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*Faint* [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Coyote Skyheart
02-23-05, 11:18 PM I could use some advice. Okay, I admit it this is the first time I'm running a 17th lvl module. One of the players is a good roleplayer and minmaxer, and he's going to be the party wizard.

:surrender

I'm sure there's ways for me to deal with this, its just a learning process. In the meantime I want to make sure they have fun.

Okay how do I challenge this?

Rod of absorption + wizard + initiate of the sevenfold viel + planetar form from polymorph object.

The rod of absorption means I can't dispel him! At least as long as he has the rod out. I was thinking 'maybe I could sunder it' but the initiate of sevenfold viel makes that kinda suicidal. Aiiieee.

Should I have my villain spellcaster memorize a few antimagic field spells? help?
Morbid Angel
02-23-05, 11:28 PM What module are you running? I'll asume that you must have made it yourself since you are looking for ideas.

First off what does he typically use as his primary method of taking down foes? If you can isolate what tactics he favors most, it easier to find an adversary to pit against him. Monks work rather well against spellcasters...perhaps take a stroll through the character optimization boards for a nice mage-killer build.

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=48573

You could even make the monk a sentient construct of some sort (ie: half-golem) making him immune to the wizards spells.
Lord Ian Stark
02-23-05, 11:59 PM Look at the Occult Slayer in the Complete Warrior book.
HamHam
02-24-05, 01:00 AM When you say "challenge", do you actually care if they have a chance of surviving?
PhaedrusXY
02-24-05, 01:30 AM The Rod of Absorbion only works on spells that target him specifically, right? So an area Greater Dispel, or Mordenkainen's Disjunction (if you're feeling nasty) could still take down his Polymorph spell.
Puskara
02-24-05, 02:33 AM How about a creature that can dispell as a supernatural ability? Or a creature with its own antimagic field?

Sounds like the PMAMT (so long ago, spelling is probably wrong) woudl be a good idea.

Puskara
Cold Napalm
02-24-05, 02:37 AM MDJ is just mean...and really has very few things to counteract it.

Also the dispelling screen spells work too...
Coyote Skyheart
02-24-05, 09:25 AM A golem could work, I could add that in.

Its the Thunder Below module offered online by Wizards.

Mordenkainen's disjunction isn't really available to me, unfortunately. An area greater dispell will only take out one spell each casting. Most wizards have a lot of spells on them, so thats a slow process.

What are the dispelling screens?

Yes I actually care if he survives. Challenges are fun. Its not like I'm going to call down a meteor from the sky to hit him on the head. :eek: :rolleyes:

I'll take a look at the mage slayer builds.
Phrennzy
02-24-05, 09:57 AM I am assuming that the wizard has enough HD to polymorph into a planetar, right? I don't have my book in front of me, and planetars are absent from the SRD. That's one thing to check.

Other than that I don't see you getting rid of his polymorph with Dispel Magic unless you can somehow fill his Rod of Absorption up. If the enemy is chock full o wizards, that may not be a problem.

It also seems that the Rod absorbs spells regardless of the wielders wishes. So filling it up faster than he can deplete it may not be a problem.

I'm not sure why the Initiate makes a sunder attempt suicidal...what about improved Sunder. That doesn't draw an attack of opportunity. And a Rod of Absorption would be a primo sunder target.
Trizzel
02-24-05, 11:42 AM How about maybe have random areas, with wild magic. That way magic is used it con be randomized. I use the 2e Encyclopedia Magica and use the Wand of Wonder tables for the random effect.

________________________________________ _

Tomorrow is Promised to No One
VanRiper
02-24-05, 11:46 AM I am assuming that the wizard has enough HD to polymorph into a planetar, right? I don't have my book in front of me, and planetars are absent from the SRD. That's one thing to check.

Planetar's are in the SRD under Angel. They have 14 HD.
Treetrip Danglefoot
02-24-05, 01:01 PM An anti magic field spell on a narrow hallway would work pretty well. Maybe with a hiding Choker or some sort of grappling creature. Something with Touch of Idiocy also gives him a run for his money.

I'm not sure what initiate of the Sevenfold Veil does, but I'm sure it can be overcome.
Coyote Skyheart
02-24-05, 01:38 PM Hmm...it says in the phb that antimagic fields can't effect the prismatic X type spells/abilities, so that doesn't work.

