Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Slightly Shotgunned 03-03-05, 03:52 AM	I have a question (This is my first post btw.. yay!) I have been gaming for about 6 years now but am barely touching the DMing side. A friend of mine who is also female is very new at gaming but is very creative. She came up with a whole bunch of great ideas but there was a problem... she is new and still doesn't know all the rules. No matter how much reading and all you do, you still cannot master D&D in just 3 months. So she wanted to know if I would "Co-DM" which apparently people do this. :confused: Anyhoo, I do have a point. We had our first co-dm'ing session last week and I thought it went OK? but I think the guys in the group (minus one guy who happens to be my bf... he is very neutral *hi* :D ) were kinda being hard on us. I don't know if it is because it was our first time, or if it is because they have never had a female DM-- (then ya double the women power! ye-owsa!) Do they possibly feel that is just way too much estrogen? Even the guy I DIDN'T expect to act weird, kind of did. Have any of you guys out there have a female DM? Or currently have one? Do the guys give them a harder time? I have never had this problem because I am usually just chillin' and playing my character. It isn't horrible or anything... they were just being... weird. That is the only word that comes to mind. I thought of an example: There was a part in our campaign that they had to talk to a king and he was being very dumb and disrespectful. We should have thrown him in the dungeon for talking the way he did, but like I said, it was our first session and didn't think about it until one player mentioned it. But his normal gaming style is "paladin" type behavior... respect authority, etc. so it was "out-of-character" so to speak for him. The OTHER guy was joining in on the king bashing.. which I haven't seen either of them with any character so far do this. Well, thanks for listening to my rambling and if anyone has any input or advice, please do so. Slightly Shotgunned
Johnny3D3D 03-03-05, 04:03 AM	Honestly, I am not exactly sure what kind of advice you are looking for. I've heard of people co-DMing before, but I've never done it. I guess it could work, but I can see how it may be awkward too. I think things will probably get easier once she learns the game more, and the best way to do that is by playing. Maybe you could have mini-sessions with her to help her learn the game; she could always play as a character in your group's campaign too, but I'm getting the impression she has her heart set on being the DM. As for how they were acting, it's hard to tell; it could be any number of things. It's possible they could be giving her a hard time because of being female. It's also possible they were just giving her hard time because of being new. It may even be possible that they weren't aware of how their actions were making you feel.
weasel fierce 03-03-05, 04:04 AM	A lot of guys feel they have to show off, or act differently, when women are involved. Most of us get over it at some point. Usually around the age of 80 ;)
redmalis 03-03-05, 05:12 AM	I just thought I would chime in here. I introduced my wife to gaming a couple of years ago. Now that we are playing kind of a round robin dm game (everyone takes turn running and adv. but no one is sharing information or joining sessions) she is having to run a session or two every couple of months. The first time she ran, I think the other guys were a little hard on her. It seemed to me that it was more likely that they were just showing up like schoolkids do with a substitute. She was new to dming and did need quite a bit of help the first time or two. After a couple of sessions though she got her feet under her rules wise and (after declining my offer to talk to the other guys and tell them to settle down) really manage to set the tone for her own game and style. Since then she has had no more problems and her games have come to be pretty anticipated. I guess the point is...If they think they know the rules much better they might try to take advantage or they might just be testing to see what they can get away with. A dm, whether male or female, is responsible for setting the tone of the game (within reason). So don't be afraid to let them know that you thought their behavior was inappropriate or rude. If you two show that you are committed to good games and fair rulings, I bet your problem will just dissappear.
Temrek 03-03-05, 05:29 AM	When I have a new DM I ususally give them a hard time by acting weird and then tell them what I thought about their response after the session, I think it has helped them being better DMs. It might be something like that, why dont you ask them?
Nihillianth 03-03-05, 07:20 AM	In my opinion it's just a new situation your players have to get used to. It is difficult for a male who learned to play with a male DM switch to a female DM all out of the sudden. It's always difficult to get used to a new DM's play style, and being of the other gender is no bonus.
Nomad4life 03-03-05, 09:19 AM	We have a number of female players who can also DM, and its never been a problem for us. Then again, we’re all in our late 20’s/early 30’s, with most of us engaged or married already, so this may be a different group dynamic from yours. When things go wrong in sociological settings, it’s very natural to believe that race/class/gender is part of the problem… However, more often then not, these factors have very little to do with the equation. In other words, part of the problem may just be that you are a “new” DM more than being a “female” DM, and the players may just need to get used to this.
