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Post/Author/DateTime Post
Sarella Starshine
04-27-05, 01:36 AM i had a very bizare, yet fun game today. first of all, the entire party is 3rd level (cleric (NPC), wizard, barbarian, warlock, rogue), and they were clearing the dungeon of goblins (several small tribes of orcs and goblins were hired to whittle the town guard down and they holed up in a ruin complex right outside of town). this is the chain of events that had us in stiches while at the same time going 'wth'.

first, the goblins knew they were coming (they did some things the previous meeting before heading to town and resting that let the goblins know that people were after them, and the party effectively trapped them in the dungon). so they were met when they got to the floor by 10 goblin warriors and 4 adepts, well the party mowed them down (one begged for mercy but since the barbarian is NE....smush). that wasn't the bad part...

later on, they got to a room with 6 goblins and were hacking thier way though and when the goblins got down to 2, one took off to call his brethen in the next room (which he got to before the barbarian came up to him and decapitated him). so..they had 6 more goblins come in and join the party. when those were down to 3, 2 took off in oppoisite directions to call thier brethern in the next two rooms, so...instead of 3, came 11 from one room and 7 from the next...well, the room they now moved in had very limited area for movement (filled with barrels and piles of crates), so the party managed to block the two goblin hordes to the narrow hallways... by the time the battle was finally over, the grand total of goblin bodies was 30....and the cleric healed once.

*shakes head* those goblins should have been able to swarm the party, but instead due to superior party tactics...i just love my party :love: . mind you, i am not upset at all at them for ruining my fun, after all, i was just as amazed as them that they got though that without a scratch. (well, the barbarian had several)

anyone else where even though you deployed good tactics, that the party had better and just trounced what you had planned?
Dash Branaghan
04-27-05, 01:45 AM anyone else where even though you deployed good tactics, that the party had better and just trounced what you had planned?

Nope.

But then again, I'm the tactical genius of my gaming group. :D

Dash
Flushmaster
04-27-05, 02:09 AM The closest to a "tactical genius" I've ever had was a megamunchkin powergamer who would always find a way to make his 6th level fighter have a +14/+9 attack bonus, while using power attack to it's full potential, and deal about 20 points of damage per hit. Maybe I exxagerate a little...he'd have to have a 9th level character to do that. Still, if I'd wanted to I could have set up a "fair" encounter (though the party would have the munchkin edge) and cream them all. But I didn't want to deal with the crap I'd get if I didn't let him use his super cool abilities, so I actualy pulled some punches at times when I could have done something to cause major damage. Then again, a few other members of that group, along with munch boy, were annoying: the biggest thing was the "you should roll to randomly choose targets of the monsters' attacks each turns (in the open), because it isn't fair to gang up on one of us." Of course, munch boy helped them make their characters, and they were ganging up on the monster with maxed out attack bonuses, sneak attacks, etc. But I had to pull punches to let them win. Now, they could take an encounter 2 levels higher than themselves if the combat was just a slugging match...but not one of appropriate level with "smart" monsters that used tactics. I'd say I was the tactical genius there, but for all I know, it could have been a case of the one eyed man in the kingdom of the blind. Or maybe a beholder in the kingdom of the blind. To top it off, all but one of them are horrible roleplayers; the only one who's not a munchkin doesn't whine or complain at all. I don't play with that group anymore (to top it off, one of them is the worlds most self centered person, and three other players were wrapped around her finger). I don't know how that one poor, innocent (okay, I've held OOC conversations with her and "innocent" does not apply), pleasant, and even nice player can stand being around them. If I can get another game going in this area, I plan to invite her to it.

So, Sarella, my answer is no, I haven't had players do things the smart way. And frankly I'm jealous of you.
olshanski_home
04-27-05, 10:02 AM Goblins aren't the smartest fellows, but they should be able to defend thier home territory well enough.
If your players used better tactics then the goblins on neutral ground, that is fine and expected.

If your players used better tactics than the goblins in the goblins stronghold, then I think you probably could or should have played them better.

The goblins wouldn't walk into a meat-grinder to get killed... if the party was in an enclosed area the goblins might have started throwing in flasks of oil to burn out the party... or else leave the party there while they erected fortifications and gave themselves a crossfire type position with caltrops in front of them.

