2 players? Help! [Archive] - Wizards Community

2 players? Help! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
sneak_Blast
05-11-06, 12:59 AM I am starting a lvl 1 campaign for two players. One will be a half-orc barbarian and the other is going to be a human sorcerer. They are lacking a healer and a trapfinder. How do I help them overcome these obstacles? I would rather not give them NPC or DMPC help. Any ideas?
Garuush
05-11-06, 01:10 AM I know exactly how you feel as I'm doing the same thing in my campaign. There's a few things that I've done and had to take into consideration.

The first is healing potions. I have to make them VERY plentiful in order to not have my player's characters spending weeks in game time inbetween adventures healing. I've had to lower the CR of all encounters dramatically to accommodate them ESPECIALLY in their begining levels. I've also encouraged multiclassing into other classes that will greatly assist them.

If you have the Unearthed Arcana book there's a section on Gestalt characters that you might want to consider for the small group. Or you can have them just play 2 PCs.

Just my 2 cents.
Dragonsblood
05-11-06, 01:18 AM There's NO ONE else who can join you? Try going to your local gaming store(s) and recruit some people. They usually have a message board with wanted ads. If that fails, or you really don't want to play with anyone else, I see 4 options:

1) Deal with it. Structure the game so that it's possible for them to survive without a healer and trap finder. Maybe include lots of healing potions, or give the sorcerer access to the cure spells or UMD as a class skill. Make traps disarmable by puzzles or logical solutions (IE blocking a trap blade with a rock).

2) Gestalt them. Basically this means give them the best features of both classes. The barbarian could get the skills, reflex save, and abilities/sneak attack of a rogue, and the combat abilities, bab, fort save, and HP of a barbarian. Or however you want to mix it up. This will make them much more powerful than regular PCs, but not quite as powerful as a group of 4 regular PCs so it can be tough to balance.

3) Let them play two PCs.

4) Play DMPCs. You can go with two approaches here. Either they stay out of combat and act as a healing battery and trap detector. Or the PCs issue basic commands (ones that wouldn't conflict with the DMPCs' personality) and maybe the players even control them in combat, while they stay in the background during the storyline. Notice with both approaches you, the DM, would have minimal control over the DMPCs but they're also not full on secondary PCs like option 3 - IMO this is the best way to handle DMPCs.
Necrosis
05-11-06, 01:21 AM well, you could do what you do in solo campaigns-give em a bonus class skill or two in critical areas if they are short-e.g. search spot listen as class skills, a bonus skill point or two so they can actually find em. That and potions.

I'm just starting a 3PC campaign and have granted them all little bonus abilities that they helped design into their charaters so they have a touch more flexiability and can roleplay a wee bit better.
Joe Khol
05-11-06, 06:00 AM I am starting a lvl 1 campaign for two players. One will be a half-orc barbarian and the other is going to be a human sorcerer. They are lacking a healer and a trapfinder. How do I help them overcome these obstacles? I would rather not give them NPC or DMPC help. Any ideas?
Traps are optional. If you want to use some, make sure there are options for the players to avoid them - someone has to know where they are and how to get around them, even if it's only the person who set them. Anyway, in the absence of a rogue, a combination of barbarian and spell caster is a good second choice.

Healing is even easier; magical items, potions or friend NPCs (not travelling with the party) can cover that. You could also allow the sorcerer to learn or research some form of healing spell.

In general terms, your role is to provide a challenging but entertaining game for the players. Obstacles the party has no way of overcoming (including avoiding) are no fun so don't use them. Rather than think of a 'default' style of campaign and try to adjust it to fit the party you have, take the party's strengths and weaknesses and build a campaign around them.

I've run everything from a solo-wizard to a party of five rogues on that basis and it's not let me down yet.
Zombie Carl
05-11-06, 03:03 PM Don't want to get hurt? Then don't start the bloody fight! Sorcerer = Charisma. Get flapping that mouth.

The party should be capable of recognising their own weaknesses. Numbers, healers, stealth are all things that are going to cause a headache for them as they don't have any of them (probably). So what can you do?

Well, assuming they are low levels, sleep is the daddy of low-level crowd control spells. Melee artists need cleave. Web is also a good one. Mirror image kicks ass too. If the fighters natural stats are good enough, two-weapon fighting is another way of getting through more opponents quickly.

Stealth is probably something the melee character should take anyway; getting the first, flat-footed hit in can swing a difficult battle.

