Post/Author/DateTime	Post
11d7 02-13-08, 11:59 PM	Who else here other than me will not be able to keep our homebrew setting running in 4th edition at least at first or at all? I would really like to hear why. I didnt put this in the 4th edition section because there I know it would turn into a flame war, its not as likely to here. Personally the problems with converting my campaign setting into 4th edition are: A) The most important nation to the campaign setting is a Psiocracy, its hard to run such a place without any Psions or Psychic Warriors to make up the ruleing class with. We know that Wizard powers will be nothing like a Psions so a cut-and-paste job on names and a few abilities isnt viable. B) The second most important nation to the campaign setting is a Necrocracy, its hard to run such a place without any Necromancers. Like Psionics, the Shadow power sourse will not be released right away though I might expect it sooner. C) Wizards in our setting have generally been Conjuration (Summoning), Necromancy and Transmutation and building magitech and construct focused, all of these more or less confirmed missing from the new Wizards abilties in any ammount that makes them a viable concept if at all. D) The setting doesnt include western style religon so clerics and paladin are out and there are no Shaman/Shugenja/Sohei classes to replace them with yet, again I'm convinced that a cut-and-paste job wont cut it here. In the future additional material of these classes in books will just be wasted space to our group. E) The setting already doesnt include haflings at all or elves and dwarves in any large numbers, atleast where the games are typically set. Tieflings being very abrahamic in influence also have no place in it. Interestingly enough though Dragonborn already match up with a race we created so a quick name swap is all it will take to make them work. The Eladrin we can add because they match the setting pretty well and having them native to another plane makes it easier to justify them just showing up but beyond that most of the material in alot of the books will be a waste of space for us since the primary races for us have been Humans, Elan, Umbrians (type of human undead), Kobolds, Dromites, Goliaths, Glaan (will become dragonborn), Thre-Kreen and Hobgoblins (Modified). So what kinds of similar issues do you other DMs face?
magicchupacabra 02-14-08, 12:15 AM	I'm facing no challenges with 4e and I run an eberron game. I can see my game slowly evolving into a 3.75ish hybrid, but I doubt it'd be true 4.0 or true 3.5 anymore. So I say do as I do. Take from the best of both sides, tinker with them to get them to work together, then move on with your game.
Drackthor 02-14-08, 12:26 AM	Man. It sure does suck that WoTC will be sending Agents to your home with Glocks who will be forcing you to play 4E or die.
PenderGrass 02-14-08, 12:37 AM	Man. It sure does suck that WoTC will be sending Agents to your home with Glocks who will be forcing you to play 4E or die. I love being able to repel intruders with my axe, machete, knives and other weaponry. Let the fun begin! :dragon: *****
Drackthor 02-14-08, 12:52 AM	I love being able to repel intruders with my axe, machete, knives and other weaponry. Let the fun begin! :dragon: ***** I'll be honest, I'm betting on the Agent with a Glock. :P
Exposed_Wires 02-14-08, 01:00 AM	I've got enough land mines and piano wire set up at my house to stop solid snake. I haven't been able to get my newspaper in months.
OneWinged4ngel 02-14-08, 01:57 AM	I'm facing no challenges with 4e and I run an eberron game. I run Eberron and I have plenty of problems with 4e, and doubt that I'll be able to run it without extensive houseruling until well after 4e's release, if at all.
navar100 02-14-08, 02:09 AM	Is there a reason why you can't just continue your 3E game normally once 4E hits the stores?
Metafictional 02-14-08, 03:53 AM	Sadly, yes, all of my players are 4E Zombies going "newww....shiny...". Let's face it, most of us thought it was a good idea to upgrade from 2E to 3E. And then we were all swayed by the "obvious" upgrades from 3E to "3.5". Even if we ourselves have finally become resistant to the clarion call of "new edition" and grumble about paying for the same old books all over again ("now with 20% new content!"), not all of our players/friends/fellow gamers have immunity to the WotC-virus (more insidious than the T-virus, more powerful than the G-virus). So by hook or by crook, most of us will be updating eventually. Since I have my own unique 3.5-ish setting, I also have mixed feelings about 4E...but I know as soon as people buy all the books, my reasons for not wanting to switch will be written off as pure curmudgeon-ism (if that's a word). The difference? I'm not going to be the one trying to run the new game. If they want me to play 4E, they can let ME play for once! (My main beef with 4E is it means I'll never have a chance to play any of the neat character classes that have come out in the past two years. /cry).
