Post/Author/DateTime	Post
razilen 04-02-08, 03:36 AM	i bet everyone has some so share the annoyence! Make a title for Each story and explain who fault it is 1 "HOW WAS I MEANT TO KNOW SHE WAS GOING TO HELP!!" we were exploring a bar and i "the rouge" deicides to have some fun a pick lock my way into a pricy cabin to find a dead sand dwarven body?!?! we then went through task to get upstaris after hearing there was a necromancer up there by the drunken guard[we had our wepeons taken before we enterd except for my rouges raipier and fold out bow[my DM makes some weird items] so after we got up staris the map kinda looked like this ___________________ _________________/ W -wizerd I C-cleric stairs- I I N-necro here F- fighter I I ___________________ I I /_R-me here________I I sorry if it dosnt work it involves alot of spaces...... any way we starte dthe figth only to realize that the thin fog in the room was actully a spell preventing barrier meaning spells could go badly wroung and seeing that the necromancer was also a linch my idea was to run [the anti magic barrier has 4 possible effects the spell works works worse then normal , better then normall, or goes absulutly haywiere!! with my good hide he didnt know i was there but he spotted the wizzerd and blasted him! the fight and the cleric with one hit! the cleric blokes the blast but the mage and fighter go flying back!! the cleric then tried to cast a spell... it went very poorly he did cure critical wounds or something it went haywire and luckerly it [percentage die] picked to target the wizzerd _____________________ _________________/ W I C I I N-necro here F I I ___________________ I I /R________________I I then it was my turn i summened a bunch of fire shirker's[went better then normall and threw 5 of them around the corner while the Necromancer talks to the cleric then i pulled out my bow with quick draw i got to criticals but it didnt do much beside stun him [did i mention he was a epic?? yeh.. this is where we found that out] but as my hit struke a explosion went off under neath us as we her flames rise in the bar! the fighter went [his turn was stepping ifront of the mage and grabbing a small table as a shield and the wizzerd who tried to see if they dould go down the staris and realized that they coulden't because of a mass of flames then it was his turn again he tried to blast me but missed then the bartender came up the staris carrying 2 hammers i declare "i open fire on him know!! critical!! CONFIRMED!!! sneak attack 6, 4, 5, 3, 5, 6, times 3 ..." then i look at my fellow players who think just like me that our luck just came around!! till the dm says "he was on your side...." then we practically just got abilteratede.... the fighter got killed first ...then the cleric when he tried a full charge then me from tryint to go through the flames only getting lost in a maze of rubble then finally the mage who was following me till he too was blasted to death
razilen 04-02-08, 03:51 AM	turns out if i just hit the wall just south of me i wouldove fale out of the building.....
Etarnon 04-02-08, 04:23 AM	A plot cannot be derailed if the DM is flexible, and doesn't design closed plots with few options for PCs. The plot should be "Whatever happens as a result of the PCs choices." Sadly, many DMs fall down the rabbit hole of railroading by wanting to drive the story a certain way.
