Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Siduakal 07-28-05, 08:42 PM	Okay, in my new world I'm planning to have 7 liches that run the whole show. They have a massive undead army that pretty much reigns supreme. Living life forms kind of hide out in their own areas and try not to draw too much attention. (For now) Each Lich's behavior will be based off one of the seven deadly sins. They're INSANELY powerful, the most powerful thing in the world. Dragons are all but gone, aside from a few VERY young ones who survived and half-breeds. They've also destroyed the planes and forced dieties who managed to escape to walk the mortal realm. Now the question is.. I want these Lichs to of formed a bond telepathically where they will know if one dies, they can communicate without words, that type of deal.. Is there a way to do this mechanically? Or do I just have to kinda pull a "Because I said so" type deal? I'd rather do it mechanically via spells or powers.
WCH 07-28-05, 08:44 PM	Somehow I'm not buying the concept of a Lustful Lich. No gonads = no lust.
green_yawgmoth 07-28-05, 08:49 PM	Somehow I'm not buying the concept of a Lustful Lich. No gonads = no lust.1. Liches do not castrate themselves, last I checked. And any smart lich knows at least 5 ways to preserve his body, so a lustful lich could more than certainly find a way to stay in good form for such activities. 2. Powerlust. What lich doesn't have it? http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
VirgilCaine 07-28-05, 08:54 PM	Now the question is.. I want these Lichs to of formed a bond telepathically where they will know if one dies, they can communicate without words, that type of deal.. Is there a way to do this mechanically? Or do I just have to kinda pull a "Because I said so" type deal? I'd rather do it mechanically via spells or powers. Sending at will. Or a higher level version of the spell. Not that hard. 1. Liches do not castrate themselves, last I checked. And any smart lich knows at least 5 ways to preserve his body, so a lustful lich could more than certainly find a way to stay in good form for such activities. Oil of Timelessness.
Callista 07-28-05, 08:54 PM	Have them research a level-9 version of Rary's Telepathic Bond that does what you want... extend the spell to reach across the planes and allow them to scry on each other. Et Cetera.
Siduakal 07-28-05, 09:02 PM	Thank you all.. And yes, his lust is for power. =P Not for flesh. These Liches pretty much spent all their time planning a take over and sieged the entire world with their undead armies. They are also the only epic characters in the world.. My PCs will be the only chance the world has, pretty much.. It'll take a LOOOOONG time though. A very long time. I'm also giving the PCs the leadership feat for free, secretly. Because I wanted a mechanical way for them to form their own faction slowly due to their deeds. So I just figured Leadership would be the easiest.. Especially since the average figure of power is 5th level in a PC class.. (Only a few survived that were stronger.. Most of whom were of a stronger race or of a long lived race)
VirgilCaine 07-28-05, 09:28 PM	Oh, and make sure you talk in-depth to your players about the tone of the campaign--this is "overthrow the pervasive evil campaign." Not everyone is up for that kind of thing.
WCH 07-28-05, 10:02 PM	... but that isn't what the deadly sin refers to in the slightest... that's more like greed... or even envy... heck, it could even fall under pride... but it has absolutely nothing to do with lust. Now, I can understand if you don't want to include sexual themes into your game, but then you shouldn't be using the Seven Deadly Sins as a model, because it's a vital part of them. It'd be like doing an adaptation of Hamlet in which no one dies. Pride is excessive belief in one's own abilities, that interferes with the individual's recognition of the grace of God. It has been called the sin from which all others arise. Pride is also known as Vanity. Envy is the desire for others' traits, status, abilities, or situation. Gluttony is an inordinate desire to consume more than that which one requires. Lust is an inordinate craving for the pleasures of the body. Anger is manifested in the individual who spurns love and opts instead for fury. It is also known as Wrath. Greed is the desire for material wealth or gain, ignoring the realm of the spiritual. It is also called Avarice or Covetousness. Sloth is the avoidance of physical or spiritual work.http://deadlysins.com/sins/index.htm
Siduakal 07-28-05, 10:23 PM	Ah, I suppose you're right WCH. :) Looks like my Lich has just become quite fond of keeping live women around captive for his amusement and forcing them to do things for his own sick enjoyment. And yea, my players get what the worlds gonna be like. Namely because they know me.. lol. I said right off when I came up with the world "Post Apocalyptic.. one major organization.. gotta be overthrown" They seemed content with that. They don't usually get to play together because they alternate DMing. Most couples would prefer to play together than to alternate DMing for others. =P