Wheldrake 02-14-08, 04:42 AM	Is there a reason why you can't just continue your 3E game normally once 4E hits the stores? I second this! Why bother transforming every aspect of your campaign world to DD4 if everything is going fine and well in your current DD3.5 incarnation? Also, what prevents you from keeping the psionic rules from DD3.5 even if you do decide to migrate the characters to DD4? Especially if the psionics in question are reserved to the ruling hierarchy of the government? Use common sense: the games you play are *your* games and you will play be the rules you decide to use. I remain unconvinced that DD4 has anything useful to bring to the gaming table, but hey, let's keep an open mind and wait to judge the proof of the pudding. Cheers, --- Wheldrake
11d7 02-14-08, 09:04 AM	Is there a reason why you can't just continue your 3E game normally once 4E hits the stores? Do you really think if it was that easy I would be posting here? Seriously these boards are getting less useful each day... Even if we ourselves have finally become resistant to the clarion call of "new edition" and grumble about paying for the same old books all over again, not all of our players/friends/fellow gamers have immunity to the WotC-virus. This is exactly the issue. My players universally want a 4th edition campaign and want it set in our setting no matter how difficult it may be but as DM I am not willing to take the responsability of trying to create dozens of balanced ad hoc patches.
drake_vampiel_d 02-14-08, 09:31 AM	Who else here other than me will not be able to keep our homebrew setting running in 4th edition at least at first or at all? I would really like to hear why. I didnt put this in the 4th edition section because there I know it would turn into a flame war, its not as likely to here. Personally the problems with converting my campaign setting into 4th edition are: A) The most important nation to the campaign setting is a Psiocracy, its hard to run such a place without any Psions or Psychic Warriors to make up the ruleing class with. We know that Wizard powers will be nothing like a Psions so a cut-and-paste job on names and a few abilities isnt viable. B) The second most important nation to the campaign setting is a Necrocracy, its hard to run such a place without any Necromancers. Like Psionics, the Shadow power sourse will not be released right away though I might expect it sooner. C) Wizards in our setting have generally been Conjuration (Summoning), Necromancy and Transmutation and building magitech and construct focused, all of these more or less confirmed missing from the new Wizards abilties in any ammount that makes them a viable concept if at all. D) The setting doesnt include western style religon so clerics and paladin are out and there are no Shaman/Shugenja/Sohei classes to replace them with yet, again I'm convinced that a cut-and-paste job wont cut it here. In the future additional material of these classes in books will just be wasted space to our group. E) The setting already doesnt include haflings at all or elves and dwarves in any large numbers, atleast where the games are typically set. Tieflings being very abrahamic in influence also have no place in it. Interestingly enough though Dragonborn already match up with a race we created so a quick name swap is all it will take to make them work. The Eladrin we can add because they match the setting pretty well and having them native to another plane makes it easier to justify them just showing up but beyond that most of the material in alot of the books will be a waste of space for us since the primary races for us have been Humans, Elan, Umbrians (type of human undead), Kobolds, Dromites, Goliaths, Glaan (will become dragonborn), Thre-Kreen and Hobgoblins (Modified). So what kinds of similar issues do you other DMs face? I'm sorry to hear about your setting beign destroyed by 4th edition, personally mine will not be because I'm not getting 4th Ed. I see 4th ed as a waiste of my money and a horrid scam to get more money out of us.
drake_vampiel_d 02-14-08, 09:34 AM	Man. It sure does suck that WoTC will be sending Agents to your home with Glocks who will be forcing you to play 4E or die. THey may not be sending people in with glocks but by not putting out any more 3.5 stuff they are going to force the people who lack in 3.5 and 3rd stuff to run out of material.
Fuinrauku 02-14-08, 09:39 AM	I may be wrong about this and just say so and I'll shut up but I heard on a line that 4E is run on a LAN between people.. or at the very least use a computer... and little resources in the computer, and dice rolls in the computer etc... Now I say to you... where's the fun?... I used to love the "you see this scroll" and toss a half ripped paper to someone with "ARGGHH the monsters!... Love Bill" on it... and this seems very much like another game for your PC which gives no "fun" on messing with the rules *send in Jork the greatest Head-Thrower in the land* ^_^ I rest my case... or at least the remnants which the dog brought back up :P Fuinrauku
dulsi 02-14-08, 09:53 AM	Seriously these boards are getting less useful each day... So what are you looking for a response? Yes fitting some campaigns into the new system will be difficult until stats for X, Y, and Z are released. The typical new edition solution is to have some cataclysmic event. Perhaps have 3.5 psionics initially for those who want it only to remake the characters after psionics are released with some world altering event making the change. For necromancers just wizards for now or create a new class. I never purchased 3.5 books and it hasn't prevented me from playing. My group has never liked psionics. Our classes and races were mainly the core so changing to 4 isn't a big deal. When 3 was released, my first character was a barbarian/sorcerer who had some new feats I created because I wanted the rage and magic to be drawing from the same power source. So I created a feat to allow her to "rage" but instead of increasing strength and con, it would boost her charisma. Similarly I had a feat to convert spell levels into rage. My next character was a fairly standard cleric (new god but no new feats or anything). Next came my dwarf druid who used feats to get vermin instead of animals. Creating new stuff is part of the fun for me.
Soichiro Arima 02-14-08, 10:02 AM	So what are you looking for a response? Way to read, no read. The OP spesificly stated they were posting because they wanted to hear about other people's similar situations, not ask for help.