Kross 03-03-05, 09:41 AM	they probably wanted to cut her a break, if you think they weren't playing to their full
TrothgardtheMad 03-03-05, 11:13 AM	It has been my pleasure to play with women and have been DM'd by women, back in the hey-day of my college career. Most of the men there either fell into classic three groups : Test of authority: Which when the women DM'd, the guys would toe the line with over the top characters or doing things that were potentially bending the rules to their breaking point. Most of the women DM's were capable of nipping campaign breaking stuff, and rolled with the minor stuff, hurting us a thousand times over with the bent rules. Fluffing of Feathers: Usually with women players, but sometimes women DMs that certain guys had the "hots" for. Most of these were appointed by mastery of the rules, being helpful in sessions, and in case of women players, leaping to their defense when the fireballs came-a-hurtlin'. Reserved Weirdness: This was more a thing with guys, who to put it delicately, were socially awkward. They spent most of their time passing notes to DMs (if the DMs were male) or was nothing more than a shadow in the game. Their characters barely spoke more than 10 words a session, and often are found scouting far behind the group or following everyone's lead. They feared saying something wrong or doing something wrong to offend the female. In essence, were nothing like their usual selves. These weren't relegated to just females, but became a little more prevelant when their presence was around. As for Co-DMing advise (your post rambled, so I figgered to cover all bases), there are some good things about having a CoDM: Initiative Tracker: Having a person know who was going when in an initiative can be tough for a DM while he/she is thinking of tactical. This just speeds up combat to have someone keep track of who goes when. NPC personality: Having a DM who is like a best friend, you both know how the game should run and goals of the players. PC interaction with important, or even secondary, NPCs. This allows the DM to look up or read info that needs to come at a major point in the game. DMPC: This sorta goes with above, but is more of a longer uber-important NPC. This allows the character to have controlled power meted out by the DM as well as giving it a fleshed out personality. Combat Strategist: This allows the DM to arbitrate rules, but allows the CoDM to tactically make decisions (and play to the monster's strength) for the opponents the PCs face on the fields of battle. Note Taker: This allows the DM to carry the story forward, while the CoDM is the logger for the campaign. He/she takes notes about monsters faced, treasure, who owns what, and rules questions that need resolving before next session. The CoDM in this case is the face of the group generally, being a liaison between players and DMs for getting together. (kinda like a secretary) Rules-Looker-Upper: The DM needs a spell, a feat, or ruling on something in the twenty some-odd books they brought to group with them. CoDM can look up the info and mark or keep open the page that needs to be referenced by the DM in the next few minutes (this allows the DM to flow while the CoDM takes care of the mechanics). Hope this helps in a small way, Trothgard the Mad
Tevish Szat 03-03-05, 12:08 PM	i have never seen why gender is considered such an issue. My core gaming group consists of myself and three friends... Of which i am the only male. The brother of one of my friends plays on occasion. To date there have been no problems relating to gender conflicts. over the years of gaming with this group, about half of which have had me as DM, the other half with my Now (but not then) GF as DM, there have not been serious gender problems, and it looks to remain so. The player whos brother sometimes plays is going to take the chair for a while with her own campagin, and i don't forsee any change in the atmosphere around the table, save for that normally associated with having a different DM with a different style. The problem could easily stem from the double-DM setup. In myh experience, from when myh gaming group was new, Co-DMing falls to bits, as clearly defined "i'm in charge of this, your in charge of that" breaks quickly. HOWEVER to train a new DM in the rules (I was trained this way, and you can't teach imagination), have the new one play but as Assistiant DM/Honarary rules-lawyer. when seomthing needs to be looked up, theyh look it up. when a player tries to abuse the rules, they can call Foul. When you make a call, ask them for their opinion and reasoning, then state yours clearly. before you do this, make sure the group knows and is okay with the fact that this will be going on for the express purpose of training the new DM. If they aren't okay with having someone play and be trained (as is often best for the DM's sanity) THEN you take the trainee on as apprentice DM, without a PC character to run. Good luck. :cool:
Moon-Lancer 03-03-05, 12:25 PM	My GF is the dm of the current campain im playing. She lets me get away some stuff and is very strict with other stuff. She has a problem of keeping the story rolling and involving the charicter directly. She has lots of ideas but alot of it is lost in the translation of the game. I try to help out and give her charicter and story ideas and ways to impliment it into the game. I can look at her story in a 3rd persion perspective and usaly give good advice to keep the story roleing and the plot thick and keep everyone involved. I also help her out with the rules. I probably know more about the plot then the other players, but it helps me prepare to role play if i know its comeing. other then the above i think she is the best dm anyone could have. Most dms on the boards think that powerfull charicters are bad were she gets exited becuse she can use stronger mosters. Its very odd. anyway all and all its really fun. She has a nack for comeing up with awsome flaws that are alot funner to role play then the ones in unearthed archana.
