3 PC groups [Archive] - Wizards Community

3 PC groups [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Dark Prince Illazar
10-22-06, 10:19 AM is there any thing special you need to do to run a group of only three PCs or do you just figer chalange rates and every thing as normal. I ask because it seems that the group i run is down to 3 for awile and we dont want to try and find a 4th just yet any and all comments welcome
cog_and_taz
10-22-06, 10:22 AM get them stuff that's 3/4th of the CR for their level, that's all, I think. Alternatively, run a non-egoflex mode DMPC( I know it's possible, I have a few) to round the number up to 4, be sure not to have the guy contribute anything they shouldn't know, he is basically there as something to help them in combat(doesn't mean he can't be an interesting char though)
True Cavalier
10-22-06, 10:24 AM I've always been playing with a group of 3 and it's always been alright with little or no changes.

I'd reccommend that you simply lower the challenges a bit but even that is not necessary most of the time.

Oh and treasure. Don't give three PCs treasure for 4 people :D
justdmjeff
10-22-06, 10:32 AM get them stuff that's 3/4th of the CR for their level, that's all, I think. Alternatively, run a non-egoflex mode DMPC( I know it's possible, I have a few) to round the number up to 4, be sure not to have the guy contribute anything they shouldn't know, he is basically there as something to help them in combat(doesn't mean he can't be an interesting char though)
Yes I agree. A Snuggywug would be a great idea. Just make sure you stay away from the Snuggywug d'oh.
aotrscommander
10-22-06, 10:46 AM Yes I agree. A Snuggywug would be a great idea. Just make sure you stay away from the Snuggywug d'oh.

*Shudder*

(And I think it's 'le d'oh'...wait am I inadvertantly supporting the use of this travasty to evil board members?! )

On topic: Be aware that it makes more than a 25% difference to the party in terms of bodies/targets. That is, if the situation starts to go pear-shaped, it goes from bad to worse to TPK much faster (because there's literally less folk around to patch to).

Also, be aware there is a possibility that the party may be deficint in one area with only three players.

Example from personal expereince:
Our current evil party started out with a cleric (going to fighter/templar/blackgaurd) an rogue (going to assassin) and a psychic warrior. For levels, the party's sum total of magical knowledge was my psychic warrior's cross-class Knowledge arcana! We also noticed a singnificant hit to healing (evil party + few members = painful). For the first few levels, most fights went by with the cleric and the rogue pretty badly banged up (I only got away through being AC man).

If you have a Good cleric, this may be less of an issue, but it still soemthing to consider.
Milandros
10-22-06, 10:52 AM It depends a bit on your players, but yes, it's not really a problem. Just be aware that there is one less of them and when in doubt, drop the CR slightly, or provide additional support.

Also be aware of the party composition. I've never been a big fan of the "if you don't have every skill and ability covered then it's my job as the DM to punish you for playing what you want to play instead of a carefully metagamed tactically balanced group" attitude some seem to have. If they have no cleric, provide an alternative source of healing magic. If they don't have an arcane spell caster, don't design encounters specifically intended to be cleared by mass use of fireballs. If you've got a sorceror, bard and warlock, constant encounteres with magic-immune golems is not going to be fun.

Just compensate a little, don't hit them for not having a "perfect" party, and enjoy.
WhiteRaven810
10-22-06, 01:14 PM Gesualt away!
Ryan_Singer
10-22-06, 03:48 PM Gesualt away!

I think he means Gestalt (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/gestaltCharacters.htm) away!

And he's right. Gestalt allows some synergies that will boost the party such that they will be fine. Also, it allows characters to fill multiple roles very well.
kelvinaw273
10-22-06, 05:54 PM Gestalt is good for a party that is starting or always going to be three or less characters.

For your situation, I suggest either reducing the CR by 1, or else providing an NPC-backup character.
trapspringer
10-22-06, 06:24 PM I think this is the perfect situation for a DMPC.

Run an archivist, from heroes of horror. Play him as a band-aid. Keep him a couple levels behind the party. You should be good to go.
Michelle
10-22-06, 11:39 PM My group consists of only three players as well (a rogue, a wizard and a cleric). I've mastered the first two sessions without any fourth help to see how it would go. But since the players are not into strategies and all, they are barely standing in the game, so I ended up placing and NPC for a while, until they could get on their feet. It also helped so that they could observe how to fight and think of strategies and etc, since they are new to the game.
theblindman
10-23-06, 02:37 AM It's not really any different. Your party will run down a bit faster than a four-person party, but a four-person party runs down a bit faster than a five-person party, and so on. There isn't really a "correct" number.

