3e and 3.5e Compatibility and New material choices [Archive] - Wizards Community

3e and 3.5e Compatibility and New material choices [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Lord Raoul
10-18-04, 12:43 PM Hi! This is my first post on these forums, so I apologise if my question seems stupid. I have been playing D&D 3.5 since about february this year. I own the Players Handbook, Dungeon Masters Guide and Monster Manual. I did not own any books previous to these, however since my first campaign is drawing to an end I am looking for new things for the next campaign. So I have two questions:

1) What books would people recommend to add new things to my next campaign? (I am already thinking of getting Libris Mortis as one of my players is very interested in the undead).

2) Are the books released prior to edition 3.5 compatible (such as the Book of Vile darkness), or can they be made so with a small amount of work?
eudas
10-18-04, 01:02 PM RECOMMENDED TO USE

1. Manual of the Planes (3.0)

Probably one of the best resources on building multiplanar cosmologies.

Manual of the Planes has a 3.5 conversion errata out for it on the wizards.com web site, at least for the PRC's.

2. Savage Species (3.0)

Savage Species explains how to use monstrous characters, how to create level progressions for monstrous characters that are not yet full-grown, and how to advance monstrous characters.

3. Stronghold Builder's Guide (3.0)

Not absolutely necessary, but if you're going to do stuff in castles that will be around for a long time in your campaign then it's a nice resource that helps you put one together. It's also very useful for players who want to build their own fortified structures.

4. The 'Complete' books (Complete Warrior, Complete Divine, etc) (3.5)

These are OK, though they contain alot of crap as well. Some of the feats/PRC's/base classes are cool, but most are fairly boring. Most of the "new weapons!"/deities stuff is a waste of paper.

5. Old 3.0 Splat books (Masters of the Wild, Tome & Blood, Song & Silence, Sword & Fist, etc) (3.0)

These can have a mix of outdated info (Spellsword PRC from T&B), PRC's that haven't been updated in any 3.5 publications (Watch Detective for example, from MotW, or Tamer of Beasts, also from MotW), and stuff that was released but hasn't needed to be improved on (trap creation rules in S&S for example).

RECOMMENDED TO AVOID/WATCH OUT FOR

As far as stuff to avoid goes, I have a few general recommendations, mostly based on my own personal preferences:

1. Avoid Forgotten Realms/Faerun stuff.
2. Avoid Oriental Adventures/Rokugan stuff.
3. Severely check out any other campaign settings before you use them (Eberron etc).
4. avoid most 3rd-party publications; IMO they're either useless or broken.
5. avoid letting players mix feats/classes/etc from different settings; you can get some really broken combinations this way.
6. read the character optimization board and learn what is broken as far as pure 3.0/3.5 mixing goes; sometimes you can get some really bad stuff that way, too, even though it's all "official".

eudas
Board_Rider
10-18-04, 01:56 PM I agree with most of what Eudas said except for the FR stuff. To me the Forgotten Realms has a lot of stuff and text for both you and for your PC's. The OA stuff is a judgement call....I don't use it but some of the group I play in with do.
Rian Lightblade
10-18-04, 02:29 PM My recommendation really depends on what kind of DM you are. If you like a tight control over your game. Then I'd recommend avoiding the 3.0 Splat-Books or the 3.5 Complete series as both are filled with endless optional rules that let PCs branch out in all sorts of directions.

Manual of the Planes is a good choice only if you are interested "building multiplanar cosmologies" If not you can spend your money else where.

Savage Species is an excellent DM resource, for all the reasons that eudas lists in his post.

I also suggest that you consider the MM II and Fiend Folio, both 3.0, but very easy to convert of 3.5. Both are useful since having more creatures to throw at the party in always a good thing.

LM & BoVD are really only useful to players if you're going to run an evil campaign. They do make excellent resources as DM book. Fill with twisted and sick ways to augment, alter and tweak your bad guys.

The second part of my suggestion depend on whether or not you are a World Builder. Do you enjoy creating your own settings and watching the PC explore and discover the world you've created. Do you like to detail countries, and kingdoms, create Gods and Goddesses, histories and mythologies, and so on and so on? If so I'd recommend looking for the old World Builders Guidebook, published by TSR for 2ed (one of the best rpg supplement purchases I have ever made)

If you prefer just build, adventures, in a predefined, well developed world, without having to build the world itself, then I recommend also picking up a campaign setting. Check out each one that interests you for yourself. Do not, of course, base your opinions on a setting on what others (including myself) say, that goes for the books I mendtion above as well. Each one has it's own flaws and merits.

