*Pats his players on the head* [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
GraveDigger
01-19-07, 08:48 PM So a player of mine has come up with the tactic to use magic missile and ray type spells to sunder weapons. Is this legal? Because I've been reading the sunder rules and it says it is done with a melee attack. "You can use a melee attack with a slashing or bludgeoning weapon...." to me that seems to disallow the types of spells he is using. Now the black blade of disaster I'd not have a problem with. What do you all think?
DM Denubis
01-19-07, 08:52 PM I'm not sure, and too lazy to look it up, but I could swear that ranged sunders deal half damage.
Grod_The_Giant
01-19-07, 08:54 PM no.
smoker
01-19-07, 08:55 PM Make consistent calls that work best for your game.
Fireclave
01-19-07, 09:02 PM Sunder
You can use a melee attack with a slashing or bludgeoning weapon to strike a weapon or shield that your opponent is holding. If you’re attempting to sunder a weapon or shield, follow the steps outlined here. (Attacking held objects other than weapons or shields is covered below.)
In other words. No.
Palomides
01-19-07, 09:09 PM If you have Complete Warrior there is a feat for range sunder. It also say what range sunder do normally (ie without feat).
Ioosef
01-19-07, 09:13 PM well... the Warlock's Eldritch Blast deals hallf damage to weapons, and it's usually a 60 ft. ray.
Fireclave
01-19-07, 09:42 PM I haven't read the Warlock yet (so I might be wrong on this) but that passage is probably there to indicate how the eldritch blast interacts with the rules for damaging objects (much like how fire energy deals 1/2 to objects).
Yalon
01-19-07, 09:50 PM Magic Missile is not legal for this, as does no damage to objects. Ray spells work quite well, though. Psionic rays, which can often be Sonic (ignoring hardness) are truly awesome at this.

Keep in mind, it's not technically sundering in this case, but rather targeting the weapons. It's perfectly reasonable for a DM to disallow this, but by my understanding of RAW, it is legal. It takes a pretty high roll (or several rays) to destroy an average greatsword, and magic ones are even tougher to destroy unless you can really pour on the damage.
Krusk
01-19-07, 10:08 PM first magic missile cant target objects, so thats a no go. Second there is a feat i would make him take to sunder with ranged weapons. It is creativly called ranged sunder. I guess that feat would work for ranged touch attacks and or rays.
RorixBladewing
01-19-07, 10:20 PM Apparently ranged sunder attempts can only be made with slashing or bludgeonig weapons.
From CW feat Ranged Sunder: "Normal: Objects take half damage from ranged weapons (other than siege weapons and the like). You can only sunder with a melee attack using a slashing or bludgeoning weapon."

Bottom line, your call.
Adrian_Crane
01-20-07, 12:54 AM Keep in mind, it's not technically sundering in this case, but rather targeting the weapons.
That's the way I understood it. I'd think that instead of a normal sunder, you simply use the spell as normal except that you target the weapon. I suppose that'd use the weapon's size AC, maybe add some fraction of the weilder's BAB if you want to be creative and let him make his weapon hard to hit (though then the spell could just hit him).

And MM specifically says it can't damage objects, so that one's a no go.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
GraveDigger 01-19-07, 08:48 PM	So a player of mine has come up with the tactic to use magic missile and ray type spells to sunder weapons. Is this legal? Because I've been reading the sunder rules and it says it is done with a melee attack. "You can use a melee attack with a slashing or bludgeoning weapon...." to me that seems to disallow the types of spells he is using. Now the black blade of disaster I'd not have a problem with. What do you all think?
DM Denubis 01-19-07, 08:52 PM	I'm not sure, and too lazy to look it up, but I could swear that ranged sunders deal half damage.
Grod_The_Giant 01-19-07, 08:54 PM	no.
smoker 01-19-07, 08:55 PM	Make consistent calls that work best for your game.
Fireclave 01-19-07, 09:02 PM	Sunder You can use a melee attack with a slashing or bludgeoning weapon to strike a weapon or shield that your opponent is holding. If you’re attempting to sunder a weapon or shield, follow the steps outlined here. (Attacking held objects other than weapons or shields is covered below.) In other words. No.
Palomides 01-19-07, 09:09 PM	If you have Complete Warrior there is a feat for range sunder. It also say what range sunder do normally (ie without feat).
Ioosef 01-19-07, 09:13 PM	well... the Warlock's Eldritch Blast deals hallf damage to weapons, and it's usually a 60 ft. ray.
Fireclave 01-19-07, 09:42 PM	I haven't read the Warlock yet (so I might be wrong on this) but that passage is probably there to indicate how the eldritch blast interacts with the rules for damaging objects (much like how fire energy deals 1/2 to objects).
Yalon 01-19-07, 09:50 PM	Magic Missile is not legal for this, as does no damage to objects. Ray spells work quite well, though. Psionic rays, which can often be Sonic (ignoring hardness) are truly awesome at this. Keep in mind, it's not technically sundering in this case, but rather targeting the weapons. It's perfectly reasonable for a DM to disallow this, but by my understanding of RAW, it is legal. It takes a pretty high roll (or several rays) to destroy an average greatsword, and magic ones are even tougher to destroy unless you can really pour on the damage.
Krusk 01-19-07, 10:08 PM	first magic missile cant target objects, so thats a no go. Second there is a feat i would make him take to sunder with ranged weapons. It is creativly called ranged sunder. I guess that feat would work for ranged touch attacks and or rays.
RorixBladewing 01-19-07, 10:20 PM	Apparently ranged sunder attempts can only be made with slashing or bludgeonig weapons. From CW feat Ranged Sunder: "Normal: Objects take half damage from ranged weapons (other than siege weapons and the like). You can only sunder with a melee attack using a slashing or bludgeoning weapon." Bottom line, your call.
Adrian_Crane 01-20-07, 12:54 AM	Keep in mind, it's not technically sundering in this case, but rather targeting the weapons. That's the way I understood it. I'd think that instead of a normal sunder, you simply use the spell as normal except that you target the weapon. I suppose that'd use the weapon's size AC, maybe add some fraction of the weilder's BAB if you want to be creative and let him make his weapon hard to hit (though then the spell could just hit him). And MM specifically says it can't damage objects, so that one's a no go.