Evil DM Mk3 02-14-08, 10:16 AM	Yes, let us all curse WotC's cruel decision not to use their ability to publish all the material they covered in third edition all at once. Putting asside my irritation at all 4th edition is evil threads (3.5 NEEDS the fix) I do have a possible solution for you 11d7. Do you have a big ocean on your world? Your points, in order: 1+2: Move future games, for the time being, to an island chain deep in the ocean. Let the Players play at being pirates or similar for a while. This will give you more time to update your material and possibly open up your setting a little more. 3: Different culture so your wizards do not need to be surrogate artificers. 4: Try a cut an paste, with a little inteliigance, creativity and prehaps the odd house rule it ought to work. And to be honest if you don't have clerics/paladins you where throwing a way a lot of money anyway every time you bought a new book as they are CORE. 5: See 1+2. Although how Eladrin (the magicy half of elves) fit and elves (the natury half of elves) don't is a bit beyond me. With all this stuff cut out of your game I am not suprised you will have problems. If the above advice sounds sarcastic or bitter I didn't mean it to and am trying to help. At the same time most DnD books are also mostly useless to this setting as it leans very heavily indeed on non-core material and as such expecting an easy conversion is highly nieave. And simply saying 4th edition is not needed at all is blinkered.
dulsi 02-14-08, 10:18 AM	Way to read, no read. The OP spesificly stated they were posting because they wanted to hear about other people's similar situations, not ask for help. I saw that but was confused by his response of "Seriously these boards are getting less useful each day...". I suppose if he is looking to commisurate with others the board has been rather useless. I guess I just don't consider that a useful thing to do. Besides this is under the forum "D&D Rules, Campaign, and Character Advice > What's a DM to Do?" not bemone existance forum. :)
kelcimer 02-14-08, 10:32 AM	THey may not be sending people in with glocks but by not putting out any more 3.5 stuff they are going to force the people who lack in 3.5 and 3rd stuff to run out of material. Funny. One of the reasons why I don't get into other systems is that I don't feel like I've made full use out of DnD yet. That there's lots of stuff I haven't played with yet. There are so very many prestige classes and feats and possible character class combinations. Most of the time I don't feel I need to go outside of the core books to get what I want an NPC to be.
Bergtann 02-14-08, 10:36 AM	Armageddon, or something less Abrahamic, like Ragnarok? Seriously, something out of Elder Evils, or equally abominable might come along. How about running an "end of the world" game? Rivers boil, mountains fall, worlds crash. And out of the ashes, you can play 4th ed in the world that arises from the ruins.
Dunsel 02-14-08, 10:42 AM	Do you really think if it was that easy I would be posting here? Seriously these boards are getting less useful each day... Not the proper language for someone asking for help. Some of us played D&D for years w/o anything like this board. So be thankful. This is exactly the issue. My players universally want a 4th edition campaign and want it set in our setting no matter how difficult it may be but as DM I am not willing to take the responsability of trying to create dozens of balanced ad hoc patches. Your players are not in charge...or are they? If you don't want to run a 4th ed. game piecemeal, then don't. Your players will have to wait. Run the 3x game until its obvious conclusion (tpk, 20th level,etc.) and then start up 4th.
lastknightleft 02-14-08, 10:53 AM	nevermind
Rhojin 02-14-08, 11:16 AM	Who else here other than me will not be able to keep our homebrew setting running in 4th edition at least at first or at all? I would really like to hear why. I didnt put this in the 4th edition section because there I know it would turn into a flame war, its not as likely to here. Personally the problems with converting my campaign setting into 4th edition are: A) The most important nation to the campaign setting is a Psiocracy, its hard to run such a place without any Psions or Psychic Warriors to make up the ruleing class with. We know that Wizard powers will be nothing like a Psions so a cut-and-paste job on names and a few abilities isnt viable. B) The second most important nation to the campaign setting is a Necrocracy, its hard to run such a place without any Necromancers. Like Psionics, the Shadow power sourse will not be released right away though I might expect it sooner. C) Wizards in our setting have generally been Conjuration (Summoning), Necromancy and Transmutation and building magitech and construct focused, all of these more or less confirmed missing from the new Wizards abilties in any ammount that makes them a viable concept if at all. D) The setting doesnt include western style religon so clerics and paladin are out and there are no Shaman/Shugenja/Sohei classes to replace them with yet, again I'm convinced that a cut-and-paste job wont cut it here. In the future additional material of these classes in books will just be wasted space to our group. E) The setting already doesnt include haflings at all or elves and dwarves in any large numbers, atleast where the games are typically set. Tieflings being very abrahamic in influence also have no place in it. Interestingly enough though Dragonborn already match up with a race we created so a quick name swap is all it will take to make them