Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Temmogen 01-20-06, 08:54 AM	Greetings all... A friend asked me if a rogue with two weapon fighting performs a sneak attack, does the bonus damage apply only to the first weapon or to both attacks. As I couldnt find anything on the boards, and a google advanced search revealed nothing, I ask the community at large for an answer and possibly the location of the rule. I had originally said yes, but the longer I think about it, the more I seem to remember somewhere, that it says that is not the case. Any constructive help is appreciated.
JD 01-20-06, 09:00 AM	Sneak attack damage applies to any and all attacks as long as the target is eligible, yes. The penalties to hit are supposed to even this out, and those two reasons are why the TWF rogue is a very popular build. Just remember that to use more than one attack the rogue needs to use a full round action.
Mirage_1 01-20-06, 09:01 AM	Greetings all... A friend asked me if a rogue with two weapon fighting performs a sneak attack, does the bonus damage apply only to the first weapon or to both attacks. As I couldnt find anything on the boards, and a google advanced search revealed nothing, I ask the community at large for an answer and possibly the location of the rule. I had originally said yes, but the longer I think about it, the more I seem to remember somewhere, that it says that is not the case. Any constructive help is appreciated. sneak attack damage applies to any attack you make that fits the criteria for sneak attack, ie - flanking or denied dex modifier Example- You have 6 attacks due to two-weapons and high BAB. You make a full attack against a target that is flanked. Sneak attack die applies to all attacks.
LordLeecho 01-20-06, 09:08 AM	Also keep in mind that it applys to all melee attacks. Ranged attack are decided differently.
Wayward Son 01-20-06, 09:11 AM	It depends on why the rogue is getting Sneak Attack damage. If it is because the rogue is striking from concealment or invisibility, no, because only the first attack meets the requirements (see the FAQ). If it's because the rogue is attacking a flat-footed opponent during a surprise round or before the opponent moves in the first round of combat, yes, because the opponent meets the requirements during both attacks. If the rogue is flanking the opponent when making the attacks, yes, every attack meets the requirements (which makes a high-level rogue with iterative attacks a truly frightening opponent, when the rogue has a friend to flank with). Read up on the description of the Sneak Attack ability, as there are many, many exceptions and limitations to its use. Also, give the FAQ on the site here a good read, as many questions have been asked and answered about sneak attacks. Skip has a few articles on the topic as well, check the archives.
Rez 01-20-06, 09:42 AM	Two-Weapon Fighting Rogue=Nasty. I was in a game with someone who played a Halfling Rogue/Assasin w/two-weapon fighting and used Kukris I believe. Had weapon finesse, two weapon fighting, weapon focus, expert tactician....combat reflexes..nasty :) But yeah, long as the opponent is flat-footed or flanked, sneak attack damage applies with each attack if it hits. Not sure if it applies to damage if the rogue is greater invisibilitied though.
PenderGrass 01-20-06, 03:38 PM	This is one of the reasons why WotC needs to dump the term "Sneak Attack" - over and over again we see people confused by the name of this, previous editions and so on. :dragon: ****
YRM 01-20-06, 04:56 PM	Sneak attack used to be called "Backstab" but sneak attack is better. Essentially, it means, any time your opponent is distracted or off guard, you will be trying to stab them in the kidney or throat or heart or whatnot. For a pure Rogue to become good at two weapon fighting, they'll have to be pretty high level, and probably used feats that they could have used for other things. A Rogue/Ranger gets two weapon fighting much more easily, but loses out on some of the sneak attack dice due to Ranger levels. However, the Rogue/Ranger is more accurate and may apply sneak attack and favored enemy damage/bonuses to their attacks. Some of the simple ways to avoid taking sneak attack damage: 1 - Concealment. ANY concealment prevents sneak attacks (blur, darkness, and most fog/cloud spells). 2 - Improved Uncanny Dodge vs flankers (within 4 levels). 3 - Blindfight vs hidden Melee sneak attackers. 4 - Fortified armor. 5 - Other spells that confer ooze, plant, or undead traits to the target. 6 - Being able to reach vital areas (melee sneak attacking a Mountain Giant is impossible... or should be for most DMs). 7 - Being Undead, Ooze, or Plant. Also, to avoid full round sneak attacks on subsequent rounds when flanked, if you take a 5' step, diagonally, towards the non-rogue flanker, then the rogue would have to move more than 5' to flank you again with that ally. Of course, that doesn't stop people other than the rogue from moving so that they are flanking with the rogue, but, it can help.
