Post/Author/DateTime	Post
witchhunter99 11-10-05, 10:23 PM	Before my last campaign, as a joke my buddy, who was a cleric at the time, created 1 gallon of holy water for me that i carried around in a jug. It was normally just a joke, but when we fought the boss, who was a high leveled vampire...i decided to use my gallon. I threw it at the vampire, it hit, and the container broke, covering the monster in 1 gallon of the blessed liquid. Time for the math... there is 1 fluid ounce of holy water in a normal vial... there are 64 fluid ounces in a gallon.. a vial of holy water does 1d6... now by my calculations thats 64d6 of holy damage, i should have royally raped the vampire..but the DM had some kind of vampire fetish letting me only do 6d10 instead... i was wondering if this is fair? should players be allowed to make gallons of damaging liquid and throw it all at once?
tylerthehobo 11-10-05, 10:30 PM	I'm thinking that even with a broken container, you're still not looking at all the water making contact with the vampire - lots of splash, etc. Wow, had a similar conversation about fire berries/seeds with a player at a game, last week - he wanted to put a ton of 'em in a bag and create a magical explosive. Rambo the Magician. ;)
On_the_wings_of_TPK 11-10-05, 10:35 PM	i was wondering if this is fair? should players be allowed to make gallons of damaging liquid and throw it all at once? Would you be okay if your DM had an NPC throw a gallon of alchemist's fire at your character, dealing 64d6 points of damage to you? Would that be fair? (Honest question, not rhetorical.) Secondly, did you calculate the weight of that gallon of water for encumberance penalties? (I think it's around 8 lb/4 kg IRL.)
makeshiftwings 11-10-05, 10:36 PM	I think your DM was generous to let it do that much. The D&D damage rules don't really work mathematically like that. I mean in theory, common sense does say that 64 times the amount of holy water would do 64 times the damage. But in theory, common sense also says that getting your face split in half by a huge axe would kill you, while in D&D, it only does 1d12. Also, did the cleric actually pay all 1600 GP in material components to make all that water?
Rhomphaia 11-10-05, 10:39 PM	The 1d6 from a flask accounts for the splashing effect with 1 point being done to undead within 5 feet of the splash point. This would have accounted for 64d6 damage with 64 points of splash damage. However, with this much liquid, I would not have had it all act at once. Maybe one round it did half and the next round it did the other half or something like that. This accounts for the water running down and spreading over the body of the undead critter.
Tobus Neth 11-10-05, 11:17 PM	What the Vampire should have done... "damn, these adventurers are way to prepared. assume gasesous form and vacant.
Vaelan 11-10-05, 11:17 PM	I have found that many DMs are more kind when presented with Holy Water Balloons than a ridiculous amount of holy water delivered at once. It might be because more people can figure out roughly what portion of the water hits a person hit by a water balloon as they are more familiar with them, or it may be because the entire idea of commoners fighting undead with water balloons is funny. At this time, I cannot be sure.
Dark_Druid 11-10-05, 11:40 PM	In my eyes many things would have to be considered in this encounter. 1) How do you carry a gallon of blessed water in a clay jug for some time and through all your previous encounters you did not break it? Then all of a sudden you can just POOF, break it on a fleshy creature. Throw a clay bowl at your little brother...watch it not break. Now bang it softly on oh, lets say a rock and see it crack/shatter/break into pieces. Now imagine that rock being something in your character's backpack... 2) What's the penalty on throwing an akward shaped 8lb item? Unless you're a stone giant with +10 1gal. jug throwing skill I don't think this would work without a really great roll. 3) Lost water, water contacted, water dripping down body... My equation, judged on the description of the action, the level of success of the roll, and the ingenuity of the action (pretty good, i think this would be sweet to witness)...would come out to something like this. 10d6 intial, with 10 splash, then 1d6 holy dmg for the next 3 rounds. That's total 13d6 dmg to target and 10 to all around immediate vicinity. Plus 1d4 damage to account for the weight of a jug of water hitting your body, and the lacerations from the shards of clay...maybe, but that's just insult to injury. But then again...your DM chose to give it 10d6 damage, and he's the final word on this...