work. The Eladrin we can add because they match the setting pretty well and having them native to another plane makes it easier to justify them just showing up but beyond that most of the material in alot of the books will be a waste of space for us since the primary races for us have been Humans, Elan, Umbrians (type of human undead), Kobolds, Dromites, Goliaths, Glaan (will become dragonborn), Thre-Kreen and Hobgoblins (Modified). So what kinds of similar issues do you other DMs face? Well from what the group has agreed on, is that if and when we grab the 4E books it will be a new campaign, the current campaign will stay in 3.0/3.5 land where the design of the world still works. I've got enough land mines and piano wire set up at my house to stop solid snake. I haven't been able to get my newspaper in months. Nothing can stop Solid Snake, Sam Fisher maybe but not Snake. Only reason he isn't after you is because he is too busy with SSBB right now. Only way to stop snake is with a Kenyan Mangrove Crab :D. http://youtube.com/watch?v=8mHKHKR8x6A
TwiddleStootch 02-14-08, 11:52 AM	The main reason I don't like 4th edition so far, aside from simply not liking the video-game like direction, but that is a different post, is because of my complex homebrewed campaign. Because of the setting I have created, it is unlikely my group will be changing any time soon. My players feel the same way. There are many things in my world which are not going to be in core 4th edition: 1) Gnomes. They are a major race and I have put a distinct spin on them, meaning I can't just replace them with humans, or elves or halflings or something. 2) Druids play an important role in many parts of the world, and I do not want to have to have clerics who worship nature. Doesn't work with my cleric flavor. 3) No bards in 4th edition. Bards are not a huge part of the world, but I have created a prominent prestige class for them and they are important in many cultures. Thus far, it seems I would have to do one of two things to convert: Change the world massively, or create my own 4th edition versions of a ton of stuff. Neither sound like much fun.
PenderGrass 02-14-08, 01:39 PM	I'll be honest, I'm betting on the Agent with a Glock. :P A rifle can definitely out-range a handgun. Plus, with the proper scope, I could easily see them long before they even know what street I am on. I just prefer the hand-to-hand type weaponry as it is priceless seeing the look on someone's face when they get an axe in their head as they walk around the corner and then some madman, totally naked, plunges a machete betwixt their ribs. Good times... good times.... :dragon: *****
CCS 02-14-08, 02:14 PM	THey may not be sending people in with glocks but by not putting out any more 3.5 stuff they are going to force the people who lack in 3.5 and 3rd stuff to run out of material. Really? The current generations imaginations are that finite? And given the sheer quantity of 3.x stuff produced (by WotC or 3rd parties)coupled with the internet....
Zombie_Babies 02-14-08, 02:19 PM	THey may not be sending people in with glocks but by not putting out any more 3.5 stuff they are going to force the people who lack in 3.5 and 3rd stuff to run out of material. One idea. Stop relying on pre-generated adventures and create your own. This will change the amount of material from a finite number to infinite possibilities. People still play 1e and 2e, you know. I didn't think Wizards would go for the Glock. I see them as more of a Berretta 92 style company. Hmm.
Drackthor 02-14-08, 02:28 PM	Way to read, no read. The OP spesificly stated they were posting because they wanted to hear about other people's similar situations, not ask for help. Way to be a jerk AND a hypocrite at the same time. He asked what the OP wanted as a response, not what help she wanted.
Drackthor 02-14-08, 02:30 PM	A rifle can definitely out-range a handgun. Plus, with the proper scope, I could easily see them long before they even know what street I am on. I just prefer the hand-to-hand type weaponry as it is priceless seeing the look on someone's face when they get an axe in their head as they walk around the corner and then some madman, totally naked, plunges a machete betwixt their ribs. Good times... good times.... :dragon: ***** I never said a Rifle would be out-ranged by a Handgun. You only said you'd be using close-range weapons for the fight, you e-Cheater, you! :tongue:
Tequila_Sunrise 02-14-08, 03:16 PM	If your players are the ones who want to switch to 4e, why not take a hiatus from your homebrew when it comes out? Tell them that one of them can (and will) DM a 4e game while you either mod the rules to mesh with your homebrew or wait for the necessary supplements to come out. After that, go back to your homebrew.
Mistress_Alexis 02-14-08, 04:13 PM	Aww hun! Dont worry 11d7, I'll help you convert things. I already have a great idea for how to rework some of the stuff from reading Tome of Magic, I just need to wait and see a 4th edition rulebook.
Josheva 02-14-08, 04:25 PM	I've got enough land mines and piano wire set up at my house to stop solid snake. Then they'll hire Chuck Norris. These guys mean business! Your only chance is to raise Mr.Rogers from the dead and convince him to defend you.
Evil DM Mk3 02-14-08, 04:49 PM	Then they'll hire Chuck Norris. These guys mean business! Your only chance is to raise Mr.Rogers from the dead and convince him to defend you. Quick Exposed_Wires, there is only one living man who can defend you against Chuck. Only one man who knows enough about traps and trickery. Get onto Havlock Vetinari, now!
