Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ruindar 07-18-03, 06:57 PM	I was curious to hear your views about the rules and how it will effect your game.
Dungeon_Master 07-18-03, 08:22 PM	I'd prefer not to be having to pay 60+ bucks to update when the books have alot of the "same old same old" in them. :bored: I think I'll buy em anyhow though.
Mr. Dog 07-18-03, 09:00 PM	I'm torn. I like the new monk, it's a lot better now. I like the new ranger. A lot better now. New spell power is more balanced, and interesting. I like the extra caster level for range, duration, damage, etc. New Adamantine armor and weapons, especially the weapons. Ignoring hardness up to 20 rocks my world. :love: I dislike: New haste. The old one was overpowered, but it was great nonetheless. It was great for everyone. Now, it's great if you make full attacks a lot. Multiples of the same metamagic feat no longer allowed. I liked empowering things more than once, thank you. Math good. What else am I supposed to do with a 15th level slot in epic when I have improved metamagic a few times? New Horrid Wilting. I liked my max of 25d8, thanks. A twentieth level character with spell power of 5 could have a 25d8 direct damage spell in 3.5 if they'd left the spell alone. Is that so bad? It was one of the better spells to intensify as well. New Disintegrate. Gah. Let it vaporize things, fer cryin' out loud. If he has 1 HP left after I'm done casting the spell, I may as well have cast dancing lights on him if he gets to make a full attack afterwards and kill me. I suppose I'm being nit-picky, But spell focus was never that broken. Even GSF. When combined with spell power, sure, but that doesn't affect Save DCs anymore anyway. This brings me to the point I'm trying to make. They double-nerfed a bunch of stuff that was strong. Now it's overly weak. Horrid wilting was 25d8, now it's 20d6. As an 8th level spell. Spell focus and spell power got nerfed. One or the other would have been fine, guys. Stacking metamagic and buff spells. Buffs are a flat bonus for one minute/level now. Can't be empowered at all anymore, and even if they could, it would only be once. No need to neuter stacking if the spells it was abused on were nerfed already. There are other things too. I dislike the crit stacking nerf, but I get it, I understand that critting on a 12 is silly to some people. I think critting on a 12 is fine. A lot of things are immune to crits, and it's only HP. Healing is easy to come by. A massive damage save is DC 15. A first level wizard can make a DC 15 fort save with a good con and a slightly-above average roll (I know, the 50 damage would have already killed him). I like a lot of the stuff that was weak or pointless being revised, the harm and heal stuff being fixed, but some of the changes boggle my mind.
Flak 07-18-03, 09:19 PM	I'll stay with 2E with skills and powers.
unclejoey 07-18-03, 10:11 PM	I agree with Dungeon_Master, but I think the cost will be closer to $90. And I'll probably end up buyin em anyway... For now I'll stick with 3.0. I haven't had a problem with it.
Dungeon_Master 07-18-03, 11:56 PM	I've found places to get them for $20. Anyhow, I had a family member who happened to be traveling pick up the 3.5 MM tonight, so I'll have to wait till it gets here. Whoever said "waiting is half the fun" obviously never waited.....
Moblin 07-19-03, 12:02 AM	Well I bought all three books two days ago but I haven’t really hade the time to read them yet. I’ll try to post my opinion once I’ve had a closer look (like the new covers though).
BobtheMighty 07-19-03, 12:04 AM	I haven't stopped salivating since I bought the v3.5 core rulebooks a week ago.
Dungeon_Master 07-19-03, 12:06 AM	Hope I don't have to buy any more 3.5 upgraded books besides these........... I'm a bit short on cash currently. :(
boschdevil 07-19-03, 12:09 AM	I've bought them. Though I like most of what I read, my gaming group will probably just stay with 3.0 and add the things that we like. One item we have already added is the new buff spells.