I don't know the layout, but in all of my years of playing, no party ever has better tactics than the opponents when the opponents are reasonably intelligent and defending thier home turf.
Fraser1986
04-27-05, 10:07 AM Although the goblins hadn't planned on being trapped in the cave. So perhaps they didn't have the chance to stock up on oil, alchemist's flasks etc...

But i know what you mean, usually the defender has the advantage
Sarella Starshine
04-27-05, 04:53 PM like i said, they (the orcs and goblins) were used to fighting the town guard in well planned raids (but not planned by them), and the town guard is not that effective. the area that this occured was in one room that brached off into 3 rooms with a secret door that led further down, but there was no way the goblins would ever go past the secret door because what was down there was far far worse than the players above. the players had effectively trapped the goblins in those three rooms. also the players came back to the ruins at most 24 hrs after they trapped the goblins inside the ruins. so, the goblins knew the players were coming, and had to use the most effective way that they knew (since they did not have access to the BBEG's stratigic mind) to either run the players off or kill them.

also, the goblins and orcs were transplanted by the BBEG to the ruins and were told to raze the town, decimate the town guard, and to use these tactics to do so and they will get paid (the payment was the spoils of the town). so they (the goblins and orcs) really didn't know the area, were lax on thier duty about guarding and traping and all that jazz because 1) the few raids the town guard did were not successful (the players rescued the few town guardsmen that were alive, the rest were dead), 2) while the BBEG had this all planned out, he didn't count on the town guard sending off for the players (that he knew as children) to help him.

basicly, the players came to town, talked to the town guard, set out for the ruins, all ready decimated the orcs, found the pit that led to the second floor (goblins), pulled up the ladder from the pit, tossed a vial of alchemical fire down the pit (alerted the goblins but did not kill any), pulled a table over the hole, piled all the armor the orcs were wearing on the table, went back to town, rested, healed, stocked up on potions and some scrolls, headed back down.

