*URGENT* Falling into Lava [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Rumple_Cragstan
03-31-06, 03:59 PM Game is tonight, and I need oppinions before game happens, as it will definately change the tactics of the BBEG durring combat.

Situation:

Adventure setting is in a volcano. BBEG is a CR9 (can't remember the age category) Pyroclastic Dragon (Draconomicon). Final encounter will be done in a decent-sized room overlooking the rest of the dungeon within the volcano, and a pool of magma. The PCs are a group of 6 Lv.6 characters (Sct3/Rgr3, Rog6, Wiz6, Drd6, Ftr6, Drd3/Brb3) who are (usually, but not always) smart and resourceful (both in rules and ingenuity).

Problem:

As stated before, the final encounter is going to be done near a pool of lava. Its a 30ft fall from the combat area to the lava. Obviously, knocking PCs off that ledge is a great tactic, and I've thought of it. But then comes the question.

Question:

I don't know the density of lava in the least. If you fall 30ft into/onto it, will you land on it or fall through it? If the PCs will be taking 20d6 of damage (from being submersed) by me knocking them off there, they're obviously going to die. But if they just take the 2d6 from contact (and the 3d6 from falling), its just a (really) powerful attack.

What does everyone think? Please respond quick, game is starting in about 4 hours!
terrainmonkey
03-31-06, 04:05 PM falling into lava kills. no need to roll for damage from the fall, just say this: "you lose your balance on the hot rocks and fall, dropping 30' into the lava pit. The last thing you feel is the hot pain of a million daggers shooting into your body as you are cooked alive, and your body sinks into the flaming magma. This turns your body to ash. roll up a new character."

that about sums it up. there is no falling damage at all. you fall into lava, you die. don't give them any save of any kind. unless they are immune, in which case it is still 3d6 falling damage.
hope this helps
Illion the Red
03-31-06, 04:07 PM It really depends on how hot the lava is. The hotter it is, the more fluid and easier to penetrate it will be.

In all honesty, I think this is the end of the line for the PCs. If a PC does wind up dropping into the lava, it would be (at most) two rounds before they sink in and are fully immersed. If things start going against the dragon, I would expect it to retreat into/through the lava, breaking any line of effect and making it unpursuable. A little healing later and the dragon's back to eating PCs for lunch.
Derren S.
03-31-06, 04:07 PM No falling damage and 20d6 from lava every round.
meshon
03-31-06, 04:10 PM Lava Effects (from www.d20srd.org)

Lava or magma deals 2d6 points of damage per round of exposure, except in the case of total immersion (such as when a character falls into the crater of an active volcano), which deals 20d6 points of damage per round.

Damage from magma continues for 1d3 rounds after exposure ceases, but this additional damage is only half of that dealt during actual contact (that is, 1d6 or 10d6 points per round).

An immunity or resistance to fire serves as an immunity to lava or magma. However, a creature immune to fire might still drown if completely immersed in lava.
bitnine
03-31-06, 04:15 PM Immersion in lava does 20d6 a round (and as mentioned above, half that for 1d3 rounds after). Realistically, you just die. However, if you can survive 20d6 a round, your character is definately not realistic. Whether its protective magic or that your character is a tiefling pyromancer or you're some sort of legendary barbarian whose very skin turns away most sword strikes, you've moved out of the 'realistic' area into the stylized heroics zone. Such is what happens when you don't cap your player's levels very low.

Anyways, I'd place an "underlava" ledge underneath the lava at the end of the pool. It looks like it's as deep there, but there's only a very small arount of lava above the ledge for about the first 30', before it drops off. That way, if a player gets knocked off, they land on the ledge. They're in contact with a thin layer of lava and need to get back up (ouch, very tough situation). But they aren't eating 70ish damage a round.

(Seriously, if the force of the fall drives a character into lava, even the briefest touch does 20d6 followed by 10d6, average of 100.5 damage. Absolute minimum of 30 damage. But, if we tossed everyone on earth into lava for the briefest duration, chances are less than 1 in 300 trillion that any of them would take only 30 points of damage by D&D rules, no?)
Generic Poster
03-31-06, 04:17 PM hell, you should take a small amount of damage just being exposed to the heat of the lava, although I don't believe there are rules for that.