WCH 07-28-05, 10:27 PM	Ah, I suppose you're right WCH. :) Looks like my Lich has just become quite fond of keeping live women around captive for his amusement and forcing them to do things for his own sick enjoyment.There we go. That's a good boy. Have a cookie. :) If you need examples of really sexually messed up villains, check out Justine by the Marquis de Sade. Personally, I'm using the Monseiur de Gernande from it... fat guy who likes to bleed his wife. In my campaign he's an aristocrat with a mansion a few hours away from one of the cities (in the middle of no where, really). He knows one of the powerful villains and contributes money to him... dunno if I'll have the PCs find out about him or not, but his mansion is there. The rogue even tried to break into it at one point (he asked for a list of mansions in the area -- I told him of 4 of them, he happened to pick Gernande's) and failed miserably. :P
Siduakal 07-29-05, 11:42 AM	lol don't worry. I've read horror novels since I was 6.. I can come up with some pretty twisted stuff.. Hence why my world is going for a darker feel. I don't want it to be sunshine and dandelions.
Cantankerous 07-29-05, 01:00 PM	Thank you all.. And yes, his lust is for power. =P Not for flesh. These Liches pretty much spent all their time planning a take over and sieged the entire world with their undead armies. They are also the only epic characters in the world.. My PCs will be the only chance the world has, pretty much.. It'll take a LOOOOONG time though. A very long time. I'm also giving the PCs the leadership feat for free, secretly. Because I wanted a mechanical way for them to form their own faction slowly due to their deeds. So I just figured Leadership would be the easiest.. Especially since the average figure of power is 5th level in a PC class.. (Only a few survived that were stronger.. Most of whom were of a stronger race or of a long lived race) The Lich of Gluttony ought to be fun. Glutton for power? In keeping with the theme it could be distilled, or maybe life force the same way, in a sort of quasi physical form that could be thus physicly consumed. There are a million and one ideas for this in the Book of Vile Darkness. Maybe a sort of Liquid Pain type derivative that allows him to distill life force. I like the idea of the grotequely obese Lich who looks VERY alive because of all the distilled, quintessential life force he has consumed. That ought to throw the players. Isshia
Illion the Red 07-29-05, 01:34 PM	If these Liches are as all-powerful as you make them out to be, then they could be permanently scrying on each other. They're EPIC...make it an Epic spell with an obscene duration of 100 years or something. If the PCs are ever supposed to fight any of the liches, the time between castings of the spell would be their chance...but they better be uber-Epic too!
WCH 07-29-05, 02:51 PM	Like Lust, I'd make Gluttony at least fairly literal. Maybe he really likes the taste of food, even though he's incapable of digesting it, so he's constantly eating, with the results literally falling through him, possibly into a garbage disposal of some kind. Or maybe you could just stay with the theme of Gluttony and make him extremely wasteful... like rather than use the amount of resources he needs, even when that "need" is something excessive like killing people for fun, he always wastes far more, whatever it is. If he's attacking a city, he sends 10 times as many men as he needed, and disbands them all (or kills them all) once the mission is done. When he wants a wooden house built for him, he clearcuts an entire forest for the materials. Stuff like that. If these Liches are as all-powerful as you make them out to be, then they could be permanently scrying on each other. They're EPIC...make it an Epic spell with an obscene duration of 100 years or something. If the PCs are ever supposed to fight any of the liches, the time between castings of the spell would be their chance...but they better be uber-Epic too!Why would you bother giving them an epic spell when they could just have crystal balls, Palantir style? :P
Siduakal 07-29-05, 03:31 PM	Actually, my plan for Gluttony is to for him to HEAVILY consume their "Live stock" I'm using the undead hungers/cravings from Libris Mortis, that's why they haven't simply KILLED humanity, they want to capture it. They're actually going to have breeding centers and processing centers.. The 7 Liches are absurdly strong, but most of their power comes when they're together. Defeating them will be somethin for the players to figure out. Prides Phylactery will be easiest to destroy, because he's so ****-sure of his abilities that he's got it out in the open. Sloths is also easy, he keeps his out because he just doesn't feel the desire to hide it. He's also the weakest of the 7 liches because he doesn't devote as much time to his studies. Gluttony is going to be so overconsuming of their live stock that I am considering having Anger/Wrath kill him. Etc.. They will pretty much bring about their own downfall, because that's how evil is.. It's why good triumphs. Now, the players, of course, have to kill most the Liches in time, but I'm going to make it possible.. in due time.