MinusInnocence 07-19-03, 07:16 AM	Currently, you can find the guide to adjusting several of the non-core WotC supplements for 3.5. Fiend Folio, Monster Manual 2, Manual of the Planes, etc... on the Wizards website. I like what I've seen of 3.5 so far and I also like Wayne Reynolds' spiffy new DM screen that came with my latest issue of Dragon, heh. I will get a hold of the books when I get the chance, but I cringe to think of shelling out 90 more bucks. We'll see.
Malfecto 07-19-03, 07:31 AM	Well, I for one think the formatting is better done in the new DMG than in the old one. Everything seemed so scattered before, now the book seems to flow better. I haven't perused it overly much to say more than that, but you do get a nifty mat and some tiles you can copy in the back of the book. The PHB... well I think this is where a lot of the changes came in, mostly rules-wise, but also they changed some of the tables up in format which make them easier to read, EXCEPT the skills table which they bulloxed up with C and cc all over so its harder (for me) to read. The MM is much improved in the little tidbits that you get like the CR charts for demons and the round by round combat for greater monsters. Also the attacks are listed together with their damage so it makes it easier to reference. Hmmm... my only real complaint with the MM is that they didn't clean up the vermin section. The spiders and scorpion is all intersected with text, charts all over the place... arrrg! Anyway... the art that is new is great and stuff. Ummm... will give a mo' better review in a few hours when I have had time to really sit down with all three. Oh yea forgot to mention the beginnings of handling epic level characters included in either the PHB or DMG forget which... the extra prestige classes in the DMG, the feats for monsters in the MM... yea...
Bino 07-19-03, 12:59 PM	I have not bought any of the books and I will not. My 3rd ed game is running just fine. Anyway, 3.5 buyers will rush out over the next few years and buy all the supplemental books and other paraphernalia only to have that too become obsolete when 4th ed comes out. Fool me once, shame on you... ;) The only problem I will now face is that there will be no more support for 3E. Then again, given the volumes of 3E stuff I have already collected but have yet to use, I still have several years worth of new material to game with. ;)
Lord Harley 07-19-03, 02:16 PM	Going from 2e straight to 3.5 I like it. Never played 3e so I don't know the changes. Other than what people have stated on the boards. Just choosing skills and feats gave me allot more RP possibilities. It’s kind of like letting a man drink when he didn't know he was thirsty, now that he has gotten a drink..... LH
Dungeon_Master 07-19-03, 04:07 PM	The new MM is simply this: great! They did a better job of organizing it. When I decided to get this, I was a bit skeptical of it being "same old same old", and true, it does list several monsters as they were in 3.0. However, they changed stats for some, and have done a great job of adding premade monsters (premade 4th lvl ogre barbarian, ect). They've also turned skeleton and zombie to templates, which is great, and added quite a few monsters. That, and the new artwork is quite good. All in all, worth the buy I'd say.
Tristan Avon Granvania 07-19-03, 05:07 PM	$90 only if you buy them in person. Go online. There. I haven't read them cover to cover yet, but so far I like. In the PHB I have gone over a couple of spells, and some of the classes, as well as read the feats. I think Haste should have been left as is in D20 Modern (+2 to AC), otherwise, I like. The MM has some awesome new artwork, sample advanced creatures. The Abyssal Basilisk comes to mind, the picture is just wild! Dragons have had their CRs changed. The new DR is better, though I thought for sure that dragons would have DR 5,10,15,20/Adamantine, their AC come from scales, not magic? The DMG I have only barely perused. What I like is the Eldritch Knight, the new Blackguard Picture, and the fact that the planes are explained (this way I don't have to pick up Manual of the Planes, I can just use my old planescape material). So my non-final verdict is: Excellent. One friend just said to me. Do you have to run d20 modern? Let's play 3.5. ~Evil DM
Dungeon_Master 07-20-03, 11:38 PM	I didn't buy it, but I looked through the art gallerty for the new DMG. That picture of the elf in the chainmail is kinda cool.