TheChilliGod 11-10-05, 11:44 PM	I would have treated it like total immersion, since the vampire's getting drenched all over just like a human would if he was swimming in acid with no protection. (the PHB says that Holy water is almost identical to acid for undead) So I vote 20d4 damage for 1 round of exposure. Note-Holy water deals 2d4 damage, not 1d6.
Leewei 11-10-05, 11:46 PM	In general, DMs I've played with (or myself for that matter) simply will not allow quantities of special supplies to be used simultaneously except with traps. Holy water is kept in a vial, not a jug. Spilling it on the earth or storing it improperly should cause it to rapidly lose its blessing.
On_the_wings_of_TPK 11-10-05, 11:49 PM	Throw a clay bowl at your little brother...watch it not break. Now bang it softly on oh, lets say a rock and see it crack/shatter/break into pieces. Now imagine that rock being something in your character's backpack... sigged
Bringslite 11-10-05, 11:51 PM	How many ounces are there in a flask of holy water? Holy water comes in flasks not vials.
green_yawgmoth 11-11-05, 01:37 AM	I'd just like to point out that there's 128oz. in a gallon. :) http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/yawgmoth/kittyjig.gif
Silais 11-11-05, 03:11 AM	If I where the DM I would handle it like this: Each time the increment of (holy)water beyond the first increment (ounce) doubles it does an extra increment of damage and would cap off at 20d4 damage(total imersion). So therefor: 1 ounce: 2d4 damage 2 ounces: 4d4 damage 4 ounces: 6d4 damage 8 ounces: 8d4 damage 16 ounces: 10d4 damge 32 ounces: 12d4 damage 64 ounces: 14d4 damage 1 Gallon: 16d4 damage 2 Gallons: 18d4 damage 4 Gallons: 20d4 damage The reason I would do this is that it is more balanced then simply streight up multiplying the damage and caps off at the same point as droping said undead into a lake of holy water. It also is nice because it still creates the sense of realism (holy water, realistic?) that more should do more damage. If I had to defend this to my players on a logic level, I would simply say that as more water hits the undead, the more water simply sloshes off the already hit surfaces before it can have an effect. And then if they keep complaining that it should do more damage, I have them come accross a treasure hoard consisting of 5000 type 5 necklaces of fireball... And a fire trap... Instanuke. The only problem is that don't have a very firm grasp of the imperial system, so I'm not sure just how much a gallon is. -Silais, the guy thats runout of ideas for stupid signoffs.
WolfHati 11-11-05, 03:45 AM	I also use exponentially diminishing returns for things of that sort.
Silais 11-11-05, 04:18 AM	I also use exponentially diminishing returns for things of that sort. Thank you! I knew there had to be a name for that. Hmmmm, and here they tell me I've got a mathmatical mind. Bah, what do they know anyway? Oh and just how much is a gallon? I assume it's simmilar to a metric 4 leter milk jug. Bah, damn imperial. Sorry for this little off-topic post. -Silais
ashcat_lt 11-11-05, 07:39 AM	I was thinking how funny it was that it took 13 posts for somebody to remember that a gallon actually is twice as big as the OP was saying. Then there were these posts by people who have no idea what a gallon is. a gallon is 3.7854118 litres. That is a US liquid gallon, as opposed to a US dry gallon or a UK gallon. Maybe we should be using a UK gallon for flavor??? Next time you have a question like this, and you're sitting here on the internet, go over here (http://www.onlineconversion.com/) and while we're off on this tangent I'd like to mention that most of my life would be a lot easier using the metric system, but can you imagine saying "I'm going to take a 1.524 meter step"?
On_the_wings_of_TPK 11-11-05, 07:43 AM	Oh and just how much is a gallon? I assume it's simmilar to a metric 4 leter milk jug. Bah, damn imperial. Sorry for this little off-topic post. -Silais I'd just like to point out that there's 128oz. in a gallon. As for how many litters that is, I haven't got a clue. I as well am from Canada, and we use the metric system. Except for hieght, for some odd reason...