psionichamster 03-03-05, 12:35 PM	i wish i could give you the cheat sheets i have, but i lost the doc. listing in my email...darn it... try this: google search for Reference Sheet v2.8...it's 3.0, as far as i know, but it's a great resource for easy, on-the-fly rules access, especially for new DM's (or those switching to new rules sets) also, check out the "DM Resouces" stickied thread up top of this board... the DnDResources.com page also has plenty of assistance progs and documents to help newbies get up to speed. of course, you could do it the way Dan and I did it...create the world together, create 1 pc each, play in each other's games (same world, same plots, same conflicts)... his strength: bizarre char's, intricate plotlines, and cosmologies/religions mine: reading (kinda a prob, if he can't get the rules right, eh?), rules knowledge, twisting plots to the nth degree, and char. development (english majors, the both of us!) together, we were able to slap together a unique, interesting campaign, where we each got to create and play at (almost) the same time. i miss that game, to this day... good luck, read through the FAQ's up top here, and keep at it... as far as "weirdness" goes: smack em around. when the get uppity with royalty, they get clapped in irons. when they insult that dwarf's beard, he puts a whuppin on em so on and so forth... namaste, the hamster ps, welcome to the wonderful world of DMing! :D h
Arquinsiel 03-03-05, 12:41 PM	The points about the "new dm testing" are valid but they may have had similar experiences with female dm's as I have. Specifically: they all seem to like player kills above and beyond what is normal. We've actually had one session which resulted in a TPK because the dm decided that this room contained and instant death trap that allowed no save but had a sign on the door outside. The kicker, none of us knew the language since it was one she had just (as in that instant) made up for some dead race and which was pictograph based much in the same way as hieroglyphics (ie: "There's a funny squiggle thing and a gopher wearing a chef's hat on the door. What do you do?"). Maybe they've had smilar experiences and are leary of it hapening again? If it is a problem with co-dming then Tevish Szat is right, that's the way to do it.
Treetrip Danglefoot 03-03-05, 01:07 PM	A lot of guys feel they have to show off, or act differently, when women are involved. Most of us get over it at some point. Usually around the age of 80 ;) This is in general what I would guess, at least from the information given. After all, we're all manly men pretending to be manlier men. Sometimes our manliness gets too manly when we have to be manly around the opposite sex. But acting all wierd (weird?) is a more or less unfocused manner of flirtation. As for co-dming. I've kind of done that. It worked out pretty well although the main DM dropped out after a while and I couldn't support the game myself. But I can certainly see its uses.
kejhix 03-03-05, 01:24 PM	Hello, Slightly Shotgunned. *smiles* How odd ... the set-up of your game is almost identical to mine. The campaign I am currently running is my second and on this one, I have a Co-DM. The similarity between mine and yours? We (the co-DM and I) are both female. We have 6 people in our group, aside from us, and 5 of the players are male. I'm not sure of the age-spread of your group (we are 20's-30's), so if your group is in your teens, the behavior of the guys in your group could be related to age--not sure. At any rate, the men in my group don't really have the habit of acting strangely in-game. They take the story-line seriously (for the most part) and try to act according to the personality of their character for in-game events that may occur. The only suggestion I can give you is to do your best to not get flustered over such odd behavior and try to take the time to consider how the game should proceed accordingly. For instance, in your example about them back-talking the king: Sit back for a moment and give them the "You're not SERIOUS ...?" DM look--all the while, thinking in your head how the king would react to such behavior. If he's a generally good king, he might give them a couple of warnings about their tone, then order his personal guard to place them under arrest. If he's a not-so-nice king, he might instantly order the guards to attack them for their insolence. Either way, whatever happens, they brought it on themselves. There are times when I have to look at my players (we all go off on tangents quite a bit) and ask them, "Are you ACTUALLY saying this in-game??" More often than not, they say, "No no, I was just joking. My character *actually* says, "XYZ ..." My thoughts are that they probably ARE toeing the line a bit to see how much they can get away with, and how you are going to react. The best response? Give them no slack--the king would not tolerate such behavior. If that means they end up in jail, and you cannot think of a good way to handle a jail-scene on the fly, then the session ends right there until you have time to consider how to best handle the situation. If it means their characters die an ugly death at the hands of the guards of the tyrannical despot ... it DOES suck a bit, but at that point, have them roll up new characters and they should have a healthier respect for what you as the DM