Post/Author/DateTime	Post
SolemnDusk 01-02-07, 02:11 PM	I'm running a game with seven players (all at level 7 right now except one 8th), and was just wondering if anyone could offer me advice for having such a big group. How hard can I make stuff? They just finished a kind of ability testing run I put them through - escort the caravan. I continually increased the difficulty of the encounters, but they pretty much mowed down everything. I had a goblin ambush, a pair of ogres, 17 hyenas, a young blue dragon, something else, and a gargantuan sized animated object, and the animated object (it was a statue of a scorpion out in the desert) gave them the most trouble, but it never seemed like a threat - it just took a long time to whittle it down. Suggestions? I'm sure I could just throw a bunch of crap at them that would make them die, but I didn't want to TPK just a few days into the campaign... :)
jdarksong 01-02-07, 02:29 PM	I'm running with six pcs, and find that you can ramp up the average EL by 2 with little to no problems. Bear in mind this will also depend on what types of pcs you use - point buy vs rolled and all that. With pcs who roll their scores, I say +2 EL is safe for an 'average' encounter.
Oblix 01-02-07, 02:30 PM	Depending on your campaign, you could always introduce a situation where your party is faced with a core character. A prelude to stuff going on later in the campaign. IE, a brush with a powerful necromancer and his entourage of undead, where your characters are in no way meant to combat him, as you the DM would hint it'd cause them failure in their present quest. But at the same time force them to at least fight part of the necromancer's forces as he considers even the 7 of them a minor nuisance, ect ect.
OravennasBrother 01-02-07, 02:55 PM	Increase the numbers of the opponents - also consider what gear/attributes the PC's have (standard for their level or more? 25 point buy equivalent or higher?) and adjust for that. Those little extra +'s add up faster than is apparent. You might also use different monster tactics. Ogres wait behind a turn on a mountain pass. If a scout leads, then he gets pushed over the edge, and the ogres retreat for another try. If no scout, then they surprise the party/caravan at close range. Goblins should snipe at night because they are too weak in melee against larger races. Dragons should evaluate the party and try a flying snatch (grab a horse and leave) making the Caravan master berate the party. The most difficult encounter is not a slugfest, it is a running battle with enemies who won't sit still for a decisive battle.
Aryxbez 01-02-07, 03:02 PM	My method in terms of numbers was to take the chart on pg 48 and whatever numbers they say divide it by 4 (normal party size) Then multiply that by the number of PCs like if it would normally be 4 pcs vs 4 creatures then 7 PCs vs 7creatures Also sometimes that is not good enough, Like OravennasBrother said, a real encounter has actual elements to it that make it more interesting like golblins with cover and slinging top mountains or ogres rolling rocks on PCs to their doom. I think that encounter you had could have went better, unless the dragon was a total wuss. A very young dragon, Or it did not use what superior tactics it should have
Grand Theft Otto 01-02-07, 03:18 PM	In our current game, there are 6 PC's and frequently an NPC companion. I've foun that upping the numbers of foes works better than simply ramping up the CR's they face for average fights. One other thing to consider is that with that many PC's, the ability to focus fire on one target is greatly increased. As such, you'll need to design major BBEG combats with multiple objectives that need to be completed at the same time. For instance, in a recent battle, the PC's were facing some fiendish locathas attempting to summon an aspect of Zuggtmoy. Their high priestess was at the top of a zugguraut, leading the ceremony. At the bottom were 10 cultists surrounding the sacrificial victim, who had to all be killed in order to stop the ritual. The cultists had also imprsioned a hydra in order to breed it with an otyugh to create gulguthydras (the hydra was less than pleased about this arrangement). So 2 PC's went to kill the cultists, the ranger/rogue released the hydra to rampage around the compound, and the other 3 went to fight the high priest and her head bodyguards. Setting battles up like this will help avoid some MMOG zerg fest were its a horde of PC's against one NPC.
Dontan 01-02-07, 04:24 PM	Kobolds... Hundreds of kobolds. Be sure to throw in traps, and give the kobolds enviromental advantages. (Murder holes, etc.)
Traevanon 01-02-07, 04:48 PM	Having run a game that regularly had 10-12 players I can offer a bit of advice: # of players modifier to CR Difficulty 1,2 players, CR-1 3,4 players, CR same as average level 5,6 players, CR+1 7,8 players, CR+2 9,10 players, CR+3 Increase experience and treasure awards for this adjustment since it will be divided by the number of players. Powerful point buy: +1 or +2 CR Complete Series allowed: +1 CR Anything goes (persistant spells, wishes, clones, time manipulation etc): +1 CR Treasure value above or below recommended: -1 to +1 CR Do not increase experience awards for this CR adjustment, treat encounters as if they were of a CR before these modifiers. Once you start to adjust encounters, keep an eye on your group. Most even level CR encounters will feel "easy" to you. The party wont lose many spells, the fighters will handle almost all the load, it might take some luck just to make the cleric patch the party up afterwards. An encounter that feels like the party is in real danger, or if they start needing to use consumables or they end the day after just one or two fights is about +2 CR above their real level. One where they throw everything at the enemy and one or two of the party dies is about CR+4. Of course luck and tactics play into things, so you have run several encounters before you get a good idea of where your party is really at CR-wise.
SolemnDusk 01-02-07, 08:45 PM	I think that encounter you had could have went better, unless the dragon was a total wuss. A very young dragon, Or it did not use what superior tactics it should have Actually, it was the second-oldest age group... Very Young, I think. Hey everyone, thanks for the tips! I think increasing the number of enemies is probably the best thing, like most of you have said. I'll see how it goes next game... Anyone want me to keep them posted? (via this thread, of course)