have restricted access to silk freaking rope. :)
Karui_Kage 07-12-07, 04:25 PM	This wasn't about a merchant having/not having something in stock, it was about a rogue being able to buy something in the same place as the fighter can't buy the same item. I'd be different if this was about poison or such, but surely you don't need to go to the dark alleys and underground of a city to find some silk rope? :P I agree. My point wasn't about stock either, it was about the fact that it's rope. I can understand the DM limiting poisons and such to the shadier characters, though I still don't see why a fighter couldn't track one down for a decent sum if he wanted to. Money talks, after all.
Ace_of_Night 07-12-07, 04:25 PM	Agreed. Unless you were implying that I meant those lines of dialog seriously, in which case I tell you that they were most definitely meant to be satire. I cannot begin to understand why a fighter should have restricted access to silk freaking rope. :) Don't be afraid, I have enough wits to not take that dialog seriously.
uglykitten 07-12-07, 04:32 PM	I always give my characters a "starting kit" of a bedroll, a backpack, two potions cure light, a tindertwig and 50 feet of rope. I then give them an amount of gold based on what they give for their backstory. If they give me a well-thought-out backstory, I give them 300 gold on top of this "starting kit". If it's something along the lines of "I don't know who my parents are and I'm adventuring because I think people are stupid" I given them 50 gold. IF I am feeling generous. Oh, yes, and if they give me a "canned" backstory, I slash gold even more. Sometimes, my PCs can't even afford their first weapons. I make the first encounters easier if that's the case, though. So they CAN get money for weapons. ^^; I'm an eeeeevil DM, though.
Ace_of_Night 07-12-07, 04:34 PM	I always give my characters a "starting kit" of a bedroll, a backpack, two potions cure light, a tindertwig and 50 feet of rope. I then give them an amount of gold based on what they give for their backstory. If they give me a well-thought-out backstory, I give them 300 gold on top of this "starting kit". If it's something along the lines of "I don't know who my parents are and I'm adventuring because I think people are stupid" I given them 50 gold. IF I am feeling generous. Oh, yes, and if they give me a "canned" backstory, I slash gold even more. Sometimes, my PCs can't even afford their first weapons. I make the first encounters easier if that's the case, though. So they CAN get money for weapons. ^^; I'm an eeeeevil DM, though. And... if they make a really good background story but that background story is about how the character has always been a very poor lad who had to pick pockets to at least have some money to eat? Something in the lines of: "The nobleman whose pockets you just picked had a bedroll, a backpack, two potions cure light, a tindertwig, 50 feet of rope and 30 platinum pieces in his back pocket"?
Karui_Kage 07-12-07, 04:37 PM	I've always been of the "+100 bonus xp for a nice background" rule. Nice not being, like, crazy good, just something of a background, at least a couple paragraphs. You don't need to be a writer to play DnD, and penalizing players for not being one is just silly. Rewarding them though, is another thing.
Ace_of_Night 07-12-07, 04:39 PM	Then again, you don't have to be a brilliant writer to at least have 5-10 lines of background to at least describe your character in a nutshell.
058 07-12-07, 04:45 PM	Not to break off on another tangent (rather, I'm returning to a previous one), but forget the silk rope, why would a fighter be restricted from buying lockpicks? Regardless of whether it's a class skill or not, he does get skillpoints which can be put into cross-class skills. I'm sure there's a fighter out there somewhere who took Open Lock at some level.
uglykitten 07-12-07, 04:48 PM	I consider a background of a "poor" person to be spectacular if done well. I LOVE people who go the "I'm a poor peasant" route versus a nobleman. Do you SEE the enormous shopping carts some homeless guys push around? I usually reward those kinds of guys with a role-play scene in the beginning where they get their hands on some decent gold (usually about 100-200). I penalize people who don't think. You don't have to be a writer to tell me that you're adventuring to find a cure for a disease for your sick mom or that you want to hunt down and destroy the man who killed your parents. Or that you despise lycanthropes because they continue to attack your village even after you've left. Those are the kinds of things I can build a campaign around.