Forgotten Realms is the most developed campaign setting, with tons of 3.0/3.5 material and a mountain of free 2ed(easy to convert) PDF downloads from the D&D homepage. While many, many players (myself included) love FR. Some DM's feel that the amount and depth of development is limiting and others don't care for the rather high level of magic.

Ravenloft (2ed setting now controlled by Whitewolf another of my favorites) is filled with gothic horror and has a much darker feel the many Campaign settings (save for Scared Lands and Midnight) Many players and DM's don't care for the horror setting as the players at a constant disadvantage and the magic level is rather low. However it gothic horror is your thing the RL is worth checking out.

Oriental Adventures/Rokugan Samurai sword swinging adventure in a setting based on AEGs Legend of the Five Rings game (very storyline dictated).OA is a nice break from the Full-plate wearing , broadsword wielding, European feel of D&D and introduces many new concepts into the game. Some people just don't care for the Asian setting to begin with and many find the culture represented to different (part of the reason WW is dumping Kindred of the East IMO) to create an enjoyable game. Others find it to story driven, as the campaign setting itself, does have an over riding storyline that can seriously effect game play.

Midnight, well just imagine Middle Earth if Sauron won. An interesting concept with the forces of good being out numbered and on the run. Many consider it overpowered and underpowered all at the same time.

Scared Lands were some of the first 3.0 books that White Wolf put out. It has an interesting setting concept to it and a gritty feel as well. There are lot of good rules and ideas and a lot of broken one as well. What's good and what's not depends on how you look at it.
astute1
10-18-04, 04:25 PM 1) What books would people recommend to add new things to my next campaign? (I am already thinking of getting Libris Mortis as one of my players is very interested in the undead).

2) Are the books released prior to edition 3.5 compatible (such as the Book of Vile darkness), or can they be made so with a small amount of work?

1) Depends on what kind of campaign you are considering running. If you are new, I'd strongly suggest that you pick up a Campaign Setting Book, such as Eberron or Forgotten Realms, and play within the confines of an existing setting, as opposed to writing your own.
Here's the stuff I'd suggest picking up:

The Eberron Campaign Setting - seriously, one of the best things WotC has put out for DnD. Tons of stuff you can use in any campaign (70-odd feats, 4 new races, a very balanced new class), as well as being a damn good campaign setting in and of itself. Also, the book is chock-full of hints and tidbits that you can use to write adventures for any setting. Very, very worthwhile.
The "Complete" series - only Complete Warrior and Complete Divine are out so far, Complete Arcane drops this month. These books are full of new Prestige Classes, feats and spells. Mostly Tactical info, very little that will help you in coming up with campaign ideas, but very good for spicing up combat.
Savage Species - very useful. It's 3.0, though, which means that some of the information is irrelevent/wrong. It's still one of the best books out so far.
Stuff to Avoid:
The 3.0 Splatbooks - "Sword & Fist", "Tome & Blood", etc. These are older editions of the "Complete" Series. It's a waste of money to buy these when the newer versions are out. People will suggest them, though, because they're cheap.
Other 3.0 Books - "Arms & Equipment", "Manual of the Planes", "Oriental Adventures" - save yourself the time and avoid buying out of date books, unless you really, really like the content. It's annoying to have to waste time converting everything.
Monster Manual II & Fiend Folio - I wish I didn't buy these. Converting creatures from 3.0 to 3.5 is a huge pain, and the conversion guides are not much help. These books never see the light of day anymore.

2) Stuff is compatible with some work, the amount of work it takes varies for each book. As I already noted, the Monster Manual II and a few others are not even worth the time you'd have to put in. Some, like Savage Species, are much easier. If you find a book that you really like, then by all means, put the time into converting it, but I don't suggest running around buying out of date books just to save money.

3) :D One thing I would suggest is that you let your players know which books are "legal" for your campaign right from the start. It avoids a lot of confusion later on. I sent my players an email at the beginning of the campaign, telling them that what was legal for my campaign was:
The Core Stuff, the Expanded Psionics Handbook, The "Complete" series, and selected feats from Eberron, no arcane or divine spellcasters allowed.
That way, everyone is on the same page.
eudas
10-18-04, 04:55 PM Stuff to Avoid:
[list=I]
Other 3.0 Books - "Arms & Equipment", "Manual of the Planes", "Oriental Adventures" - save yourself the time and avoid buying out of date books, unless you really, really like the content. It's annoying to have to waste time converting everything.