Initiate of the Sevenfold Viel is in the Complete Arcana book. Basically, what it allows you to do is take the various powers of the prismatic wall spell and use them in different ways. You can make one of the 'colors' a barrier around your person, so people suffer the effects if they enter melee with you...or make it an emanation effect...or traditional wall. That's a really generalized description.

So in the case of sunder, unless I do it with a long reach I would probably suffer the effects of a wall or two in the sunder attempt.

One thing I *did* find is that SR can overcome the prismatic powers, and that means yes golems will work. I thank you for that idea.
Cardinal Teplin
02-24-05, 02:08 PM Hmm...it says in the phb that antimagic fields can't effect the prismatic X type spells/abilities, so that doesn't work.

Um... no. What it says is that certain magical effects remain unaffected, as cited under each spell. It gives prismatic wall, prismatic sphere and wall of force as examples. Still blocks prismatic spray for example. I see no reason why antimagic field would not work against the initiate's veil powers, unless it specifically says they don't.

On that basis, one nice little combination is a spell caster with improved familiar, casting anti magic shell on his familiar rather than himself (using the share spells ability. Then fly in and beat him up. Even a flame mephit should be able to take out a 17th level wizard with no spells or magical effects.

At least that's what I did to the 17th level wizard in my game.

High level wizards are VERY powerful. But they aren't unstoppable, or invulnerable. Dragons, packs of vrocks, and high level blackguards with evasion and mettle are all dangerous to them, as are enclosed spaces and ambushes. If you get really desperate, pit them against an evil 17th level wizard, and see what they do to kill him...

My favourite wizard trap was a dummy trapdoor on the floor. It was rigged to a pressure plate that stopped the roof caving in. Quite safe - unless someone somehow got down the corridor without stepping on the trapdoor. As long as you aren't flying, you're fine....

