6th level PCs average 45,000 gp wealth - what to do? [Archive] - Wizards Community

6th level PCs average 45,000 gp wealth - what to do? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
nuwildcat
06-11-06, 06:20 PM I just searched all 27 pages of this board, and I didn't find another thread with my issue. But I'm sure this has been discussed many times before, so if anyone can provide a link, I would greatly appreciate it. Here's my problem:

In my playing group, we have three sets of characters, and each set inhabits it's own world, separate from each other set. One guy DMs the first set, a different guy DMs the second set, and I alternate DMing the third set with a fourth guy in the group.

So, I DMed the group when they were new, and brought them from 1st level through 3rd level. Then the other DM brought them from 3rd to 6th. I'm up next as DM--my adventure will take them to 7th or 8th level. In his adventure, which he wrote, the other DM gave the PCs so much treasure, that they now average 45,000 gp each. One character has at least 55,000 gp wealth. By the book, each character should have roughly 13,000 gp wealth. One character has three magic items (one weapon, one armor, one wondrous), each of which is worth more than 15,000 gp.

Now, if the party average were 16,000, instead of 45,000, I wouldn't even flinch; I'd just cut back on the treasure in my adventure. But the party averages wealth that would fit a 9th level party: they have THREE TIMES what they should--by the book.

As I see it, I have three options to try to rebalance the party:
1. ignore it and give the PCs the same treasure I would give if they had the appropriate wealth: just pile on.
2. ignore it, but provide essentially no treasure in my adventure
3. talk to the players and see if they will agree to have their PCs lose most of their stuff in game.

Option 1: PCs dominate by virtue of their too-good weapons and armor and no PC ever risks real danger, unless I crank up the bad guys, in which case I risk TPK.
Option 2: **** off the players by being an extremely stingy DM
Option 3: possibly **** off the players, assuming I don't get a unanimous response when I discuss it with them (the DM that gave out too much treasure doesn't see this as a big deal)

Should I just not worry about balalnce, and run my adventure, ignoring the party's wealth?

Thanks.
shadowofjedis
06-11-06, 06:42 PM Give them some "end game" treasure to invest in that sinks theyre money, opens up new avenues of play, and stops them from getting too over encumbered by all the weight of theyre gold ;)

What is it you ask?

Have them all invest in a buying and building a town.

Start with a mansion, which is like what, 40k in the DMG? Then have them deal with issues in the town, which will allow them to sink theyre money in buying things for the town. A Wall (lets say 5k for a palistade, 10k for a good wall) to defend against attackers. Roadways (10k) maybe fix up the stores (20k) buy an inn (10k) Pay guards (30k)

And in return, give them some exciting things to do, a place to live and be "worshipped" and discounts on all goods within theyre town.
Galroth
06-11-06, 06:48 PM You could just go with option 4... cut back a little on the treasure that you pile on to this group, while at the same time upping the challenge ratings of what they encounter a bit. So instead of going against CR 6 stuff all the time, send them against a few CR 8 or 9 encounters, that will challenge them and allow them to have fun, without giving up the things they probably feel that they've earned under the other DM.

Although, this kind of thing is a good example of why different DMs should run completly seperate campaigns, since everyone has their own styles of treasure allocation and such.
Engilbrand
06-11-06, 06:49 PM I don't really follow it that much. Just don't be afraid to break something. There are rules for sundering, and I'm sure a high level Rogue would love to hear about someone with more stuff than they can deal with. Steal some of it. Don't try to take all of it to "balance" the group. That's a rediculous way of looking at things. My main recommendation, though, would be to keep it in mind when dealing out XP. CR means "CHALLENGE Rating". If things aren't challenging, they don't get as much XP. Some things have their CRs increased if they have great gear. Increase the ECL of your group to compensate for the rediculous stuff. It will take them longer to level. I would also recommend everyone sitting down and going over this. If one DM sees it as a problem and another does not, who knows what else isn't being taken into account?
Darkuwa
06-11-06, 10:13 PM Thats why I control wealth fairly strictly. Every character gets an advancing item of some kind, usually to start with or by level 5 or so. They're simmilar to weapons of legacy, but without the drawbacks. This way I can give very little ammounts of money without gimping the party, and can update the power without having to have them defeat something with money then have them go spend it.