Jutter 04-02-08, 06:01 AM	A plot cannot be derailed if the DM is flexible, and doesn't design closed plots with few options for PCs. The plot should be "Whatever happens as a result of the PCs choices." *snif* that's beautiful. I even got directions to that world. Second star to the right, and straight on 'til morning. ;) Sadly, many DMs fall down the rabbit hole of railroading by wanting to drive the story a certain way. Sadly, every DM starts out as a beginner. Most need a contained environment (in game) to give the players the best game they have to offer. Don't get me wrong: I dislike railroading. I just prefer it if the alternative is watching my wet-behind-the-ears DM page through his rulebooks for 50 minutes of every hour, or having to think for 15 minutes to find something to keep us busy. But back on topic (which wasn't "this is how D&D should be played" ;)). We played a one-shot once, where the DM told us to create 5th level characters who would be given a +3 quarterstaff each. We basically started out in the shop where we just bought the quarterstaffs and a paladin would show up to ask us to help him in a quest where rust monsters were involved. Since (for the first time ever) this DM allowed all alignments, he ended up with 4 evil characters and 1 CN character. Me: "So we just paid 18,000 each for a +3 quarterstaff, and we're in the shop?" DM: "Yup." Me: "I rob the store, this guy owns over 90,000 gp right now." Others: "Yeah, we join in." So we rob the store and kill the owner. The paladin shows up, tries to stop us, and gets killed in the process. The DM had enough wits to give the paladin a written order, pointing towards this great artifact of evil that is guarded by rust monsters and should be destroyed. We metagamed that the best game would be if we headed towards that carefully designed dungeon, so we let our characters decide they had to get that artifact for themselves. After spending 90,000 gp on additional gear. So this dungeon became a walkover due to the extra gear, and we finished up way before midnight. So one of us decides to act Chaotic Stupid and rolls that artifact into the temple of Heironeous, where the high priest was performing a sermon at the time. This became some sort of epic battle. Due to the priests not being armed and barely having any combat spells, it was a tough fight for a 5th level party. It involved a lot of paging through books, which took up most of the night. The high-priest got away just in time, just before real-life morning. In the end, we had a great time, even though everyone did stuff that's generally considered 'bad' at these boards. Trust me, I am aware of all of those mistakes and bad conduct, but feel free to point them out anyway. The DM was repeatedly asked if he was up to this (after it turned out we had 4 evil characters, after the paladin was killed, and right before the artifact was thrown into the temple), and he was willing to 'give it a try'. I applaud him for pulling through and making it such a memorable evening for everyone involved.
razilen 04-02-08, 07:10 AM	i am so sick of rollover battles personally no one in my group has the guts to kill..... so it is just normall battle after normall battle with so little plot...[rarly we get a chalenge where the rouge shines never a challenge for a druid..... or even a obstical
Etarnon 04-02-08, 07:34 AM	Jutter Wrote: Sadly, every DM starts out as a beginner. And many continue to act like a beginner, many years later. The main point I'm trying to make being: This thread is already presupposing that the DM in question is not at fault, the players are for "Messing with / derailing the 'Assigned' plot." Even in your example, your guys did what they wanted, and the DM said okay, here we go, and "Ran It." The fact that he's got stores with magic items (bug no no ) with no guards and wards (even bigger no no) was his initial design flaw. Not considering alignment was his next. However, those being the initial conditions, he did the right thing (in my mind) which was Run The Game, Come What May. Maybe I've already derailed the thread. I object to it's initial stance that derailed plot is the player's fault. A lot of times it is inflexible DMing. Now, yes, I have fallen into such things also, and had whole scenarios derailed , after players agreed to accept a mission, then did nothing in accordance with that mission, or a singleton player messing it up for the rest. Backstabbing others because "That's the nature of my character" - yeah, we've all seen it. And I have derailed my own plots, when I found a better scenario by what players have chosen.
Krusk 04-02-08, 09:42 AM	There are definatly things that can swing the plot of a game in a drasticall diffrent direction than both the players and DM expected. I think thats what is ment by plot de-railers. For instance, contracting lycanthropy from a random encounter. Same for vampirism. PC death at low levels. A total party wipe. ect.
Cranewings 04-02-08, 10:22 AM	I got a de-rail for you. I was running a very classey super heroes game. I was running it according to the comic book code. The villians almost never killed heroes, ever. They wern't trying to. They were out to take over the city, or rob the bank, or whatever. Well, the plot got a little thick, and a couple players decided to start taking it to the next level. After capturing one npc and killing him because they decided the prison couldn't hold him, they stopped a robbery of a tech firm and killed him too, infront of cameras. I had to pull out the npc super heroes to arrest a party member and throw out the comic code, sense all the villians in the world found out that the heroes of Atlatnic City aren't screwing around.