The most obvious anti-wizard tactic is just to make sure the days of adventure are long. When he's reduced to using 7th or 6th level spells to deal with a problem, he's probably going to be less effectve than the rest of the party. Wizards really get unstoppable when they can rest for a day after 3 or 4 fights. Pop in a time limit, and the wizard won't seem so bad.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Coyote Skyheart 02-23-05, 11:18 PM	I could use some advice. Okay, I admit it this is the first time I'm running a 17th lvl module. One of the players is a good roleplayer and minmaxer, and he's going to be the party wizard. :surrender I'm sure there's ways for me to deal with this, its just a learning process. In the meantime I want to make sure they have fun. Okay how do I challenge this? Rod of absorption + wizard + initiate of the sevenfold viel + planetar form from polymorph object. The rod of absorption means I can't dispel him! At least as long as he has the rod out. I was thinking 'maybe I could sunder it' but the initiate of sevenfold viel makes that kinda suicidal. Aiiieee. Should I have my villain spellcaster memorize a few antimagic field spells? help?
Morbid Angel 02-23-05, 11:28 PM	What module are you running? I'll asume that you must have made it yourself since you are looking for ideas. First off what does he typically use as his primary method of taking down foes? If you can isolate what tactics he favors most, it easier to find an adversary to pit against him. Monks work rather well against spellcasters...perhaps take a stroll through the character optimization boards for a nice mage-killer build. http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=48573 You could even make the monk a sentient construct of some sort (ie: half-golem) making him immune to the wizards spells.
Lord Ian Stark 02-23-05, 11:59 PM	Look at the Occult Slayer in the Complete Warrior book.
HamHam 02-24-05, 01:00 AM	When you say "challenge", do you actually care if they have a chance of surviving?
PhaedrusXY 02-24-05, 01:30 AM	The Rod of Absorbion only works on spells that target him specifically, right? So an area Greater Dispel, or Mordenkainen's Disjunction (if you're feeling nasty) could still take down his Polymorph spell.
Puskara 02-24-05, 02:33 AM	How about a creature that can dispell as a supernatural ability? Or a creature with its own antimagic field? Sounds like the PMAMT (so long ago, spelling is probably wrong) woudl be a good idea. Puskara
Cold Napalm 02-24-05, 02:37 AM	MDJ is just mean...and really has very few things to counteract it. Also the dispelling screen spells work too...
Coyote Skyheart 02-24-05, 09:25 AM	A golem could work, I could add that in. Its the Thunder Below module offered online by Wizards. Mordenkainen's disjunction isn't really available to me, unfortunately. An area greater dispell will only take out one spell each casting. Most wizards have a lot of spells on them, so thats a slow process. What are the dispelling screens? Yes I actually care if he survives. Challenges are fun. Its not like I'm going to call down a meteor from the sky to hit him on the head. :eek: :rolleyes: I'll take a look at the mage slayer builds.
Phrennzy 02-24-05, 09:57 AM	I am assuming that the wizard has enough HD to polymorph into a planetar, right? I don't have my book in front of me, and planetars are absent from the SRD. That's one thing to check. Other than that I don't see you getting rid of his polymorph with Dispel Magic unless you can somehow fill his Rod of Absorption up. If the enemy is chock full o wizards, that may not be a problem. It also seems that the Rod absorbs spells regardless of the wielders wishes. So filling it up faster than he can deplete it may not be a problem. I'm not sure why the Initiate makes a sunder attempt suicidal...what about improved Sunder. That doesn't draw an attack of opportunity. And a Rod of Absorption would be a primo sunder target.
Trizzel 02-24-05, 11:42 AM	How about maybe have random areas, with wild magic. That way magic is used it con be randomized. I use the 2e Encyclopedia Magica and use the Wand of Wonder tables for the random effect. ________________________________________ _ Tomorrow is Promised to No One
VanRiper 02-24-05, 11:46 AM	I am assuming that the wizard has enough HD to polymorph into a planetar, right? I don't have my book in front of me, and planetars are absent from the SRD. That's one thing to check. Planetar's are in the SRD under Angel. They have 14 HD.
Treetrip Danglefoot 02-24-05, 01:01 PM	An anti magic field spell on a narrow hallway would work pretty well. Maybe with a hiding Choker or some sort of grappling creature. Something with Touch of Idiocy also gives him a run for his money. I'm not sure what initiate of the Sevenfold Veil does, but I'm sure it can be overcome.
Coyote Skyheart 02-24-05, 01:38 PM	Hmm...it says in the phb that antimagic fields can't effect the prismatic X type spells/abilities, so that doesn't work. Initiate of the Sevenfold Viel is in the Complete Arcana book. Basically, what it allows you to do is take the various powers of the prismatic wall spell and use them in different ways. You can make one of the 'colors' a barrier around your person, so people suffer the effects if they enter melee with you...or make it an emanation effect...or traditional wall. That's a really generalized description. So in the case of sunder, unless I do it with a long reach I would probably suffer the effects of a wall or two in the sunder attempt. One thing I did find is that SR can overcome the prismatic powers, and that means yes golems will work. I thank you for that idea.
Cardinal Teplin 02-24-05, 02:08 PM	Hmm...it says in the phb that antimagic fields can't effect the prismatic X type spells/abilities, so that doesn't work. Um... no. What it says is that certain magical effects remain unaffected, as cited under each spell. It gives prismatic wall, prismatic sphere and wall of force as examples. Still blocks prismatic spray for example. I see no reason why antimagic field would not work against the initiate's veil powers, unless it specifically says they don't. On that basis, one nice little combination is a spell caster with improved familiar, casting anti magic shell on his familiar rather than himself (using the share spells ability. Then fly in and beat him up. Even a flame mephit should be able to take out a 17th level wizard with no spells or magical effects. At least that's what I did to the 17th level wizard in my game. High level wizards are VERY powerful. But they aren't unstoppable, or invulnerable. Dragons, packs of vrocks, and high level blackguards with evasion and mettle are all dangerous to them, as are enclosed spaces and ambushes. If you get really desperate, pit them against an evil 17th level wizard, and see what they do to kill him... My favourite wizard trap was a dummy trapdoor on the floor. It was rigged to a pressure plate that stopped the roof caving in. Quite safe - unless someone somehow got down the corridor without stepping on the trapdoor. As long as you aren't flying, you're fine.... The most obvious anti-wizard tactic is just to make sure the days of adventure are long. When he's reduced to using 7th or 6th level spells to deal with a problem, he's probably going to be less effectve than the rest of the party. Wizards really get unstoppable when they can rest for a day after 3 or 4 fights. Pop in a time limit, and the wizard won't seem so bad.