Exposed_Wires 02-14-08, 07:19 PM	You're all assuming that Chuck Norris can be bought.
necrom99 02-14-08, 07:34 PM	I'm sorry to hear about your setting beign destroyed by 4th edition, personally mine will not be because I'm not getting 4th Ed. I see 4th ed as a waiste of my money and a horrid scam to get more money out of us. I have almost all the sourcebooks for 3.5 AND i'm using the ols original campaign settign of Mystara, i've already added plenty of AD-Hoc patches.... tell your players if they wish you to do all this work, then they drop the coin for you to have all the source material....
magicchupacabra 02-15-08, 01:56 AM	I run Eberron and I have plenty of problems with 4e, and doubt that I'll be able to run it without extensive houseruling until well after 4e's release, if at all. Hence why I said I'm most likely going to end up with a hybrid game going on. Why deal with the lost system components when you can just splice in the new ones that you need? After all, there will be an SRD. This means it can be converted from 4.0 to 3.5 despite what WoTC states. Remember, these boards have members on it that know the systems better than the designers likely do. And one thing they have going for them that the designers do not is the challenge and love of twisting, modifying and bending the game into all kinds of fun directions. Something the designers try not to do out of the sake of balance. I'm very positive with these minds and the very clearly bored nature and mind exercises they like to do that everything in 4e will be reversed engineered to work in 3.5. Now if anyone actually uses it or not....that is a different story.
kelvinaw273 02-15-08, 03:42 AM	Well myself, I will go to 4.0 when it starts getting the breadth and scope of current 3.5. Frankly from what some of the 4.0 advocates have been saying I'm not enthused. No Bards? Because they don't fit in a standard 4-character party? How many times do real groups have one DM and four players? Some have up to ten, others struggle with just two! The bard is the best 5th wheel class around ... Grrr ... their logic is getting silly. So for the time being, if players ask me why my campaign is not going to be 4.0, they will receive the answer: "If you want to run a 4.0 game, great. I'll switch when I feel comfortable doing so and feel that my current campaign can make the change with the minimum of work from me. If you feel I'm being lazy, YOU be DM for a while."
Draco_Whitewind 02-15-08, 04:21 AM	Who else here other than me will not be able to keep our homebrew setting running in 4th edition at least at first or at all? I would really like to hear why. I didnt put this in the 4th edition section because there I know it would turn into a flame war, its not as likely to here. Personally the problems with converting my campaign setting into 4th edition are: A) The most important nation to the campaign setting is a Psiocracy, its hard to run such a place without any Psions or Psychic Warriors to make up the ruleing class with. We know that Wizard powers will be nothing like a Psions so a cut-and-paste job on names and a few abilities isnt viable. B) The second most important nation to the campaign setting is a Necrocracy, its hard to run such a place without any Necromancers. Like Psionics, the Shadow power sourse will not be released right away though I might expect it sooner. C) Wizards in our setting have generally been Conjuration (Summoning), Necromancy and Transmutation and building magitech and construct focused, all of these more or less confirmed missing from the new Wizards abilties in any ammount that makes them a viable concept if at all. D) The setting doesnt include western style religon so clerics and paladin are out and there are no Shaman/Shugenja/Sohei classes to replace them with yet, again I'm convinced that a cut-and-paste job wont cut it here. In the future additional material of these classes in books will just be wasted space to our group. E) The setting already doesnt include haflings at all or elves and dwarves in any large numbers, atleast where the games are typically set. Tieflings being very abrahamic in influence also have no place in it. Interestingly enough though Dragonborn already match up with a race we created so a quick name swap is all it will take to make them work. The Eladrin we can add because they match the setting pretty well and having them native to another plane makes it easier to justify them just showing up but beyond that most of the material in alot of the books will be a waste of space for us since the primary races for us have been Humans, Elan, Umbrians (type of human undead), Kobolds, Dromites, Goliaths, Glaan (will become dragonborn), Thre-Kreen and Hobgoblins (Modified). So what kinds of similar issues do you other DMs face? I have a simple solution for you. How about don't convert it, and play 3.0/3.5/3.xever? Seriously. Your books will NOT be taken away, you won't run the risk of losing players, nor will the well of players dry up magically. Because when people want to play an RPG, they'd settle for 1st edition if they had to. (Which was atrocious compared to 3.0 or 3.5) Play what you like, how you like it. Unless you plan to try and sell the campaign setting in book form, it really doesn't need an update unless you're seriously committed to you and all your players just jumping ship for a new edition.
ChutneyDan 02-15-08, 07:54 AM	I've got enough land mines and piano wire set up at my house to stop Solid Snake. Heh! I'm sure 4.0 will be adaptable to fit pretty much any campaign.
kelvinaw273 02-15-08, 09:56 AM	Heh! I'm sure 4.0 will be adaptable to fit pretty much any campaign. Eventually. By which point 4.5 will roll out. Then 5.0 ....
