3 magic systems [Archive] - Wizards Community

3 magic systems [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Samurai Honor
04-01-06, 04:02 PM i am going to be dming soon and i am trying to figure out how to make all the magic systems fit into a social systems this is what i have so far:

royalty:psionics

middle class:arcane

lower class:incarnum

Divine found in all castes

any help would be great thanks

SH
WCH
04-01-06, 04:52 PM I just don't see this working. Arcane magic requires too much wealth and study to be in any way lower class -- wealth for the scrolls and spellbooks and all that. Divine magic, on the other hand, is the great unifier -- nearly all intelligent species have clerics, all human cultures and all alignments have them, etc. It's the one thing unique to nobody.

Psionics could work as a caste specific thing, not sure about Incarnum... definitely not arcane or divine.

Wizardry could be an upper class thing and sorcery could be a lower class thing, but both in one? No way.
Shedeo
04-01-06, 05:39 PM I'd have to say that this could work, excecpt that unfortunately WCH hit it on the head- Arcane magic takes too much money to practice. Were I doing something this way, Incarnum would be lower class- its a natural ability, and you dont need to spend money on items to take up item slots. I'd say then that Sorcery would be middle, with Wizardry upper-middle, and Psionics can stay as they are.
Pandaemoni
04-01-06, 08:26 PM I'd think Incarnum would make a good lower class system. It is based on the energy of spirits, and that sort of belief in the spirits of the world could easily be relegated to "superstition" or "ancestor worship" by the upper classes.

That said, I don't think you need one unified "upper class". You could well have a social class of psionic-users and one of arcane users or religious types all living side by side with no particular cultural superiority (though a lot of tension). Each might well be vying for supremacy against one another in the culture with different balances being struck in different towns/cities/regions/countries/etc.
Samurai Honor
04-02-06, 08:13 AM ok i updated it, what do you think now?
Witch
04-02-06, 08:19 AM I would make Bard Middle + Lower; Sorcerer Lower and Wizard higher.
That would make:
High: Psionics, Divine
Middle: Wizard, Divine, Bard (Court bards are usually middle class)
Low: Incarnum, Sorcerer, Bard (Travelling Minstrel)
DMJustbumper
04-02-06, 09:29 AM if you have access to the Tome of magic I would suggest adding pact magic to the lower class as well (and if you dont have it and are useing magic in this way go get it right now!) Then shadow magic could might be middle class (but maybe not) and truename magic upper class.
Samurai Honor
04-02-06, 12:37 PM i have looked at tome of magic and i have considered getting it and i think you might be right.
LivingShadow
04-02-06, 01:44 PM of cource you should have the lower magic types availible to the higher classes in the socil structure
Seeker of Undeath
04-02-06, 01:54 PM Divine magic users should be roughly equivalent to homeless beggars. :D
Samurai Honor
04-02-06, 04:06 PM Divine magic users should be roughly equivalent to homeless beggars. :D

explain your reasoning
Samurai Honor
04-02-06, 04:40 PM of cource you should have the lower magic types availible to the higher classes in the social structure

i will consider this.

SH
Samurai Honor
04-03-06, 02:47 PM does anyone have any more ideas?
Szat
04-03-06, 04:30 PM Nix the concept about truename magic and shadow magic. I'd say you should fashion your magical hierarchy similar to this....

1. Wizards & Psionics
2. Divine
3. Spontaneous Casting & Pact Magic

The ruling body of "magic users" are the Wizards or those that practice Arcane magic and prepare spells.

1. Wizards

A side branch of Wizards, Psionics extends from a particular bloodline. A noble family with far reaching alliances and power

1.1 Psionics

Divine occupies the middle ranks, it requires devotion to a deity or cause to improve in levels.

2. Divine

Sorcery, bard magic, pact magic and other spontaneous casters occupy the lower castes of society. These people cast magic from their force of will and have little to no understanding of the actual workings. Sorcerors simply cast, Binders call out to forgotten forces and Bards simply sing.