Drone23 07-21-03, 10:44 AM	I like the new revision. Actually reading it though, it's more of a new edition than a revision. If that much was "broken" or needed revision, they may as well have called 4th Edition. I like the combat rules the most. Cover and concealment have been streamlined. A creature either has cover (+4 to AC) or it doesn't. There are no degrees of cover. That's what I always hated, trying to determine how much cover a PC had. The same goes for concealment, it's a straight 20% miss chance now. Invisible creatures still get that 50% miss chance. The actions have been revised to standard actions, move actions, free actions, and full-round actions. Sorcerers and bards (only) can cast metamagic spells as full-round actions now (wizards can still cast them as standard actions). Attacks of opportunity are much easier to adjudicate, but line of sight and charging are more complex. Gnomes and dwarves gain Weapon Familiarity (treats exotic weapons as Martial weapons) with the gnome hooked hammer, dwarven waraxe, and dwarven urgrosh (respectively), but the half-orc doesn't get it with the orc double-axe. I think they should. Some of the races have extra abilities like dwarves receive a +4 stability bonus against trip and bull rush attacks. The gnome favored class is bard, not illusionist. The biggest problem I have is the new weapon sizes. A longsword can be either Medium-size (for Medium-size PCs) or Small (for halflings and gnomes). This reduces the damage for a Small longsword and is the same as a Medium-size shortsword, the only change is the weight, cost, and type of weapon (slashing instead of piercing). Even the critical threat range remains the same. So why not use a Medium-size shortsword? It weighs less, costs less, but does the same damage. I don't know, that's just confusing. But I do like that fact that my PCs staff of size alteration is worth 29,000 gp now. Before it was a measly 6,500 gp. And it has a lot of new powers like mass reduce person!
Twisted Puppy 07-21-03, 11:21 AM	I did go ahead and buy all three new books, and have to say I like most of the changes. The biggest effect in my campaign will be the 2 rangers in the party. I like what they did with the druid and ranger. The adjustment to the sorcerer was minor but I like them being able to change a spell they know every 4th level, gives them a little more flexibility. Not sure about the changes to haste and the buff spells, but I did agree that Haste was overpowered. New MM is great, and am going through the new DMG which so far seems pretty good.
Tzor 07-21-03, 11:42 AM	First of all I want to make it clear that I already have the books. I don't think I will be upgrading my existing campaign to the revision. My campaign is still low enough level so that it would cause minimial chaos, but I don't see the immediate need to do so. If I were starting a new campaign, I would definitely use it, and if I had a campaign with new players I would absolutely use it. I feel that one of the biggest changes made in the revision was the reorganization of some elements (especially in the DMG) to be more logical for people just learning the game.
weaponsmith 07-21-03, 11:59 AM	I like almost all the changes i read so far. I plan to upgrade the game im running now after i understand all the changes first.
Elendur 07-21-03, 12:24 PM	I have all three books and I like most of the changes, but it won't be going into my game any time soon. There are just too many changes. As the DM I will be responsible for all the rules changes since my players don't have the new PHB. It will take a long time for me to understand how all the changes will affect the game. I'm pretty sure I won't be using two major changes, the weapon sizes and the new facing rules, but omitting those things may break other things, so I'll have to think about it. I will start using the MM 3.5, it is immediately useful, with better stat blocks, monster advancement, and overall better layout.
Flak 07-21-03, 04:00 PM	Originally posted by Lord Harley Going from 2e straight to 3.5 I like it. Never played 3e so I don't know the changes. Other than what people have stated on the boards. Just choosing skills and feats gave me allot more RP possibilities. It’s kind of like letting a man drink when he didn't know he was thirsty, now that he has gotten a drink..... LH I prefer the skills and powers stuff over the feats and such...that's where a lot of the feats and such came from, originally. They just changed some of the rules, simplified some things, and called it 3E...I like the complexity of skills and powers, myself. I may not know all the 3E rules, but I know enough to prefer 2E w/ skills and powers.