Most of MotP deals with planar qualities; very little of it needs 3.0->3.5 conversion. The only parts that really need any adjustment are mostly just the four PRC's, and those already have errata out that list the needed adjustments already.

eudas
WCH
10-18-04, 05:05 PM Vile Darkness is an amazing book. I didn't even realise until half-way through that it wasn't 3.5e, and the only way I could tell was that it had stuff like DR 10/+3 instead of /Magic as in 3.5. Aside from that, it might as well be 3.5.
Rian Lightblade
10-18-04, 05:28 PM I find myself disagreeing with most of the statements made in asute1's post. If you're just getting into 3ed (using 3.5) and you look at some of the older 3.0 work in this light, you'll find yourself missing out on volumes of great books. Yes there is work convert, but in it's not that hard nor very time consuming. Although, maybe it's easier for people who have had to convert between many different versions of the game

A lot of great books were printed for 3.0 that will never see the light of day in 3.5 (not because they are not worth it, but some smaller press companies don't have the money to spend reprinting their line of books for the edited 3.0 system). There is nothing wrong with many of the campaign settings released for 3.0 Midnight, Scared Lands, DragonStar, Swashbuckling adventures, and so on and so on. Most of what is in these books is just campaign setting info, which can used regardless of what version you play with.

Most of the converting would have to be done to NPCs and PrCs. I rework all book NPCs (that I intend for my players to encounter) anyway. I do this so that players with the book as well, can be surprised and won't know all the strengths and weakness of the NPC. As for PrCs I usually don't allow them or will usually alter them to my taste.

3) :D One thing I would suggest is that you let your players know which books are "legal" for your campaign right from the start. It avoids a lot of confusion later on. I sent my players an email at the beginning of the campaign, telling them that what was legal for my campaign was:
The Core Stuff, the Expanded Psionics Handbook, The "Complete" series, and selected feats from Eberron, no arcane or divine spellcasters allowed.
That way, everyone is on the same page.

This is an excellent suggestion. A campaign rule sheet is handed out to the players at the start of any game I run. In addition to what books will be allowed, I also list the stat generation method used to create characters, what weapons, items and equipment are not available for purchase at the start of the game (or just plain period), which, if any, PrCs will be allowed, what house rules are in effect. What races and classes are allowed for the campaign, etc.