Eightbitmage 07-29-05, 04:22 PM	It is taking so much willpower for me not to steal this... Well even if i dont steal it I'll probably adapt it, so thanks =P
Kaligrad 07-29-05, 04:39 PM	If you haven't yet, don't forget to give them a few feats each out of tBoVD, or even a couple prestige classes. Also, an interesting twist on gluttony and lust: What if gluttony feasted on souls? The rules for distilling them are in Vile Darkness, after all. What if lust fufilled his desires by possessing others (via Soul Trap), even having them do the most depraved things he wouldn't have done otherwise? It could be he's secretly a masochist, who has been unable to do it since he no longer feels pain?
Siduakal 07-29-05, 09:56 PM	Nifty ideas. I'm using the standard deities of D&D. With the addition of Lloth, cause well.. I just love that crazy woman. I added Pain domain to all evil deities for clerics, and Glory to all good. (I was being lazy..so I just did it all good and all evil) I'm going to probably in 2 weeks (I have an entire week off before the move) plot out all sorts of stuff for the Liches, including stating them out. I'm also stating out the "Seven Suns" (There are 7 moons, after all.. thanks to the Liches) - Which are a group of seven soldiers (I rolled randomly to get their classes, gender, races.. and ended up with so many elves that I rolled randomly to figure out which elf subrace) who have survived since the onslaught of the undead with just their group. They're going to be 'elite' soldiers.. But only 7th level all across.. They've SURVIVED.. They haven't stopped anything really. Just survived in the wilds around their created hide out. These guys, later, will become followers of the PCs once the PCs surpass them. (They'll be the only followers over 5th most likely) The players ended up with.. Gestalt.. Gloaming Paladin/Rogue. Dark Elf Cleric/Fighter(Archery oriented) So I'm going to do some interesting things. I'm having them roll concentration checks/int checks before the campaign, with predetermined DCs. If they get both DCs, they have knowledge of pretty much ANY undead they'll encounter.. If they only get both the middle rank DCs(Or one top, one middle) they retain all MM3.5 undead knowledge... if they get only the low DCs(Or one middle/high and a low) they remember about Skeletons/Zombies.. if they fail both.. well.. it's kinda hard to. But they retain no memory of undead over any other standard character. Why? The year since the apocalypse in the underground city, the 3 clerics of different dieties there have been teaching whoever comes, each day, about different undead. It's to see their concentration on the classes(Paying attention) and their intelligence check is to see what knowledge they actually hold onto. I also asked them "What's your characters most important stat to them?" One said her charisma, other said his Wisdom. I gave them each a +4 bonus to their choice they made. (They didn't know before hand) This is to reflect the fact I want them to stand out above the ordinary. I've also decided I'm going to have their starting city get found by the undead, they'll return to find most, if not all, dead. And this will force them out into the world. It's harsh. I also decided that I'd roll spot/listen checks for them if it's something surprising, so they are truly as clueless as their chars that somethings coming. -thinks- I'm letting them use exalted feats, but warned them if they veer from that path, I'll yank the benefits quickly. Around the time they hit 4th level, I plan to have them meet an eccentric wizard who LOVES to experiment and has actually figured out how to bring back dinosaurs (Kinda a tribute to Jurassic Park.. Just as my Lich organization being called "Umbrella" is a tribute to Resident Evil).. This will end up being how the Paladin gets her mount, since she's small size.. Going to give her a Magebred Warbeast Clawfoot (Eberron Template and MM2 Template on a Eberron velociraptor) - and give her the option to hold her 3rd level feat to make her mount celestial at 4th level when she gets one. Why? I WANT these two to stand out. They will be future NPCs of great importance when this campaign is said and done. Sure, they probably WONT kill the Liches. They won't be able to try a direct attack on them for quite a while. Depends on how long they wanna play these PCs for. But these PCs will end up leading the major force of good against this great evil. Uniting the towns. I also came up with another neat idea. I'm going to map out the world, pre-apocalypse.. Then map it out post-apocalypse.. BUT I'm going to roll %s based on the strengths of the army of each town. WIth a 1-10% chance that they fend off the Undead army. If they succeed, I'm going to bump the % chance up by 1, and roll it again the next month.. all the way up to the end of the year where the campaign starts at. Some cities MAY survive and be a strong hold. None may.. It's really all chance. And I like that. It makes it fun, I think. My players both seem really amped, though. Which tells me that I'm doing a good job creating my first world.