3. Spontaneous casters
kelvinaw273
04-03-06, 04:46 PM I have used a similar idea in a campaign setting I am working on, based around Ancient Egyptian culture.

Highest Level of Magic: Divine.
Divine magic comes from the gods, and you do not get higher than the gods. The Pharaohs are Priest-Kings (they are Aasimars rather than human) and have divine magic. Divine magic is available to all stratas of society through the cults and churches, but is regarded as the highest form. Not all priests have divine magic, but anyone of any social caste joining the church clergy and having an aptitude can rise up the ranks, even slaves.

Professional Magic: Wizardry
Wizardry is proffessional magic, the practitioners are regarded as you would regard skilled craftsmen in any trade. Like any trade, they actually cover a wide spectra of ability and prestige. The most powerful magicians work in the court or for the temples - the Cult of Isis has a number of Mystic Theurges in its ranks.

Lay-magic: Spontanious Casters
Anyone of any caste can have a wild talent for spontanious magic. Bards are usually lower-class casters, although some can achieve fame through their skill and gain a powerful patron, elevating their status. Sorcerers are nurtured by their families, as they can achive a status similar to a wizard's without having the training.

Hedge-magic: Adepts
Outside the big cities, small villages are often attended by Adepts who learn their art from parent to child.

Mystics: Psionics
Psionically adept characters are referred to as 'mystics'. They are recognised as having talent, but are oddballs outside society. They exist as hermits or small cults on the fringes of mainstream social life.
Samurai Honor
04-03-06, 07:08 PM hmmm i like these ideas i will use some of them.

SH
Tichrimo
04-03-06, 08:51 PM Hmmm... The mention of "bloodlines" got me thinking that spontaneous casters would be in the higher castes, not the lower ones -- they're the ones who inherit the ability due to their "better blood". The book-learning types would be lower-caste poseurs who can only emulate the abilities the upper class are just born with.
Athos
04-03-06, 09:02 PM I could see arcane beign lower class, what better way to keep the lower class low than to have them learn a form of magic they cannot get that powerful with without spending money... they don't have.
Samurai Honor
04-05-06, 04:03 PM hmmmmm i never thought about it that way