At anyrate, at least 20d6 for damage. Falling into lava should be deadly for just about anyone. In real life, people occassionally survive fires and falling from extreme heights, but I don't think a situation has come up where someone has survived a fall into lava.
Some_call_me_Tim
03-31-06, 04:31 PM The viscosity of lava has too many variables to be easily modeled in d20. I would say anything further than adjacent or perhaps the first 5 feet from the edge would be deep enough to allow total immersion.

I think the "exposure" would be adjacent to or in the 'splash' area of active lava fountains or walking across a very recent lava flow, or falling partially into a lava flow.

The big question is do you want it to be deadly? If not, say the pool is a recent semi-molten flow and treat it as a "soft" surface for falls that deals magma damage as well. If you want it to be deadly, then it is a molten lava lake that does 20d6. You can justify either way.
Sulaco
03-31-06, 04:57 PM falling into lava kills. no need to roll for damage from the fall, just say this: "you lose your balance on the hot rocks and fall, dropping 30' into the lava pit. The last thing you feel is the hot pain of a million daggers shooting into your body as you are cooked alive, and your body sinks into the flaming magma. This turns your body to ash. roll up a new character."

that about sums it up. there is no falling damage at all. you fall into lava, you die. don't give them any save of any kind. unless they are immune, in which case it is still 3d6 falling damage.
hope this helps

Or you could use the D&D rules. Your call.

Lava is rock. Melted rock, yes, but rock nonetheless. Even the hottest lava has a very thick consistency. Hitting it would be like like hitting a solid.
Rumple_Cragstan
03-31-06, 05:00 PM Ok, I'll clear some things up about the lava, because obviously some people don't have the DMG 2.

Exposure (such as quickly snatching up an item that fell into the lava) deals 2d6/round, and the continueing damage afterwards (as has been stated in a few earlier posts)

Immersion (such as being pulled under the lava by a creature immune to fire) deals 20d6/round. Which yes, pretty much means death.

And here's a note I want you guys to think about: the average person (level 1 commoners compose like 7/10 of every city) only have like 4-5 HP. So using the 'if a real person did this' ideal dosn't work - 30 damage to a person is like what happens when a bomb goes off in front of your face... you're pretty much liquified.

But I think I've come up with a decent solution for the issue.

There will be a small ledge off the side of the cliff by the lava. If a character falls, they get a reflex save (DC20, but strength based rather than DEX). If they fail, then they fall down and take exposure damage for 1 round, before they slip under and take 20d6 for immersion. In short, they get 1 round to make a climb check (after taking the falling/fire damage) to get thier sorry asses out of there.

Considering the ammount of rolls the PC would have to fail in order to get seriously hurt, I think itsa decent concept.

But should I just scrap the "Throw the PCs off the edge" idea altogether?
KnaveofClubs
03-31-06, 05:14 PM Well seeing that lava has a high consitency but still liquid, falling damage would be slightly reduced (maybe 20%). But, magma is so incredibly hot, the pcs (seeing it as a lvl 9 encounter) would most likely die on contact. Magma is so hot it can ignite trees before it even touches them. For a PC to survive this situation, he would need immuntiy to fire, free air, and cool air. A pc would die either from the heat, the heat burning up oxygen, the magma sucking them under like quicksand and drowing them, or the magma sucking them so far under, that the pressure from the thousands of pounds of molten rock would crush the pcs like a ripe tomato. Basically, if someone falls start rolling up a new character.
DmofAlterak
03-31-06, 05:22 PM Owie lava! I think the PC's that fall in will get an owie unless they can get out of it somehow.

Unless the PC's can fly or climb out fast they will probably sink anyway but you could check this:

Is the character wearing heavy equipment, armor, or treasure? pr is the character relatively light and unemcumbered.

I Hope that helps.
DmofAlterak
04-04-06, 06:18 PM Well this may not help any more but: unless some one in the group knows the densitys and ratios of fall rate and immersion etc. then the decision is probably up too the DM or a consensus among the players and the DM of what would be suitable whether realistic or not etc.
Rumple_Cragstan
04-04-06, 07:03 PM Yeh, the session is done with. I never really had to bother with it, because honestly the combat didn't go towards the situation which would have brought about the PCs falling into any lava. Well except one time, but it wasn't the PC, it was a Skeleton Barghest that one of the PCs had animated. So it died.