are willing to do in-game if they deliberately flout the rules of "society". I have no idea if any of this helped, and I am also going to send you a private message with some more personal stuff that could potentially help you, but hopefully, this gives you some ideas. Also, it may help to know that you're not alone as a female DM with a female co-DM. ;) To give you some quick tips on how I handle the whole "co-DM" thing: - We have get-togethers a couple of times before the game to brainstorm on where to take the campaign, and how to handle the upcoming session and what's likely to occur during that time - I have *slightly* more experience than she does, so I am more the head-DM--but that doesn't mean that we both don't contribute equally. All it means is that the group looks to me more to make a call on something, and leaves her free to look up rules, spells, monsters, etc. Also, I am more aware of what's going on in the campaign over-all, whereas she is more in-touch with the details of what is going to happen within the next 10 minutes. She alters my descriptions, etc. of what is happening, if the situation isn't quite right for what should happen next. - Be sure and let both of you have moments in the "spotlight". We both know what's coming up, but often, while I'm in the process of getting the PCs to where they need to be, she is re-reading the minute details of the next encounter and is better equipped to take over at that point. For example: Me: You have traveled all day in this beautiful, lush forest. Everything has been very quiet, although not abnormally quiet. As you walk, the occasional rabbit darts across your path, and the sky is filled with the bright wings and songs of birds in flight. On toward late afternoon, the trees begin to thin a bit, and the ground becomes more of a mixture of soil and shale. As you break the treeline ... Her: ... you see a desolate, arid wasteland before you--one that doesn't seem to be a natural part of the countryside ... *continues with description of terrain that leads up to the next encounter* - Don't be afraid to take your co-DM aside into another room to discuss things privately. The players take a lot of time to discuss strategy, best approach, etc. before doing things in-game ... there is no reason why you cannot do the same. *smiles* At any rate, this post has been QUITE long enough. Just know that you aren't alone and if you ever have any questions that you can't or won't ask on the boards, my mailbox is available. :pint:
Nom 03-03-05, 05:52 PM	In my experience, "team" DM-ing can be distracting for players. As a player, I like to respond to one person, not continually wondering who is telling the story. That said, I don't see it as a bad thing, if there are clearly defined roles: * One person is the storyteller, the other is the consultant (manages notes, looks up rules, provides occasional comment). * Any swapping of roles occurs at clearly defined points, not mid-scene. Another option has the assistant playing minor roles in encounters (allowing two NPCs without breaking character), though be aware that every extra NPC in an encounter takes time away from the players; the players probably don't want to watch the two DMs RP with each other. An assistant DM can also help in tactical encounters, where one 'referees' while the other controls the 'bad guys'. That said, sometimes the best way to assist a new DM is simply to play in their game, and offer helpful commentary and guidance when they get stuck. The drawback of playing is that it becomes harder to provide pre-game assistance.
aaron3579 03-03-05, 06:28 PM	[considers not posting at all :thinks: ... decides to risk it] :doh: Stereotypically, men have a problem with feminine authority. It's in our genes. I have been called a chauvinistic egotistical pervert. To some fem-theorists that I know, this term is synonymous with the term male. I am almost inclined to agree with them. By ourselves, we are by and large a wonderful group of people. Add a woman into the mix, and it can go south in a hurry. I can only imagine what the typical D&D group would do when confronted with not one but two female DMs. Forgive me for asking, but do the males in your group find you or your friend attractive? Don't give me that blushing "I don't know" bulljive. Girls know. If they do find you attractive, then you have a double threat. Now you've got their hormones pulling them in two different directions: chauvinism v. the 'look at me' attitude. That can get ugly. Do I have anything positive to say? Yea, I'll try. My guess is that you are in for an uphill battle. You've got to stick to your guns. Every mistake that you make is going to be held against you harder than it would be if you were in possession of more 'assertive' anatomic equipment. Under normal conditions, a DM is in a good position if his knowledge of the core rules is comparable to that of his players. In your position, your knowledge of the rules must be superior to that of your players. Otherwise, you're going to make a judgment call that conflicts with the core rules, and instead of working with you, and helping you to resolve the issue, your players are going to think "Pff, what does SHE know?" Again, it's not our fault, we're just born stupid. :smirk: Of course, this could just be my naturally pessimistic attitude talking...
