Post/Author/DateTime	Post
BloodDragon 08-29-07, 12:07 PM	Just wondering many DMs opinion on this: I’m thinking of running a new Campaign soon, and while I read over the Treasure and items that are rewards in the campaign I’m planning on running. I look up corresponding prices in the PHB and DMG, and universally I find that nearly everything in D&D is priced in gold pieces, save for anything that needs a negligible price which is listed in Silver or Copper. This Irks me. Gold is suppose to be seen as valuable. While in the D&D universe it’s merely “standard”, and silver is seen as mere “toss-away” money. Platinum on the other hand is still held in high regard for some reason (At lest in my experience.) So for my campaign I would like to suggest that all Prices in the DMG and PHB that are priced in Gold will be priced as silver and silver will be priced as copper. All copper will pretty much remain the same because I believe my player’s will still see this as a “Negligible” price. All treasure rewards, spell components, craft DCs, etc will be adjusted accordingly from Gold to Silver, and Platinum into Gold as well. Platinum will be reserved for when I grant them a true treasure hull such as a Dragon's Horde. It’s really a simply matter but when I presented the idea to a friend of mine he gave me a large argument of why I should not. Aside for a little confuse in the beginning does anyone else see any issues instigating this idea? Really all I hope to accomplish is simply make gold seem a little more valuable and give the less common used coinage more use.
LazyNinja 08-29-07, 12:22 PM	So for my campaign I would like to suggest that all Prices in the DMG and PHB that are priced in Gold will be priced as silver and silver will be priced as copper. All copper will pretty much remain the same because I believe my player’s will still see this as a “Negligible” price. Sure, why not? It doesn't change any mechanics. Sounds fun. If you're looking for a way to make coinage, rather than gold specifically, seem more valuable, you could leave prices the same, eliminate copper altogether, and introduce a new metal (electrum or something) that's worth 10x as much as platinum. Then have some high-priced stores only accept platinum or electrum (they look at your gold like you're an old lady with a bag of pennies at Tiffany's) and make currency exchange very hard to come by. Then, even if your adventurers are up to their eyeballs in cash, they'll still be happy to find rare coins in a dragon hoard.
Tyler Do'Urden 08-29-07, 02:39 PM	The default value is gold pieces. This doesn't mean the common people think of everything in terms of gold pieces. You can very easily have an NPC tell them something is "15 copper each" or "20 silver" or something. My characters frequently quote prices in platinum. "Sorry, but I just don't have 235 platinum for a sword that's taller than me," etc. If you really want to spend a few hours moving decimal places around your PHB when you can just as easily move them at game time when speaking in character, have fun. If you're looking for a way to make coinage, rather than gold specifically, seem more valuable, you could leave prices the same, eliminate copper altogether, and introduce a new metal (electrum or something) that's worth 10x as much as platinum. I did this once. Mithral. The coins were larger because mithral doesn't weigh as much. Good times.
Forgarn 08-29-07, 02:43 PM	Actually everything is usefull. It only takes a couple of copper to get the young street urchant to give you some information. A nice meal is only a couple silver (or a gold at the most). An mug of ale is usually only a silver. So there are uses for the other coins. Remember that the characters are "a step above" the commoners who rake in a whapping 3 gold per year. Adventuring gear is more expensive because it is specialized stuff that a commoner would not know how to use or really want.
Naderion 08-29-07, 03:33 PM	You could also just add a 0 to all prices and change them into silver. In my game, of the coins in circulation, 40% are copper, 50% are silver, 8% are Gold and 2% are Platinum. When you want to buy a sword, it will be 350 silver coins, but wanting a light purse, you give the shopkeeper 22 gold coins, 1 platinum coin and 30 silver coins. Normal people rarely have more than 20 or 30 silver coins in cash and though they could change them into 2 or 3 gold coins, they would again have a bag of silver coins as change when they want to buy someting for 2 silver pieces.
Cartigan 08-29-07, 03:39 PM	Silver and copper probably is probably the standard and gold a lot of money for commoners who don't go around buying magically enchanted weaponry created of rare materials. It's like complaining a ring from the vending machine is 25 cents but a diamond studded bracelets is thousands of dollars.
Amon_WinterfallIV 08-29-07, 07:30 PM	I do use Coppers and Silvers a good deal--but to the PCs, they often do wind up as change. I did change around the coins above Gold. But this is just for kicks and chuckles. Coppers and Silvers should be enough to motivate all of lower-class NPCs towards goodwill to the party.