Zaebos 07-22-03, 04:44 AM	Yes yes, flak, we know you like your 2e, but we are talking about 3.5 here (pat pat on the head). So far so good. I for one have always thought that a lot of the spells were over powered. I am happy with all the spell changes. I am not happy that they didn't touch on the actual broken rules (in my opinion), like casting defensively and that an AoO still doesn't disrupt spells (I do not think a caster should be in melee anyways, so to me, allowing a caster in melee situations is giving them more power than they deserve). I like most of the class changes except that the the half orc doesn't get the double ax as a racial weapon (i think i will add that in). I have a question about where the partial charge went to. The way 'charge' is worded (page 154-155 PH 3.5) it seems that you can charge with a standard or movement action if thats all you can take only moving your speed (not double) (it does say charge is a full round action). The question is, can you ready a charge? I think you can, but it doesn't say anywhere in the rules (explicitly as in 3.0 did) that you can. I like the clarity on combat, and definately like the new (added)rules on grappling. I definately like the new format for the DMG. The MM has way more clear rules on advancing monsters (thank god). There isn't a whole lot I don't like about it. Taken as a whole, there wasn't a whole lot of mechanically different rules. Some of the new feats are a bit hokey (easily could have been a web enhancement for feats that give two skill bonuses) to make room for other, cooler feats. For the most part I like the skills changes too. I am still out on the new space/reach rules, but the more I think about them, the more they make sense.
king_of_evil007 07-22-03, 12:10 PM	I don't feel like shelling out another 180$ (Canadian, 60$ each) just so I can give Wizards more money, for something that (from what I've heard) basically just prevents players from using any of the combos (imp. crit and keen, empowered bulls strength, etc) I may get the new MM(better organization), and the new DMG (for better organization of stuff & new magic items) but I probably won't get the new PHB unless it's reccomended by very many enemies.
NinjaHedge 07-22-03, 12:42 PM	I don't like it I've been reading a bit of the "changes" supplement, and every new line I read I think to myself "what the heck were they thinking?" scry using a willsave? +1 with spellfocus? I understand why the changes needed to be made. There were loopholes that would destroy your game, and they did clear up some of those loopholes. However, the method they went through to do such really makes me start to lean back on the "money making scheme" side of the debate; I cannot believe they would be this stupid on accident. They've taken a bunch of stuff that was completely useless except in weird cheesy situations, removed the weird cheesy situations, and left us with a bunch of completely useless stuff. They took a bunch of stuff that worked perfectly fine, and changed it so it didn't anymore. It's like when you go into the car repair shop and they fix your car, but break something else so you have to come in again. And I thought they were posting all the changes online? All I see is a little teaser, that functions no more then a ad for the real thing.
Zaebos 07-22-03, 02:02 PM	Originally posted by king_of_evil007 I don't feel like shelling out another 180$ (Canadian, 60$ each) just so I can give Wizards more money, for something that (from what I've heard) basically just prevents players from using any of the combos (imp. crit and keen, empowered bulls strength, etc) I may get the new MM(better organization), and the new DMG (for better organization of stuff & new magic items) but I probably won't get the new PHB unless it's reccomended by very many enemies. I paid $134.65 CDN for my books at my local gaming store. Thats $41.95 CDN each + GST. I will say it again, I LOVE THE CHANGES TO THE SPELLS, because spells were way over powered. the 12thlevel wizard always outshone the 12th level barbarian in combat. Now maybe we will have a bit more balance in the party. I do wish they added a few things to the sorcerer, so I am going to add eschew materials as a bonus to that class at level one as well. I was making scry a will save most of the time anyways in my game, so this isn't a problem. But I think the nerfing of spellcasters is well justified, but still not enough. I am going to keep my house rule of 'Casting defensively is DC 15 + (2 x Spell Level)' though. I don't think its a money grab. Although every company wants to make money, I personally think that the heart was in the right place. They could have easily put out a 3rd printing with errata if they wanted more money, instead, they put out a better product, one that I belive will make the game move much more smoothly and have fewer areas for interpretation and debate.
king_of_evil007 07-22-03, 02:16 PM	Originally posted by Zaebos I paid $134.65 CDN for my books at my local gaming store. Thats $41.95 CDN each + GST. Wow, I guess I really overestimated those taxes. Not too bad a price actually, but still a little costly, considering how much I already paid for the game. Thanks for the info.