Soepkommetje 11-11-05, 07:44 AM	1 US gallon is 3,785 liters, 1 UK gallon is 4,546 liters assuming they meant the US standrad, I'd say you were rather accurate with the 4-liter milk jug (imperial-metric is hell for us europeans (at least for me, and my group).. how the hell am I supposed to know how much foot/inch my character is for example :!
ashcat_lt 11-11-05, 07:50 AM	wow, those came up fast. again I'll point out... http://onlineconversion.com
Soepkommetje 11-11-05, 08:22 AM	assuming you have internet at the playing site.. which is a luxury if it's not at the home of one of the players or the DM ;) (luckily there are complete pre-programmed conversion apps in cellphones now :D)
Kevtar 11-11-05, 08:23 AM	According to the SRD, Holy Water comes in flasks not vials (as previously posted) which inflict 2d4 points of damage plus 1 point splash to everything within 5 feet. There isn't a description that lists how many ounces are in a flask of holy water. However, in the Oil-flask description, the SRD states that the Oil-flask = 1 Pint. Assuming that a flask in D&D terms is holds the same amount of liquid (unless specifically stated) then a flask of holy water could hold 1 pint of holy water. 1 Pint= 16 oz (1 Gallon)128 oz / (1 Pint)16 oz = 8 Pints Thus, if one were to simply multiply the damage caused, it would be 16d4 (8 flasks @ 2d4) which would give us a range of 16-64 points of damage plus splash. Of course, this assumes that ALL of the liquid was delivered in a single blow. Additionally, it is plausible to reason that Holy Water damage is measured within a range of damage (2-8 pts) because the rules are assuming that all of the water is not hitting the target. Perhaps, a roll of 8 from 2d4 means the entire liquid struck the creature while a roll of 4 from 2d4 means half the amount of liquid hit the creature? Personally, I would rule the above encounter in one of two ways. Either a 1-shot blow of 16d4 or breaking it down over the course of a few rounds: 1st round = 8d4+Splash 2nd round = 4d4 3rd round = 2d4 4th round = 2d4 When discussing this scenario, all I can think of is the "wicked witch" in The Wizard of Oz after Dorothy doused her with water. It took a few seconds for the water to sink in and melt the old-hag, but eventually it did its job. What a world... what a world...
Annaylli 11-11-05, 10:43 AM	I go by the weapon sizing rules. A gallon is 8 times the volume of a flask. Which is doubled in each dimension (2x2x2). A gallon is one size category larger than a flask so one weapon size up. 2d4 >> 2d6 with 1d2 splash. 8 times the cost for +1 average damage. Not worth it. Which makes the pint the most cost effect means of dealing damage and thus why they come in pint-sized flasks.
Ogmug 11-11-05, 11:00 AM	1 US gallon is 3,785 liters, 1 UK gallon is 4,546 liters assuming they meant the US standrad, I'd say you were rather accurate with the 4-liter milk jug (imperial-metric is hell for us europeans (at least for me, and my group).. how the hell am I supposed to know how much foot/inch my character is for example :! http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20040316a Rules of the game: Going Metric the above article might be helpful for you.
MidnightLightning 11-11-05, 11:09 AM	And while we're off on this tangent I'd like to mention that most of my life would be a lot easier using the metric system, but can you imagine saying "I'm going to take a 1.524 meter step"? I propose we stay away from the metric system solely on the grounds that people seem to have more trouble spelling liter than anything else*: As for how many litters that is... Now we're measuring volume in births of kittens, apparently. I assume it's simmilar to a metric 4 leter milk jug. While milk is four "leter"s long, that doesn't describe the volume of the jug. *This post is to be taken entirely in jest; I know there are many non-native english speakers on the boards, and spelling well is not a prerequisite to post on these boards; I just thought it funny. And if it makes you feel better, you're still doing better than my slightly dyslexic college roommate, who one time IMed me while writing a paper to ask "How do you spell coarse (as in to suds someone)?" ... I stared at that for a good 30 seconds before finally replying "Coerce (as in to seduce someone)".
thefallenDM 11-11-05, 11:17 AM	I propose we stay away from the metric system solely on the grounds that people seem to have more trouble spelling liter than anything else*: No we're measuring volume in births of kittens, apparently. While milk is four "leter"s long, that doesn't describe the volume of the jug. *This post is to be taken entirely in jest; I know there are many non-native english speakers on the boards, and spelling well is not a prerequisite to post on these boards; I just thought it funny. And if it makes you feel better, you're still doing better than my slightly dyslexic college roommate, who one time IMed me while writing a paper to ask "How do you spell coarse (as in to suds someone)?" ... I stared at that for a good 30 seconds before finally replying "Coerce (as in to seduce someone)". Umm, isn't milk actually four letters long...
