Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Sybill 06-01-05, 09:03 PM	I have had more problems with this party than ever before. Don't get me wrong, they're a great party, but the situations.... Anyway, onto my question: How do I put a party of 11th ECL characters against a CR 18 dragon without a TPK? He's a really angry blue dragon, so I was thinking maybe he would challenge the party member that made him so angry to a duel, since he is lawful. That would pretty much ensure this character's death, however. And, what else? I mean, it seems unreasonable for him to let the party off without any retribution at all. I dunno, should he make them do something? Any ideas? If you want the whole story, it's at http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=438887
Always-Late 06-01-05, 09:09 PM	Just for clarification, are the mother dragon and wyrmlings dead or just dying?
Sybill 06-01-05, 09:11 PM	The mom was stabilized by the babies, and probably healed by the dad. The babies are not injured at all.
Always-Late 06-01-05, 09:23 PM	I suppose he'd probably see that the rest of the party isn't malicious, so he probably wouldn't kill them, but he would definitely demand compensation of some sort from the rest of the party, like money, or maybe even... a side quest!
Thyris Altonnen 06-01-05, 09:28 PM	Hold on a sec, let me clarify- blue dragons are EVIL. Lawful, sure, but still evil. Evil beings, by definition, are in life for themselves. So, why did mommy dragon, who could undoubtedly kick major PC butt, not attack them in the first place? Mothers are incredibly protective of their offspring. There must, logically, be something different about these dragons. What is it? that in itself is a worthy question. But. . . back to the problem. Assuming that these aren't vegan dragons or something like that, the PC's are all but doomed. They have no choice but to drop wyrmling and gold both and run for their lives from big daddy dragon, who will take advantage of his magical ability to destroy the PC's. Stuck. Again, a one-on one duel won't work because this papa dragon is PO'ed for the following reasons: -his mate is badly injured -there are intruders in his lair with his gold and his baby -and his own offspring helped one of these intruders. Unless this dragon has had a massive hemmorage in his brain, he will attack with his lightning breath, which will not harm his family or self, but cook the PC's alive. The traitorous wyrmling will also be killed by the parents. If you really want a dragon-friend, this wyrmling is the most likely candidate. Don't forget, adult dragons are not stupid, but escaping from one and running with all one's might away from papa will keep them alive, be an adequate challenge, and allow for a major adventure hook- an angry adult blue after the PC's! As for the technics, leave the PC's a possibility or two, but consider the escape a CR 11 or 12 riddle that they should get XP for. And if the badger wants to stop and fight, let him. No skin off your nose. Apologies for the length, but I'm notoriously long-winded. :angel:
Always-Late 06-01-05, 09:31 PM	Meh, in the original thread it says these were meant to be happy neutral dragons (undoubtedly houseruled, but whatever.) Short posts are fun.
Thyris Altonnen 06-01-05, 09:34 PM	happy neutral dragons (undoubtedly houseruled, but whatever.) "happy neutral" is not equal to "wimpy and a poor sense of reality". If a dragon's lair is impinged upon, they get MAD.
Rathje 06-01-05, 09:38 PM	How about the dragon summons some champion or something to fight on its behalf. It could take pleasure in watching other things hurt one another, or it could believe that it doesn't want to soil its claws, or fighting in front of the babies could have negative repercussions on their upbringing. Or, if the party has made a name for itself, the dragon could summon them and ask them to hunt down some party that has angered it and bring back proof (guess who). They then have to find a way to fake killing a group of adventurers with a bunch of money, or gather a group who can take the dragon down.
Always-Late 06-01-05, 09:40 PM	Which is why they're going to kill the badgers and only impose punishment on the rest of the party.
Thyris Altonnen 06-01-05, 09:46 PM	Then again, dragons don't have to be direct. if you want to, the PC's could be under a mind control spell to perform the dragon's deeds without realizing it. That's always lots of fun- make it seem like they are continuing their quest, only it ends up benefitting the dragon.
J.B. 06-01-05, 09:50 PM	Since the children weren't harmed at all, the mother survived (barely) and if she puts in a good word for the rest of the party for stopping their attack, the rest of the party could probably get off scot-free "IF" they offer up that badger on a silver platter when the daddy dragon shows up. If they offer any resistance or try to pull a fast one on him then don't pull any punches If the mother doesn't say anything then I'ld give them a 50% chance of either the above happening or the dragon simply slaughters them all. If the father chooses the later the party should still have diplomacy as an option to convince the dragon to just kill the one "Responsible" (Badger). If the mother condems the entire party then lets hope the party can run fast and hide well.