PenderGrass 07-22-03, 02:42 PM	I think the AWESOME graphic of the Nymph in 3.5 MM says it all! Once you see her - you won't wanna ever play with anything else;)
king_of_evil007 07-22-03, 07:49 PM	I just went out to the bookstore to check the prices for the books, and ended up buying the new DMG & PHB. I really like the new covers, and some of the new art inside is really good. I love what they've done to the combat chapter. The diagrams really help demonstrate stuff like line of sight well. I haven't read much of the books themselves yet, I just looked at the new art, but overall it looks pretty good. I am glad it doesn't have "What we've changed" notes all over the books.
Ulorian 07-22-03, 08:06 PM	Originally posted by Zaebos I paid $134.65 CDN for my books at my local gaming store. Thats $41.95 CDN each + GST. amazon.ca.. $101.01 for all three, including GST :D
Burgundy Lotus 07-22-03, 08:37 PM	Amazon.ca just shipped my order so I'll get them by the end of the week. All three books came to $101 Cdn :P: I'll slowly implement them into my existing campaign as the need arises.
Dungeon_Master 07-22-03, 10:57 PM	Originally posted by PenderGrass I think the AWESOME graphic of the Nymph in 3.5 MM says it all! Ya, one of my players kinda liked that one..... It was ok, I guess. I kind of liked that elf in the chainmail in the DMG though. Nymph was ok though.
seandpconners@aol.com 07-23-03, 12:34 AM	Originally posted by Dungeon_Master Ya, one of my players kinda liked that one..... It was ok, I guess. I kind of liked that elf in the chainmail in the DMG though. Nymph was ok though. Eventually..................
Zaebos 07-23-03, 01:35 AM	Originally posted by Ulorian amazon.ca.. $101.01 for all three, including GST :D Don't wanna wait, sides, credit cards are bad, mmmkay.
afromonkey 07-23-03, 04:40 AM	If i was only to get one of the new revised books, then which one should i get ? I was thinking DMG
Ulorian 07-23-03, 06:29 AM	Originally posted by Zaebos Don't wanna wait, sides, credit cards are bad, mmmkay. I'm getting mine today - I'm happy to wait a couple of extra days if I can get ~40% off the cover price. By the way.. why are credit cards bad? For the type of person who lets debts pile up, I guess they are bad (although in this situation, it's the person who has a problem, not the credit card). For people like me who maintain a zero balance, they are fantastic.
Dungeon_Master 07-23-03, 01:00 PM	Originally posted by seandpconners@aol.com Eventually.................. I don't know. In a way, the elf was better looking. To me anyhow.
Zaebos 07-23-03, 02:53 PM	Originally posted by Ulorian I'm getting mine today - I'm happy to wait a couple of extra days if I can get ~40% off the cover price. By the way.. why are credit cards bad? For the type of person who lets debts pile up, I guess they are bad (although in this situation, it's the person who has a problem, not the credit card). For people like me who maintain a zero balance, they are fantastic. Refuse to go into debt, hopefully one day I will be able to use my debit card for online transactions. I never liked credit cards, never will. I prefer to pay with cash. Its not that its bad for the type of person to let debts pile up, its bad because I rather not rely on an iffy institution to lend me money. Legalized loan sharks, no thanks.
The Mad Hatter 10 6 07-23-03, 02:57 PM	I have been aquiring the material ghetto fabulous style (i.e. downloading, printing, and slipping the SRD into sheet protectors). I think I will stick to that for a little while. Honestly I seem to be pretty amiable to the changes I have read so far. I am suitably impressed with the new list of feats... the list of feats in the 3E PHB were pure CRAP, certainly because of the total LACK of a nice selection... MUCH better this time around. I am still angry that WOTC stuck it to the consumer this way and I know I will purchase the books eventually... but I can still be bitter about it. I am still predicting that WOTC will be shoving 4th edition down our throats by 2006, all that is left is to see if my prediction is accurate. So in summary, pleased with the new stuff so far... bitter that we had to pay 90 bucks to get something they should have done the first time around.