MidnightLightning 11-11-05, 11:21 AM	Umm, isn't milk actually four letters long... Yes. It is. But the post I was quoting used 'leter' instead of 'letter', which is why my statement is in quotes.
imperialjunkie 11-11-05, 11:22 AM	A few have said it above, and I was suprised how long it took for someone to figure it out. The OP had the wrong info on how much liquid is in the attack as stated in the PHB and also what the damage roll is. Simply: 1. Holy water comes in flasks. 2. Flasks hold 1 pint of liquid. 3. There are 8 pints to a gallon. 4. Pint of holy water does 2d4 damage to undead. 5. Gallon of holy water does 8*(2d4) damage. 6. Damage to vampire is 16d4 damage. Simple math.
Kevtar 11-11-05, 11:23 AM	I go by the weapon sizing rules. A gallon is 8 times the volume of a flask. Which is doubled in each dimension (2x2x2). A gallon is one size category larger than a flask so one weapon size up. 2d4 >> 2d6 with 1d2 splash.8 times the cost for +1 average damage. Not worth it. Which makes the pint the most cost effect means of dealing damage and thus why they come in pint-sized flasks. That's a great idea. I never really thought of cubing the size of a creature to equal a one size category increase. Who'd a thunk that my math teacher was right ALL THIS TIME... I really DO use this stuff.
Sulaco 11-11-05, 11:24 AM	If you hit it with 64 doses of holy water and if each dose did 1d6 damage then you should have dealth 64d6 damage. Period. However, as was pointed out above, neither of these is in fact the case as your numbers are all way off. Also, the variability of the die rolls accounts for not all of the liquid hitting, so ignore all the rubbish justifications along these lines that others have posted. I despise it when DMs change or ignore the rules work cos the players are going to kick nine kinds of crap out of their pet BBEG. However, this is all entirely depedent on whether or not the water was created fairly. In other words, that the cleric spent the time and ponied up the 1,600 gp to make 64 does and you were willing to lug around 8 gallons (70.4 lbs, not including container) of holy water "just for laughs". If not, then you shouldn't have had it to begin with and so you're lucky the DM let you get away with what you did.
Kevtar 11-11-05, 11:26 AM	I propose we stay away from the metric system solely on the grounds that people seem to have more trouble spelling liter than anything else*: Now we're measuring volume in births of kittens, apparently. While milk is four "leter"s long, that doesn't describe the volume of the jug. *This post is to be taken entirely in jest; I know there are many non-native english speakers on the boards, and spelling well is not a prerequisite to post on these boards; I just thought it funny. And if it makes you feel better, you're still doing better than my slightly dyslexic college roommate, who one time IMed me while writing a paper to ask "How do you spell coarse (as in to suds someone)?" ... I stared at that for a good 30 seconds before finally replying "Coerce (as in to seduce someone)". ;) I prefer Litre
imperialjunkie 11-11-05, 11:26 AM	I go by the weapon sizing rules. A gallon is 8 times the volume of a flask. Which is doubled in each dimension (2x2x2). A gallon is one size category larger than a flask so one weapon size up. 2d4 >> 2d6 with 1d2 splash. 8 times the cost for +1 average damage. Not worth it. Which makes the pint the most cost effect means of dealing damage and thus why they come in pint-sized flasks. Well I'm not sure this would translate to thrown liquid attacks. In this case I'd rule that it would be a straight multiplier (16d4). Reason being that a pint of liquid would douse a portion of the vampire's body, doing the 2d4 damage based on 'skin' coverage. But a gallon could douse a lot more of the vampire, covering more of its body and thus doing more damage.
Sulaco 11-11-05, 11:40 AM	I propose we stay away from the metric system solely on the grounds that people seem to have more trouble spelling liter than anything else*: Indeed, some people do have trouble spelling it - MidnightLightning among them, apparently, as it is properly (read: not Americanized) spelled litre. When criticizing someone about their spelling in an open forum it is pretty much essential that you are actually correct, otherwise you run the risk of looking foolish.
