28 point buy? [Archive] - Wizards Community

28 point buy? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
dmjacques
11-15-06, 09:08 PM Sorry if this dosent go here but whats 28 point buy?
Board_Rider
11-15-06, 09:27 PM 28 point buy is a system used to get the attributes for your PC. Basically you have 28 points to assign to your abilities where all abilities begin at 8. Check the DMG for actual point cost as it costs more "points" the higher the ability. For example, a 16 costs ten points where a 14 costs 6 points. Points are subtracted from 28 until you reach zero.
dmjacques
11-15-06, 10:57 PM Dunka shen( thanks much ) let this thread die and drown in the dark depth of my tortured soul as the sea of blood ravishes at it till its no more
KurenaiYami
11-16-06, 12:33 AM Dunka shen( thanks much ) let this thread die and drown in the dark depth of my tortured soul as the sea of blood ravishes at it till its no more

You sound fun. We should party.
dmjacques
11-16-06, 08:27 AM Ok * grabs razor blade and gun* your house or mine?
Millennium
11-16-06, 10:21 AM Another thing about point buy: it's relatively easy to increase or decrease your characters' relative power by altering the number of points. The three most popular numbers to use are 25, 28, and 32.

If you roll 3d6 for your stats, your average character will be roughly equivalent to a 15-point buy (i.e. you could build this set of stats with 15 points). Most of the sample "common" NPCs are built with 15 points.

"Standard" point buy is 25 points. This is what the monsters in the Monster Manual are created with. If you roll 4d6 and drop the lowest for your stats, you'll get characters equivalent to 25 or more points about 80% of the time. In other words, a 4d6-drop-lowest character will often have a slight edge over the monsters stat-wise. I believe that this is deliberate on Wizards' part. If you use 25-point buy it removes this edge, which makes the matches more even, but that makes things harder on the PCs.

28-point buy is also popular. This is the actual average character with 4d6-drop-lowest: you'll do this well or better about 50% of the time. This preserves the 'edge' of 4d6-drop-lowest without allowing things to get out of hand.

32-point buy is the most popular "high-powered" point buy. 4d6-drop-lowest does this well only about 20% of the time, so a party will almost certainly be significantly stronger if they're generated with 32 points than they would be if you simply rolled 4d6-drop-lowest.

I'm considering allowing my players to choose between 4d6-drop-lowest or 25-point buy next time, with a full explanation of the statistics. In short, a player who chooses 4d6-drop-lowest has an 80% chance of doing better than the player who chooses 25-point buy, but there's a price for that opportunity: namely, a 20% chance of doing worse.
calvinNhobbes
11-16-06, 10:30 AM "Standard" point buy is 25 points. This is what the monsters in the Monster Manual are created with.
This is incorrect. Most monsters in the MM are created using 15 point buy using 11,11,11,10,10,10 for stats, or 13,12,11,10,9,8 for stats. Both arrays are 15 point buys.
EDIT: The CR given for a monster is "balanced" vs a 25 point buy. Perhaps this is what you meant.
LCD2YOU
11-16-06, 10:32 AM It hoses MAD characters.

If the intent is to make everything level, then some classes need more points as they have to power up 5 stats compared to the others who have 2 or 3. Wizards and Sorcerers can actually get away with less.

Yes, before anyone says it, "The stacking that the MAD characters have even things out", or "heavy armor makes the difference".

A few things:

1: PCs don't start off with good stuff. Plate Mail is 1500gps. Fighting types start off with 150gp.
2: PCs have to survive the low levels to get the good stuff.
3: As far as stacking goes, if you have +2 but the other stats are +0, what have you stacked?

This is my opinion take it or leave it (if you wish to contest it I will defend it) but for games with point buy:

PB Mad gets:
22 25
25 28
28 30
32 32

After 32 the field does equal out. This does not make the MAD classes better than or even equal to (a 30 point Paladin is still inferior as a front line combatant than a 28 point Fighter) but the other things that makes them able to stack bonuses actually comes around.
Nom
11-16-06, 08:01 PM This is incorrect. Most monsters in the MM are created using 15 point buy using 11,11,11,10,10,10 for stats, or 13,12,11,10,9,8 for stats. Both arrays are 15 point buys.
EDIT: The CR given for a monster is "balanced" vs a 25 point buy. Perhaps this is what you meant.Elite monsters - those with class levels - do use the 25 point "elite array": 15,14,13,12,10,8. They also get max hp at level 1, just like PCs.
dmjacques
11-16-06, 08:12 PM you know I ask for this thread to die a painfull dark death please give the thread its wish?
calvinNhobbes
11-16-06, 09:25 PM Elite monsters - those with class levels - do use the 25 point "elite array": 15,14,13,12,10,8. They also get max hp at level 1, just like PCs.

Notice my post said "most" not "all". Reading is tech.
justdmjeff
11-16-06, 09:34 PM you know I ask for this thread to die a painfull dark death please give the thread its wish?