Ulorian 07-23-03, 03:21 PM	Originally posted by Zaebos Refuse to go into debt, hopefully one day I will be able to use my debit card for online transactions. I never liked credit cards, never will. I prefer to pay with cash. Its not that its bad for the type of person to let debts pile up, its bad because I rather not rely on an iffy institution to lend me money. Legalized loan sharks, no thanks. Your statements don't make much sense. By your logic, banks are legalized loan sharks because they lend you money. VISA and MasterCard make money off the poor shmucks who by things on credit and don't pay off their balance before the end of the month. If you don't maintain a balance, the use of the card is absolutely free. Credit cards save you from having to carry large wads of cash around. They are also great for traveling; travelers' cheques are not always honoured, but if you deposit money into your credit card account (so that your balance is negative), you can make cash advances against this credit at any bank. Because you have a positive balance on your card, the credit card company can't charge you any interest on the cash advance (although the credit card company does charge you the small fee for making the cash advance, but this is comparable to the fee you pay to buy travelers' cheques). And by the way, I am debt-free despite being married, owning a car, having had a student loan, and having owned a house. Also, I don't believe that the paper currency you carry around is actually your property. The Canadian government owns it. So I guess it is a legalized loan shark also!
Zaebos 07-23-03, 03:25 PM	Your getting off topic here. Suffice it to say, anytime you borrow money from anyone, you become in debt to them. I prefer not to be in debt to anyone anymore (my student loans are finally paid off), so I wont. I use my debit card for everything. I suppose I can go get a chequing visa card, but right now, its not a priority. I do not need to be at the mercy of anyone, therefore, I do not need to go into debt. BACK TO THE TOPIC AT HAND!!!
Ulorian 07-23-03, 03:38 PM	Originally posted by Zaebos Your getting off topic here. Suffice it to say, anytime you borrow money from anyone, you become in debt to them. I prefer not to be in debt to anyone anymore (my student loans are finally paid off), so I wont. I use my debit card for everything. I suppose I can go get a chequing visa card, but right now, its not a priority. I do not need to be at the mercy of anyone, therefore, I do not need to go into debt. BACK TO THE TOPIC AT HAND!!! Hey, you started this discussion, not me. But you're right, we've been hijacking this thread. Apologies to the original poster. (I still think you have a poor grasp of finance if you think owning a credit card puts you into debt or at anyone's 'mercy' :rolleyes: (read my previous post to learn differently).. but hey, that's your business.) Anyway, I received my 3.5 books this morning (I thought they'd be delayed for a while since I only placed my order with Amazon on July 6). I've only flipped through them briefly (I work out of the house, but I've got a deadline looming), but what I've seen seems pretty good. I especially like the new mechanics for detect spells (clerics and paladins emitting auras is a great idea). Thumbs up to the new ranger too.
Basaxerxes the First 07-23-03, 04:51 PM	So far I've liked what I've seen, pretty much. One thing that jumped out at me during the first flip-through of the PHB was the re-organization of the spell list, so that e.g. Greater Magic Weapon is now on the same page as Magic Weapon. This I like. As far as the actual changes to rules are concerned, I haven't yet made up my mind, but my overall impression so far has been quite positive, especially the simplification of much of the combat section. The spell-casters in the group I'm DM-ing seem to think they've gotten the shaft a little bit, though.
king_of_evil007 07-23-03, 08:46 PM	Just bought the Monster Manual and spent last night reading through the first little bit of the PHB. . . Pros (so far) - As I said before, love the new art. - Spell organization is logical now, with the various Masses, Minors and Greaters located on the same page (or on adjacent pages), so it isn't a headache when I have to look up something. - new PrCs in the DMs guide are good - nerfing of certain spellcasting - Planes information in the DMG [/i]Cons[/i](so far) - several of the new PrCs are ripped from Dragon or the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting (wouldn't kill you to make something new) - nerfing of the melee (I will allow Imp. Crit & Keen to stack) - nerfing of the Duelist PrC - overall, too much nerfing - Planes in the DMG (I bought my MotP, and now it's useless!)