WCH 07-29-05, 11:05 PM	Slight correction... Llolth is one of the default deities of D&D. She just isn't in the PHB because no PC race worships her -- but she's definitely core. Default D&D gods includes these following gods not in PHB: Bahamut, Kurtulmak, Lolth and Tiamat. Then there's the monstrous deities (which, arguably, those four already are)... about 29 of them, in all... and then the obscure Greyhawk gods which are quasi-core, excluded from core only because hardly anyone worships them -- that's another 24. So... that's 57 gods not from the PHB that can be considered to be standard in D&D. Complete Warrior, Vile Darkness and some other books have suggestions for extras, if you really need them. Buy the Complete Divine. Just... buy it. Great book, gives a lot of added information for standard D&D settings where religion is important.
Siduakal 07-30-05, 12:18 AM	o.O Damn, I may have to buy Complete Divine when I go to buy new books.. lol.. I am also considering Dieties and Demigods for the DMs to all enjoy.. (And I may hide the epic book.. I hate winter wights and lava wights)
Siduakal 07-30-05, 01:54 AM	Just set up their "Starting Kit" sorta.. It's STRONG, but keep in mind.. My world has no currency (It's post apocalyptic, no one cares about money currently. They'll trade goods and foods.. but that's about it.. Not worried about gold, what use is it? Most communities share things, but they'll trade with outsider to get rid of what they dont want or need and gain what they do) Bag of Holding III - Useful mundane items, From Silk Rope to Miner's Picks to Hammers/Pitons to Trail Rations - A +2 to Stat item of their choice (Modified to another slot if it takes up a cloak/boot slot) - Boots/Cloak of Elvenkind - Masterwork Bludgeoning Weapon of their choice - 5k to spend(But no gold left over will be kept) - Two Items of my choosing that'll benefit the character to have - Rings of Friend Shield that are connected - Circles of Sound that are connected (Eberron ring) - Primary Weapon of their choice (Which I'll be making as a Weapon of Legacy) - some other lesser things I can't remember cause I'm so damn tired.. I know this is a LOT to start, but I kept in mind that they won't really gain much for QUITE a while. And some of the things I gave them will be necessary to survive (Such as The Boots/Cloak.. that +5 to Hide/Move Silently will be more useful than they can ever imagine)
WCH 07-30-05, 02:15 AM	Deities and Demigods isn't all that interesting... only benefit of it is that it has Phaoronic, Asgaardian and Olympian pantheons, for those who don't want to use the Greyhawk gods. So... if you're a myth buff and would rather use Greek, Egyptian or Norse myths as the basis for your game than the D&D stuff, it's worth buying. Otherwise, not really. At least with Complete Divine you get a bucketload of a prestige classes, a bunch of new feats and spells, and some cool new base classes. Wait, let me correct that: one cool new base class and two un-cool ones. (the good one is Favoured Soul -- divine spontaneous caster, very useful; loses the Cleric's turning/rebuking abilities and domains, but casts way more spells per day -- spontaneously to boot -- and gains some combat abilities like weapon focus/specialization with deity's favoured weapon, etc) Oh, and the relics... the relics are great. They're powerful wondrous items tied to each god... I hope to use them as incentives and plot hooks once my PCs get high enough to be able to use them (they have hitdice requirements). :P As for the starting kit... what level is that for? 1? Have you totalled the cost equivalent of all of it and compared that to the expected character wealth chart in the DMG (page 135 if memory serves)? If not, you should... encounters are balanced for the PCs to have the wealth values on that table, so if they're too far in excess of it, you'll need to compensate by toughening opponents.