Shaggy_Shaggs 08-29-07, 07:39 PM	If you want to give the lower denomination coins more use, you could use the solution some real world businesses have used - simply not accepting wads of cash above a certain denomination because it's a pain in the ass to make change for them. I see "No bills larger than $20" signs all over the place. I can easily see that adapted to "No coins or gems larger than 20sp" in a game. It'd be annoying if you didn't have banks around to handle moneychanging, but as long as you make sure there are some exchange resources available, it shouldn't be a problem.
gixanthrax 08-29-07, 07:43 PM	Yeah, but often it's like that: For really little money sy 10 gold somebody can life without troubles for a year. For an adventurer 10 gold are nothing ( at least above lvl 2) Why aren't there more pickpockets, if they see that somebody is carrying 3000 gold around... One of our players really liked classical games , like darts, poker, or whatsoever card game. So in every tavern he went, he looked for people playing games to join them for enjoyment. But quite often he was a little p issed when nobody wanted to raise the stake above 1 gold...( except for the professional gamblers that always thwarted him) But at least it was a good method to collect information...
Shaggy_Shaggs 08-29-07, 08:03 PM	Yeah, but often it's like that: For really little money sy 10 gold somebody can life without troubles for a year. For an adventurer 10 gold are nothing ( at least above lvl 2) Why aren't there more pickpockets, if they see that somebody is carrying 3000 gold around... I think there are plenty of pickpockets and they just (mostly) avoid adventurers. If I saw someone with all that killing hardware and with a badass rep following him around, I wouldn't risk upsetting him too much by stealing his stuff either - unless I thought I had a realistic chance of taking him rather than dying messily, and if I'm that capable I might just as well become an adventurer myself.
Darion Fenix 08-29-07, 08:18 PM	Given the weight of a gold piece (1/50th of an pound) and the size of coins (about an inch in diameter and quite thick, page 168 PHB)...and the density of gold (.7 pounds per cubic inch...if I remember correctly)... I figured out that if coins were made of pure gold, they would have to be almost exactly the size of US dimes in order to weigh 1/50th of a pound. But, if they're as large as the picture on page 168 indicates...they're probably a much cheaper and far lighter metal and simply plated with a scant bit of gold. That won't solve the D&D economic crisis, but it's food for thought. In my game, we play with dime sized gold coins. :D
CCS 08-30-07, 03:28 AM	Aside for a little confuse in the beginning does anyone else see any issues instigating this idea? . No, I don't see any problem. Then again, I also tend to prefer playing Dragonlance campaigns set in the age of despair - where gold is almost worthless & our main coin is made of steel....
Infernostrider 08-30-07, 11:30 AM	it's not a bad idea, it's just not really necessary. the adventurers risk their lives time and time and again. they better be rewarded properly ^^ which would be in cold hard gold coins. Right now copper is what an average peasant makes a day (1-5 of the things) or silver for the higher level jobs (such as management). usually if players find a big hoard of gold, with which they can buy or create anything they can possibly want, is that all the prices rise along with the players purses. it's a bit of railroading, but this way you can reward them in cash all you like and still keep the game balanced (to a point). ofcourse if you change the value of ALL the coins, then i suppose it could be done. although i honestly doubt that powerful magical items come at a cost of 50.000 silver as opposed to 50.000 gold, just to name something, and if the party is being paid out in silver that might pose a nominal problem though
seolfur 08-30-07, 03:33 PM	I like this idea alot. Silver is still a precious metal, and it seems feasable to have it ascend to the worth of gold. I may even steal this. Infernostrider - I like your sig - I started mine on a road to who-knows-where, in a caravan with strangers.