For the OP: I would simply reduce drops severly so they still get some but not so their money continues to grow to large. They have the wealth of a level 9, so make it so they even out with the chart around level 11/12
tharivol266
06-11-06, 10:27 PM all i can say is: undead, oozes, animals, magical beasts, and constructs generally dont carry treasure.....neither do true dragons for that matter....(before you yell yes i was joking with the last part)
sorites
06-11-06, 10:31 PM 1. ignore it and give the PCs the same treasure I would give if they had the appropriate wealth: just pile on.

<snip>

Option 1: PCs dominate by virtue of their too-good weapons and armor and no PC ever risks real danger, unless I crank up the bad guys, in which case I risk TPK.

This is probably what I'd do. Crank it up and keep on going. Don't screw with the flow of the game to deal with bookkeeping. Your players will probably resent you trying to 'nerf' them if you go with one of the other options.

But you have to keep it challenging, and giving them straight CR6 opponents would make it too easy. I say you just lean on them a little harder than you normally would. Try adding additional bad guys instead of amping the CR of a single opponent to help edge the game away from TPKs.

I'd continue giving treasure. Just go with standard 6th-level appropriate gp and items. Over time, it will work out, especially if they are facing occasional high CR opponents which could have item-destroying powers.
Malakai_Demonos
06-12-06, 12:36 AM The idea about having monsters steal or destroy their items, is actually a good stategy, it might lead to the players being felt abused, but they can live with it as long as it is done by the rules.

Besides having an opponent sunder their weapons, you could also use etheral fletchers to steal their loot. Or even have them face delvers, they have an acidic body that requires anyone who hits them in melee with a manufactured weapon to make a reflex save or have their item be desolved. People who the delver hits also has to make a reflex save or have their cloths and armor be disolved. The delver is in the MMI, btw.
Dragonsblood
06-12-06, 01:26 AM Ambush the party with rust monsters.

I also suggest going to the root of the problem and talking to the DM who gave out so much loot.
BloodSpill
06-12-06, 02:55 AM Option 5: Make them all level 9. Give all the monsters in your adventure the same +3CR template. Don't increase the treasure to make up for it, either.

Then tell the other DMs you're going to keep randomly giving the players levels until he(?)/they stop(s) giving the party too much treasure.

There's nothing in the rules that says the DM can't just be abritrary (seemingly) beneficial like this. :D
Cantankerous
06-12-06, 04:51 AM I'd say to add ONE to their ECL when figuring out how you are going to CR your opposition, if it still seems light to you, give all the monsters elite arrays as well. Too, I'd give them the treasure that is appropriate but for god sake, the BIGGIE, talk with that DM and try to remind him that he isn't running the game solo. His mad treasure pile on is unbalancing things badly. No single item in the group possession should yet be over 8,000gp in value. Three that are double that on one character? Yeeesh.

For now, up that ECL and make the monsters elites and you should do fine.

Isshia
Vanamir
06-12-06, 06:00 AM Option 1: PCs dominate by virtue of their too-good weapons and armor and no PC ever risks real danger, unless I crank up the bad guys, in which case I risk TPK.

You don't go instantly from push-over encounters to TPKs. Just adding a monster or two to the encounter or raising the average mosnter CR by +1 should help a lot without wiping out the party.