DoctorRomulus 02-15-08, 10:09 AM	Well myself, I will go to 4.0 when it starts getting the breadth and scope of current 3.5..... And when it gets to that point they'll announce the release of 5e. I for one don't plan on EVER buying 4e, if I can't find players for 3.x than I'll just be done with it and move on to another games system of which there are plenty. Or write up a complete set of home brew rules. It's cheaper, more fun and easier to having to learn a whole new system anyway.
lastknightleft 02-15-08, 10:50 AM	And when it gets to that point they'll announce the release of 5e. I for one don't plan on EVER buying 4e, if I can't find players for 3.x than I'll just be done with it and move on to another games system of which there are plenty. Or write up a complete set of home brew rules. It's cheaper, more fun and easier to having to learn a whole new system anyway. You mean when you create your own game it'll be so intuitive that the players who join will instantly understand every bit of it and not have to learn a new system? Wow, when you make it, let me have a copy cause I need a game like that. Because really the system is the same just with different rules so what's the difference in going 4th ed then creating so many houserules your players have to study a novel at the beginning of play?
new_fashion_guy 02-15-08, 11:04 AM	THey may not be sending people in with glocks but by not putting out any more 3.5 stuff they are going to force the people who lack in 3.5 and 3rd stuff to run out of material. I ran a DC Heroes game last year, and that's been out of print since the mid 90's. If you still have the rulebooks and an imagination, you never have to run out of material.
DoctorRomulus 02-15-08, 11:33 AM	You mean when you create your own game it'll be so intuitive that the players who join will instantly understand every bit of it and not have to learn a new system? Wow, when you make it, let me have a copy cause I need a game like that. Yes it will. I've run games using the Fuzion system that players understood maybe not instantly but within a few minutes. How hard is it to understand, "roll X number less or more to succeed". I've run games of all types for years and it doesn't take that much effort. At least for some of us. Not everyone requires tons of books to run an RPG, I run D&D 1, 2 and 3.X and 3.X was harder to learn due to bad editing and rules that made you go around the block 3x, rolling to succeed at each corner to get to the corner store. But with a bit of streamlining it worked just fine. 4e is just WoTC getting us to buy the same thing ALL over again. And the clincher is that according to an article on the website last fall, one won't be able to convert 3.X stuff over to 4e so even those of us who used 1, 2nd stuff in 3.X won't be able to. Those of us who need it that is.
Exposed_Wires 02-15-08, 05:05 PM	And when it gets to that point they'll announce the release of 5e. I for one don't plan on EVER buying 4e, if I can't find players for 3.x than I'll just be done with it and move on to another games system of which there are plenty. Or write up a complete set of home brew rules. It's cheaper, more fun and easier to having to learn a whole new system anyway. Cause moving on to another game system and paying for those books is nothing like upgrading to a new edition. I think people are taking the wrong attitude towards this whole thing. MTG puts out 4 new sets a year. My friends and I are still playing ravnica. We all skipped mirrodin and nothing bad happened. We don't have to buy the new sets unless we feel like playing in tourneys; which we don't because we're casual gamers. You buy 4e when you have the money and feel like seeing some new stuff. Or don't. You don't need to take offense to them trying to streamline things and update the game system (even if you think they're failing at improving it). Besides, you've already bought the books. They can't sell them to you again, so they have to offer some new product or perish as a company.
twad 02-15-08, 09:49 PM	it wont be a problem for me; i dont stat-out the nations (way too long); i just make their societies, plot hooks, ressources, moral tendencies, typical soldier equipement, politics and all that.. So basically any game system could work with it.
Cold Napalm 02-15-08, 10:01 PM	You know, when 3.0 first came out, I looked at it, thought it was crap and didn't play it. When the splat books came out to actually make the system worth playing, I picked it up. 3.5 REALLY ****** me off. They JUST changed barely enough for the two to be no longer compatible. And so I did not upgrade...until enough splat books came out to make the system interesting again. From what I see of 4th ed, I doubt I will play it much at first. I think after a couple of splat books, I might get into...but if the spell casters can't do conjuration, necro, trans and all that fun stuff, count me out for good. I'm okay with it being in splat books, but if they aren't gonna do it at all, them 3.x is where I will stay where casters are actually still interesting to play. If I wanted to just roll dice and see how much damage I could do with a spell, I'd play a computer game. Hell even computer games has evolved beyond just damage too...why does 4th ed seem hell bent on returning to it? Because it's easy? Well we aren't paying them our money for it to be easy for them now are we.