Ace_of_Night 07-12-07, 04:51 PM	You could only rule that it's overall harder to find lockpicks than rope as they're used for illegal purposes, mainly being breaking into other people's houses/belongings. But it would be silly to say the fighter can't find it and the rogue can only because the class differs.. Maybe you could however say you have to be part of the thieves guild to be able to buy them (Like in Oblivion you'd have a hard time finding a lockpick vendor if you weren't in the thieves' guild) And at uglykitten.. In the world of D&D there aren't people with shopping carts, and if you mean the ones in reality, don't make it sound like you actually envy the few items they have in a shopping cart to keep themselves alive.. honestly.
Karui_Kage 07-12-07, 05:08 PM	I think my only beef with the 'penalizing those who don't have a background' is that it penalizes a lack of creativity. It's a game. If the player isn't creative, they're already going to have difficulties staying alive as it is, they don't need to be additionally crippled at level 1. That said, if a DM ever institutes a policy where the player is penalized for a lack of background (rather than gifted for making one, as they are different), I highly recommend using some form of background generator. Give it to them, let them roll a few dice, and you have a background. If the player is too lazy to do that, then you just don't want them in your game.
DX2052 07-12-07, 05:10 PM	(Like in Oblivion you'd have a hard time finding a lockpick vendor if you weren't in the thieves' guild) And in Oblivion you can't sell a piece of bread because you stole it on the other side of the proverince, in addition you can simultaneously lead an Assassins guild and become a Paladin. Case in point:Oblivion is NEVER a good source of logic, and the series has gone downhill ever sense Todd Howard took over. anyways there is always the Oregon Trail Method, allow them to buy a few items in a bundle (such as the aforementioned bedroll, backpack, two potions cure light, tindertwig, and 50 feet of rope one) for a slight discount
Karui_Kage 07-12-07, 05:17 PM	anyways there is always the Oregon Trail Method, allow them to buy a few items in a bundle (such as the aforementioned bedroll, backpack, two potions cure light, tindertwig, and 50 feet of rope one) for a slight discount I believe the PHB2 suggests something like this. An "Adventurer's Pack", which costs roughly the same, but I think they made one of the items 'free' for part of the whole pack deal. Some 5-15 GP in savings, maybe more or less. I'd have to check.
Ace_of_Night 07-12-07, 05:26 PM	And in Oblivion you can't sell a piece of bread because you stole it on the other side of the proverince, in addition you can simultaneously lead an Assassins guild and become a Paladin. Case in point:Oblivion is NEVER a good source of logic, and the series has gone downhill ever sense Todd Howard took over. I was giving it as an example, not as a source of logic, not as an argument, just as an example, thank you. :) Additionaly, you didn't even notice half of the flaws about stealing items in oblivion. Like that the guards know exactly which goods are and aren't stolen when they catch you, that if you accidentaly pick something up you are arrested without a chance of giving it back, etc. :P Anyway, the OP's question has been answered some time ago now, I suggest we drop this conversation or continue it elsewhere.
uglykitten 07-12-07, 06:00 PM	I've been homeless before, I know how it is. Most homeless have a backpack scavenged from the trash (easy to find when students' parents throw 'em out every year and buy new ones). It's relatively easy to find handouts when you aren't dressed well, especially among the religious. I usually rule that homeless people can find shelter in temples, and usually clerics/priests will give them a little gold and maybe some items that they don't need. Additionally, I've had some PCs, upon discovering this, go from temple to temple of each god they can, and get as much as they can in the way of handouts. VERY good roleplaying opportunities ensue once the temples catch on. Also, I might be a little more BLESSED than most DMs in that I attend an art school. I DM other art students more often than not, and if not, they still have a creative streak in them. ^^; If you are in art school, if you just CAN'T create a character based off just a general D&D type setting, you shouldn't be there, IMHO. When all of your PCs AND you can draw the characters, their equipment, and the settings around them...you seriously should be able to make up a story.
