Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Grogmir 01-09-07, 09:26 AM	Right My world is ready, I have a few maps of the imortant places and I know which monsters I’m going to throw at the party. I know which one I’m going to Kil… Eh be really nice to and lots of stuff like that! But I’m really worried about the first session, not because of the usual reason but because of one of the players. Basically he’s a powergamer, he cheats, re-rolls, fudges, makes stuff up and basically does everything possible to make himself more powerful than anybody else. A big part of this process is his character generation. His last character was a Half Giant Psyonic Warrior. Str 20 Dex 18 Con 16 In 16 Wis 18 Cha 14 He didn’t take into account any of the ECL adjustments for a half giant and gave himself a very handy full progression on the BAB chart. Now I’ve warned the group that I will be watching character generation closly and I will be monitoring the amount of stuff they start with, but I just know he is going to fudge cheat re-roll… well you get the idea. I really don’t want to have a confrotation this early on, but I know I’ve gotta stick up for the game otherwise this guy will run rough shot over everyone. Should I play it softly softly, Say things like “I think you may have calculated it up wrong there” or the hard-ball “Don’t mess about – do it right first time cause I WILL be checking” On the hardball scale I’m thinking a 7.5 a the moment! May you meed be overflowing! Grogmir (P.s just as an Aside – does anyone know where my name comes from?)
Free1983 01-09-07, 09:44 AM	Yo man, I assume you have played with the guy already as you seem to know all about his little "technical" ways to boost up his character. Some easy ways to prevent this from happening: First tell them that you'll have a special session to talk about your world. You promise them an explanation about the things the characters will know about and the things that exist in your campaignworld. Also tell them that you think it is vital that they come here (you can always do this the same day you'll be playing the game). Tell them that you will be there to help them with their character creation and their background stories:lightbulb. This might overcome the problem of the player coming to your table with an already statted out character. Rolling in the open. How many players do you have? 4? It doesn't take that long to let them roll all, one by one, a set (or even two sets) of stats. That way, there will be no re-rolls, no fudging and everything will be controlled by you :plotting:. Next thing to do is ban some material. If you want to keep it really simple, just tell your players it will be a core only game, so no freaking halfdragons, halfvampires, halfogres, halfdwarves or no overpowered extra classes & stuff. Also no balancebreaking feats, no exotic weapons that will break your game and no kender :D. You have a perfect legitimate reason for this (aside from tuning your problem player down): It's your first time as a DM and you like things to start simple. Another thing to do is to check on their equipment. Tell them to write down everything they will be packing and ask them to write down the prize :$$:. That way you'll have a way to check on your player (after the game) and a way to keep him in order while you're doing this character generation (no way he's going to get away with a flaming [+3] longsword with only 2000 gp to start with. A last thing to do is: Be very clear about the (house)rules you will use. Make little rules like, you roll only when I ask (other rolls are not legitimate) and only once. You roll in front of you on the table. Or bring a box where they can throw in their dice (this also is a great help to prevent dices to mess with the miniatures on the table). Just check the DMG, I think it has more info on this. Hope you'll make it a hell of a session ;) And about your name, no clue, but if I had to guess, it would be something from the german/nordic mythology
Arganis 01-09-07, 10:57 AM	First, congratulations and good luck! As for suggestions on how to deal with your potential cheater, you should really be auditing everyone's character sheets prior to the game. Free gives some good suggestions. The only thing I would add to his post is: Don't get ban-happy. Sometimes a rule feels really imbalanced but actually isn't. Opinions vary too. Do some research. Second, it seems like you're walking into this with a fairly confrontational attitude towards a particular player. At the risk of sounding patronizing: ROOKIE MISTAKE.
Grogmir 01-09-07, 11:06 AM	Arganis. No your right I will have to watch that. (Sometime the best advice is the one you not sure you should say!) TBH I do blame this player for breaking the last game (just wasn’t fun watching him roll hit dice over and over, Kill everyone and then watch us die because the DM was trying to challenge him, to give you an example I was a Dwarf Dragon Shaman it took me 4 game session (of hard playing) to get my first kill! There just wasn’t anyone left after turn two. So yeah watch out for any attitude – I’m the boss but I’m also a mature calm and rational boss, Right? Cheers for both your suggestions, Grogmir
Nerdicus 01-09-07, 12:05 PM	If rolling stats becomes a problem, opt for the buy point system. I just started playing with a new group (WOOHOOO for me!!! Ihave been trying to find a group to play with forever) and the DM makes everybody use the 80 point stat system. It forces us as the players to choose the stats that we want to have in the higher bracket but limits us from rediculous rolls( secret rerolls) and keepst he game balanced. Everybody has the same over all stats, just assigned differently. As far as his re-rolling on other rolls, tell everybody they have to roll out in the open. and in turn. This won't last long probably, but if you keep it going like this for the first session then you can keep an eye out for any cheating rerolls. if you spot one, tell that player that they now have to roll on the pedistule(Hardcover book or something) and roll openly and when you are watching. I have seen this used in a game and it worked awesome. I even think the DM had one of the non-cheater players purposely get caught so that he had to roll on the pedistule. He did it and took it very well, but it showed everybody else what could happen if you cheat. It was sort of like the teacher making you sit beside their desk for a day or two. Except you as the DM need to keep it fun and humorous. NOw that I think back on it, there may have been a time when two people were rolling on the pedistule in one session which made for some extra hillarity. I have found though that keeping it fun even when chastising will go the farthest way to insuring a good and fair game. Be true to your rules, but dole out punishment with a smile and a joke and hopefully things stay fun. Also, try to keep punishments of any sort to pertaining to one game session. That way each session everybody starts out as good little boys and girls.