But yeh, the group and I talked about it, and I think we decided that it would be considered immersion, because you're more than waist deep when you hit, and thats more than enough to deal much more than a measly 2d6 damage.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Rumple_Cragstan 03-31-06, 03:59 PM	Game is tonight, and I need oppinions before game happens, as it will definately change the tactics of the BBEG durring combat. Situation: Adventure setting is in a volcano. BBEG is a CR9 (can't remember the age category) Pyroclastic Dragon (Draconomicon). Final encounter will be done in a decent-sized room overlooking the rest of the dungeon within the volcano, and a pool of magma. The PCs are a group of 6 Lv.6 characters (Sct3/Rgr3, Rog6, Wiz6, Drd6, Ftr6, Drd3/Brb3) who are (usually, but not always) smart and resourceful (both in rules and ingenuity). Problem: As stated before, the final encounter is going to be done near a pool of lava. Its a 30ft fall from the combat area to the lava. Obviously, knocking PCs off that ledge is a great tactic, and I've thought of it. But then comes the question. Question: I don't know the density of lava in the least. If you fall 30ft into/onto it, will you land on it or fall through it? If the PCs will be taking 20d6 of damage (from being submersed) by me knocking them off there, they're obviously going to die. But if they just take the 2d6 from contact (and the 3d6 from falling), its just a (really) powerful attack. What does everyone think? Please respond quick, game is starting in about 4 hours!
terrainmonkey 03-31-06, 04:05 PM	falling into lava kills. no need to roll for damage from the fall, just say this: "you lose your balance on the hot rocks and fall, dropping 30' into the lava pit. The last thing you feel is the hot pain of a million daggers shooting into your body as you are cooked alive, and your body sinks into the flaming magma. This turns your body to ash. roll up a new character." that about sums it up. there is no falling damage at all. you fall into lava, you die. don't give them any save of any kind. unless they are immune, in which case it is still 3d6 falling damage. hope this helps
Illion the Red 03-31-06, 04:07 PM	It really depends on how hot the lava is. The hotter it is, the more fluid and easier to penetrate it will be. In all honesty, I think this is the end of the line for the PCs. If a PC does wind up dropping into the lava, it would be (at most) two rounds before they sink in and are fully immersed. If things start going against the dragon, I would expect it to retreat into/through the lava, breaking any line of effect and making it unpursuable. A little healing later and the dragon's back to eating PCs for lunch.
Derren S. 03-31-06, 04:07 PM	No falling damage and 20d6 from lava every round.
meshon 03-31-06, 04:10 PM	Lava Effects (from www.d20srd.org) Lava or magma deals 2d6 points of damage per round of exposure, except in the case of total immersion (such as when a character falls into the crater of an active volcano), which deals 20d6 points of damage per round. Damage from magma continues for 1d3 rounds after exposure ceases, but this additional damage is only half of that dealt during actual contact (that is, 1d6 or 10d6 points per round). An immunity or resistance to fire serves as an immunity to lava or magma. However, a creature immune to fire might still drown if completely immersed in lava.
bitnine 03-31-06, 04:15 PM	Immersion in lava does 20d6 a round (and as mentioned above, half that for 1d3 rounds after). Realistically, you just die. However, if you can survive 20d6 a round, your character is definately not realistic. Whether its protective magic or that your character is a tiefling pyromancer or you're some sort of legendary barbarian whose very skin turns away most sword strikes, you've moved out of the 'realistic' area into the stylized heroics zone. Such is what happens when you don't cap your player's levels very low. Anyways, I'd place an "underlava" ledge underneath the lava at the end of the pool. It looks like it's as deep there, but there's only a very small arount of lava above the ledge for about the first 30', before it drops off. That way, if a player gets knocked off, they land on the ledge. They're in contact with a thin layer of lava and need to get back up (ouch, very tough situation). But they aren't eating 70ish damage a round. (Seriously, if the force of the fall drives a character into lava, even the briefest touch does 20d6 followed by 10d6, average of 100.5 damage. Absolute minimum of 30 damage. But, if we tossed everyone on earth into lava for the briefest duration, chances are less than 1 in 300 trillion that any of them would take only 30 points of damage by D&D rules, no?)
Generic Poster 03-31-06, 04:17 PM	hell, you should take a small amount of damage just being exposed to the heat of the lava, although I don't believe there are rules for that. At anyrate, at least 20d6 for damage. Falling into lava should be deadly for just about anyone. In real life, people occassionally survive fires and falling from extreme heights, but I don't think a situation has come up where someone has survived a fall into lava.