What was said about skill-deficiencies is important though. If you're short a rogue, you can't design dungeons that require a rogue to get through. And so on. You may have to keep a number of allies on hand, that the PCs can add to the party to overcome certain challenges.
Tytalus
10-23-06, 03:59 AM I see three main issues with small parties:

- It's harder (but not impossible) to cover the bases (healing, magic, combat, skills, traps). If your players are aware of that they can either create their characters to counter the problem (e.g., druid//rogue//wizard works well), use items/magic (wands of CLW for healing, for example - note that this is not the same as having a dedicated healer in the group), or come up with creative ways to overcome their deficiencies. Gestalt also solves this problem.

- Fewer characters result in fewer strategic/tactical options. If you need to split the party, for example, you might be in trouble. Flanking opponents, preventing opponents to pass a confined area, protecting spellcasters, etc. becomes harder. In short, if the party needs to be in multiple places at the same time, they must be creative.

- Of course, a 3-PC party is weaker than a party with 4+ characters. Encounters need to be adjusted approriately.

Options: Gestalt, Leadership, DMPCs (or Snuggywugs), PC classes with companions/thralls (e.g., druid, thrallherd, etc.), and in some extreme cases PCs with strong summoning abilities may even do.

Note that you don't need to have 4+ PCs to have fun.
razorboy
10-23-06, 08:06 AM I'm running a game with ostensibly four people though only three show up with regularity. I've found that it works quite well (the party actually managed through multiclassing and careful item use to be well-balanced: healing, tanking and ranged blasting are all blasting, as well as social skills). One thing I had to account for however, is that when they beat an encounter, the XP has to be divided three ways, not four or more, so they are actually getting more XP that in a game with more players. Since I prefer to level my players at a slightly slower pace than suggested in the DMG, I've had to scale back the XP rewards. But that could be just my party moshing through everything I send at them. :)
CharlieRock
10-23-06, 11:29 AM get them stuff that's 3/4th of the CR for their level, that's all, I think. Alternatively, run a non-egoflex mode DMPC( I know it's possible, I have a few) to round the number up to 4, be sure not to have the guy contribute anything they shouldn't know, he is basically there as something to help them in combat(doesn't mean he can't be an interesting char though)

