8 player campaing, new DM, need help [Archive] - Wizards Community

8 player campaing, new DM, need help [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Blindman6642
09-03-06, 09:03 AM Im a basicaly new DM and need help with my campaign.

We just started (no encounters yet but PCs made) and I need help with my party. I have tons of ideas for adventures but am having trouble figuring out EL/CR for my parties encounters. If I have 7-8 PCs how do I determine what encounters to give them? Should I throw in more monsters or make each monster harder?
Our party is (if it helps)
-Fighter
-Barbarian
-Palidin
-Knight
-Rogue
-Ranger
-Cleric
-Beguiler

I know it seem un-balanced (1/2 primary melee combatants) but I couldnt talk them out of it and didnt want to ruin there game by forcing them to play different characters. I figure the only advice I can give them is watch out later. So (since this is our party and making it smaller is not an option) how do I make encounters? Do I send a single 4th level mage after them for a 4th level encounter, or 2 2nd level fighters? And will this cover xp, difficulty, treasure, etc. I really could use some over-all general help on this one.

Thank you very much,
Blindman
Feriin
09-03-06, 09:09 AM This is how I handled a group of 12 players once.

I didnt alter the size of the encounters, I didn't alter the level of the mobs. I only divided the exp up between all the players when they defeated the monsters.
Righter8
09-03-06, 09:15 AM I haven't encountered this situation before, but I would handle it as 2 different parties.
So say everyone is 4th level, I would set every encounter as a 4th level encounter times two. This may not work precisely, and may need to be tweaked.
I may be wrong, but if you want to go by the DMG, I think you would add their (the PCs) levels together and divide by 4 and that will set the EL of the group.
so 8 4th level characters would be a EL8. 8 10th level would be EL20 (which I think would not work out very well).
Try an encounter and then go from there. Make the next one hardr or easier depending on how it goes. Remember too that some encounters will be more difficult than others just based on the classes involved. Ask me about the party with no arcane casters who went up against a swarm of dread blossoms.
Mentality
09-03-06, 12:54 PM According to the Encounter Calculator (http://www.d20srd.org/encounterCalculator.htm), the party level is basically the party's average level + 2, unless they're level one in which case their party level is 2.
swallowyersoul
09-03-06, 02:53 PM i'm with righter on this one.

with a large party, it's tempting to up your CR a bit. trouble is, the higher CR critters hit more often, dish out more damage, kill more PCs. plus they have more hit points and higher armor class, so the PCs take longer to put the monster down while it's dropping characters every round.

for each encounter, design two level-appropriate encounters. whether you double the number of opponents or have two different groups, or some mooks plus a boss all work.

i've run a couple of 8-10 player games, and that's definitely the way to go.
shadowfox628
09-03-06, 03:15 PM Well, firstly, make encounters that they can do. Don't throw a creature that can only be harmed by magic at them. The Monster Manual has the rules for the CR system... Or at least I think it does (I honestly don't use the MM, it'd take too long to set up a random encounter on the spot).

Don't worry about adventures. Pick a few that you like, and use them. If the PCs enjoy them, then continue with that style. If they don't like it very much, consider changing the style a bit. Each PC varies, but don't be afraid to do something you like or that you'll have fun doing. Just because you're the DM doesn't mean you get to have no fun.
gastropod
09-04-06, 05:50 PM I am currently running a party of 8-10 players through the Red Hand of Doom. So far what I have done to keep the game challenging is either double the number of enemies, or in the case of a single monster enounter, I up their challenge by one level or so and add a small support cast for the large monster.

Basically, if the size of the group doubles, that adds 2 to the CR. So a double sized group that is normally requires a CR4, turns into CR6.

Here is an example for both:
1) There is an opening ambush with 6 hobgoblin warriors, and later 1 hell hound, 2 hobgoblin fighters and a 3rd level hobgoblin cleric. I turned this encounter into 12 hobgoblins, 2 hell hounds 4 hg 4th level fighters, a 3rd level cleric and a 3rd level sorceror. This proved to be very well balanced and a great encounter.

The trick to doubling the encounter, is to try to run the doubled group size as two mini groups. If all of the monsters are clumped in one area, the wizards fireball will get twice as many enemies with the same attack. I try to have the two groups of enemies spread out far enough that only half will get blasted at any one point in time. Also, hopefully you can grab the attention of half of the fighters, and spellcasters for one group, and the attention of the other half for the next group. So in essence, you are running two mini battles.

There is no getting around how long battles take with this many people and doubling the monsters.

2) The other encounter I changed was an ambush by a 6 headed hydra. Knowing that the group was well versed with fire magic like fireballs and flamestrike, I changed it to a 6-headed pyro hydra. This makes the beast immune to fire, have a breath weapon for all heads, and increases the CR by 2. This is still completely doable by a group of 4, but a group of 8 has more resources to rotate out and heal the wounded. So next I added in minor annoyances in the back with 8 or so stirges. That only kept them busy for 2 rounds, but it prevented the spellcasters from just blasting the hydra with other spells.