Ogmug 11-11-05, 11:47 AM	Indeed, some people do have trouble spelling it - MidnightLightning among them, apparently, as it is properly (read: not Americanized) spelled litre. When criticizing someone about their spelling in an open forum it is pretty much essential that you are actually correct, otherwise you run the risk of looking foolish. Yes, i couldn't agree more. Further, when correcting someone about proper spelling, it is absolutely essential that you know what the standards are, and who set them. For example, correcting the usage of the word "liter" vs "litre" without consulting the appropriate SI pages. SI is the abbreviation for the Système International d'Unités, the modernized version of the metric system that the U.S. and other nations have agreed to use. (Do not abbreviate it as S.I.) This list is provided to point out the correct way to use the metric system and to show many of the incorrect examples of its usage that may be given on package labels and in other printed matter. These correct ways to use SI are set by the international standards that define the SI. and even further The spellings of meter and metre [or liter and litre] are both correct. In the U.S., the meter and liter spellings are used most often; but the English-spellings used in most other nations are metre and litre. As this is an agreed upon spelling by the SI, the governing body dealing with the metric system in the global community, both spellings are correct :evillaugh :schemes: :rofl: :bounce:
makeshiftwings 11-11-05, 11:54 AM	The SRD does in fact say that holy water is 1 pint, under the Bless Water spell. So yes, there are only 8 in a gallon after all. However, I still think that the d&d system just does not work if you are going to simply multiply the amount of the liquid by the amount of damage in one dose. This is like the problem of using telekinesis to hit someone with 50 daggers, and saying you do 50d4 damage. Think about it; in d&d, you are saying that getting hit full force with a gigantic greataxe does a measly 1d12. Running and jumping off of a 600 foot cliff and landing on your head does 20d6. Being crushed by a giant cube of steel weighing a ton does 10d6. Being chewed up and swallowed by a tyrannosaurus rex does around 6d6. Now do you really want to make it so that getting hit by a large jug of alchemist's fire / holy water / acid is far and above all that, and thus the most deadly substance in the world? Do you really want your players to quickly realize that a few fairly cheap gallon jugs of this stuff is going to be more powerful than most spells cast by 20th level casters, and all magic weapons in the entire game? And are your players going to think it's fair when you have an NPC ogre decide to throw a 40-gallon barrel of it at them, and do 320d6 damage?
Calico Jack Drake 11-11-05, 11:58 AM	Each time the increment of (holy)water beyond the first increment (ounce) doubles it does an extra increment of damage ... I actually really like this, if you don't mind (and, well, even if you do :P ) I think I'm going to plagerize your idea. So, based on the idea that the flask is a pint rather than an ounce, and there are 8 pints to a gallon, it would be: 1 pint - 2d4 2 pints - 4d4 4 pints - 6d4 8 pints - 8d4 + 8pts Splash That nicely uses WotC's doubling rules across the board. Well done --CJ
Sulaco 11-11-05, 11:58 AM	As this is an agreed upon spelling by the SI, the governing body dealing with the metric system in the global community, both spellings are correct Yes, both are correct. Ther former (the "re" spelling) is correct in nations that actually use the metric system. The latter (the "er" spelling") is common to a nation that does not use the metric system. There is a reason it is called the metric - not "meteric" - system. Throw as many smileys around as you wish, it doesn't make you more right.
Ogmug 11-11-05, 12:06 PM	And admitting it is a correct spelling with caveats doesn't make you sound any less pompous. Your post comes across as the ONLY way to spell it is with the re ending, unless you are "American". And as far as I know, the only person who would consider calling it meteric is GW. Also, if you are so sure that the standard only applies to countries that don't use the metric system (which by the way, the US gov't uses it almost exclusively for anything from science to military coordinates and distances), tell me. What symbol does Canada, the US, and Australia use when abreviating Liter? In case you don't know, the preffered symbol is the capital L. In the rest of the world, the lowercase is preferred. This discounts your (illformed) theory that standards apply only to countries that use the metric system. For if it were correct, Canada and Australia would both use the lowercase l as well. In England, they are still having problems accepting all aspects of the metric system. Shops often still sell things by the pound, even though a few years back there were fines imposed on shops that did that. Distances on road signs still show how many miles, followed by how many kilometers away a place is. Speed limit signs still show both MPH and KPH. Yet England is considered a "metric" country, and of course you prefer the English spelling of the words. I am not the one who tried to call out a post that used "Americanized" spelling in a derogatory way.