Mock26 03-03-05, 07:01 PM	http://www.kenzerco.com/periodicals/kodt/kodtonline050228.php (I don't think there is anything wrong with female DM's. I just found this strip funny!)
aaron3579 03-03-05, 10:55 PM	http://www.kenzerco.com/periodicals/kodt/kodtonline050228.php :whatsthis ........... :rofl:
On_the_wings_of_TPK 03-03-05, 11:45 PM	Edit: D'oh! Once again I havwe brilliantly forgot to check who I'm logged in as and accidentally posted as my fiance. My username, SS, is actually UltimateReality. I but I think the guys in the group (minus one guy who happens to be my bf... he is very neutral *hi* :D ) were kinda being hard on us. I don't know if it is because it was our first time, or if it is because they have never had a female DM-- (then ya double the women power! ye-owsa!) Probably both. After 2 years of gaming, I finally formed my own group and invited most of the "good" players from our old one to join, and tossed a couple of newbies into the mix. Surprise surprise, my boyfriend the ex-DM has provided me with the most grief thus far. Players, especially in our groups, always test the DM. The flak they give me is no more or less than they'd give any other DM. And players do try to test a new DM. My group breakdown, btw, is: -friend one, nice guy from old group -friend two, kick ass player (male) and friend from old group -my fiance, the ex-DM -my little sister, a newbie -ex-gf of a player in another group, also a relative newb -me, the female DM The girls are learning they have to shout over the boys to make themselves heard. I've told them they can sit by me and/or pass me notes if they want. So far they've been more on the RP end of things, but I find myself wrestling with discovering "my style". I'm excellent on the creative fleshing out parts, but actual coherent plot, and mechanics? Forget it... There was a part in our campaign that they had to talk to a king and he was being very dumb and disrespectful. We should have thrown him in the dungeon for talking the way he did, but like I said, it was our first session and didn't think about it until one player mentioned it. But his normal gaming style is "paladin" type behavior... respect authority, etc. so it was "out-of-character" so to speak for him. The OTHER guy was joining in on the king bashing.. which I haven't seen either of them with any character so far do this.Some of our players have a problem with this regardless of who's DMing. A few "do you really say/do that?"s later and they usually catch on. Also...don't be afraid to lay the smack down on the players when they misbehave! Let them die if they do stupid stuff! Tell them no if they try to pull stupid ****! I cannot tell you how many times someone asked me "can I have Feat X/Prestige Class Y?" My first response: "is it from the list of allowed source material I gave you?" Them: "uh, no". Me: "well then....no." You HAVE to be consistent and firm on this. Do not give an inch. Also, introduce and enforce the houserule that the DMs' houserules are final, and if they later reverse the ruling, the results of previous (mis)applications still stand. You will prevent a lot of headaches here, trust me. All this was one of my hardest lessons...see, secretly, I want the PCs to win, but I also remember how much I hated just walking through everything as a player. So of course in the second session my fiance's PC dies. OMG he got pouty...gave me grief for a week! I politely reminded him that I, too, had put plenty of hours into character background and planning at his games and I, too, had died lots. He seems to have finally gotten over it. I think he learned, too, he needs to base his concept more on what's already happened and the char's personality, with only a general idea of his/her goal, rather than specifics. I am beholden to try and work around players' wants, but they are similarly beholden to understand that they must work around campaign events and the world around them. In any case, basically what it sounds like to me is your players are hazing the new DMs. :P Give back as good as you get, stick to your guns, and you shouldn't have any real problems for long.
LadyDM 03-04-05, 12:18 AM	As an older female DM playing with younger guys and gals, it's hard to tell where the line of respect is drawn. By older I mean mid-30's and by younger I mean 18-22. My group is made up of 3 guys, and 2 girls. I have been DM'ing for about 2 years and have been playing for 15 or more. I started DM'ing in 2E and like everyone else, had to convert to 3.0 and now 3.5. The players started out in 3.0 and are more comfortable with it. I find there are times when a 2E rule will pop up in my brain and I have to readjust my thinking. All the while , the 3.5 guy who has read the DMG from cover to cover is insisting he is right and his character CAN weild a great sword with one hand. All that being said, I do find the guys to be more disrespectful than the girls. Guys brains are wired differently than ours from the very beginning when Mom and Dad hand him a football and her a dolly. Gender differences are there no matter what ANYONE else says. It's not right, it's not wrong, it just IS. Realizing that and figuring out a way to play and have fun can be a challeng, but I feel worth it. Your job is to ensure everyone has fun, enjoys the storyline and IMHO, doesn't get bogged down with the rules. Courage is called for, and since I get the feling you have it, being a female DM w/ a group of guys, just be true to yourself and don't let them bully or belittle you. This is supposed to be fun for YOU too, not just the players.
Greldinard 03-04-05, 03:13 AM	I never had problems while playing D&D with girls. I suppose it depends on how mature the players are. As for giving your friend a hard time; maybe this has more to do with experienced players pushing a new DM then with gender.