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Samurai Honor 04-01-06, 04:02 PM	i am going to be dming soon and i am trying to figure out how to make all the magic systems fit into a social systems this is what i have so far: royalty:psionics middle class:arcane lower class:incarnum Divine found in all castes any help would be great thanks SH
WCH 04-01-06, 04:52 PM	I just don't see this working. Arcane magic requires too much wealth and study to be in any way lower class -- wealth for the scrolls and spellbooks and all that. Divine magic, on the other hand, is the great unifier -- nearly all intelligent species have clerics, all human cultures and all alignments have them, etc. It's the one thing unique to nobody. Psionics could work as a caste specific thing, not sure about Incarnum... definitely not arcane or divine. Wizardry could be an upper class thing and sorcery could be a lower class thing, but both in one? No way.
Shedeo 04-01-06, 05:39 PM	I'd have to say that this could work, excecpt that unfortunately WCH hit it on the head- Arcane magic takes too much money to practice. Were I doing something this way, Incarnum would be lower class- its a natural ability, and you dont need to spend money on items to take up item slots. I'd say then that Sorcery would be middle, with Wizardry upper-middle, and Psionics can stay as they are.
Pandaemoni 04-01-06, 08:26 PM	I'd think Incarnum would make a good lower class system. It is based on the energy of spirits, and that sort of belief in the spirits of the world could easily be relegated to "superstition" or "ancestor worship" by the upper classes. That said, I don't think you need one unified "upper class". You could well have a social class of psionic-users and one of arcane users or religious types all living side by side with no particular cultural superiority (though a lot of tension). Each might well be vying for supremacy against one another in the culture with different balances being struck in different towns/cities/regions/countries/etc.
Samurai Honor 04-02-06, 08:13 AM	ok i updated it, what do you think now?
Witch 04-02-06, 08:19 AM	I would make Bard Middle + Lower; Sorcerer Lower and Wizard higher. That would make: High: Psionics, Divine Middle: Wizard, Divine, Bard (Court bards are usually middle class) Low: Incarnum, Sorcerer, Bard (Travelling Minstrel)
DMJustbumper 04-02-06, 09:29 AM	if you have access to the Tome of magic I would suggest adding pact magic to the lower class as well (and if you dont have it and are useing magic in this way go get it right now!) Then shadow magic could might be middle class (but maybe not) and truename magic upper class.
Samurai Honor 04-02-06, 12:37 PM	i have looked at tome of magic and i have considered getting it and i think you might be right.
LivingShadow 04-02-06, 01:44 PM	of cource you should have the lower magic types availible to the higher classes in the socil structure
Seeker of Undeath 04-02-06, 01:54 PM	Divine magic users should be roughly equivalent to homeless beggars. :D
Samurai Honor 04-02-06, 04:06 PM	Divine magic users should be roughly equivalent to homeless beggars. :D explain your reasoning
Samurai Honor 04-02-06, 04:40 PM	of cource you should have the lower magic types availible to the higher classes in the social structure i will consider this. SH
Samurai Honor 04-03-06, 02:47 PM	does anyone have any more ideas?
Szat 04-03-06, 04:30 PM	Nix the concept about truename magic and shadow magic. I'd say you should fashion your magical hierarchy similar to this.... 1. Wizards & Psionics 2. Divine 3. Spontaneous Casting & Pact Magic The ruling body of "magic users" are the Wizards or those that practice Arcane magic and prepare spells. 1. Wizards A side branch of Wizards, Psionics extends from a particular bloodline. A noble family with far reaching alliances and power 1.1 Psionics Divine occupies the middle ranks, it requires devotion to a deity or cause to improve in levels. 2. Divine Sorcery, bard magic, pact magic and other spontaneous casters occupy the lower castes of society. These people cast magic from their force of will and have little to no understanding of the actual workings. Sorcerors simply cast, Binders call out to forgotten forces and Bards simply sing. 3. Spontaneous casters
kelvinaw273 04-03-06, 04:46 PM	I have used a similar idea in a campaign setting I am working on, based around Ancient Egyptian culture. Highest Level of Magic: Divine. Divine magic comes from the gods, and you do not get higher than the gods. The Pharaohs are Priest-Kings (they are Aasimars rather than human) and have divine magic. Divine magic is available to all stratas of society through the cults and churches, but is regarded as the highest form. Not all priests have divine magic, but anyone of any social caste joining the church clergy and having an aptitude can rise up the ranks, even slaves. Professional Magic: Wizardry Wizardry is proffessional magic, the practitioners are regarded as you would regard skilled craftsmen in any trade. Like any trade, they actually cover a wide spectra of ability and prestige. The most powerful magicians work in the court or for the temples - the Cult of Isis has a number of Mystic Theurges in its ranks. Lay-magic: Spontanious Casters Anyone of any caste can have a wild talent for spontanious magic. Bards are usually lower-class casters, although some can achieve fame through their skill and gain a powerful patron, elevating their status. Sorcerers are nurtured by their families, as they can achive a status similar to a wizard's without having the training. Hedge-magic: Adepts Outside the big cities, small villages are often attended by Adepts who learn their art from parent to child. Mystics: Psionics Psionically adept characters are referred to as 'mystics'. They are recognised as having talent, but are oddballs outside society. They exist as hermits or small cults on the fringes of mainstream social life.
Samurai Honor 04-03-06, 07:08 PM	hmmm i like these ideas i will use some of them. SH
Tichrimo 04-03-06, 08:51 PM	Hmmm... The mention of "bloodlines" got me thinking that spontaneous casters would be in the higher castes, not the lower ones -- they're the ones who inherit the ability due to their "better blood". The book-learning types would be lower-caste poseurs who can only emulate the abilities the upper class are just born with.
Athos 04-03-06, 09:02 PM	I could see arcane beign lower class, what better way to keep the lower class low than to have them learn a form of magic they cannot get that powerful with without spending money... they don't have.
Samurai Honor 04-05-06, 04:03 PM	hmmmmm i never thought about it that way