Grox 06-01-05, 10:30 PM	Make another, brand-new potential enemy the party has never met yet. Give it the LE alignment and make it very ruthless, and one that the party would never agree to cooperate with under normal circumstances. Then have this new enemy give the party some degree of help without being asked. Exactly how MUCH help is up to you. But it should be enough to give the dragon a rude surprise. This should be motivated by the new enemy ALSO being an enemy of the dragon in question. Suppose a lich wants a powerful item from the dragon's hoard, or the answer to a riddle, one of its babies, one of its body parts, whatever, which it won't give up. I'm inclined to go lich on this one, since they can have any CR you want, but you must tailor it to your campaign world & player group. Once the lich gets what it wants, have the object suddenly morph into its hidden "true form", an artifact-level item that suddenly makes the lich a lot more powerful. One aspect of this power should be that it gains some measure of control over the PCs. Not domination or anything -- that gets dull REAL quick, let me tell you --- but more of a blackmail thing, with unlimited range. Say it allows the lich to drain a random person's random ability score each day it's displeased with them; then it assumes that it can use the party as its puppets. If the party attacks the lich, let them dispel him, but then let him show off his brand-new, risk-free, nasty power on them. The rationale is that this is some powerful curse that the lich could only lay on people who somehow owed him something big --- like the ones who he aided against an angry blue dragon way out of their league. Then, you have to give the party hope right away that this isn't some permanent railroad with no way out. Have some other enemy of the lich (and maybe of the dragon too?) show up too late to affect any of the fighting, but start giving them clues about possible solutions. It's important to give the party fairly immediate ways on MULTIPLE ways to affect this problem. They could: 1) Pretend to cooperate with the lich. He will be sending his commands through intermediaries, since he won't want to give any leads for them to figure out his scry-proof location, or that of his phylactery. Therefore, they might be able to obey his orders to the letter, and fool him into thinking they are docile (thus avoiding his regular punishment for a time), while working on other solutions. 2) Immediately start trying to track down and kill the lich, starting with whatever of his minions they can find. This will quickly make an enemy of him, but it could also quickly make them certain allies (a church that hates undead, for example) 3) Back-burner the idea of killing the lich in return for finding a way out from under the lich's curse on them. A neutrally-aligned party could start trying to find its own artifact-level item, or a super-powerful MDJ effect, or even create some new items (say individual rings protecting them from the lich's wrath that could be passed around in the short term until they find enough treasure and other components for the item-creator in their party to make enough for everyone). 4) The dragon in question need not necessarily be killed in the initial confrontation. If the dragon and the party both survive, the dragon itself could well become an ally of the party --- though given the circumstances, a reluctant and half-hearted one --- certainly enough to rationalize the dragon deciding to let the party live, anyway. Of course, eventually they will want revenge on this lich. Exactly how long it should take to get there should depend on the lich's CR. (Remember, the lich's CR should not be so high that it could have simply waltzed into the dragon's lair and killed it without the party's help in the first place). This solution is a pretty specific and contrived, but the basic idea is that when you end up with your party facing unavoidable conflict with an enemy whose CR is way too high, add ANOTHER enemy of comparable CR who is also hostile to the party's first enemy. Make sure that the resulting confusion gives the party a chance to flee, play the two against each other, or at least stall for time. Have the conflict between the two BBEGs inherently involve a DELAY of substantial time in a confrontation between the party and either one of them. This will give the party time to gradually increase their power until they can deal with the threat(s) that were once beyond their ability. It's a delicate balancing act, and can maybe look like railroading if you're not careful. But this way there's a lot more wiggle room, more time to adjust the campaign if the players are getting unhappy, and a lot less chance of handing them either a free pass or a TPK.
Vaelan 06-02-05, 02:42 AM	Tell them a flight of blue dragons (the children, mother, and father) are flying in from the [direction]. Let them all step away from the badger while the flight of dragons proceeds to fly by and unleash their breath weapons on him.
Derren S. 06-02-05, 03:21 AM	Your players did a stupid thing and must now face the consequences. Give them a 2 days headstart where the father tends his mate and then send him after them attacking them mercilessly, not stopping before they convince him to do so (and this should be extremly hard) or the badger is dead (and he isn't strong enough to kill the others too).
High Octane 06-02-05, 10:18 AM	They better run. And not stop until they get away or see an even bigger dragon.