Slightly Shotgunned 03-10-05, 08:11 AM	Hello, Slightly Shotgunned. *smiles* How odd ... the set-up of your game is almost identical to mine. The campaign I am currently running is my second and on this one, I have a Co-DM. The similarity between mine and yours?... We have 6 people in our group, aside from us, and 5 of the players are male. I'm not sure of the age-spread of your group (we are 20's-30's), so if your group is in your teens, the behavior of the guys in your group could be related to age--not sure. For instance, in your example about them back-talking the king: Sit back for a moment and give them the "You're not SERIOUS ...?" DM look--all the while, thinking in your head how the king would react to such behavior... Either way, whatever happens, they brought it on themselves. There are times when I have to look at my players (we all go off on tangents quite a bit) and ask them, "Are you ACTUALLY saying this in-game??" More often than not, they say, "No no, I was just joking. My character *actually* says, "XYZ ..." ...At any rate, this post has been QUITE long enough. Just know that you aren't alone and if you ever have any questions that you can't or won't ask on the boards, my mailbox is available. :pint: I must say I do appreciate the replies and suggestions. My original post was a generalization (to keep it shorter), but to clarify a few key points: *The youngest player in our group is 20 ranging up to mid 30's. I think we are past the high school flirting years for the most part. Total for the game it is myself & the other female dm (who are the only females playing), my bf (True Archon), her bf (who my group of friends have known for a long time), and another one of our friends. We have two more guys that we play with but can't always make it to our gaming sessions. They are more like backup if they play our game. Mind you, we game at LEAST two times a week (on a slow week). Sundays are permanent game days that we play another guys game. AND have about 3 different games going at the same time. It does get very roudy sometimes and have to smack people back to reality. If we don't smack people, the line between out-of-game land and d&d land becomes fuzzy. Especially when everyone shows up. Big massive ball of noise. As far as our game goes we have this elaborate game set up and it just seemed that 1 of the 3 guys (her bf very oddly) was the one giving us the most grief. He was the one who was mouthing off to the king AND is supposed to be lawful neutral for the love of god! He wouldn't have acted this way if a guy dm'd the game is my feeling. I mean, half is just the way he is, but the other half is his... manliness? (haha) Forgive me for asking, but do the males in your group find you or your friend attractive? Don't give me that blushing "I don't know" bulljive. Girls know. If they do find you attractive, then you have a double threat. Now you've got their hormones pulling them in two different directions: chauvinism v. the 'look at me' attitude. That can get ugly. As far as us being incredibly hot chicks, yeah well, we just can't help it. (j/k) It is a small group and everyone has been friends for a long time. This is definately NOT the case. But you do have a point in there that I didn't consider before (and a few others posted too) that he could be intimidated by his gf for dm'ing and having these brilliant ideas... maybe jealous? He is a little sensitive. Nice, but just freaks out sometimes at small things. I will take these very good points, compile them, and talk it over with her the next time we meet to prepare. Thanks for everyone's advice. :bow:
Morka 03-10-05, 11:35 AM	*The youngest player in our group is 20 ranging up to mid 30's. I think we are past the high school flirting years. Sadly, it never really end. Some people are on the flirting mode for all their lives. Some other will calm down a few years, and the hormones will finally find their way back... :devil:
Thanatos02 03-10-05, 11:54 AM	It depends on your group, I guess. Ok, I'm a guy, and I'm attracted - as a rule - to girls. On the other hand, I've never had a problem playing with or having a game run by a female. More then that, our group has never had problems. We've had one female DM. I'm usually the DM, but she had a really good idea for a game that she was itching to run. Now, she's new at this, so the game was more linear then usual, but the group stuck by her, helped her get over the rough spots of DM'ing (It's not easy, if you've ever done it) and we had a really good time. It helped that she knew when to put the foot down and when to let the players go back and forth. I don't think guys have to act like idiots when a girl is playing, and I don't think guys really have a genetic tendancy to conflict with a female in power. If you've experianced these things, it's because our culture has told us that guys are tough and girls are weak, and they don't belong in power because they can't handle it. This is untrue, though, and most guys know that intellectually. Some, however, who have not had many dealings with girls or who have been brought up differently, have trouble recognizing this, and so have trouble with females in charge. It's worse with gaming, and I have a theory but it's really long, and I can't really back it up, since it's based on observation. But overall, being a girl gamer is just going to be a little rougher on ya. Not because girls have a harder time gaming, but because a lot of guys won't know how to react.