SokenzanMarauder 08-30-07, 03:47 PM	I did this once. Mithral. The coins were larger because mithral doesn't weigh as much. Good times. I tried this too, until my players decided to melt down the coins and make them into weapons and armor. -Gene
BW0222 08-30-07, 05:23 PM	BloodDragon I look up corresponding prices in the PHB and DMG, and universally I find that nearly everything in D&D is priced in gold pieces, save for anything that needs a negligible price which is listed in Silver or Copper. This Irks me. Gold is suppose to be seen as valuable. While in the D&D universe it’s merely “standard”, and silver is seen as mere “toss-away” money. Platinum on the other hand is still held in high regard for some reason (At lest in my experience.) You are looking at a luxury catalog when you are looking at adventuring equipment. A suit of chainmail costs a year's savings for a commoner. A dagger is equal to several days work for a commoner. Your average laborer might make 15sp a week. After paying a 1sp a day for food and a shared room at a flop house, he might have 8sp left over. Maybe he can buy some cheap shoes for himself. Your average skilled worker might make 50sp a week. He rents a small two0room pad for say 10sp/week (about 50gp/year) and has a family of six which costs another 20sp per week to feed everyone. He saves maybe 30sp per week. At the end of the month he might have enough money to buy a cow and maybe some materials for his wife to make a new dress. At the end of the year, his daughter gets married and he gives two cows, a 20gp rug, and a 50sp set of dishes to his new son-in-law. He is now nearly broke again. In other words... the amounts of money adventurers are tossing around for a sword would keep a family of six going for a month. Swords, armor, adventuring equipment, and magic are all well into the luxury categories. Really all I hope to accomplish is simply make gold seem a little more valuable and give the less common used coinage more use. PCs are exceptions. They are on the gold standard because they are adventurers. They gain (and spend) coin at rates commoners can't even dream of. Even many nobles would be envious of their ability to spend it as fast as their earn it. If you wish to give PCs a better understanding of money... 1. Give them obligations... family, churches, guilds, etc. which expect regular help. 2. Have them work with common folks. Let them see that ordinary folks don't have 5gp to spend in the tavern. They don't make 5gp a month! 3. Inititially, put rewards in the form of trade goods -- spices, goats, linen, etc. -- or in terms of favors. 4. Put lots of beggars, street merchants, etc. who swarm the PCs looking for work, money, or rich folk to tag along with. 5. Put minor taxes, tolls, etc. into the game. A copper to enter the merchant district or 1sp for horses. Roleplay the crowds of folks who won't or can't pay to get in. etc.
High Octane 08-30-07, 06:13 PM	I did this once. Mithral. The coins were larger because mithral doesn't weigh as much. Good times. My equivelent was stamped gems of a given GP value. 100gp ruby slivers and such. Short lived game but the concept was sound and worked well enough. Still, gems are not as malleable as mithril, which pound per pound is more valuable then gold. Oddly enough though, platinum pound per pound IS more valuable than mithril. (A mithril shirt is 1100 gold of worth, and 10 pounds. Thats 110 gold a pound. At 50 coins a pound, that is 2.2 gold per coin.) I don't remember which book says it, but your average commoner doesn't use gold as their basis of economics. They use the silver piece. Adventurers however, are high rollers. Dumping 200g is usually nothing, whereas a common person can live WELL over a year on that.
JulesCARV 08-30-07, 06:25 PM	Personally, I think of, to a rough approximation, 1 copper = $0.20, 1 silver = $2, and 1 gold = $20. (This is purchasing power parity, not the value of the precious metals on Earth, since the value of, say, gold, fluctuates widely, and the abundance of gold on Earth and in a D&D world isn't gauranteed to be similar anyway (it seems to me that on most D&D worlds, gold is far more common than on Earth.)) I think that having one silver be the smallest denomination would be a bit too big. Even a copper is kind of big for a smallest possible denomination, although still managable.
Faelar006 08-30-07, 07:01 PM	Just wondering many DMs opinion on this: I’m thinking of running a new Campaign soon, and while I read over the Treasure and items that are rewards in the campaign I’m planning on running. I look up corresponding prices in the PHB and DMG, and universally I find that nearly everything in D&D is priced in gold pieces, save for anything that needs a negligible price which is listed in Silver or Copper. This Irks me. Gold is suppose to be seen as valuable. While in the D&D universe it’s merely “standard”, and silver is seen as mere “toss-away” money. Platinum on the other hand is still held in high regard for some reason (At lest in my experience.) So for my campaign I would like to suggest that all Prices in the DMG and PHB that are priced in Gold will be priced as silver and silver will be priced as copper. All copper will pretty much remain the same because I believe my player’s will still see this as a “Negligible” price. All treasure rewards, spell components, craft DCs, etc will be adjusted accordingly from Gold to Silver, and Platinum into Gold as well. Platinum will be reserved for when I grant them a true treasure hull such as a Dragon's Horde. It’s really a simply matter