Arilou_skiff 07-23-03, 08:48 PM	Personally I think it smells of rip-off to release it this early... Also many of the changes (Some are undoubtly needed) seem superflous and many changes weren't made that ought to have been made.
Zaebos 07-23-03, 09:44 PM	I cant say that the MotP is useless. The DMG touched briefly on each of the planes, but the MotP is still very useful... EXTREAMLY useful in my campaigns.
Flak 07-23-03, 10:52 PM	Originally posted by Ulorian (I still think you have a poor grasp of finance if you think owning a credit card puts you into debt or at anyone's 'mercy' :rolleyes: (read my previous post to learn differently).. but hey, that's your business.)Any time you use a credit card, you are in debt until you pay it off. I, personally, use a credit card, and pay it off every time I use it, but I am in debt until the company receives payment. Some people do not like to be in debt for any amount of time, however short. You have a poor grasp of finance if you don't know that use of a credit card causes debt, if only until the bill comes.
AlteredEgo 07-24-03, 01:30 AM	Not going to bother to read through everything here at the moment. Personally, I like it. Not liking the $90+tax, but hey, I guess the folks at WotC have to eat too, right? Not to mention that I bought them from my best friend, who manages a WotC store, so I get to help him out also. Double happy bonus. I like the new artwork, I like the clarifications, I like the new organization. I do think they nerfed some things that should have been left alone, and made some things overly strong that needed only a slight boost, and left a few things the same that needed a change (such as the hierophant spell levels -- archmages get 'em, they should too). Of course, there are things that each DM will change, and the changes I'll be making appear very minor at this point (hierophant changes and slapping mage armor back on the bard list, for example) My biggest issue is the automatic assumption that everyone will be using minis. 98% of our game time is spent without minis on the table, only big battles or ones where absolute precision and position are required use minis for our group. Other than that, things seem alright...
Kaya Kenobi 07-24-03, 01:38 AM	I am using the new SRD, it's quite complete and it works fine for me. As for 3.5, I hated the PHB, and I wouldn't buy it. And the DMG and MM are about the only things almost worth getting, if not for the fact that the new DMG has many things at my fingertips and I don't need to refer to 10 different books for rules on creating magic items, traps, etc...
Basaxerxes the First 07-24-03, 11:16 AM	I've had a bit of a longer look at the PHB now, and I can add to earlier comments that I like the simplified jump skill, and I'm pretty much a fan of the new combat section, again for reasons of simplicity. It's also rather nice that they've brought in a lot of the stuff from the supplements (I have to haul my D&D stuff back and forth across town for gaming nights, and my shoulder joints will be much happier if I can leave a few things at home). Actually, I haven't seen much about it that I don't like (aren't I a big bundle of positivity this morning!), although like many I'm not that overwhelmed about shelling out the big bucks. One thing though - I'm still hearing from the people in my group who play spellcasters that they're feeling a bit ripped off by the changes to many of their favourite spells. Anyone else been hearing similar opinions, or holding similar opinions for that matter?
Zaebos 07-24-03, 01:54 PM	Originally posted by Flak Any time you use a credit card, you are in debt until you pay it off. I, personally, use a credit card, and pay it off every time I use it, but I am in debt until the company receives payment. Some people do not like to be in debt for any amount of time, however short. You have a poor grasp of finance if you don't know that use of a credit card causes debt, if only until the bill comes. Wow, hey thanks Flak, for backing me up on this one Never expected the day... :D
Ulorian 07-24-03, 02:27 PM	Originally posted by Flak Any time you use a credit card, you are in debt until you pay it off. I, personally, use a credit card, and pay it off every time I use it, but I am in debt until the company receives payment. Some people do not like to be in debt for any amount of time, however short. You have a poor grasp of finance if you don't know that use of a credit card causes debt, if only until the bill comes. I can't believe what I'm reading.. I love a hair-splitter.. OK, fine. I use my card, go home and pay it off online. Wow, I am in debt for the length of time it takes me to drive back home, boot up my computer, and make my online payment! Since my bank issues my credit card, my credit card company has now been paid off! But OMG, I was in debt for a few minutes!!!!!! The horror! Congratulations, you win! :rolleyes: If Zaebos feels that this half hour of being in debt is a threat to his well-being, or whatever his story is, like I said earlier, it's his business.