High Octane 02-15-08, 10:21 PM	Who else here other than me will not be able to keep our homebrew setting running in 4th edition at least at first or at all? I would really like to hear why. I didnt put this in the 4th edition section because there I know it would turn into a flame war, its not as likely to here. Personally the problems with converting my campaign setting into 4th edition are: A) The most important nation to the campaign setting is a Psiocracy, its hard to run such a place without any Psions or Psychic Warriors to make up the ruleing class with. We know that Wizard powers will be nothing like a Psions so a cut-and-paste job on names and a few abilities isnt viable. This is a hard one and I guess until they come out with 4e psionics you will have to eyeball it. Inform your players they will be seeing psionic people but wont be able to battle them and work your campaign around the necessary mechanics until 4e psionics come out. B) The second most important nation to the campaign setting is a Necrocracy, its hard to run such a place without any Necromancers. Like Psionics, the Shadow power sourse will not be released right away though I might expect it sooner. Huh? Why wouldn't you be able to have necromancers? Even without classes titled "Necromancers" you still could easily just have wizards who stuff their spellbooks with necromancy spells and learn a lot about necromancy. Just cause it doesn't bear the technical title necromancer doesnt mean it doesn't work. Just because they won't have a samurai base class at first does NOT mean that you can't just make some fighters with the title of samurai. Same deal here. C) Wizards in our setting have generally been Conjuration (Summoning), Necromancy and Transmutation and building magitech and construct focused, all of these more or less confirmed missing from the new Wizards abilties in any ammount that makes them a viable concept if at all. I don't understand what you are saying exactly, you are saying that 4e mechanics won't allow FF6 style machinery to be built? D) The setting doesnt include western style religon so clerics and paladin are out and there are no Shaman/Shugenja/Sohei classes to replace them with yet, again I'm convinced that a cut-and-paste job wont cut it here. In the future additional material of these classes in books will just be wasted space to our group. Shaman = cleric or Shaman = druid. Mix in flavor and voila. E) The setting already doesnt include haflings at all or elves and dwarves in any large numbers, atleast where the games are typically set. Tieflings being very abrahamic in influence also have no place in it. Interestingly enough though Dragonborn already match up with a race we created so a quick name swap is all it will take to make them work. The Eladrin we can add because they match the setting pretty well and having them native to another plane makes it easier to justify them just showing up but beyond that most of the material in alot of the books will be a waste of space for us since the primary races for us have been Humans, Elan, Umbrians (type of human undead), Kobolds, Dromites, Goliaths, Glaan (will become dragonborn), Thre-Kreen and Hobgoblins (Modified). Didn't you say gnomes had a big part in your game? Just use the mechanics of a halfling and call it a gnome since you aren't using it anyway.
Andrew 02-15-08, 11:51 PM	The most seamless way I think you could do the turbulence of new rules and material is to have an in-game period of turbulence - your psions and necromancers either start functioning as Wizards or not at all, nature abandons the druids, etc. What you need to decide is if you are willing to let your own campaign setting be damaged and distorted by accommodating a new edition. You have obviously put a lot of time and effort into creating a world that you like, and while the story created by you and your players is the work of you all, the setting is still your baby and you get to make the call there. It would be perfectly reasonable if you waited for the edition to mature before even thinking about converting your setting.
Asmodeur 02-16-08, 03:47 AM	The main reason I don't like 4th edition so far, aside from simply not liking the video-game like direction, but that is a different post, is because of my complex homebrewed campaign. Because of the setting I have created, it is unlikely my group will be changing any time soon. My players feel the same way. There are many things in my world which are not going to be in core 4th edition: 1) Gnomes. They are a major race and I have put a distinct spin on them, meaning I can't just replace them with humans, or elves or halflings or something. 2) Druids play an important role in many parts of the world, and I do not want to have to have clerics who worship nature. Doesn't work with my cleric flavor. 3) No bards in 4th edition. Bards are not a huge part of the world, but I have created a prominent prestige class for them and they are important in many cultures. Thus far, it seems I would have to do one of two things to convert: Change the world massively, or create my own 4th edition versions of a ton of stuff. Neither sound like much fun. First of all, gnomes will be in the MM, and thus playable as a PC race. If you need bards and druids, just buy the advanced player's guide (name not decided yet) from Necromancers, which will most likely come out as soon as third party publishers are allowed to publish. While details are still unknown, we know that the designer has been told to include all "classic" classes not present in the PHB. So, do you have any other excuses?
Evil DM Mk3 02-16-08, 05:57 AM	If you need bards and druids, just buy the advanced player's guide (name not decided yet) from Necromancers, which will most likely come out as soon as third party publishers are allowed to publish. While details are still unknown, we know that the designer has been told to include all "classic" classes not present in the PHB. Or you could wait for Wizards to do them, as they say they fully intend to and are allready working on.