I have done this a time or twelve. Alternately allow them a 'cheap' retainer. Rangers I use most often for the 4th 'Ghost' Player, since I can allow them to pick other classes and still have tracking and survival and the like, and then specialize in archery so I don't get too heavy into the combat , 'I'll cover you guys while you try and get closer' type of thing.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Dark Prince Illazar 10-22-06, 10:19 AM	is there any thing special you need to do to run a group of only three PCs or do you just figer chalange rates and every thing as normal. I ask because it seems that the group i run is down to 3 for awile and we dont want to try and find a 4th just yet any and all comments welcome
cog_and_taz 10-22-06, 10:22 AM	get them stuff that's 3/4th of the CR for their level, that's all, I think. Alternatively, run a non-egoflex mode DMPC( I know it's possible, I have a few) to round the number up to 4, be sure not to have the guy contribute anything they shouldn't know, he is basically there as something to help them in combat(doesn't mean he can't be an interesting char though)
True Cavalier 10-22-06, 10:24 AM	I've always been playing with a group of 3 and it's always been alright with little or no changes. I'd reccommend that you simply lower the challenges a bit but even that is not necessary most of the time. Oh and treasure. Don't give three PCs treasure for 4 people :D
justdmjeff 10-22-06, 10:32 AM	get them stuff that's 3/4th of the CR for their level, that's all, I think. Alternatively, run a non-egoflex mode DMPC( I know it's possible, I have a few) to round the number up to 4, be sure not to have the guy contribute anything they shouldn't know, he is basically there as something to help them in combat(doesn't mean he can't be an interesting char though) Yes I agree. A Snuggywug would be a great idea. Just make sure you stay away from the Snuggywug d'oh.
aotrscommander 10-22-06, 10:46 AM	Yes I agree. A Snuggywug would be a great idea. Just make sure you stay away from the Snuggywug d'oh. Shudder (And I think it's 'le d'oh'...wait am I inadvertantly supporting the use of this travasty to evil board members?! ) On topic: Be aware that it makes more than a 25% difference to the party in terms of bodies/targets. That is, if the situation starts to go pear-shaped, it goes from bad to worse to TPK much faster (because there's literally less folk around to patch to). Also, be aware there is a possibility that the party may be deficint in one area with only three players. Example from personal expereince: Our current evil party started out with a cleric (going to fighter/templar/blackgaurd) an rogue (going to assassin) and a psychic warrior. For levels, the party's sum total of magical knowledge was my psychic warrior's cross-class Knowledge arcana! We also noticed a singnificant hit to healing (evil party + few members = painful). For the first few levels, most fights went by with the cleric and the rogue pretty badly banged up (I only got away through being AC man). If you have a Good cleric, this may be less of an issue, but it still soemthing to consider.
Milandros 10-22-06, 10:52 AM	It depends a bit on your players, but yes, it's not really a problem. Just be aware that there is one less of them and when in doubt, drop the CR slightly, or provide additional support. Also be aware of the party composition. I've never been a big fan of the "if you don't have every skill and ability covered then it's my job as the DM to punish you for playing what you want to play instead of a carefully metagamed tactically balanced group" attitude some seem to have. If they have no cleric, provide an alternative source of healing magic. If they don't have an arcane spell caster, don't design encounters specifically intended to be cleared by mass use of fireballs. If you've got a sorceror, bard and warlock, constant encounteres with magic-immune golems is not going to be fun. Just compensate a little, don't hit them for not having a "perfect" party, and enjoy.
WhiteRaven810 10-22-06, 01:14 PM	Gesualt away!
Ryan_Singer 10-22-06, 03:48 PM	Gesualt away! I think he means Gestalt (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/gestaltCharacters.htm) away! And he's right. Gestalt allows some synergies that will boost the party such that they will be fine. Also, it allows characters to fill multiple roles very well.
kelvinaw273 10-22-06, 05:54 PM	Gestalt is good for a party that is starting or always going to be three or less characters. For your situation, I suggest either reducing the CR by 1, or else providing an NPC-backup character.
trapspringer 10-22-06, 06:24 PM	I think this is the perfect situation for a DMPC. Run an archivist, from heroes of horror. Play him as a band-aid. Keep him a couple levels behind the party. You should be good to go.
Michelle 10-22-06, 11:39 PM	My group consists of only three players as well (a rogue, a wizard and a cleric). I've mastered the first two sessions without any fourth help to see how it would go. But since the players are not into strategies and all, they are barely standing in the game, so I ended up placing and NPC for a while, until they could get on their feet. It also helped so that they could observe how to fight and think of strategies and etc, since they are new to the game.
theblindman 10-23-06, 02:37 AM	It's not really any different. Your party will run down a bit faster than a four-person party, but a four-person party runs down a bit faster than a five-person party, and so on. There isn't really a "correct" number. What was said about skill-deficiencies is important though. If you're short a rogue, you can't design dungeons that require a rogue to get through. And so on. You may have to keep a number of allies on hand, that the PCs can add to the party to overcome certain challenges.
Tytalus 10-23-06, 03:59 AM	I see three main issues with small parties: - It's harder (but not impossible) to cover the bases (healing, magic, combat, skills, traps). If your players are aware of that they can either create their characters to counter the problem (e.g., druid//rogue//wizard works well), use items/magic (wands of CLW for healing, for example - note that this is not the same as having a dedicated healer in the group), or come up with creative ways to overcome their deficiencies. Gestalt also solves this problem. - Fewer characters result in fewer strategic/tactical options. If you need to split the party, for example, you might be in trouble. Flanking opponents, preventing opponents to pass a confined area, protecting spellcasters, etc. becomes harder. In short, if the party needs to be in multiple places at the same time, they must be creative. - Of course, a 3-PC party is weaker than a party with 4+ characters. Encounters need to be adjusted approriately. Options: Gestalt, Leadership, DMPCs (or Snuggywugs), PC classes with companions/thralls (e.g., druid, thrallherd, etc.), and in some extreme cases PCs with strong summoning abilities may even do. Note that you don't need to have 4+ PCs to have fun.
razorboy 10-23-06, 08:06 AM	I'm running a game with ostensibly four people though only three show up with regularity. I've found that it works quite well (the party actually managed through multiclassing and careful item use to be well-balanced: healing, tanking and ranged blasting are all blasting, as well as social skills). One thing I had to account for however, is that when they beat an encounter, the XP has to be divided three ways, not four or more, so they are actually getting more XP that in a game with more players. Since I prefer to level my players at a slightly slower pace than suggested in the DMG, I've had to scale back the XP rewards. But that could be just my party moshing through everything I send at them. :)
CharlieRock 10-23-06, 11:29 AM	get them stuff that's 3/4th of the CR for their level, that's all, I think. Alternatively, run a non-egoflex mode DMPC( I know it's possible, I have a few) to round the number up to 4, be sure not to have the guy contribute anything they shouldn't know, he is basically there as something to help them in combat(doesn't mean he can't be an interesting char though) I have done this a time or twelve. Alternately allow them a 'cheap' retainer. Rangers I use most often for the 4th 'Ghost' Player, since I can allow them to pick other classes and still have tracking and survival and the like, and then specialize in archery so I don't get too heavy into the combat , 'I'll cover you guys while you try and get closer' type of thing.