but when I presented the idea to a friend of mine he gave me a large argument of why I should not. Aside for a little confuse in the beginning does anyone else see any issues instigating this idea? Really all I hope to accomplish is simply make gold seem a little more valuable and give the less common used coinage more use. I guess I'm not exactly clear on what you are proposing. Are you suggesting conversion of prices in gold to prices in silver? Such as, if Ye Olde Magical Sword of Uberness is listed at 25,000 gp in the DMG, it is going to cost 250,000 sp in your world? Or are you suggesting that said sword would simply be 25,000 sp instead of 25,000 gp? If it's the first, then I would definitely suggest that you rethink your plan, unless your players fancy having to rent out a merchant caravan every time they go dungeoneering. If rewards are to be given mostly in silver, your game will become less about adventure, and more about logistics. If it's the second, then your world-wide economy is suddenly hosed. Just think of Poor Farmer Tim, who is taking Old Bessie to market to sell her so he can get some money to buy seed for the 4 extra acres of land he has recently acquired. When he gets there, he suddenly finds that instead of fetching 40 silver like he had expected, Old Bessie's market value has plummeted to 40 copper. This worries Poor Farmer Tim, but then he hears that the price of tomato seeds has dropped as well, so with a heavy heart, he says goodbye to Old Bessie. With his 40 cp in hand, Poor Farmer Tim goes to buy some seed. When he gets there, however, he finds that no one is selling seed. See, it cost them 25 sp to produce a bushel of seed, but now it is only worth 40 cp when they normally expected to get 40 sp. Markets crash, production of seed stops, people starve and the world goes to war to obtain the last goods on Earth. Then the world explodes. In all seriousness, the second way of doing would work fine mechanically, but it is really just an arbitrary decision. All you are really doing is changing the benchmark standard of currency exchange. Faelar
Starcloud 08-31-07, 01:17 AM	If you *really* need coins that are "better" than Platinum... use Aluminum. I'm not kidding. :) It's one of the hardest metals to refine, probably only the dwarves would know how to do it.
High Octane 08-31-07, 04:21 AM	If you *really* need coins that are "better" than Platinum... use Aluminum. Tyler already suggested that. They just call it "Mithril" in game. (Same as steel but lighter. That is aluminum in a nutshell.)
Eater_Of_Souls 08-31-07, 04:49 AM	Well my first move a s DM was to ditch the regular gold reward table. I also adjusted the prises so that they make more sense. such as rope for 5s and rope ladders costed 15gp :looloo: Now they cost only 15s which is about right ofc. this also means that players aren't swimming in cash with 1000000gp per encounter either.
Orion__ 08-31-07, 09:32 AM	Just wondering many DMs opinion on this: I’m thinking of running a new Campaign soon, and while I read over the Treasure and items that are rewards in the campaign I’m planning on running. I look up corresponding prices in the PHB and DMG, and universally I find that nearly everything in D&D is priced in gold pieces, save for anything that needs a negligible price which is listed in Silver or Copper. This Irks me. Gold is suppose to be seen as valuable. While in the D&D universe it’s merely “standard”, and silver is seen as mere “toss-away” money. Platinum on the other hand is still held in high regard for some reason (At lest in my experience.) So for my campaign I would like to suggest that all Prices in the DMG and PHB that are priced in Gold will be priced as silver and silver will be priced as copper. All copper will pretty much remain the same because I believe my player’s will still see this as a “Negligible” price. All treasure rewards, spell components, craft DCs, etc will be adjusted accordingly from Gold to Silver, and Platinum into Gold as well. Platinum will be reserved for when I grant them a true treasure hull such as a Dragon's Horde. It’s really a simply matter but when I presented the idea to a friend of mine he gave me a large argument of why I should not. Aside for a little confuse in the beginning does anyone else see any issues instigating this idea? Really all I hope to accomplish is simply make gold seem a little more valuable and give the less common used coinage more use. I did exactly the same thing in my campaign. If you use it, I suggest you repeat "xx silver" every time you say the price of something, so your players get used to it. It's just an aesthetical change, but it makes more sense this way.
Forgarn 08-31-07, 04:13 PM	Well my first move a s DM was to ditch the regular gold reward table. I also adjusted the prises so that they make more sense. such as rope for 5s and rope ladders costed 15gp :looloo: Now they cost only 15s which is about right ofc. this also means that players aren't swimming in cash with 1000000gp per encounter either. WOW!!! I want to play in the game that has that 1M pg reward per encounter. The most I have ever gotten was 150K gp and that was a 15+ level campaign.
greatamericanfolkhero 08-31-07, 06:00 PM	The players in my last game hated copper after they killed a monster and ended up with 100k copper pieces.
Eater_Of_Souls 09-01-07, 01:30 AM	WOW!!! I want to play in the game that has that 1M pg reward per encounter. The most I have ever gotten was 150K gp and that was a 15+ level campaign. Obviously sarcasm is wasted on certain individuals. :rolleyes: