3rd and 3.5 differences [Archive] - Wizards Community

3rd and 3.5 differences [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
irzg9zh3psgq3m09
05-18-06, 10:10 PM My group just switched from 3rd ed. to 3.5 ed. Just wanted to ask what the major changes were because it's too much of a tedious task to re-read the 3.5 version of the PH and DMG and try to spot all the differences. I know a few already, such as changes to item's weights, ranger class abilities, feats, and a handful of spells. Thanks in advanced.
InterSilva
05-18-06, 10:57 PM The changes are legion. You should read those books cover to cover anyway.
Burgundy Lotus
05-18-06, 11:06 PM Unfortunately a reread is required. There are a few big changes, but scores and scores of smaller, less obvious changes that may be important for your game.
tiercel
05-18-06, 11:50 PM Ideally, yeah, OK, you reread the 3.5 rulebooks cover to cover.

Since that may not be the most practical approach, the shorthand way to do this is whenever you use a rule, look that rule up again and make sure you understand the new version. It will slow things down at first but honestly, most of that "looking up" will come up during character creation/conversion or designing encounters as a DM.

Several of the classes got tweaked -- in some cases to be less "front loaded", in the case of the ranger and bard to get extra skill points. Spontaneous casters can now "switch out" spells as they go up in levels... so your sorcerer can learn sleep, and then when the spell is no good anymore because of its limit, eventually switch it out for something else. (This is sharply limited, so read up on it carefully.)

Druids are even better now, as they can take plant form at higher levels, and Natural Spell is in the PHB (unlike 3.0, where you had to grab it from an expansion book). You'll want to grab the errata, though, since Wildshape has recently been changed.

Weapons are now specifically sized to match their wielder, by default -- a human's shortsword isn't exactly equivalent to a halfling's longsword. There are Small-sized longswords and Medium-sized shortswords.

Speaking of weapons, Damage Reduction is a big change. No longer do you have "a high enough magic bonus trumps everything" and "if you don't have the right kind of weapon, you do no damage." If a monster has DR 5/silver, ONLY a silver weapon ignores its DR -- a +5 longsword that isn't silver still loses damage to the DR. The major flavors of DR are:

materials: silver, cold iron, admantite
alignment: good, evil, lawful, chaos
damage type: piercing, slashing, bludgeoning
magic (any weapon with a magic enhancement bonus of at least +1 gets through)
universal: listed as "DR X/--", it means that ANY physical attack loses X damage

Magic attacks (spells, spell-like abilities, supernatural) ignore DR, as does energy damage (whether magical or not, e.g. fire, acid).

This means it isn't as easy to ignore all DR. On the bright side, for your players, is that the DR *amounts* have been lowered, so that DR is an obstacle, not an impossibility. The days of DR +3/30 or +3/50 are over. The highest DR amounts (before Epic play, at least) are usually 15, and most DRs are 5 or 10. This means that even if you don't have the right kind of weapon, you can still do damage usually -- just not as much.

Several spells got changed, notably mostly ones that were most problematic in 3.0. Harm now has a limit for the amount of damage it can do. Haste won't let you throw 2 spells a round. Polymorph, though, is still a mess (you'll have to flip back and forth between its entry and alter self, and then you'll probably want to try reading the Wizards errata, FAQ, Rules of the Games articles to help you decide how to play it).

I'm sure there are a lot more changes; I'm not even pretending to be comprehensive here. Surely other posters will be able to list some of the other "biggie" changes that you'll want to watch out for while making the transition.
aotrscommander
05-19-06, 06:53 AM I agree with the others. It's deceptive how much has actually changed. I ran a long 3.5 campaign and it was only about halfway through it dawned on us how much had actually changed from 3.0. To be fair to wizards, 3.5 was decidedly more than a mere update (though perhaps not quite enough of a drastic change as to create a 4th edition).
Radijs
05-19-06, 07:07 AM http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20030718a

Its useful I bet.
Millennium
05-19-06, 09:14 AM There were many changes, some minor, some not. The most visible (and possibly most controversial) change is that damage reduction was completely redone from scratch. There is no 'hierarchy' anymore, but it's possible (and, in fact, quite common) to build in damage reduction that works based on properties other than whether or not the weapon is magical. Most fey and many demons, for example, have DR vs. cold iron. Incidentally, the +5 holy avenger is now made of cold iron in addition to its other properties.

I strongly suggest reading the new SRD; although not everything from the PHB is in there, most of the stuff that isn't in the SRD didn't change. There's a very nice cross-linked version at d20srd.org (http://www.d20srd.org).
Eightbitmage
05-19-06, 11:45 AM The best advice I can give is to go to the link Radijs posted and read all of that.