BW0222 03-10-05, 02:04 PM	Ok, if your group are in their 20s and 30s, they should be beyond most of the pre-teen sillyness and the teen-aged hormones. So my recommendations... First, skip the joint DMing thing. It's kind of hard to work in practice. It is typically easier to control a campaign when you only have one DM. It keeps players from hoping for different rulings from different DMs. The few times I've done the joint DMing it was either splitting a big table (10+ people) or I played an NPC to help a party through a module which I'd already played. Three months of D&D is actually enough to DM. If you are a good story-teller/actor, you can create and run a campaign. When it comes to combat, a 20+ year old will learn fairly quickly, and most good players are happy to step the DM through combat rules. Second, you may find that you have better luck helping to control other players as a player. For example, if you were playing a PC at the king encounter, you could easily lead by example (treating the king with utmost respect) or by challenging PCs who act in appropriately. i.e. start begging the king for forgiveness, stating that you don't know them, or smacking one in the back of the head. Males acting immature often start acting a lot more mature when a female player is playing well. Third, for first time DMing, keep the setting as low-key as possible. A tiny village, some encampment in the middle of the wilderness, etc. It is both easier to control the PCs if you control the environment and it's easier to create and run encounters. You don't want to do this forever, but it's easier to start with. Forth, try one-on-one sessions with players. Arrange some time for the DM to meet with each individually. This often works better when starting -- to introduce players to their PCs backgrounds -- but feel free to take players into another room (and/or pass notes) and give them information specific to them. For example, you notice that someone in the room is looking at the kings wife a lot. Fifth, come up with backgrounds and/or plots which only affect a specific PC. For example, a PC receives a note from his sister asking for some help in dealing with some man bothering their cousin. (Yes, Valglon, you have a sister and a cousin!), or maybe another PC has some strange old begger who follows hips PC around talking about some old war they fought together -- even thought the PC wasn't there. A few side plots often get folks working together. Sixth, sometimes sudden action and/or railroading works to keep folks on-topic. Having someone d-door into the middle of the tavern, summon a friendish tiger, and d-door away gets everyone working together mighty quickly. Seventh, in the case of your king encounter, an insult to a king should have serious concequences. These need not be fatal and you should give warning (although they should know better), but do feel free to toss in obvious non-lethal warnings. A silence, charm, or hold person spell from the kings advisor. Summon a trio of fiendish wolves around them. Have four guards walk up to them and put spears to their backs. Just toss them out and then have the 14th-level captain of the guard challenge someone to a dual. (Non-lethal, but the players should get the point when some PC takes 45hp of damage in a round, etc.)
Cathon 03-10-05, 03:57 PM	Hmm, I've never had a female DM, I think the only time I've had a female running the game I was in was at a convention doing an Amber Throne succession scenario. But, I can speak a little bit about Co-DMing. I've done a bit of that with a friend of mine who has similar DMing values. We basically created the world together, the religions, geography, history etc. Well, I did most of the geography, he did more work on gods, and we tossed ideas back and forth. For the actual playing, we divy up duties by adventure. We have new players and a fairly linear plotline, so we've been able to do this for the most part, though we did have some weirdness with the players leaving an area unexpectedly, I had to draw up the new area they went to between sessions, and then having them turn around and head back to the old area that was his responsibility. I think that was the only time we switched in mid-session. We also each created a DM-PC so when we weren't DMing we could play. We tried to make it so they weren't leader types so they could honestly get away with having the rest of the party make most of the decisions. It is useful to have the off-duty DM track initiative, or look up a rule for you while you continue with the game. We've also sometimes run things from different rooms when the party split up, (though this would be tricky for combat since we had characters as well). The real nice part is that you have someone who can give you feedback on your sessions and help you channel it into planning your next session. One thought that hasn't been brought up, multiple females tend to be more intimidating to men than a single female. Multiple females working together in a position of authority over you might be even more intimidating. I think the clearer you make things so the guys no what to expect the more relaxed they are likely to be, and the better they will start to act. If you can get them more into the game, into their characters and less aware of the situation, the better that is likely to go. You may just need a few sessions to iron the kinks out, really.
mcnoo 03-10-05, 04:20 PM	pet hate number 35 - people using the word female in everyday conversation like they're running a nature doccumentary. Such as "the only time I've had a female running the game". Female should remain an adjective, only being brought out as a noun on the discovery channel. Does this irritate anyone else or is it just me?