As stated this is an excellent way to let everyone know where things stand in your game.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Lord Raoul 10-18-04, 12:43 PM	Hi! This is my first post on these forums, so I apologise if my question seems stupid. I have been playing D&D 3.5 since about february this year. I own the Players Handbook, Dungeon Masters Guide and Monster Manual. I did not own any books previous to these, however since my first campaign is drawing to an end I am looking for new things for the next campaign. So I have two questions: 1) What books would people recommend to add new things to my next campaign? (I am already thinking of getting Libris Mortis as one of my players is very interested in the undead). 2) Are the books released prior to edition 3.5 compatible (such as the Book of Vile darkness), or can they be made so with a small amount of work?
eudas 10-18-04, 01:02 PM	RECOMMENDED TO USE 1. Manual of the Planes (3.0) Probably one of the best resources on building multiplanar cosmologies. Manual of the Planes has a 3.5 conversion errata out for it on the wizards.com web site, at least for the PRC's. 2. Savage Species (3.0) Savage Species explains how to use monstrous characters, how to create level progressions for monstrous characters that are not yet full-grown, and how to advance monstrous characters. 3. Stronghold Builder's Guide (3.0) Not absolutely necessary, but if you're going to do stuff in castles that will be around for a long time in your campaign then it's a nice resource that helps you put one together. It's also very useful for players who want to build their own fortified structures. 4. The 'Complete' books (Complete Warrior, Complete Divine, etc) (3.5) These are OK, though they contain alot of crap as well. Some of the feats/PRC's/base classes are cool, but most are fairly boring. Most of the "new weapons!"/deities stuff is a waste of paper. 5. Old 3.0 Splat books (Masters of the Wild, Tome & Blood, Song & Silence, Sword & Fist, etc) (3.0) These can have a mix of outdated info (Spellsword PRC from T&B), PRC's that haven't been updated in any 3.5 publications (Watch Detective for example, from MotW, or Tamer of Beasts, also from MotW), and stuff that was released but hasn't needed to be improved on (trap creation rules in S&S for example). RECOMMENDED TO AVOID/WATCH OUT FOR As far as stuff to avoid goes, I have a few general recommendations, mostly based on my own personal preferences: 1. Avoid Forgotten Realms/Faerun stuff. 2. Avoid Oriental Adventures/Rokugan stuff. 3. Severely check out any other campaign settings before you use them (Eberron etc). 4. avoid most 3rd-party publications; IMO they're either useless or broken. 5. avoid letting players mix feats/classes/etc from different settings; you can get some really broken combinations this way. 6. read the character optimization board and learn what is broken as far as pure 3.0/3.5 mixing goes; sometimes you can get some really bad stuff that way, too, even though it's all "official". eudas
Board_Rider 10-18-04, 01:56 PM	I agree with most of what Eudas said except for the FR stuff. To me the Forgotten Realms has a lot of stuff and text for both you and for your PC's. The OA stuff is a judgement call....I don't use it but some of the group I play in with do.
Rian Lightblade 10-18-04, 02:29 PM	My recommendation really depends on what kind of DM you are. If you like a tight control over your game. Then I'd recommend avoiding the 3.0 Splat-Books or the 3.5 Complete series as both are filled with endless optional rules that let PCs branch out in all sorts of directions. Manual of the Planes is a good choice only if you are interested "building multiplanar cosmologies" If not you can spend your money else where. Savage Species is an excellent DM resource, for all the reasons that eudas lists in his post. I also suggest that you consider the MM II and Fiend Folio, both 3.0, but very easy to convert of 3.5. Both are useful since having more creatures to throw at the party in always a good thing. LM & BoVD are really only useful to players if you're going to run an evil campaign. They do make excellent resources as DM book. Fill with twisted and sick ways to augment, alter and tweak your bad guys. The second part of my suggestion depend on whether or not you are a World Builder. Do you enjoy creating your own settings and watching the PC explore and discover the world you've created. Do you like to detail countries, and kingdoms, create Gods and Goddesses, histories and mythologies, and so on and so on? If so I'd recommend looking for the old World Builders Guidebook, published by TSR for 2ed (one of the best rpg supplement purchases I have ever made) If you prefer just build, adventures, in a predefined, well developed world, without having to build the world itself, then I recommend also picking up a campaign setting. Check out each one that interests you for yourself. Do not, of course, base your opinions on a setting on what others (including myself) say, that goes for the books I mendtion above as well. Each one has it's own flaws and merits. Forgotten Realms is the most developed campaign setting, with tons of 3.0/3.5 material and a mountain of free 2ed(easy to convert) PDF downloads from the D&D homepage. While many, many players (myself included) love FR. Some DM's feel that the amount and depth of development is limiting and others don't care for the rather high level of magic. Ravenloft (2ed setting now controlled by Whitewolf another of my favorites) is filled with gothic horror and has a much darker feel the many Campaign settings (save for Scared Lands and Midnight) Many players and DM's don't care for the horror setting as the players at a constant disadvantage and the magic level is rather low. However it gothic horror is your thing the RL is worth checking out. Oriental Adventures/Rokugan Samurai sword swinging adventure in a setting based on AEGs Legend of the Five Rings game (very storyline dictated).OA is a nice break from the Full-plate wearing , broadsword wielding, European feel of D&D and introduces many new concepts into the game. Some people just don't care for the Asian setting to begin with and many find the culture represented to different (part of the reason WW is dumping Kindred of the East IMO) to create an enjoyable game. Others find it to story driven, as the campaign setting itself, does have an over riding storyline that can seriously effect game play. Midnight, well just imagine Middle Earth if Sauron won. An interesting concept with the forces of good being out numbered and on the run. Many consider it overpowered and underpowered all at the same time. Scared Lands were some of the first 3.0 books that White Wolf put out. It has an interesting setting concept to it and a gritty feel as well. There are lot of good rules and ideas and a lot of broken one as well. What's good and what's not depends on how you look at it.
