#/Level of encounters in single adventure [Archive] - Wizards Community

#/Level of encounters in single adventure [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
weepingminotaur
09-15-06, 01:24 PM Hey all,

I'm a DM returning to the job after a year's vacation, and now that I'm about to resume playing D&D, I feel the need to brush up on areas of DMing where I'm weak. To put it simply, I've always had trouble determining how many encounters I should put into an adventure, and the spread of difficulty involved.

Using one or two published adventures as a guideline, I came up with an encounter number somewhere between 16 and 18, but this becomes problematic if I'm using the EL difficulty percentiles found in the DMG on page 49, table 3-2 (15% of 18 means 2.7 encounters should be very difficult, etc.). As well, I fail to see the point of devoting 5% of your adventure to encounters that are going to be overpowering -- what's the point of designing an encounter just so that the players can run away from it or get killed?

Things become even murkier when I try to reconcile the EL spread with the information about level advancement, which states that "13.33 encounters of an EL equal to the player characters' level allow them to gain a level" (DMG 41). How then do very difficult or easy encounters (i.e. encounters above or below the party’s average level) factor into level advancement? The 13.33 rule seems of little value to me when the general rule of structuring adventures calls for 50% of your encounters to not be equal to the average level of the party.

All this may seem like nitpicking, but I suppose I’m harping on these points because after years of thumbing my nose at DMG adventure guidelines and winging it, some issues have cropped up in my player group that seem to be related to my DMing style. So now I want to do things by the book. What do other DMs have to say about this? When you sit down to design an adventure, how do you decide the spread of difficulty in your encounters?

Cheers,

weepingminotaur
Feriin
09-15-06, 01:34 PM Those are just guidlines, for me though I pretty much just throw those out the window. My last session had everyone gaining enough exp to gain 2 levels each , with only 2 encounters.
razorboy
09-15-06, 01:41 PM I try to stick to DMG advice (within reason) and it works out something like this. Approximately 14 encounters are needed to level. An encounter is not necesserily combat but an event that gives XP to the players. I try to level my players once every two sessions, three sessions or more after level 10. So below level 10, it works out to 7 encounters per sessions, which considering how long combat can be, works out to two or three combat encounters per sessions. Any more combat than that, and the sessions devolves into hack'n'slash and my players get bored with that pretty easily. Of course if your players like combat more, run 3 to 4 combat encounters, and 3 to 4 non-combat encounters (like traps, roleplaying, hazards, etc) and it's still a good balance.
weepingminotaur
09-15-06, 01:51 PM Thanks for your feedback. Actually, this campaign is explicitly going to be more of the dungeon crawl variety, with emphasis on combat, because I don't have time right now to create elaborately detailed campaigns with intrigue, fleshed-out characters, and nuanced storytelling. Would like to in future, but for now, it's mostly going to be combat.

Razorboy, when you say approximately 14 encounters are needed to pass a level, what EL level are you talking about? Because, again, the DMG says 13.33 encounters with an EL equal to the average character level, but what about the other 50% of the encounters that are higher or lower?
John05
09-15-06, 02:28 PM I wish my group had more time for more encounters.
Three hours doesn't fit more than two encounters, I think. :(
Sildatorak
09-15-06, 07:06 PM what about the other 50% of the encounters that are higher or lower?
Consider that to just be a piece of advice. See what your group wants and tailor more to them rather than sticking to some by-the-book formula. My group, for example, prefers a few harder fights (maybe an EL 2 higher than the group's EPL) to more fights that are individually less challenging.

The messages you really should take away from the encounter guidelines are these Fights that are too far below the party are not fun except as the occasional ass-kicking party. It is OK to throw something at the PC's that they need to run from occasionally. Most of the time encounters should be within a level or two of the PC's. If you are throwing harder fights you probably need to have fewer of them between rest periods.

If you use the experience tables in the DMG, you don't need to worry much about the number of encounters per level unless you are planning farther into the future.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
weepingminotaur 09-15-06, 01:24 PM	Hey all, I'm a DM returning to the job after a year's vacation, and now that I'm about to resume playing D&D, I feel the need to brush up on areas of DMing where I'm weak. To put it simply, I've always had trouble determining how many encounters I should put into an adventure, and the spread of difficulty involved. Using one or two published adventures as a guideline, I came up with an encounter number somewhere between 16 and 18, but this becomes problematic if I'm using the EL difficulty percentiles found in the DMG on page 49, table 3-2 (15% of 18 means 2.7 encounters should be very difficult, etc.). As well, I fail to see the point of devoting 5% of your adventure to encounters that are going to be overpowering -- what's the point of designing an encounter just so that the players can run away from it or get killed? Things become even murkier when I try to reconcile the EL spread with the information about level advancement, which states that "13.33 encounters of an EL equal to the player characters' level allow them to gain a level" (DMG 41). How then do very difficult or easy encounters (i.e. encounters above or below the party’s average level) factor into level advancement? The 13.33 rule seems of little value to me when the general rule of structuring adventures calls for 50% of your encounters to not be equal to the average level of the party. All this may seem like nitpicking, but I suppose I’m harping on these points because after years of thumbing my nose at DMG adventure guidelines and winging it, some issues have cropped up in my player group that seem to be related to my DMing style. So now I want to do things by the book. What do other DMs have to say about this? When you sit down to design an adventure, how do you decide the spread of difficulty in your encounters? Cheers, weepingminotaur
Feriin 09-15-06, 01:34 PM	Those are just guidlines, for me though I pretty much just throw those out the window. My last session had everyone gaining enough exp to gain 2 levels each , with only 2 encounters.
razorboy 09-15-06, 01:41 PM	I try to stick to DMG advice (within reason) and it works out something like this. Approximately 14 encounters are needed to level. An encounter is not necesserily combat but an event that gives XP to the players. I try to level my players once every two sessions, three sessions or more after level 10. So below level 10, it works out to 7 encounters per sessions, which considering how long combat can be, works out to two or three combat encounters per sessions. Any more combat than that, and the sessions devolves into hack'n'slash and my players get bored with that pretty easily. Of course if your players like combat more, run 3 to 4 combat encounters, and 3 to 4 non-combat encounters (like traps, roleplaying, hazards, etc) and it's still a good balance.
weepingminotaur 09-15-06, 01:51 PM	Thanks for your feedback. Actually, this campaign is explicitly going to be more of the dungeon crawl variety, with emphasis on combat, because I don't have time right now to create elaborately detailed campaigns with intrigue, fleshed-out characters, and nuanced storytelling. Would like to in future, but for now, it's mostly going to be combat. Razorboy, when you say approximately 14 encounters are needed to pass a level, what EL level are you talking about? Because, again, the DMG says 13.33 encounters with an EL equal to the average character level, but what about the other 50% of the encounters that are higher or lower?
John05 09-15-06, 02:28 PM	I wish my group had more time for more encounters. Three hours doesn't fit more than two encounters, I think. :(
Sildatorak 09-15-06, 07:06 PM	what about the other 50% of the encounters that are higher or lower? Consider that to just be a piece of advice. See what your group wants and tailor more to them rather than sticking to some by-the-book formula. My group, for example, prefers a few harder fights (maybe an EL 2 higher than the group's EPL) to more fights that are individually less challenging. The messages you really should take away from the encounter guidelines are these Fights that are too far below the party are not fun except as the occasional ass-kicking party. It is OK to throw something at the PC's that they need to run from occasionally. Most of the time encounters should be within a level or two of the PC's. If you are throwing harder fights you probably need to have fewer of them between rest periods. If you use the experience tables in the DMG, you don't need to worry much about the number of encounters per level unless you are planning farther into the future.