Besides, even with CRs provided proper encounter design requires GM assessment so just have to find the monsters that can still challenge your party. Especially those with high attack bonuses and high damage capacity can often threaten even higher level characters so you ought to concentrate on those. Especially dragons, giants and outsiders remain useful adversaries for a broad span of levels. Likewise you should avoid those critters whose CR is mostly based on minor spell-like abilities or meaningless special qualities (e.g. DR/magic :pbbbtt: )

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
nuwildcat 06-11-06, 06:20 PM	I just searched all 27 pages of this board, and I didn't find another thread with my issue. But I'm sure this has been discussed many times before, so if anyone can provide a link, I would greatly appreciate it. Here's my problem: In my playing group, we have three sets of characters, and each set inhabits it's own world, separate from each other set. One guy DMs the first set, a different guy DMs the second set, and I alternate DMing the third set with a fourth guy in the group. So, I DMed the group when they were new, and brought them from 1st level through 3rd level. Then the other DM brought them from 3rd to 6th. I'm up next as DM--my adventure will take them to 7th or 8th level. In his adventure, which he wrote, the other DM gave the PCs so much treasure, that they now average 45,000 gp each. One character has at least 55,000 gp wealth. By the book, each character should have roughly 13,000 gp wealth. One character has three magic items (one weapon, one armor, one wondrous), each of which is worth more than 15,000 gp. Now, if the party average were 16,000, instead of 45,000, I wouldn't even flinch; I'd just cut back on the treasure in my adventure. But the party averages wealth that would fit a 9th level party: they have THREE TIMES what they should--by the book. As I see it, I have three options to try to rebalance the party: 1. ignore it and give the PCs the same treasure I would give if they had the appropriate wealth: just pile on. 2. ignore it, but provide essentially no treasure in my adventure 3. talk to the players and see if they will agree to have their PCs lose most of their stuff in game. Option 1: PCs dominate by virtue of their too-good weapons and armor and no PC ever risks real danger, unless I crank up the bad guys, in which case I risk TPK. Option 2: ** off the players by being an extremely stingy DM Option 3: possibly ** off the players, assuming I don't get a unanimous response when I discuss it with them (the DM that gave out too much treasure doesn't see this as a big deal) Should I just not worry about balalnce, and run my adventure, ignoring the party's wealth? Thanks.
shadowofjedis 06-11-06, 06:42 PM	Give them some "end game" treasure to invest in that sinks theyre money, opens up new avenues of play, and stops them from getting too over encumbered by all the weight of theyre gold ;) What is it you ask? Have them all invest in a buying and building a town. Start with a mansion, which is like what, 40k in the DMG? Then have them deal with issues in the town, which will allow them to sink theyre money in buying things for the town. A Wall (lets say 5k for a palistade, 10k for a good wall) to defend against attackers. Roadways (10k) maybe fix up the stores (20k) buy an inn (10k) Pay guards (30k) And in return, give them some exciting things to do, a place to live and be "worshipped" and discounts on all goods within theyre town.
Galroth 06-11-06, 06:48 PM	You could just go with option 4... cut back a little on the treasure that you pile on to this group, while at the same time upping the challenge ratings of what they encounter a bit. So instead of going against CR 6 stuff all the time, send them against a few CR 8 or 9 encounters, that will challenge them and allow them to have fun, without giving up the things they probably feel that they've earned under the other DM. Although, this kind of thing is a good example of why different DMs should run completly seperate campaigns, since everyone has their own styles of treasure allocation and such.
Engilbrand 06-11-06, 06:49 PM	I don't really follow it that much. Just don't be afraid to break something. There are rules for sundering, and I'm sure a high level Rogue would love to hear about someone with more stuff than they can deal with. Steal some of it. Don't try to take all of it to "balance" the group. That's a rediculous way of looking at things. My main recommendation, though, would be to keep it in mind when dealing out XP. CR means "CHALLENGE Rating". If things aren't challenging, they don't get as much XP. Some things have their CRs increased if they have great gear. Increase the ECL of your group to compensate for the rediculous stuff. It will take them longer to level. I would also recommend everyone sitting down and going over this. If one DM sees it as a problem and another does not, who knows what else isn't being taken into account?