Darkuwa 01-20-06, 05:59 PM	6 - Being able to reach vital areas (melee sneak attacking a Mountain Giant is impossible... or should be for most DMs). Yah, cause chopping somones achilles tendon in half definitly isn't attacking a vital area.
ressurrector 01-20-06, 06:12 PM	Yah, cause chopping somones achilles tendon in half definitly isn't attacking a vital area. There's actually a feat for use with sneak attack called hamstring, I remember from somewhere :D As far as the mountain giant, you could cut the femoral artery and watch it blead out; but if you try to SA a giant squid, when you can only reatch the tentacles, just ain't gunna work.
Rabscuttle 01-20-06, 09:33 PM	Yah, cause chopping somones achilles tendon in half definitly isn't attacking a vital area. Achilles tendon, Anterior Cruciate Ligament, the hamstring are all vital areass in my book. Damage to any of these would severly limit mobility and fighting ability.
Wayward Son 01-23-06, 09:27 AM	Achilles tendon, Anterior Cruciate Ligament, the hamstring are all vital areass in my book. Damage to any of these would severly limit mobility and fighting ability. They would not, however, be life-threatening injuries, which is what the SA ability represents. Since the comabt system doesn't get into effects of wounds in specific locations, those hits would just do damage as normal.
oxybe 01-23-06, 11:17 AM	no, but if the wound is deep & wide enough you can bleed. technically in D&D even if your fighter is at 1hp / 200 you can still fight as well as you did at full health, which means that even with your dozens of cuts, bruises, wounds and snapped bones you can still fight as well as you did when you were at full capacity... yeah, right spot on combat system alright. ;) anyways, when sneak attacking you have a good clue about where to hit, how to make it hurt and know when to take the opportunity. it's not just cutting a tendon or giving a minor wound, its shredding it apart and making a mess of the limb/spot you hit.
Ulrich Valdemont 01-23-06, 12:31 PM	They would not, however, be life-threatening injuries, which is what the SA ability represents. Since the comabt system doesn't get into effects of wounds in specific locations, those hits would just do damage as normal. They are life threatening injuries if someone stands in front of you and is trying to kill you with a weapon .... eh .... make that two weapons. So, to my opinion, SA damage applies. The extra loss of HP symbolises his struck ability to fight and defend himself. EDIT: remember that HP is only an abstract representation. Someone with a severed achilles has the odds turn on him, he's much more vulnerable. This is expressed in the loss of HP.
Silver.Lynx 01-23-06, 01:11 PM	for lower levels I prefer the slinging SA halfling. At 3rd level you could have BAB +2 MW sling +1 +4 dex +1 small size +1 halfling throw bonus = +9 attack with rapid shot (which can be attained by level 3) you could have +7/+7 d3+2d6+1str (avg 10 dmg / hit)
StormCrow42 01-23-06, 02:00 PM	for lower levels I prefer the slinging SA halfling. At 3rd level you could have BAB +2 MW sling +1 +4 dex +1 small size +1 halfling throw bonus = +9 attack with rapid shot (which can be attained by level 3) you could have +7/+7 d3+2d6+1str (avg 10 dmg / hit) That would be all well and good, except that you've forgotten one thing about slings. Loading a sling is a move action that requires two hands and provokes attacks of opportunity. While I expect many people forget this, a sling is no different than a light crossbow in this regard (except that you can't take the rapid reload feat for a sling).
trapspringer 01-23-06, 04:01 PM	So just use a skip-rock, you'll kill more people anyway.
Millennium 01-23-06, 04:48 PM	You need to re-evaluate after each attack whether the rogue is still eligible for Sneak Attack. Some circumstances, like invisibility or concealment, usually don't work after you've attacked once. But as long as the rogue remains eligible for sneak attack damage (and has attacks left for this round), he can keep on making attacks and they'll all get the extra damage if they hit.