Ogiwan 01-09-07, 12:37 PM	To tag on what Nerdicus said, yeah man, 25 or 32 point buy (if you want to go with "standard"), or 80 points distributed, or 18 16 14 12 10 8. I use the latter two. Still, though, in games, have everybody roll in the open. Also, if he powergames, he's probably an overtly powerful charcter. Or, the enemies will realize he's the main threat after a few sessions. So, they'll target him.
Onikani 01-09-07, 12:49 PM	Everyone above had really good suggestions so i won't repeat them, but i want to throw in my 2 cents and say either use a point buy or assign everyone the same set of stats and let them place them where they want them. If you use the second method make sure there is at least 2 decent stats for MAD char's. And yes, limit the number of books, and/or you can even rule it down to Core only races (or only races with +0LA and no ECL). But seriously for a new DM, atleast for the first dozen sessions or so, i would keep it as close to core as possible.
Grand Theft Otto 01-09-07, 12:56 PM	Right My world is ready, I have a few maps of the imortant places and I know which monsters I’m going to throw at the party. I know which one I’m going to Kil… Eh be really nice to and lots of stuff like that! But I’m really worried about the first session, not because of the usual reason but because of one of the players. Basically he’s a powergamer, he cheats, re-rolls, fudges, makes stuff up and basically does everything possible to make himself more powerful than anybody else. A big part of this process is his character generation. His last character was a Half Giant Psyonic Warrior. Str 20 Dex 18 Con 16 In 16 Wis 18 Cha 14 He didn’t take into account any of the ECL adjustments for a half giant and gave himself a very handy full progression on the BAB chart. Why are you playing with this chode again? Bad D&D is worse than no D&D, and presumably theres at least another player, so you dont even have to worry about the last option. If he's an actual friend outside of the game, I'd bother talking to him, otherwise drop him. Point buy and fixed HP (I use max, the RPGA uses half +1) solve character generation issues.
DracoPhoenix 01-09-07, 01:03 PM	Congratulations - let me know how it goes as Im DM'ing for the first time soon too. As for the pumpkin (from the word "power" and the term munchkin). 1) players rolls in front of you, and can't pick up the dice until the roll's confirmed. Preferably into a box lid or similar edged area. 2) It's your first campaign, nobody should hold "core only" restrictions against you. 3) Copies of character sheets to you (with appropriate book & page refs as needed) before the session starts. Cheaters or substantial poor accounting skills will result in a straight out the book core class picked or rolled at random by you. 4) As mentioned, point buy is most likely your best bet. 5) A confrontation early on, if handled well, may prevent any future problems. As everyone will know that while you're fair and open to debate, they're not to try and play you for a fool.
JasonOrlandoHawk 01-09-07, 01:17 PM	One quick suggestion: I imagine that, no matter what you do, this power gamer will try to find some way to cheat. It's hard to cheat on dice rolls when the player rolls out in the open, but that doesn't mean you will have corrected the Rules-Bending problems you described. Since that will probably come, make sure of one thing... When you confront him on a rule, confront him w/ the rulebook open to the appropriate page and read the rule out loud in front of everyone. Any arguments about what the rule book says are met w/ the words "This is my game, and this is how I am going to run it." I have typically found that when you're tough on the bad players, and you refuse to let them cheat, they fairly quickly become disinterested in the game and leave the group. Good Luck!
Falln 01-09-07, 02:07 PM	Good luck with the campaign. Against powergamers: you are DM, you chose which skills, traits, classes, ... are allowed. It's good to start with only basic stuff. That way players can't abuse stuff that comes rom one book that gives bonusses on something from an other book. If players want to use stuff from other books, then they allways need to talk to the DM to check if he allows it or not. A good thing (if you allow other books) is to keep it simply, so no combinations from other books on one character. Against people who cheat on throwing stats: use a point buy system, or fixed stats (15/14/13/12/10/8). Or let them throw the stats where you're sitting next to them. Against people who cheat while playing: all dices need to be thrown in open, so that everyone can see them. Dices are only thrown when it's your turn. (So no, "I rolled a 20 for my attack roll") And last thing: there are players who like to have a little bit stronger character. Sometimes this is a good thing, it means they work on the character. While others like to have a complete character (background etc) good luck