Bruunwald 11-11-05, 12:16 PM	Could be your DM was using the tables for increase in weapon size as a guide. I agree with that. As others have said, not all the water was guaranteed to get on the vampire. Do an experiment yourself: fill a milk jug with water and throw it at somebody. See how much actually gets on them. Even if it did, damage is not exponential per size category. For instance, a 1d12 medium-size weapon does not go up to 2d12 at large, 3d12 at the next increment, 4d12, etc. It's increase is more gradual.
Sulaco 11-11-05, 12:16 PM	And admitting it is a correct spelling with caveats doesn't make you sound any less pompous. Your post comes across as the ONLY way to spell it is with the re ending, unless you are "American". It's not the only way, just the only correct way. PS - You forgot your smileys.
Ogmug 11-11-05, 12:18 PM	It's not the only way, just the only correct way. PS - You forgot your smileys. Nope, because in the first post i was poking fun. The second you displayed your pompousnous... and in this one, you reverted back to jest. (or so i assume. I don't know, after all I am not in the correct country) And now to jump off this derailment, as I have been completely rude to the OP. I would look at the max damage you can do by immersion. 20d6 Also, a vial of holy water is 1 oz. A flask of holywater (the usual grenade weapon) is 16 oz. A single vial would do 1/16 of the damage, (minimum of 1). A jug (or suitable device for delivering 1 gallon of holy water) can only cover so much of a creature before the rest of the water just falls to the floor. 8d6 seems a fair max, with 1d8 splash damage to the surrounding creatures.
Sulaco 11-11-05, 01:23 PM	Nope, because in the first post i was poking fun. The second you displayed your pompousnous... and in this one, you reverted back to jest. (or so i assume. I don't know, after all I am not in the correct country) It's not your fault. You can't help where you were born. I forgot a ;) in my last post but yes, it was indeed meant in a friendly manner (as are most of my posts). BTW, I am not "pompous", but my posts sometimes come off as such online owing to the lack of things like body language and tone of voice. This is why I made my current sig. Unfortunately, some people don't read it and some others simply ignore it. A fella can only do so much, though. Oh well, I guess I am just destined to be a misunderstood genius. :(
Ogmug 11-11-05, 01:26 PM	It's not your fault. You can't help where you were born. I forgot a ;) in my last post but yes, it was indeed meant in a friendly manner (as are most of my posts). BTW, I am not "pompous", but my posts sometimes come off as such online owing to the lack of things like body language and tone of voice. This is why I made my current sig. Unfortunately, some people don't read it and some others simply ignore it. A fella can only do so much, though. Oh well, I guess I am just destined to be a misunderstood genius. :( I don't see a sig in your post, and I have sigs turned on...... :twitch: <edit> nm. i see it .. it only shows on the first post in a thread ok, not pompous. How about arrogant? :rimshot:
UltimateReality 11-11-05, 01:33 PM	ZOMGWTFBBQ. I had totally suppressed learning about the SI until now. Damn you, boards, damn you! *shakes fist* Also, thank you for the fun argument on how to spell litre/liter. It made my day. :)
tarkin 11-11-05, 01:58 PM	No, you guys are ignoring physics for the sake of power. Strict game or Loose Game Water, like acid, does not stick, instead it flows off of you. It is for this reason that there ARE NO rules for more damage for hitting them with larger vials of holy water. 1d6 is the amount of damage that getting hit by ANY amount of holy water, unless the water is prevented from flowing off you (i.e. you are immersed). If the water is prevented from flowing off you, you should take 20d6 (just like you take if immersed in acid)) Note, the entire reason why napalm was invented was to make the burning gasoline solid enough so that it would stick to your body instead of mostly flow off of it. If you want to do more than 1d6/container, you need to jellify the substance, just like the real world did with gasoline. Power Game: Flasks of Holy Water contain 1 pint, as per the core rules. A gallon would contain 8 pints, so at best it would do 8d6. Throwing it would be a Full round action for someone not of Huge Size or larger, and range would be 10ft. Keep the max of 20d6, like acid, for immersion. Anything Goes Game: As Power Game, but ignore the 20d6 max, that applies to acid, not holywater.