Ace_of_Night 07-12-07, 06:18 PM	Hmm I'm at a uni for technical education, no trouble finding good players there either, as it tends to have quite a few... geeks. I can't put it differently I'm afraid. Most people playing D&D are a bit geeky in a good way. Me included. I'm a bit confused about whether you're meaning you've played a homeless PC or whether you as a person in real life have been homeless.. Kind of hard to read that from your post :P
uglykitten 07-12-07, 06:41 PM	^-^ Yup, techies tend to be geeky. As are computer animation majors, of which there are three in my group. In addition to the movie production major (same thing, only live action) and the odd fashion major with a love of anime and video games. She wants to make costumes for movies. Awesome girl. At one point, I myself was homeless. That's why I can identify so readily with a poor person in a D&D campaign so readily. I don't identify well with nobleman, because I've never been anything more than a poor girl. Now, I'm even poorer because of college. ^^; Luckily, there is a thing known as college loans that make it possible to pay for things like rent and food.
Karui_Kage 07-12-07, 07:05 PM	I've been homeless before, I know how it is. Most homeless have a backpack scavenged from the trash (easy to find when students' parents throw 'em out every year and buy new ones). It's relatively easy to find handouts when you aren't dressed well, especially among the religious. I usually rule that homeless people can find shelter in temples, and usually clerics/priests will give them a little gold and maybe some items that they don't need. Additionally, I've had some PCs, upon discovering this, go from temple to temple of each god they can, and get as much as they can in the way of handouts. VERY good roleplaying opportunities ensue once the temples catch on. Also, I might be a little more BLESSED than most DMs in that I attend an art school. I DM other art students more often than not, and if not, they still have a creative streak in them. ^^; If you are in art school, if you just CAN'T create a character based off just a general D&D type setting, you shouldn't be there, IMHO. When all of your PCs AND you can draw the characters, their equipment, and the settings around them...you seriously should be able to make up a story. Sure, if everyone is from an art school, then creativity is a different matter. I was going under a general assumption, not something as specific as making sure all your players are already involved in a school of creativity. :)
shadzar 07-12-07, 07:53 PM	this is one of the reasons i like to get background information on characters. poor farmers wont have as much money as merchants children. also if they were trained "profesionally" some of their money may have been spent in schooling and they could have picked up adnventuring gear there as well. if starting out from a poor farm or village would the player have access to better equipment? in a wealthy village would the player have a mount or pack animal? all these things make it fun for me as the DM to deteremine based on what the player choose. of course backgrounds shoulnd't be able to interfere with the game, but they should supply enough info to me to make understaning why the characters are adventuring and why they would have access to certain equipment and not to other, etc. or you could assign (read give) standard starting things that anyone adventuring would need, and give them some pocket money to buy the rest at the next big town they come to. things like clothes, blankets, a simple weapon, wineskin, etc. depends on really how in depth you want to get and how it is the adventuring party is starting out. were they hired and will ahev their gear provided, will they have worked to earn their money after leaving home, etc. i never found a reasonable need for the starting money tables save for a simple showing of what would be left after getting basic equipment based on training to become the class, and that wasn't really in depth enough for me to substantiate why players would have what it listed.
shadzar 07-12-07, 08:08 PM	~~~ If a merchant stands to make 10 times as much by selling an item that is by no means rare (unless you have some special rule that finding silk is incredibly difficult in your world) and only has the special quality that it *weighs less*, why wouldn't he sell it to the fighter? Why would the fighter have any more difficulty acquiring it than another class? i love me some greedy merchants. and with inflattion there is no telling how much something will cost in one "store"* versus another. store should be ready vendor, store, caravn, antwhere someone can buy something. and availability does vary jsut like price. if a PC wouldn't kow the difference between ropes, they might pay up to twice the book price for something. i enjoy roleplaying merchants they each have a personality, and some recognize certain people to their "liking" and may give them special discounts, or offer them things they would not normally offer to others. this may be how the lock picks get into the rogues hands but not the fighters. why would a law abiding merhcant just have lock picks out for anyone who walks in to buy? that would seem to raise suspicion from the local law enforcement.
Drausktanchache 07-12-07, 08:29 PM	I'm usually a little lenient because I know that somewhere in my capaign my nature will take over and the players will have a rough time..so I give them all the items they want (basically they've been training to lvl 1 and gaining items) I mean you don't just wake up one day "I want to be a rouge!", you train for it, so I give them starting eq of their choice from the PHB and then roll a standard amount of gold for everyone to have. (if a 1st lvl wants full plate let him, he'll need it :schemes: )