astute1 10-18-04, 04:25 PM	1) What books would people recommend to add new things to my next campaign? (I am already thinking of getting Libris Mortis as one of my players is very interested in the undead). 2) Are the books released prior to edition 3.5 compatible (such as the Book of Vile darkness), or can they be made so with a small amount of work? 1) Depends on what kind of campaign you are considering running. If you are new, I'd strongly suggest that you pick up a Campaign Setting Book, such as Eberron or Forgotten Realms, and play within the confines of an existing setting, as opposed to writing your own. Here's the stuff I'd suggest picking up: The Eberron Campaign Setting - seriously, one of the best things WotC has put out for DnD. Tons of stuff you can use in any campaign (70-odd feats, 4 new races, a very balanced new class), as well as being a damn good campaign setting in and of itself. Also, the book is chock-full of hints and tidbits that you can use to write adventures for any setting. Very, very worthwhile. The "Complete" series - only Complete Warrior and Complete Divine are out so far, Complete Arcane drops this month. These books are full of new Prestige Classes, feats and spells. Mostly Tactical info, very little that will help you in coming up with campaign ideas, but very good for spicing up combat. Savage Species - very useful. It's 3.0, though, which means that some of the information is irrelevent/wrong. It's still one of the best books out so far. Stuff to Avoid: The 3.0 Splatbooks - "Sword & Fist", "Tome & Blood", etc. These are older editions of the "Complete" Series. It's a waste of money to buy these when the newer versions are out. People will suggest them, though, because they're cheap. Other 3.0 Books - "Arms & Equipment", "Manual of the Planes", "Oriental Adventures" - save yourself the time and avoid buying out of date books, unless you really, really like the content. It's annoying to have to waste time converting everything. Monster Manual II & Fiend Folio - I wish I didn't buy these. Converting creatures from 3.0 to 3.5 is a huge pain, and the conversion guides are not much help. These books never see the light of day anymore. 2) Stuff is compatible with some work, the amount of work it takes varies for each book. As I already noted, the Monster Manual II and a few others are not even worth the time you'd have to put in. Some, like Savage Species, are much easier. If you find a book that you really like, then by all means, put the time into converting it, but I don't suggest running around buying out of date books just to save money. 3) :D One thing I would suggest is that you let your players know which books are "legal" for your campaign right from the start. It avoids a lot of confusion later on. I sent my players an email at the beginning of the campaign, telling them that what was legal for my campaign was: The Core Stuff, the Expanded Psionics Handbook, The "Complete" series, and selected feats from Eberron, no arcane or divine spellcasters allowed. That way, everyone is on the same page.
eudas 10-18-04, 04:55 PM	Stuff to Avoid: [list=I] Other 3.0 Books - "Arms & Equipment", "Manual of the Planes", "Oriental Adventures" - save yourself the time and avoid buying out of date books, unless you really, really like the content. It's annoying to have to waste time converting everything. Most of MotP deals with planar qualities; very little of it needs 3.0->3.5 conversion. The only parts that really need any adjustment are mostly just the four PRC's, and those already have errata out that list the needed adjustments already. eudas
WCH 10-18-04, 05:05 PM	Vile Darkness is an amazing book. I didn't even realise until half-way through that it wasn't 3.5e, and the only way I could tell was that it had stuff like DR 10/+3 instead of /Magic as in 3.5. Aside from that, it might as well be 3.5.
Rian Lightblade 10-18-04, 05:28 PM	I find myself disagreeing with most of the statements made in asute1's post. If you're just getting into 3ed (using 3.5) and you look at some of the older 3.0 work in this light, you'll find yourself missing out on volumes of great books. Yes there is work convert, but in it's not that hard nor very time consuming. Although, maybe it's easier for people who have had to convert between many different versions of the game A lot of great books were printed for 3.0 that will never see the light of day in 3.5 (not because they are not worth it, but some smaller press companies don't have the money to spend reprinting their line of books for the edited 3.0 system). There is nothing wrong with many of the campaign settings released for 3.0 Midnight, Scared Lands, DragonStar, Swashbuckling adventures, and so on and so on. Most of what is in these books is just campaign setting info, which can used regardless of what version you play with. Most of the converting would have to be done to NPCs and PrCs. I rework all book NPCs (that I intend for my players to encounter) anyway. I do this so that players with the book as well, can be surprised and won't know all the strengths and weakness of the NPC. As for PrCs I usually don't allow them or will usually alter them to my taste. 3) :D One thing I would suggest is that you let your players know which books are "legal" for your campaign right from the start. It avoids a lot of confusion later on. I sent my players an email at the beginning of the campaign, telling them that what was legal for my campaign was: The Core Stuff, the Expanded Psionics Handbook, The "Complete" series, and selected feats from Eberron, no arcane or divine spellcasters allowed. That way, everyone is on the same page. This is an excellent suggestion. A campaign rule sheet is handed out to the players at the start of any game I run. In addition to what books will be allowed, I also list the stat generation method used to create characters, what weapons, items and equipment are not available for purchase at the start of the game (or just plain period), which, if any, PrCs will be allowed, what house rules are in effect. What races and classes are allowed for the campaign, etc. As stated this is an excellent way to let everyone know where things stand in your game.