Asmodeur 02-16-08, 07:07 AM	Or you could wait for Wizards to do them, as they say they fully intend to and are allready working on. Of course, my comment was based on the guy I quoted wanting to start as soon as possible.
kelvinaw273 02-16-08, 07:45 AM	I'd wait two or three years in case they do a 4.5 anyway ...;)
11d7 02-16-08, 09:45 AM	Huh? Why wouldn't you be able to have necromancers? Even without classes titled "Necromancers" you still could easily just have wizards who stuff their spellbooks with necromancy spells and learn a lot about necromancy. Just cause it doesn't bear the technical title necromancer doesnt mean it doesn't work. Just because they won't have a samurai base class at first does NOT mean that you can't just make some fighters with the title of samurai. Same deal here. Its already been stated as of W&M necromancy will almost if not entirly be removed from Wizards because contrast between Arcane and Shadow. I don't understand what you are saying exactly, you are saying that 4e mechanics won't allow FF6 style machinery to be built? The mechanics have been said as of W&M to be moving very far away from supporting magitech. Shaman = cleric or Shaman = druid. Mix in flavor and voila. Its remains to be seen, for all I know it cause work or the fluff could be hardwired into their ability mechanics. Didn't you say gnomes had a big part in your game? Just use the mechanics of a halfling and call it a gnome since you aren't using it anyway. I didnt actually say anything about gnomes, I didnt even use them in 3.5 for anything.
Mistress_Alexis 02-16-08, 09:54 AM	*whine*whine*whine* I'm a big nelly bottom who can't make my players listen. Living with 11d7 (I actually just stole the computer from them as they jumped into the shower) I can tell you the problem is that he may be the designated DM for the next campaign but they are by no means incharge of the group. In committee we came the agreement we would be keeping our campaign setting as it was, then 11d7 was selected to DM because they have not DMed for the longest time out of all of us. Its not their place to go ageints what the group wants because everyone takes a turn DMing under these circumstances and they have avoided doing it the longest out of all of us.
starkreality 02-16-08, 01:44 PM	Really? The current generations imaginations are that finite? And given the sheer quantity of 3.x stuff produced (by WotC or 3rd parties)coupled with the internet.... You know, one of the best resources I've found for my 3.x games is old material. I've done a lot of work on old modules and things, making them work. And its great fun to pull out a module thats older than I am, and throw my players into it! Its rewarding, knowing I had to work so hard to make it run smoothly, and even more rewarding when my players have the revelation near the end, "I played this once!" I played The Sinister Secret of Saltmarsh, but it didnt go well. I've done the House on Gryphon Hill, and some Maztica stuff too, along with the two Alice in Wonderland modules... It's great fun. And the best part, above all? I've never had to pay more than $4.95 for a .pdf of an old module!
Dan Hemmens 02-16-08, 02:25 PM	One idea. Stop relying on pre-generated adventures and create your own. This will change the amount of material from a finite number to infinite possibilities. People still play 1e and 2e, you know. 1e and 2e, and a whole *raft* of other games published over the last 30 years, some of which never had a single supplement published. I might be less bitter about this if I hadn't just started playing a Dark Heresy game...
Dan Hemmens 02-16-08, 02:30 PM	The mechanics have been said as of W&M to be moving very far away from supporting magitech. Hang on, I must have missed something. Since when did the system ever *support* magitech?
slaveboy 02-16-08, 05:13 PM	Hang on, I must have missed something. Since when did the system ever *support* magitech? The way Wonderous Item creation rules worked you could in theory create all kinds of technology using the thousands of differnt spells to justify differnt technological effects.
Dan Hemmens 02-16-08, 05:37 PM	The way Wonderous Item creation rules worked you could in theory create all kinds of technology using the thousands of differnt spells to justify differnt technological effects. But do you *really* need game rules for this kind of thing? In fact, don't game rules for it kind of mess things up. You start wondering things like "hang on, how do the Wizards who build these airships pay the XP costs". There probably won't be any system support for gene splicing either, but I sincerely doubt that we've seen the last of the Owlbear.
Daergal_the_Black 02-16-08, 07:04 PM	Perhaps what you should do, if you don't want to hold out for psi rules and necromancy, is introduce a "Spellplague" like element into your game for a short while. Throw the game world into a bit of disarray, then have it settle back into patterns you like after the rules support comes for it. Or you could just keep things the way they are with some reflavoring. Let the undead creating spell-crafters be NPCs, sure, but almost any class can be "psionic" if you reflavor them. Even a 3.5 fighter with Power Attack can, instead of the normal flavor for that feat, claim to be focusing his mental energies to deliver a devastating attack. Just make psions wizards and reflavor their stuff for a while, and there's your psions.
TheEndIsNear 02-16-08, 09:12 PM	Man. It sure does suck that WoTC will be sending Agents to your home with Glocks who will be forcing you to play 4E or die. I got a 43 on my hide check, I lose 20 to hide wich all my 3.X stuff, so now a DC 23 spot check for them... since they have Wis 3 to beguin with, I'm safe... Also, I got a rigged d20, I'll hit them with my improvised weapon, but before they come, can you take improve Crit with an improvised weapon? those books might paper cut their eyes out:P I have no life.. D-End
Evil DM Mk3 02-16-08, 09:19 PM	I have no life.. Then you cannot die. The path to immortality is to be so uninteresting and dull that even the grim reaper ignores you.