WilliamTanner 04-02-08, 04:11 PM	It may be that a DM shouldn't write a book and then run players through his book from page 1 .. but a DM does have to prepare for a session by creating adventure opportunities. If players sabotage those 'plot hooks', then the DM doesn't have much left. If players decide, "Peasant bleeding out in the middle of the road? Tracks leading off to the north? Let's loot his soon-to-be corpse and head south." .. the DM is unlikely to provide an interesting experience for the evening. I have a fair amount of respect for Etarnon's advice in general, but I think he's getting a bit lofty to claim that a game session cannot be sabotaged by players. I do a hell of a lot of preparation, and to have it all for naught is shafting my experience as a participant in the game. There is a difference between "you are suddenly surrounded by an army you had no idea was there and are taken captive (fast forward 15 minutes of narrative) so what do you do now?" and "you can proceed down the hole, assault the people who have befriended you, assault their enemies, or go back to town".
WilliamTanner 04-02-08, 04:16 PM	But on topic: 1) Attempt diplomacy with every npc / monster you encounter. Avoid any combat. 2) Never attempt diplomacy. Assume everyone is plotting your demise, and attack them on sight. (Makes it hard to get involved in plots.) 3) Demand payment from everyone you help or who asks for help. 4) Spend as much time as you can get away with shopping. Haggle merchants down, every time, and walk away if you can't get ridiculous prices.
RobbyPants 04-02-08, 06:21 PM	Taverns The biggest source of both adventures and plot de-railers.
Jutter 04-03-08, 10:28 AM	Maybe I've already derailed the thread. Which was basically the point I was trying to make. ;) There is a difference between 'should' and 'is'. You and me agree on a lot of levels about what 'should', though. So no argument here. Now on with the anecdotes. I'd love to read some more of those. I'm the kind of DM that reads the group's summary of previous sessions, shows up with a list of random NPC names, and runs a five hour game from the top of his head. And still my group manages to surprise me every now and then, and I need a few seconds to change gear and keep up with them. They enjoy it when that happens, so I generally let them know and complain out loud :) Providing entertainment is why I'm DM in the first place.
Arrowhen 04-03-08, 01:05 PM	As a DM, I've been guilty of some horrible plot derailing. It was always the same mistake: the players, through their actions, would create the beginnings of a kick ass plot, but since it didn't fit with the one I'd already come up with ahead of time, I'd panic and do everything I could to force things "back on track." I finally came to my senses and stopped doing that, but the temptation still crops up from time to time and needs to be mercilessly beaten back into the dark recesses of my subconscious when it does.
razilen 04-03-08, 08:51 PM	im sorry if i lead you wroung ,this is just for talking about plots being derailed havening your story knocked off its tracks and how you fixed help it get back on its tracks[if you did]
Doom_Linnorm 04-04-08, 04:41 AM	Here's my 2 coppers on it. I have plots, and they do derail, but I let them and just swap to a different plot (and build a new one on the wreck of the old one). For example: A key thing that was supposed to happen was a war between two human kingdoms, but eventually they managed to do some manipulating and assassinating which prevented war from breaking out, I just rolled with it and it works, currently they are facing another crisis unaware that the corpse of my plot had Create Undead Plot Twist cast on it. BWHAHHAHAHHAAHHAHAHHAHAH :evillaugh Hope that was of any use.
Great_Zamboni 04-07-08, 06:44 PM	So, our party was at a polical function when a major noble was assassinated in what turned out to be a plot to spark a war between human and elven kingdoms. We never saw the assassin, never had a chance to interfere with the event, but my character (CN bard whose single goal in life was to become a super-theatrical, impractical, over-the-top stereotypical BBEG) leapt up to the podium (over the noblewoman's corpse - she'd been making a speech), claimed credit for the murder, prophecied doom and destruction upon the world, dropped a smoke bomb and ran. After escaping the guards and nearly being killed by the rest of the party, I convinced the party (and the DM) that the best course of action would be to keep trying to make it look like my char had had the noble killed. We ended up averting the war by convincing both kingdoms that a third-level Bard was a world-threatening Evil Overlord. He got killed, of course, at the end. I later found out from the DM that the assassination was supposed to have been the beginning of a couple years of in-game downtime, and that the game would have picked up again, set after the war had devastated the countryside. :P Whoops.