Some_call_me_Tim 03-31-06, 04:31 PM	The viscosity of lava has too many variables to be easily modeled in d20. I would say anything further than adjacent or perhaps the first 5 feet from the edge would be deep enough to allow total immersion. I think the "exposure" would be adjacent to or in the 'splash' area of active lava fountains or walking across a very recent lava flow, or falling partially into a lava flow. The big question is do you want it to be deadly? If not, say the pool is a recent semi-molten flow and treat it as a "soft" surface for falls that deals magma damage as well. If you want it to be deadly, then it is a molten lava lake that does 20d6. You can justify either way.
Sulaco 03-31-06, 04:57 PM	falling into lava kills. no need to roll for damage from the fall, just say this: "you lose your balance on the hot rocks and fall, dropping 30' into the lava pit. The last thing you feel is the hot pain of a million daggers shooting into your body as you are cooked alive, and your body sinks into the flaming magma. This turns your body to ash. roll up a new character." that about sums it up. there is no falling damage at all. you fall into lava, you die. don't give them any save of any kind. unless they are immune, in which case it is still 3d6 falling damage. hope this helps Or you could use the D&D rules. Your call. Lava is rock. Melted rock, yes, but rock nonetheless. Even the hottest lava has a very thick consistency. Hitting it would be like like hitting a solid.
Rumple_Cragstan 03-31-06, 05:00 PM	Ok, I'll clear some things up about the lava, because obviously some people don't have the DMG 2. Exposure (such as quickly snatching up an item that fell into the lava) deals 2d6/round, and the continueing damage afterwards (as has been stated in a few earlier posts) Immersion (such as being pulled under the lava by a creature immune to fire) deals 20d6/round. Which yes, pretty much means death. And here's a note I want you guys to think about: the average person (level 1 commoners compose like 7/10 of every city) only have like 4-5 HP. So using the 'if a real person did this' ideal dosn't work - 30 damage to a person is like what happens when a bomb goes off in front of your face... you're pretty much liquified. But I think I've come up with a decent solution for the issue. There will be a small ledge off the side of the cliff by the lava. If a character falls, they get a reflex save (DC20, but strength based rather than DEX). If they fail, then they fall down and take exposure damage for 1 round, before they slip under and take 20d6 for immersion. In short, they get 1 round to make a climb check (after taking the falling/fire damage) to get thier sorry asses out of there. Considering the ammount of rolls the PC would have to fail in order to get seriously hurt, I think itsa decent concept. But should I just scrap the "Throw the PCs off the edge" idea altogether?
KnaveofClubs 03-31-06, 05:14 PM	Well seeing that lava has a high consitency but still liquid, falling damage would be slightly reduced (maybe 20%). But, magma is so incredibly hot, the pcs (seeing it as a lvl 9 encounter) would most likely die on contact. Magma is so hot it can ignite trees before it even touches them. For a PC to survive this situation, he would need immuntiy to fire, free air, and cool air. A pc would die either from the heat, the heat burning up oxygen, the magma sucking them under like quicksand and drowing them, or the magma sucking them so far under, that the pressure from the thousands of pounds of molten rock would crush the pcs like a ripe tomato. Basically, if someone falls start rolling up a new character.
DmofAlterak 03-31-06, 05:22 PM	Owie lava! I think the PC's that fall in will get an owie unless they can get out of it somehow. Unless the PC's can fly or climb out fast they will probably sink anyway but you could check this: Is the character wearing heavy equipment, armor, or treasure? pr is the character relatively light and unemcumbered. I Hope that helps.
DmofAlterak 04-04-06, 06:18 PM	Well this may not help any more but: unless some one in the group knows the densitys and ratios of fall rate and immersion etc. then the decision is probably up too the DM or a consensus among the players and the DM of what would be suitable whether realistic or not etc.
Rumple_Cragstan 04-04-06, 07:03 PM	Yeh, the session is done with. I never really had to bother with it, because honestly the combat didn't go towards the situation which would have brought about the PCs falling into any lava. Well except one time, but it wasn't the PC, it was a Skeleton Barghest that one of the PCs had animated. So it died. But yeh, the group and I talked about it, and I think we decided that it would be considered immersion, because you're more than waist deep when you hit, and thats more than enough to deal much more than a measly 2d6 damage.