Kevtar 11-11-05, 02:50 PM	No, you guys are ignoring physics for the sake of power. Strict game or Loose Game Water, like acid, does not stick, instead it flows off of you. It is for this reason that there ARE NO rules for more damage for hitting them with larger vials of holy water. 1d6 is the amount of damage that getting hit by ANY amount of holy water, unless the water is prevented from flowing off you (i.e. you are immersed). If the water is prevented from flowing off you, you should take 20d6 (just like you take if immersed in acid)) Note, the entire reason why napalm was invented was to make the burning gasoline solid enough so that it would stick to your body instead of mostly flow off of it. If you want to do more than 1d6/container, you need to jellify the substance, just like the real world did with gasoline. Power Game: Flasks of Holy Water contain 1 pint, as per the core rules. A gallon would contain 8 pints, so at best it would do 8d6. Throwing it would be a Full round action for someone not of Huge Size or larger, and range would be 10ft. Keep the max of 20d6, like acid, for immersion. Anything Goes Game: As Power Game, but ignore the 20d6 max, that applies to acid, not holywater. I'm following your argument, but Holy Water does 2d4 +1 points. So, if using your power game theory, does that equate to 16d4? PS: I can throw a gallon-sized object (approximately 8lbs). Maybe I can't do it well, but then again I'm not an 18 STR PC. Shoot, I'm not even a 12 STR PC.
Ogmug 11-11-05, 02:56 PM	I'm following your argument, but Holy Water does 2d4 +1 points. So, if using your power game theory, does that equate to 16d4? PS: I can throw a gallon-sized object (approximately 8lbs). Maybe I can't do it well, but then again I'm not an 18 STR PC. Shoot, I'm not even a 12 STR PC. Do you mean 2d4+1 as in 3-9 points of damage, or 2d4 with 1 point of splash damage to adjacent creatures.... Holy Water: Holy water damages undead creatures and evil outsiders almost as if it were acid. A flask of holy water can be thrown as a splash weapon. Treat this attack as a ranged touch attack with a range increment of 10 feet. A flask breaks if thrown against the body of a corporeal creature, but to use it against an incorporeal creature, you must open the flask and pour the holy water out onto the target. Thus, you can douse an incorporeal creature with holy water only if you are adjacent to it. Doing so is a ranged touch attack that does not provoke attacks of opportunity. A direct hit by a flask of holy water deals 2d4 points of damage to an undead creature or an evil outsider. Each such creature within 5 feet of the point where the flask hits takes 1 point of damage from the splash. Temples to good deities sell holy water at cost (making no profit).
Kevtar 11-11-05, 03:08 PM	2d4 +1 splash (splash for every creature within 5 feet)
ssampier 11-11-05, 03:34 PM	No, you guys are ignoring physics for the sake of power. Strict game or Loose Game Water, like acid, does not stick, instead it flows off of you. It is for this reason that there ARE NO rules for more damage for hitting them with larger vials of holy water. 1d6 is the amount of damage that getting hit by ANY amount of holy water, unless the water is prevented from flowing off you (i.e. you are immersed). If the water is prevented from flowing off you, you should take 20d6 (just like you take if immersed in acid)) Note, the entire reason why napalm was invented was to make the burning gasoline solid enough so that it would stick to your body instead of mostly flow off of it. If you want to do more than 1d6/container, you need to jellify the substance, just like the real world did with gasoline. Normally I don't really like introducing real world into a fantasy game of dragons and goblins, but in this case, I think it makes the game more fun (especially since what's good for goose is good for gander, so the enemies should ready 1 gal. of alchemist fire). According to the SRD Holy Water deals either direct 2d4 damage plus 1 hit point in 5' splash radius, or through "grid attack" where it deals damage to each creature in range. I would say 4d4 plus 2 hit points in 5' splash radius would be maximum instead. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/goodsAndServices.htm http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm#throwSplashWeapon
witchhunter99 11-11-05, 05:56 PM	HAHAHAHAHAHA! I just wanted to let u guys know how much i laughed when i saw that this thing had about 50 replies. :P I posted just as a joke, to say i did it, but its nice to know you guys care enough about the rules to argue over something as dumb as this. Glad to see D&D has such devoted fans. Im proud of all of you.