Enemy healers will be a pain too; they will allow opponents to use attrition to win. And probably provide mid-fight buffs too. What can you do about it? Silence, i suppose.

Doubtless there are others, but this should get the players thinking along the right lines.

Also: Tell the players from the get-go; if they think they can't handle a fight, don't start it!
KJW
05-11-06, 03:16 PM Follow the link in my signature for the Guide to Solo Campaigns, it gives some tips for handling campaigns with one player, but it can help for two players as well. That said it really isn't that hard to run two players, you will have more time for roleplaying and combat will go quicker.

They may want NPCs in the party if not then you shouldn't use them, this is a decision for the players not the DM, so you might as well ask beforehand. Adding a NPC or two is no big deal and can really help the roleplaying, keep the NPCs simple and have the players run them in combat and you roleplay them the rest of the time. Like I said this is a player decision if you have NPCs or not.

Also design adventures where traps aren't so important and were healing is available, for example maybe they work for a temple which provides healing in between missions. Now dungeons would place them at a disadvantage so either keep the dungeons small or do other types of adventures.
BRJN
05-12-06, 11:50 PM I think you will end up having to give them NPC help. Even if it begins with the PCs saying, "Hey, lets go back to the Adventurer's Guild hostel and ask if there are any Rogues without plans for the night."

Also remember that a CR 1 encounter means that 4 PCs each at L1 will face a fair fight. If you have only 2 PCs, that means a fair fight for them is CR 1/2.

If the guys want to go into Nystuck's Dungeon of Trapped Passages even though they are underpowered and lack critical abilities, let them. After they find out about their problems, ask them what they want to do about it.

That all said, my preference would be to let each player have a 'primary' character - the one he really wants - and a 'secondary' character who fills out needed skills in the party.
Ryusage
05-13-06, 09:42 AM Well, the sorcerer at lvl 6 could take leadership and get a cleric and 5 followers... as for a trapfinder, just tell a follower to scout ahead :evillaugh :evillaugh:... only then the leadership score goes down... OK... you can get around this by simply getting them more gold after combat and suggesting they spend it on, let's say, potions of cure light/moderate wounds?