Put the words "point buy" into a thread title and it will live forever. MAWHAHAHAHAHAHA!
dmjacques
11-16-06, 09:50 PM So wiat in my attempt to make a thread with a short life span i have instead made a thread of invinsibility and imortality( nooo nerull why ) must go get my chain saw now and ficx this thread problem:D

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
dmjacques 11-15-06, 09:08 PM	Sorry if this dosent go here but whats 28 point buy?
Board_Rider 11-15-06, 09:27 PM	28 point buy is a system used to get the attributes for your PC. Basically you have 28 points to assign to your abilities where all abilities begin at 8. Check the DMG for actual point cost as it costs more "points" the higher the ability. For example, a 16 costs ten points where a 14 costs 6 points. Points are subtracted from 28 until you reach zero.
dmjacques 11-15-06, 10:57 PM	Dunka shen( thanks much ) let this thread die and drown in the dark depth of my tortured soul as the sea of blood ravishes at it till its no more
KurenaiYami 11-16-06, 12:33 AM	Dunka shen( thanks much ) let this thread die and drown in the dark depth of my tortured soul as the sea of blood ravishes at it till its no more You sound fun. We should party.
dmjacques 11-16-06, 08:27 AM	Ok * grabs razor blade and gun* your house or mine?
Millennium 11-16-06, 10:21 AM	Another thing about point buy: it's relatively easy to increase or decrease your characters' relative power by altering the number of points. The three most popular numbers to use are 25, 28, and 32. If you roll 3d6 for your stats, your average character will be roughly equivalent to a 15-point buy (i.e. you could build this set of stats with 15 points). Most of the sample "common" NPCs are built with 15 points. "Standard" point buy is 25 points. This is what the monsters in the Monster Manual are created with. If you roll 4d6 and drop the lowest for your stats, you'll get characters equivalent to 25 or more points about 80% of the time. In other words, a 4d6-drop-lowest character will often have a slight edge over the monsters stat-wise. I believe that this is deliberate on Wizards' part. If you use 25-point buy it removes this edge, which makes the matches more even, but that makes things harder on the PCs. 28-point buy is also popular. This is the actual average character with 4d6-drop-lowest: you'll do this well or better about 50% of the time. This preserves the 'edge' of 4d6-drop-lowest without allowing things to get out of hand. 32-point buy is the most popular "high-powered" point buy. 4d6-drop-lowest does this well only about 20% of the time, so a party will almost certainly be significantly stronger if they're generated with 32 points than they would be if you simply rolled 4d6-drop-lowest. I'm considering allowing my players to choose between 4d6-drop-lowest or 25-point buy next time, with a full explanation of the statistics. In short, a player who chooses 4d6-drop-lowest has an 80% chance of doing better than the player who chooses 25-point buy, but there's a price for that opportunity: namely, a 20% chance of doing worse.
calvinNhobbes 11-16-06, 10:30 AM	"Standard" point buy is 25 points. This is what the monsters in the Monster Manual are created with. This is incorrect. Most monsters in the MM are created using 15 point buy using 11,11,11,10,10,10 for stats, or 13,12,11,10,9,8 for stats. Both arrays are 15 point buys. EDIT: The CR given for a monster is "balanced" vs a 25 point buy. Perhaps this is what you meant.
LCD2YOU 11-16-06, 10:32 AM	It hoses MAD characters. If the intent is to make everything level, then some classes need more points as they have to power up 5 stats compared to the others who have 2 or 3. Wizards and Sorcerers can actually get away with less. Yes, before anyone says it, "The stacking that the MAD characters have even things out", or "heavy armor makes the difference". A few things: 1: PCs don't start off with good stuff. Plate Mail is 1500gps. Fighting types start off with 150gp. 2: PCs have to survive the low levels to get the good stuff. 3: As far as stacking goes, if you have +2 but the other stats are +0, what have you stacked? This is my opinion take it or leave it (if you wish to contest it I will defend it) but for games with point buy: PB Mad gets: 22 25 25 28 28 30 32 32 After 32 the field does equal out. This does not make the MAD classes better than or even equal to (a 30 point Paladin is still inferior as a front line combatant than a 28 point Fighter) but the other things that makes them able to stack bonuses actually comes around.
Nom 11-16-06, 08:01 PM	This is incorrect. Most monsters in the MM are created using 15 point buy using 11,11,11,10,10,10 for stats, or 13,12,11,10,9,8 for stats. Both arrays are 15 point buys. EDIT: The CR given for a monster is "balanced" vs a 25 point buy. Perhaps this is what you meant.Elite monsters - those with class levels - do use the 25 point "elite array": 15,14,13,12,10,8. They also get max hp at level 1, just like PCs.
dmjacques 11-16-06, 08:12 PM	you know I ask for this thread to die a painfull dark death please give the thread its wish?
calvinNhobbes 11-16-06, 09:25 PM	Elite monsters - those with class levels - do use the 25 point "elite array": 15,14,13,12,10,8. They also get max hp at level 1, just like PCs. Notice my post said "most" not "all". Reading is tech.
justdmjeff 11-16-06, 09:34 PM	you know I ask for this thread to die a painfull dark death please give the thread its wish? Put the words "point buy" into a thread title and it will live forever. MAWHAHAHAHAHAHA!
dmjacques 11-16-06, 09:50 PM	So wiat in my attempt to make a thread with a short life span i have instead made a thread of invinsibility and imortality( nooo nerull why ) must go get my chain saw now and ficx this thread problem:D