Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Maladaar 10-11-03, 06:30 PM	I know this is in the 3.5e PHB on page 140 and covered by the Precise Shot feat on page 98. "If you shoot or throw a ranged weapon at a target in melee with a friendly character, you take a -4 penalty on your attack roll because you have to aim carefully to avoid hitting your friend." But my question (as a DM) is two part: 1. If the attack roll misses the intended target, is there an automatic re-roll to see if the missed attack hits your ally? 2. If two foes are fighting against your ally, is there supposed to be a chance that the errant missile weapon could hit the other foe? I thought I had read in one of the books the answer a while ago, but I can't seem to find it in any book. I am using the 3.5e of both the DMG and PH, so if anyone has the answer could you please post the book and page. Disclaimer: I am have pulling double shifts at work for a week and the answer could be right under my nose, but am so bleary eyed I may be missing it.
primemover003 10-11-03, 10:02 PM	While I can't seem to find this in the SRD, when you fire into melee, your allies may provide soft cover if they are in a direct line of fire from you to the enemy. In such an event they provide a +4 cover bonus to AC for your target. If your attack falls below the modified AC but above their normal AC it strikes the Cover (i.e. your ally). If the attack is enough to hit your ally they take damage, if not the attack as treated as just a miss. Funny part... If your ally has a Dex or Dodge bonus to their AC and the attack was enough to hit them without the bonus, but not enough to hit them with it then they actually miraculously dodge out of the way of the projectile as if they never provided the cover to begin with and you hit the Enemy!!! Screwy enough for ya???
Qaetar 10-12-03, 08:15 AM	From the 3.5 SRD, CombatII.rtf, pg. 4 Soft Cover: Creatures, even your enemies, can provide you with cover against melee attacks, giving you a +4 bonus to AC. However, such soft cover provides no bonus on Reflex saves, nor does soft cover allow you to make a Hide check. primemover003, that's from the 3.0 PHB, page 133. I, personally, think this should have been a variant rule since it's more complex than most of the rules try to be. (Qaetar)
Drone23 10-12-03, 06:59 PM	You could house rule it so if a PC does miss, you have to roll on the missing with a thrown weapon table (3.5 PH, page 158) to see if the PC hits their ally or not. If the shot goes in the other PC's general direction, make another attack roll (with the soft cover modifier if the opponent is between the two PCs). Generally though, if a PC misses the opponent, then they miss the other PC as well. I like this better since it simplifies combat a bit.
primemover003 10-13-03, 06:37 PM	I know, but I haven't really caught all the changes in 3.5 yet. Some I'm puposefully ignoring, others I'm adopting with glee. Besides, it's only something a DM really has to understand and look for in combat... just like pretty much everything.
NobleRogue 10-13-03, 08:50 PM	Originally posted by Maladaar I am using the 3.5e of both the DMG and PH, so if anyone has the answer could you please post the book and page. PH pg 150 "To determine whether your target has cover from your ranged attack, choose a corner of your square. If any line from this corner to any corner of the target's square passes... blah blah or ... through a square occupied by a creature, the target has cover (+4 to AC)." If you look at the following page under "soft cover" - this refers to melee attacks specifically. However, if you're of the mind that the target does not gain the benefit of the +2 reflex and the ability to make a Hide check... soft cover (if not cover) may also apply to ranged attacks. so 1. defender gains +4 cover (soft cover?) while in melee... provided the melee attacker is in-between the ranged attacker and the defender. PH pg 140 "If you shoot or throw a ranged weapon at a target engaged in melee with a friendly character, you take a -4 penalty on your attack roll because you have to aim carefully to avoid hitting your friend" so 2. the ranged attacker takes -4 penalty to attack the defender even if he (the defender) is not in-between the ranged attacker and the melee attacker. one could rule that this is the threshold. if you miss where you otherwise would've hit... you hit the cover/ (friendly melee attacker). The -4 increases the possibility of hitting cover, or missing horribly I guess. Here's my take: ... if the defender chap is in the scenario where your melee attacking friend is in the way of your shot, you have a chance of popping your friend in the back of his jolly head. (soft cover all that rot - friend doesn't expect it you see... ah ha!) ... if the defender has his back (no cover!!!) towards you and your friend is attacking him from the other side... that -4 you took to your attack is preventing your melee attacking friend from getting hit. ... UNLESS. that bloody chap dodges your attack because of a gastly high AC. Treat your attack roll the same, if it would normally bypass your friend's AC... he's just got a bloody bolt in his gut.
Qaetar 10-14-03, 03:14 AM	I disagree in general with rules whereby if you attack someone you have a chance of hitting the wrong person. Exceptions being: Area effect attacks (fireball) and ranged attacks at grapplers. I also disagree with 25% chance of hitting the wrong person when an AoO has been provoked in a Bull Rush, but that's another question. (Qaetar)
devinmdp 10-14-03, 04:27 AM	I house ruled the cover rule so that if the initial attack roll missed because of the cover, then a SECOND roll is made to hit the cover. If you use the standard rule, there are soome very whacky things you can do to essentially make the coverer immune to ever being hit. Devin