Once they took care of the minor annoyance, they ganged up on the hydra, and brought it down.
gastropod
09-04-06, 06:36 PM One more thing I forgot,

If you are in dungeons or rooms, you will need to make the size of the rooms larger if you are going to double the size of the encounters, sometimes things that were intended to be in favor of the enemy for an encounter can be changed if they are forced to fight in cramped quarters, like a minotaur and its powerful charge.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Blindman6642 09-03-06, 09:03 AM	Im a basicaly new DM and need help with my campaign. We just started (no encounters yet but PCs made) and I need help with my party. I have tons of ideas for adventures but am having trouble figuring out EL/CR for my parties encounters. If I have 7-8 PCs how do I determine what encounters to give them? Should I throw in more monsters or make each monster harder? Our party is (if it helps) -Fighter -Barbarian -Palidin -Knight -Rogue -Ranger -Cleric -Beguiler I know it seem un-balanced (1/2 primary melee combatants) but I couldnt talk them out of it and didnt want to ruin there game by forcing them to play different characters. I figure the only advice I can give them is watch out later. So (since this is our party and making it smaller is not an option) how do I make encounters? Do I send a single 4th level mage after them for a 4th level encounter, or 2 2nd level fighters? And will this cover xp, difficulty, treasure, etc. I really could use some over-all general help on this one. Thank you very much, Blindman
Feriin 09-03-06, 09:09 AM	This is how I handled a group of 12 players once. I didnt alter the size of the encounters, I didn't alter the level of the mobs. I only divided the exp up between all the players when they defeated the monsters.
Righter8 09-03-06, 09:15 AM	I haven't encountered this situation before, but I would handle it as 2 different parties. So say everyone is 4th level, I would set every encounter as a 4th level encounter times two. This may not work precisely, and may need to be tweaked. I may be wrong, but if you want to go by the DMG, I think you would add their (the PCs) levels together and divide by 4 and that will set the EL of the group. so 8 4th level characters would be a EL8. 8 10th level would be EL20 (which I think would not work out very well). Try an encounter and then go from there. Make the next one hardr or easier depending on how it goes. Remember too that some encounters will be more difficult than others just based on the classes involved. Ask me about the party with no arcane casters who went up against a swarm of dread blossoms.
Mentality 09-03-06, 12:54 PM	According to the Encounter Calculator (http://www.d20srd.org/encounterCalculator.htm), the party level is basically the party's average level + 2, unless they're level one in which case their party level is 2.
swallowyersoul 09-03-06, 02:53 PM	i'm with righter on this one. with a large party, it's tempting to up your CR a bit. trouble is, the higher CR critters hit more often, dish out more damage, kill more PCs. plus they have more hit points and higher armor class, so the PCs take longer to put the monster down while it's dropping characters every round. for each encounter, design two level-appropriate encounters. whether you double the number of opponents or have two different groups, or some mooks plus a boss all work. i've run a couple of 8-10 player games, and that's definitely the way to go.
shadowfox628 09-03-06, 03:15 PM	Well, firstly, make encounters that they can do. Don't throw a creature that can only be harmed by magic at them. The Monster Manual has the rules for the CR system... Or at least I think it does (I honestly don't use the MM, it'd take too long to set up a random encounter on the spot). Don't worry about adventures. Pick a few that you like, and use them. If the PCs enjoy them, then continue with that style. If they don't like it very much, consider changing the style a bit. Each PC varies, but don't be afraid to do something you like or that you'll have fun doing. Just because you're the DM doesn't mean you get to have no fun.
gastropod 09-04-06, 05:50 PM	I am currently running a party of 8-10 players through the Red Hand of Doom. So far what I have done to keep the game challenging is either double the number of enemies, or in the case of a single monster enounter, I up their challenge by one level or so and add a small support cast for the large monster. Basically, if the size of the group doubles, that adds 2 to the CR. So a double sized group that is normally requires a CR4, turns into CR6. Here is an example for both: 1) There is an opening ambush with 6 hobgoblin warriors, and later 1 hell hound, 2 hobgoblin fighters and a 3rd level hobgoblin cleric. I turned this encounter into 12 hobgoblins, 2 hell hounds 4 hg 4th level fighters, a 3rd level cleric and a 3rd level sorceror. This proved to be very well balanced and a great encounter. The trick to doubling the encounter, is to try to run the doubled group size as two mini groups. If all of the monsters are clumped in one area, the wizards fireball will get twice as many enemies with the same attack. I try to have the two groups of enemies spread out far enough that only half will get blasted at any one point in time. Also, hopefully you can grab the attention of half of the fighters, and spellcasters for one group, and the attention of the other half for the next group. So in essence, you are running two mini battles. There is no getting around how long battles take with this many people and doubling the monsters. 2) The other encounter I changed was an ambush by a 6 headed hydra. Knowing that the group was well versed with fire magic like fireballs and flamestrike, I changed it to a 6-headed pyro hydra. This makes the beast immune to fire, have a breath weapon for all heads, and increases the CR by 2. This is still completely doable by a group of 4, but a group of 8 has more resources to rotate out and heal the wounded. So next I added in minor annoyances in the back with 8 or so stirges. That only kept them busy for 2 rounds, but it prevented the spellcasters from just blasting the hydra with other spells. Once they took care of the minor annoyance, they ganged up on the hydra, and brought it down.
gastropod 09-04-06, 06:36 PM	One more thing I forgot, If you are in dungeons or rooms, you will need to make the size of the rooms larger if you are going to double the size of the encounters, sometimes things that were intended to be in favor of the enemy for an encounter can be changed if they are forced to fight in cramped quarters, like a minotaur and its powerful charge.