Irishevil 07-24-03, 02:44 PM	I like some of the ideas in 3.5, the class changes are great, I HATE the spell changes i think the DR is a little more interesting. However, looking at my mountain of 2nd Ed. books covered in dust, and my stacks of 3rd ed. stuff well used, I can't bring myself to buy 3.5. If Wizards of the Coast offered a buy-back policy, in where you send back your original core books, and get half off the 3.5 books I would probably go for it... sigh, to live in a dream world!
The Mad Hatter 10 6 07-24-03, 03:24 PM	I do have to say that I think a lot of the spell Nerfs were stupid. Harm included. There was absolutely nothing wrong with that spell. It was essentially unchanged for 20 years with 1E and 2E, but then 3E comes along and WHAM! People start screaming, "NERF IT!" I didn't like the 3E version of Haste anyway, so I guess I will deal with the 3.5. There are many others I can rant about but those are the ones that stick in my mind the most.
NinjaHedge 07-25-03, 12:32 AM	Originally posted by The Mad Hatter 10 6 I do have to say that I think a lot of the spell Nerfs were stupid. Harm included. There was absolutely nothing wrong with that spell. It was essentially unchanged for 20 years with 1E and 2E, but then 3E comes along and WHAM! People start screaming, "NERF IT!" I didn't like the 3E version of Haste anyway, so I guess I will deal with the 3.5. There are many others I can rant about but those are the ones that stick in my mind the most. well, harm is a problem, but not for the reasons most people complained about. In a normal D&D, dungeon crawl, vanilla quest, it's perfectly balanced. It's only really usefull on the massively strong creatures, and you have to get a touch attack, and they can protect themselves from it with spells, ect, ect, and compared to a heal.....not that great. However, no save stuff can be dangerous, and when the only restriction is really touch attack, which can be circumvented quite easily in non-dungeon situations, and you're not in a battle, harm can be messy.
Labyrsman 07-25-03, 01:38 AM	My problem with 3.5 is simple, the reality wonks won. Perform, too unrealistic, so it got changed. Weapon weights, changed because they were too unrealistic. Buff spells were to abused by people who meta magicked them up with multiple maximise and empowers so they had free +18 3days straight. This got changed with the change to a specific amount, +4 which I don't mind, and the limit of 1 meta-magic of a type at a time. To then reduce it from 1 hour to 1 minute per level, was drowning the dead dog and burying it in the crossroads. I don't like the massive nerfs to skill items by increasing their prices to 5k-10k and/or cutting the powers down, i.e. Ring of Jump. Why should my armorcraft be tarred with the same brush as Use Magic Device items. etc..
Kaya Kenobi 07-25-03, 09:16 AM	Originally posted by Labyrsman My problem with 3.5 is simple, the reality wonks won. Perform, too unrealistic, so it got changed. Weapon weights, changed because they were too unrealistic. Buff spells were to abused by people who meta magicked them up with multiple maximise and empowers so they had free +18 3days straight. This got changed with the change to a specific amount, +4 which I don't mind, and the limit of 1 meta-magic of a type at a time. To then reduce it from 1 hour to 1 minute per level, was drowning the dead dog and burying it in the crossroads. I don't like the massive nerfs to skill items by increasing their prices to 5k-10k and/or cutting the powers down, i.e. Ring of Jump. Why should my armorcraft be tarred with the same brush as Use Magic Device items. etc.. You said it better than I.