Its all the differences between 3.5 and 3.0
irzg9zh3psgq3m09
05-20-06, 01:20 AM Thanks all, very much appreciated. I'll probably do what tiercel suggested. And I'll definitely check out that 3.5 update booklet.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
irzg9zh3psgq3m09 05-18-06, 10:10 PM	My group just switched from 3rd ed. to 3.5 ed. Just wanted to ask what the major changes were because it's too much of a tedious task to re-read the 3.5 version of the PH and DMG and try to spot all the differences. I know a few already, such as changes to item's weights, ranger class abilities, feats, and a handful of spells. Thanks in advanced.
InterSilva 05-18-06, 10:57 PM	The changes are legion. You should read those books cover to cover anyway.
Burgundy Lotus 05-18-06, 11:06 PM	Unfortunately a reread is required. There are a few big changes, but scores and scores of smaller, less obvious changes that may be important for your game.
tiercel 05-18-06, 11:50 PM	Ideally, yeah, OK, you reread the 3.5 rulebooks cover to cover. Since that may not be the most practical approach, the shorthand way to do this is whenever you use a rule, look that rule up again and make sure you understand the new version. It will slow things down at first but honestly, most of that "looking up" will come up during character creation/conversion or designing encounters as a DM. Several of the classes got tweaked -- in some cases to be less "front loaded", in the case of the ranger and bard to get extra skill points. Spontaneous casters can now "switch out" spells as they go up in levels... so your sorcerer can learn sleep, and then when the spell is no good anymore because of its limit, eventually switch it out for something else. (This is sharply limited, so read up on it carefully.) Druids are even better now, as they can take plant form at higher levels, and Natural Spell is in the PHB (unlike 3.0, where you had to grab it from an expansion book). You'll want to grab the errata, though, since Wildshape has recently been changed. Weapons are now specifically sized to match their wielder, by default -- a human's shortsword isn't exactly equivalent to a halfling's longsword. There are Small-sized longswords and Medium-sized shortswords. Speaking of weapons, Damage Reduction is a big change. No longer do you have "a high enough magic bonus trumps everything" and "if you don't have the right kind of weapon, you do no damage." If a monster has DR 5/silver, ONLY a silver weapon ignores its DR -- a +5 longsword that isn't silver still loses damage to the DR. The major flavors of DR are: materials: silver, cold iron, admantite alignment: good, evil, lawful, chaos damage type: piercing, slashing, bludgeoning magic (any weapon with a magic enhancement bonus of at least +1 gets through) universal: listed as "DR X/--", it means that ANY physical attack loses X damage Magic attacks (spells, spell-like abilities, supernatural) ignore DR, as does energy damage (whether magical or not, e.g. fire, acid). This means it isn't as easy to ignore all DR. On the bright side, for your players, is that the DR amounts have been lowered, so that DR is an obstacle, not an impossibility. The days of DR +3/30 or +3/50 are over. The highest DR amounts (before Epic play, at least) are usually 15, and most DRs are 5 or 10. This means that even if you don't have the right kind of weapon, you can still do damage usually -- just not as much. Several spells got changed, notably mostly ones that were most problematic in 3.0. Harm now has a limit for the amount of damage it can do. Haste won't let you throw 2 spells a round. Polymorph, though, is still a mess (you'll have to flip back and forth between its entry and alter self, and then you'll probably want to try reading the Wizards errata, FAQ, Rules of the Games articles to help you decide how to play it). I'm sure there are a lot more changes; I'm not even pretending to be comprehensive here. Surely other posters will be able to list some of the other "biggie" changes that you'll want to watch out for while making the transition.
aotrscommander 05-19-06, 06:53 AM	I agree with the others. It's deceptive how much has actually changed. I ran a long 3.5 campaign and it was only about halfway through it dawned on us how much had actually changed from 3.0. To be fair to wizards, 3.5 was decidedly more than a mere update (though perhaps not quite enough of a drastic change as to create a 4th edition).
Radijs 05-19-06, 07:07 AM	http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20030718a Its useful I bet.
Millennium 05-19-06, 09:14 AM	There were many changes, some minor, some not. The most visible (and possibly most controversial) change is that damage reduction was completely redone from scratch. There is no 'hierarchy' anymore, but it's possible (and, in fact, quite common) to build in damage reduction that works based on properties other than whether or not the weapon is magical. Most fey and many demons, for example, have DR vs. cold iron. Incidentally, the +5 holy avenger is now made of cold iron in addition to its other properties. I strongly suggest reading the new SRD; although not everything from the PHB is in there, most of the stuff that isn't in the SRD didn't change. There's a very nice cross-linked version at d20srd.org (http://www.d20srd.org).
Eightbitmage 05-19-06, 11:45 AM	The best advice I can give is to go to the link Radijs posted and read all of that. Its all the differences between 3.5 and 3.0
irzg9zh3psgq3m09 05-20-06, 01:20 AM	Thanks all, very much appreciated. I'll probably do what tiercel suggested. And I'll definitely check out that 3.5 update booklet.