aaron3579 03-10-05, 04:57 PM	pet hate number 35 - people using the word female in everyday conversation like they're running a nature doccumentary. Such as "the only time I've had a female running the game". Female should remain an adjective, only being brought out as a noun on the discovery channel. Does this irritate anyone else or is it just me? Mostly I try to use male and female as adjectives, but when the fingers start flying, I sometimes forget which part of speech I meant to insert. I feel your pain, though. There are a few problems with the alternatives, however. For instance, if you don't know the age of the person about whom you are speaking, you don't normally say woman or girl. Chick sounds kind of demeaning, as do countless other slang terms that I won't mention on this board. Chicks can call themselves chicks all day long (as in the title of the thread) but inevitably, there is going to be a member of the gentler sex out there that will take offense to the word when used by a boy/man/dude/guy/........ :banghead: MALE. So, to be on the safe side, sometimes it is easier to just say male/female than to pick from a list of loaded terms... /end off topic discussion
mcnoo 03-11-05, 04:29 AM	Just always say girl, it works. No one's going to complain when you think they're youthful. /real end of OT discussion
Burgundy Lotus 03-11-05, 08:03 AM	Just always say girl, it works. No one's going to complain when you think they're youthful. /real end of OT discussion I've been called on using the word 'girl' a few times so that one isn't perfect but is probably the best of the bunch, I've heard some pretty bad ones. AS for the original topic I think some good advice has been given and you've been able to get what you need out of it so I really have nothing to add other then good luck.
True Archon 03-12-05, 04:25 AM	It's nice to see a bunch of people's recommendations, and it's greatly appreciated. BTW, I'm one of the players at this table. Ok, if your group are in their 20s and 30s, they should be beyond most of the pre-teen sillyness and the teen-aged hormones. Yep, for the most part it's all typical jokes and smart-***ed comments just about typical to most game tables. First, skip the joint DMing thing. It's kind of hard to work in practice. It is typically easier to control a campaign when you only have one DM. It keeps players from hoping for different rulings from different DMs. The few times I've done the joint DMing it was either splitting a big table (10+ people) or I played an NPC to help a party through a module which I'd already played. I agree on the joint DMing thing being hard in practice, but I think it's more of a "testing the DM waters" thing. I'm sure that it'll eventually turn over to only one DM. Second, you may find that you have better luck helping to control other players as a player. For example, if you were playing a PC at the king encounter, you could easily lead by example (treating the king with utmost respect) or by challenging PCs who act in appropriately. i.e. start begging the king for forgiveness, stating that you don't know them, or smacking one in the back of the head. Males acting immature often start acting a lot more mature when a female player is playing well. LOL, the whole King thing was definitely a screwed up situation. I think I would have been more than willing to "lead by example" if I had been feeling better at the time (I was in the midst of a nasty cold-flu thing... ugh.). As it were, I was very much under the weather, and not very active in the game. Seventh, in the case of your king encounter, an insult to a king should have serious concequences. These need not be fatal and you should give warning (although they should know better), but do feel free to toss in obvious non-lethal warnings. A silence, charm, or hold person spell from the kings advisor. Summon a trio of fiendish wolves around them. Have four guards walk up to them and put spears to their backs. Just toss them out and then have the 14th-level captain of the guard challenge someone to a dual. (Non-lethal, but the players should get the point when some PC takes 45hp of damage in a round, etc.) Which I brought up later when both of the DMs brought it up to my attention. Actions come with consequences in my games that I run, and I told them that it should be the same in theirs. Hello, Slightly Shotgunned. *smiles* How odd ... the set-up of your game is almost identical to mine. Wow, I found it very amusing to see the same similarities in gaming groups. LOL. The girls are learning they have to shout over the boys to make themselves heard. I've told them they can sit by me and/or pass me notes if they want. This is a good idea for a couple of players in my game. Interestingly enough, not both the girls in our group. Several of the players are very vocal in our group, and I've noticed that a couple of the players have a problem getting their chance to participate. Usually I just make it a point to look at the player, and ask them what their character is going to do. Maybe notes can help, as well. I never had problems while playing D&D with girls. I suppose it depends on how mature the players are. As for giving your friend a hard time; maybe this has more to do with experienced players pushing a new DM then with gender. I think that this is probably the situation we have, IMHO. It seems more like a "fresh meat" scenario to me. I've also noticed that in our group, when someone takes over the DM reins, it suddenly becomes a time for the previous DMs to give some grief back to the previous player-now-DM. Seems to occur in any group that I played with or seen. I wonder if it's just a RPG phenomenon that the gamemaster be razzed in this manner. However, I got to say that the girls did a great job on their first session, and I look forward to seeing more. I have a feeling that things will turn back to normal, given time. Now, I just need to get them to get onto their second session. So, any words of encouragement from you all would go quite far I think.
illiterate 03-12-05, 05:23 AM	Quagmire: 2 chicks and one Gm, eh? Googedigoogedigoo... Alright...