Darkuwa 06-11-06, 10:13 PM	Thats why I control wealth fairly strictly. Every character gets an advancing item of some kind, usually to start with or by level 5 or so. They're simmilar to weapons of legacy, but without the drawbacks. This way I can give very little ammounts of money without gimping the party, and can update the power without having to have them defeat something with money then have them go spend it. For the OP: I would simply reduce drops severly so they still get some but not so their money continues to grow to large. They have the wealth of a level 9, so make it so they even out with the chart around level 11/12
tharivol266 06-11-06, 10:27 PM	all i can say is: undead, oozes, animals, magical beasts, and constructs generally dont carry treasure.....neither do true dragons for that matter....(before you yell yes i was joking with the last part)
sorites 06-11-06, 10:31 PM	1. ignore it and give the PCs the same treasure I would give if they had the appropriate wealth: just pile on. <snip> Option 1: PCs dominate by virtue of their too-good weapons and armor and no PC ever risks real danger, unless I crank up the bad guys, in which case I risk TPK. This is probably what I'd do. Crank it up and keep on going. Don't screw with the flow of the game to deal with bookkeeping. Your players will probably resent you trying to 'nerf' them if you go with one of the other options. But you have to keep it challenging, and giving them straight CR6 opponents would make it too easy. I say you just lean on them a little harder than you normally would. Try adding additional bad guys instead of amping the CR of a single opponent to help edge the game away from TPKs. I'd continue giving treasure. Just go with standard 6th-level appropriate gp and items. Over time, it will work out, especially if they are facing occasional high CR opponents which could have item-destroying powers.
Malakai_Demonos 06-12-06, 12:36 AM	The idea about having monsters steal or destroy their items, is actually a good stategy, it might lead to the players being felt abused, but they can live with it as long as it is done by the rules. Besides having an opponent sunder their weapons, you could also use etheral fletchers to steal their loot. Or even have them face delvers, they have an acidic body that requires anyone who hits them in melee with a manufactured weapon to make a reflex save or have their item be desolved. People who the delver hits also has to make a reflex save or have their cloths and armor be disolved. The delver is in the MMI, btw.
Dragonsblood 06-12-06, 01:26 AM	Ambush the party with rust monsters. I also suggest going to the root of the problem and talking to the DM who gave out so much loot.
BloodSpill 06-12-06, 02:55 AM	Option 5: Make them all level 9. Give all the monsters in your adventure the same +3CR template. Don't increase the treasure to make up for it, either. Then tell the other DMs you're going to keep randomly giving the players levels until he(?)/they stop(s) giving the party too much treasure. There's nothing in the rules that says the DM can't just be abritrary (seemingly) beneficial like this. :D
Cantankerous 06-12-06, 04:51 AM	I'd say to add ONE to their ECL when figuring out how you are going to CR your opposition, if it still seems light to you, give all the monsters elite arrays as well. Too, I'd give them the treasure that is appropriate but for god sake, the BIGGIE, talk with that DM and try to remind him that he isn't running the game solo. His mad treasure pile on is unbalancing things badly. No single item in the group possession should yet be over 8,000gp in value. Three that are double that on one character? Yeeesh. For now, up that ECL and make the monsters elites and you should do fine. Isshia
Vanamir 06-12-06, 06:00 AM	Option 1: PCs dominate by virtue of their too-good weapons and armor and no PC ever risks real danger, unless I crank up the bad guys, in which case I risk TPK. You don't go instantly from push-over encounters to TPKs. Just adding a monster or two to the encounter or raising the average mosnter CR by +1 should help a lot without wiping out the party. Besides, even with CRs provided proper encounter design requires GM assessment so just have to find the monsters that can still challenge your party. Especially those with high attack bonuses and high damage capacity can often threaten even higher level characters so you ought to concentrate on those. Especially dragons, giants and outsiders remain useful adversaries for a broad span of levels. Likewise you should avoid those critters whose CR is mostly based on minor spell-like abilities or meaningless special qualities (e.g. DR/magic :pbbbtt: )