Always-Late 11-11-05, 06:15 PM	No, you guys are ignoring physics for the sake of power. Strict game or Loose Game Water, like acid, does not stick, instead it flows off of you. It is for this reason that there ARE NO rules for more damage for hitting them with larger vials of holy water. 1d6 is the amount of damage that getting hit by ANY amount of holy water, unless the water is prevented from flowing off you (i.e. you are immersed). If the water is prevented from flowing off you, you should take 20d6 (just like you take if immersed in acid)) Note, the entire reason why napalm was invented was to make the burning gasoline solid enough so that it would stick to your body instead of mostly flow off of it. If you want to do more than 1d6/container, you need to jellify the substance, just like the real world did with gasoline.Wait, so pouring a giant cauldron boiling oil off a castle's battlement won't hurt an attacker more than throwing down pint of burning oil?
Ogmug 11-11-05, 06:29 PM	Wait, so pouring a giant cauldron boiling oil off a castle's battlement won't hurt an attacker more than throwing down pint of burning oil? I think the mechanics of pouring a 30 gallon cauldron are different than dropping a 1 gallon jug. dropping the 1 gallon jug would be like a burst. Single shot, over and done with in seconds. Pouring boiling oil onto an individual typically takes a little longer. Now, if you just dropped the cauldron on thier head, then I would be inclined to say it would have the same damage as if you dropped a jug. Over, done, oil splashes everywhere, some gets your target, some doesn't. Some runs off of him and is not replaced (unlike a cauldron, which woudl be like a mini-shower, oil constantly being replaced with more oil)
Koji 11-11-05, 06:33 PM	The ruling I use is that fluid is fluid--a vial of acid/holy water/whatever is basically the maximized effect in one dose, as that will cover the enemy fairly well in the fluid and account for splashing. Liquid coats in a thin layer, so any extra will always splash off. It should be doing the same damage no matter what, unless you're dealing with immersion or single doses being thrown in succession (thus refreshing the fluid ((acid breaks down, holy water loses its holyness, etc.)) and allowing the reaction to continue). Edit: Has anyone else ever been burned by acid? It takes a second to get going, so if it a large amount hit someone and dripped off, the effects wouldn't be any different than if a small amount hit them and coated just as much without dripping off.
Always-Late 11-11-05, 08:50 PM	Just as a note, a gallon of holy water is an incredible waste of money anyway, considering that you take a -4 to hit with it anyway, deal maybe 4d4 damage + 4 to all undead in range, and costs 200 gp. And any intelligent undead would not go near someone carrying a big jug in an hostile manner. Or they'd sunder the jug. What a waste of 200 gp. And anyway, if you wanted a ranged improvised weapon, a thrown barrel does 2d6, as per Complete Warrior.
rkr1970 11-11-05, 11:38 PM	This should be easy enough to settle. TRY IT!!!! I took a bucket, put a pint of water in it and threw it at a friend. He had a big wet spot on his shirt with a little that ran down his pants. I then took the same bucket, put a gallon of water in it, then threw that at another friend. This person had a completely soaked shirt, pants were wet to about the knee, and her shoes were filled with water. MOST of the gallon seemed to bounce off, but she was a heck of a lot wetter than the guy who got hit with a pint. I, of course, was even wetter still when they chased me around with the hose... :cool: Anyway, I think total surface area, I would have to go with the 4 times greater theory. I didn't get pictures of the experiment before it degenerated, but that sounds fairly close.
UmbraLux 11-12-05, 12:42 AM	which by the way, the US gov't uses it almost exclusively for anything from science to military coordinates and distances Science possibly, but that has little to do with the nationality or government. Scientists are simply (normally) rational enough to use the simplest and most transferable measurement. The US military on the other hand still uses both miles and nautical miles, pounds, and ounces. Unless you serverd in a different US military possibly?
rkr1970 11-12-05, 01:54 AM	Science possibly, but that has little to do with the nationality or government. Scientists are simply (normally) rational enough to use the simplest and most transferable measurement. The US military on the other hand still uses both miles and nautical miles, pounds, and ounces. Unless you serverd in a different US military possibly? But grunts are taught to think in terms of kilometers. That's what they mean when they measure distances in "clicks".