Another option, which I've used only once, is to put the players in a defensive style campaign... that is, have them control a fort/dungeon and defend it.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
sneak_Blast 05-11-06, 12:59 AM	I am starting a lvl 1 campaign for two players. One will be a half-orc barbarian and the other is going to be a human sorcerer. They are lacking a healer and a trapfinder. How do I help them overcome these obstacles? I would rather not give them NPC or DMPC help. Any ideas?
Garuush 05-11-06, 01:10 AM	I know exactly how you feel as I'm doing the same thing in my campaign. There's a few things that I've done and had to take into consideration. The first is healing potions. I have to make them VERY plentiful in order to not have my player's characters spending weeks in game time inbetween adventures healing. I've had to lower the CR of all encounters dramatically to accommodate them ESPECIALLY in their begining levels. I've also encouraged multiclassing into other classes that will greatly assist them. If you have the Unearthed Arcana book there's a section on Gestalt characters that you might want to consider for the small group. Or you can have them just play 2 PCs. Just my 2 cents.
Dragonsblood 05-11-06, 01:18 AM	There's NO ONE else who can join you? Try going to your local gaming store(s) and recruit some people. They usually have a message board with wanted ads. If that fails, or you really don't want to play with anyone else, I see 4 options: 1) Deal with it. Structure the game so that it's possible for them to survive without a healer and trap finder. Maybe include lots of healing potions, or give the sorcerer access to the cure spells or UMD as a class skill. Make traps disarmable by puzzles or logical solutions (IE blocking a trap blade with a rock). 2) Gestalt them. Basically this means give them the best features of both classes. The barbarian could get the skills, reflex save, and abilities/sneak attack of a rogue, and the combat abilities, bab, fort save, and HP of a barbarian. Or however you want to mix it up. This will make them much more powerful than regular PCs, but not quite as powerful as a group of 4 regular PCs so it can be tough to balance. 3) Let them play two PCs. 4) Play DMPCs. You can go with two approaches here. Either they stay out of combat and act as a healing battery and trap detector. Or the PCs issue basic commands (ones that wouldn't conflict with the DMPCs' personality) and maybe the players even control them in combat, while they stay in the background during the storyline. Notice with both approaches you, the DM, would have minimal control over the DMPCs but they're also not full on secondary PCs like option 3 - IMO this is the best way to handle DMPCs.
Necrosis 05-11-06, 01:21 AM	well, you could do what you do in solo campaigns-give em a bonus class skill or two in critical areas if they are short-e.g. search spot listen as class skills, a bonus skill point or two so they can actually find em. That and potions. I'm just starting a 3PC campaign and have granted them all little bonus abilities that they helped design into their charaters so they have a touch more flexiability and can roleplay a wee bit better.
Joe Khol 05-11-06, 06:00 AM	I am starting a lvl 1 campaign for two players. One will be a half-orc barbarian and the other is going to be a human sorcerer. They are lacking a healer and a trapfinder. How do I help them overcome these obstacles? I would rather not give them NPC or DMPC help. Any ideas? Traps are optional. If you want to use some, make sure there are options for the players to avoid them - someone has to know where they are and how to get around them, even if it's only the person who set them. Anyway, in the absence of a rogue, a combination of barbarian and spell caster is a good second choice. Healing is even easier; magical items, potions or friend NPCs (not travelling with the party) can cover that. You could also allow the sorcerer to learn or research some form of healing spell. In general terms, your role is to provide a challenging but entertaining game for the players. Obstacles the party has no way of overcoming (including avoiding) are no fun so don't use them. Rather than think of a 'default' style of campaign and try to adjust it to fit the party you have, take the party's strengths and weaknesses and build a campaign around them. I've run everything from a solo-wizard to a party of five rogues on that basis and it's not let me down yet.
Zombie Carl 05-11-06, 03:03 PM	Don't want to get hurt? Then don't start the bloody fight! Sorcerer = Charisma. Get flapping that mouth. The party should be capable of recognising their own weaknesses. Numbers, healers, stealth are all things that are going to cause a headache for them as they don't have any of them (probably). So what can you do? Well, assuming they are low levels, sleep is the daddy of low-level crowd control spells. Melee artists need cleave. Web is also a good one. Mirror image kicks ass too. If the fighters natural stats are good enough, two-weapon fighting is another way of getting through more opponents quickly. Stealth is probably something the melee character should take anyway; getting the first, flat-footed hit in can swing a difficult battle. Enemy healers will be a pain too; they will allow opponents to use attrition to win. And probably provide mid-fight buffs too. What can you do about it? Silence, i suppose. Doubtless there are others, but this should get the players thinking along the right lines. Also: Tell the players from the get-go; if they think they can't handle a fight, don't start it!
KJW 05-11-06, 03:16 PM	Follow the link in my signature for the Guide to Solo Campaigns, it gives some tips for handling campaigns with one player, but it can help for two players as well. That said it really isn't that hard to run two players, you will have more time for roleplaying and combat will go quicker. They may want NPCs in the party if not then you shouldn't use them, this is a decision for the players not the DM, so you might as well ask beforehand. Adding a NPC or two is no big deal and can really help the roleplaying, keep the NPCs simple and have the players run them in combat and you roleplay them the rest of the time. Like I said this is a player decision if you have NPCs or not. Also design adventures where traps aren't so important and were healing is available, for example maybe they work for a temple which provides healing in between missions. Now dungeons would place them at a disadvantage so either keep the dungeons small or do other types of adventures.
BRJN 05-12-06, 11:50 PM	I think you will end up having to give them NPC help. Even if it begins with the PCs saying, "Hey, lets go back to the Adventurer's Guild hostel and ask if there are any Rogues without plans for the night." Also remember that a CR 1 encounter means that 4 PCs each at L1 will face a fair fight. If you have only 2 PCs, that means a fair fight for them is CR 1/2. If the guys want to go into Nystuck's Dungeon of Trapped Passages even though they are underpowered and lack critical abilities, let them. After they find out about their problems, ask them what they want to do about it. That all said, my preference would be to let each player have a 'primary' character - the one he really wants - and a 'secondary' character who fills out needed skills in the party.
Ryusage 05-13-06, 09:42 AM	Well, the sorcerer at lvl 6 could take leadership and get a cleric and 5 followers... as for a trapfinder, just tell a follower to scout ahead :evillaugh :evillaugh:... only then the leadership score goes down... OK... you can get around this by simply getting them more gold after combat and suggesting they spend it on, let's say, potions of cure light/moderate wounds? Another option, which I've used only once, is to put the players in a defensive style campaign... that is, have them control a fort/dungeon and defend it.