Post/Author/DateTime	Post
twelvedrunkenmonkeyz 01-24-05, 11:06 AM	Ok my first question is, do swarms take half damage or no damage from weapons? My second question is a little more different. On multiple monster descriptions I have read Vulnerability blah blah blah. But it gives no description of what that vulnerability does to the creature. For the most part I would assume that if used as a weapon it does double damage or what? I have attempted to look up all the information on this but never find it. For instance the Red Dragon has a vulnerability to cold, so I assume that means he takes double damage.
On_the_wings_of_TPK 01-24-05, 11:42 AM	Not sure about the swarms, I don't use them myself. Vulnerablity: For the most part you are correct. Valnerablity means double damage from whatever it is the creature is valnerable to. Thus if our freind the red dragon is valnerable to cold, and Mr freeze blasts it with a cone of cold it takes double damage. becareful however becuase every now and again it may vary from creature to creature. Usually if it's different it say something about it the ability discription section in the monster entree itself.
twelvedrunkenmonkeyz 01-24-05, 11:50 AM	Thanks now I just need to figure out the deal with swarms, the reason is I don't really use swarms either, but I'm using one in this new adventure I'm writing.
KangTheCallipygian 01-24-05, 12:08 PM	Excerpt from "Swarm Subtype", From the SRD (Types, Subtypes & Special Abilities section): Traits: A swarm has no clear front or back and no discernable anatomy, so it is not subject to critical hits or flanking. A swarm made up of Tiny creatures takes half damage from slashing and piercing weapons. A swarm composed of Fine or Diminutive creatures is immune to all weapon damage. Reducing a swarm to 0 hit points or lower causes it to break up, though damage taken until that point does not degrade its ability to attack or resist attack. Swarms are never staggered or reduced to a dying state by damage. Also, they cannot be tripped, grappled, or bull rushed, and they cannot grapple an opponent.That's the real deal on swarms. Maybe I'm wrong here, but I suspect your confusion stems from the entry for bat swarms; they're diminutive (hence immune to weapon damage as per above), but the Monster Manual/SRD entry for this type of swarm says half damage from slashing and piercing... The spider swarm should also be immune to weapon damage, but its entry doesn't mention any immunity or half damage either way. The error for the bat swarm (and clarification of the spider swarm) was corrected in the official Monster Manual errata document, available from WotC's site. To me, the tricky part now is explaining that last hit, when somehow a single strike slays/routs all the remaining members of the swarm - even the ones in unthreatened squares. :) Hope that clears it up. Kang
twelvedrunkenmonkeyz 01-24-05, 12:23 PM	Thanx that does clear it up, I could've sworn on my DMG that I read through my MM and didn't read that on the Swarm Traits, it also confused me cuz I'm using the Dread Blossom Swarm from MMIII. So what I'm now wondering is if they take 1/2 damage from Piercing and Slashing because of swarm traits do they take 1/2 damage Piercing from their SQ? Making it 1/4 damage from Slashign and Piercing?
lurch_E_bean 01-24-05, 12:25 PM	Actually, in 3.5, vulnerability is no longer double damage. It's now 1.5x damage, regardless of any saves made or not made (3.0 it was only doubled on a failed save IIRC). As far as swarms go, most are immune to weapon damage and targeted spells, area effects are the only way to hurt them. I didn't know about the Tiny creature swarms, but I guess that makes a little sense, since a swarm of tiny (non-flying) creatures is only 300, not thousands like swarms of smaller things. As for killing off those last few with one mighty blow, I'd say a swarm loses one of the squares it occupies when it loses a quarter of its HP, so eventually it gets whittled down to one square. Then again, if the Barbarian gets a mighty blow in that does an insane amount of damage, you just have to wing it... :P
mercurial67 01-24-05, 02:05 PM	To me, the tricky part now is explaining that last hit, when somehow a single strike slays/routs all the remaining members of the swarm - even the ones in unthreatened squares. :)Basically consider it thinning the swarm down to the point it effectively has no effect. I once stepped out of my car and onto a fire-ant mound (in sandals no less) It took the equivalent of several rounds of my brushing and slapping to reduce the "swarm's" effectiveness. There were still a few ants crawling around, but not enough to have me hopping around muttering under my breath. You could reduce the size of the swarm down in size based on hp, but that goes against the philosophy of D&D: trying to make things simple.
twelvedrunkenmonkeyz 01-24-05, 02:16 PM	You like me are a true gamer, for only us few compare real life exp to D&D rules (For instance I have a Cha 16, a Str 12, Con 17, Dex 10, Int 14, Wis 10), not to mention I have Improved Critical (fists) and Improved Unarmed Combat. I also have the Neutral Evil alignment, and carry cursed wallet of emptiness. lol.
KangTheCallipygian 01-24-05, 03:22 PM	I'm using the Dread Blossom Swarm from MMIII. So what I'm now wondering is if they take 1/2 damage from Piercing and Slashing because of swarm traits do they take 1/2 damage Piercing from their SQ? Making it 1/4 damage from Slashign and Piercing?Generally, the 1/2 damage listed in the swarm's SQ is the 1/2 damage from swarm traits, so they shouldn't stack. I don't have MMIII, but if it's a swarm of tiny creatures, it should be 1/2 damage from piercing/slashing weapons - the swarms in the Monster Manual all list their swarm-traits-related immunities/fractional damages with their SQ. Except the rat swarm, but the same errata I mentioned before says that it should be listed there... I assume subsequent Monster Manuals kept to the same pattern. Glad to have helped, Kang