all the goblins knew was that people were coming, no clue to the strength or numbers, so they did the best thier minds could come up with (which wasn't much, but).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Sarella Starshine 04-27-05, 01:36 AM	i had a very bizare, yet fun game today. first of all, the entire party is 3rd level (cleric (NPC), wizard, barbarian, warlock, rogue), and they were clearing the dungeon of goblins (several small tribes of orcs and goblins were hired to whittle the town guard down and they holed up in a ruin complex right outside of town). this is the chain of events that had us in stiches while at the same time going 'wth'. first, the goblins knew they were coming (they did some things the previous meeting before heading to town and resting that let the goblins know that people were after them, and the party effectively trapped them in the dungon). so they were met when they got to the floor by 10 goblin warriors and 4 adepts, well the party mowed them down (one begged for mercy but since the barbarian is NE....smush). that wasn't the bad part... later on, they got to a room with 6 goblins and were hacking thier way though and when the goblins got down to 2, one took off to call his brethen in the next room (which he got to before the barbarian came up to him and decapitated him). so..they had 6 more goblins come in and join the party. when those were down to 3, 2 took off in oppoisite directions to call thier brethern in the next two rooms, so...instead of 3, came 11 from one room and 7 from the next...well, the room they now moved in had very limited area for movement (filled with barrels and piles of crates), so the party managed to block the two goblin hordes to the narrow hallways... by the time the battle was finally over, the grand total of goblin bodies was 30....and the cleric healed once. shakes head those goblins should have been able to swarm the party, but instead due to superior party tactics...i just love my party :love: . mind you, i am not upset at all at them for ruining my fun, after all, i was just as amazed as them that they got though that without a scratch. (well, the barbarian had several) anyone else where even though you deployed good tactics, that the party had better and just trounced what you had planned?
Dash Branaghan 04-27-05, 01:45 AM	anyone else where even though you deployed good tactics, that the party had better and just trounced what you had planned? Nope. But then again, I'm the tactical genius of my gaming group. :D Dash
Flushmaster 04-27-05, 02:09 AM	The closest to a "tactical genius" I've ever had was a megamunchkin powergamer who would always find a way to make his 6th level fighter have a +14/+9 attack bonus, while using power attack to it's full potential, and deal about 20 points of damage per hit. Maybe I exxagerate a little...he'd have to have a 9th level character to do that. Still, if I'd wanted to I could have set up a "fair" encounter (though the party would have the munchkin edge) and cream them all. But I didn't want to deal with the crap I'd get if I didn't let him use his super cool abilities, so I actualy pulled some punches at times when I could have done something to cause major damage. Then again, a few other members of that group, along with munch boy, were annoying: the biggest thing was the "you should roll to randomly choose targets of the monsters' attacks each turns (in the open), because it isn't fair to gang up on one of us." Of course, munch boy helped them make their characters, and they were ganging up on the monster with maxed out attack bonuses, sneak attacks, etc. But I had to pull punches to let them win. Now, they could take an encounter 2 levels higher than themselves if the combat was just a slugging match...but not one of appropriate level with "smart" monsters that used tactics. I'd say I was the tactical genius there, but for all I know, it could have been a case of the one eyed man in the kingdom of the blind. Or maybe a beholder in the kingdom of the blind. To top it off, all but one of them are horrible roleplayers; the only one who's not a munchkin doesn't whine or complain at all. I don't play with that group anymore (to top it off, one of them is the worlds most self centered person, and three other players were wrapped around her finger). I don't know how that one poor, innocent (okay, I've held OOC conversations with her and "innocent" does not apply), pleasant, and even nice player can stand being around them. If I can get another game going in this area, I plan to invite her to it. So, Sarella, my answer is no, I haven't had players do things the smart way. And frankly I'm jealous of you.
olshanski_home 04-27-05, 10:02 AM	Goblins aren't the smartest fellows, but they should be able to defend thier home territory well enough. If your players used better tactics then the goblins on neutral ground, that is fine and expected. If your players used better tactics than the goblins in the goblins stronghold, then I think you probably could or should have played them better. The goblins wouldn't walk into a meat-grinder to get killed... if the party was in an enclosed area the goblins might have started throwing in flasks of oil to burn out the party... or else leave the party there while they erected fortifications and gave themselves a crossfire type position with caltrops in front of them. I don't know the layout, but in all of my years of playing, no party ever has better tactics than the opponents when the opponents are reasonably intelligent and defending thier home turf.
Fraser1986 04-27-05, 10:07 AM	Although the goblins hadn't planned on being trapped in the cave. So perhaps they didn't have the chance to stock up on oil, alchemist's flasks etc... But i know what you mean, usually the defender has the advantage
Sarella Starshine 04-27-05, 04:53 PM	like i said, they (the orcs and goblins) were used to fighting the town guard in well planned raids (but not planned by them), and the town guard is not that effective. the area that this occured was in one room that brached off into 3 rooms with a secret door that led further down, but there was no way the goblins would ever go past the secret door because what was down there was far far worse than the players above. the players had effectively trapped the goblins in those three rooms. also the players came back to the ruins at most 24 hrs after they trapped the goblins inside the ruins. so, the goblins knew the players were coming, and had to use the most effective way that they knew (since they did not have access to the BBEG's stratigic mind) to either run the players off or kill them. also, the goblins and orcs were transplanted by the BBEG to the ruins and were told to raze the town, decimate the town guard, and to use these tactics to do so and they will get paid (the payment was the spoils of the town). so they (the goblins and orcs) really didn't know the area, were lax on thier duty about guarding and traping and all that jazz because 1) the few raids the town guard did were not successful (the players rescued the few town guardsmen that were alive, the rest were dead), 2) while the BBEG had this all planned out, he didn't count on the town guard sending off for the players (that he knew as children) to help him. basicly, the players came to town, talked to the town guard, set out for the ruins, all ready decimated the orcs, found the pit that led to the second floor (goblins), pulled up the ladder from the pit, tossed a vial of alchemical fire down the pit (alerted the goblins but did not kill any), pulled a table over the hole, piled all the armor the orcs were wearing on the table, went back to town, rested, healed, stocked up on potions and some scrolls, headed back down. all the goblins knew was that people were coming, no clue to the strength or numbers, so they did the best thier minds could come up with (which wasn't much, but).