Alynn 07-30-05, 02:39 AM	I didn't read all of it... but simple bracelets of some kind could be made for all 7 of them... In fact after the PC's kill the first one they can listen in on the Lich's convo's... be even funnier if they didn't know the lich's were listening to theirs as well. Throw a few things in them like empathy, stuff like that....
Kaligrad 07-30-05, 02:48 AM	Sounds like much fun. You've ubered the villians, and thus ubered the PCs as well. It's like being epic without being Epic. One note, though; if you intend for even some of those strongholds to survive, you might want to at least grant them +5% per wave, instead of 1. Just think about the odds of any of them surviving given your present conditions.
Siduakal 07-30-05, 01:31 PM	Yea, that is true, Kalingrad. I don't want to boost it TOO much. Because well.. The undeads numbers are limitless.. The towns numbers of soldiers aren't. The boost in chance is to reflect their adapting to the tactics that are being used. I could bump it to 3% though. Say that they learn to place traps and such. And yea, I've calculated the value of it all. But the thing is, they'll NEED it to survive in my world. The 7 BBEGs are level 35.. The dieties walk the material plane, also. But they've lost a great deal of their power. (This is to reflect the fact that a LOT of follower died for EVERY religion, and almost all their temples were destroyed) These two PCs are meant to be extraordinary. And they'll learn that all the stuff the villagers of Safe Haven gathered for them. (They're the only PC class ones in Safe Haven of the 116 people there. Well, the Cleric of Heironeous is level 3 Cleric, but he can't leave. And he knows that the two PCs are stronger than he is) Was out of the towns personal equipment collection they all had down there. They'll learn this when they come back and find the town slaughtered and realize it's because they had hardly anything to defend themselves. UNLESS, however, in the 2 weeks game time they are out of the town, they make frequent trips back and give them armor/weapons they get off the undead troops they kill. The reason they get all that wealth, though, is it won't be possible to simply go to a magic shop and buy more stuff. Communities are more about preserving the community than outfitting adventurers for gold. Ya, I know, they'll have to fight stronger stuff. But I'm not concerned with them kicking ass for the first few levels. I want them to be able to tear through the lowest tier of troops.. Its the ones that have ranks that they need to fear. =) I'm also considering adding one stronghold that has a mages school that gets a 20% chance to survive the first onslaught, and each chance after that goes up by 10%. Why? =) They have a lot of construct guards, wizards and the like. And they can keep building more Constructs. Oh btw, the reason I don't need to up the CR of encounters TOO much.. All my undead NPCs will be wearing armor and weapons.. ALL of them(Atleast within logic) . The higher the rank, the better their armor/weapons.
Siduakal 07-30-05, 02:15 PM	I also added a new stipulation. The 5k they can spend cannot be spent to make a weapon +1 or anything, and if their AC exceeds 20(Pre shield) I will make sure that they regret it when they can't hit the enemy and it can hit them. I've also decided.. I'm going to have a few stronghold types.. Type A) The Military Facility.. 40% Chance to survive the onslaught, since it's ALL soldiers and their families. The chance raises by 5% each time. (They're adapting their tactics, setting traps, etc..) Type B) The Stronghold that is primarly KNOWN for its mages and has constructs as its main guard forces.. 30% Chance to survive, going up by 4% each time (They're pumping out more constructs, and making them more effective against undead) Type C) The Stronghold that had a mages guild.. 20% Chance to survive, going up by 3% each time (They're preparing more damage spells, commoners/soldiers are adapting and setting traps) Type D) The standard walled town with soldiers.. 10% Chance to survive, going up by 2% each time (They're adapting, and training commoners to fight, and setting traps) Type E) The standard village without walls.. 5% chance to survive, going up 1% each time (They're erecting walls, training eachother, adapting, and setting traps) And finally.. I'll roll randomly to see which of all the towns I make the "Seven Suns" elite group of soldiers were in when the onslaught hit.. THat town will have a 50% chance higher to survive. (These guys are supposed to be THAT good) Though, after a few months these guys will leave that town to go look elsewhere.