A big scary BBEG [Archive] - Wizards Community

A big scary BBEG [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Ranger_ORB
12-05-05, 07:24 PM Can anyone give me some ideas on a good BBEG to have at the end of a campaign, also can you make him "scary" basically able to put some serious fear into the players , if possible post some of his/her tactics + levels and such

Thanks
~Ranger~
WCH
12-05-05, 07:34 PM First, pick a broad classification for your BBEG. Should be one of the following:

1) Humanoid (easy to relate to, the kind of villain the PCs could imagine becoming themselves)
2) Monstrous Humanoid (like humanoid, only more barbaric. Generally more physically focused, but can have powerful magic as well, such as Ogre Mage)
3) Abberation (scary because of how evil and unnatural it is. Read some stories by HP Lovecraft to get an idea of how abberations can be used to full advantage)
4) Outsider (very clear in its evil, and a classic foe, but rarely has much complication to it)

Pick one of those four. The BBEG needn't actually have hitdice in the type you select... for example, I've rolled monstrous humanoid and giant together, would classify a vampire as humanoid, etc. The four are more important as vastly different approaches to how to build your BBEG.

Next, figure out what level you want the campaign to end at. Most people say 20, but that requires a huge amount of time in game if you start at lvl 1, so many people will pick something much closer to starting level after a little thinking about it. My campaign leads up to a climax at lvl 10, for example, and after that a new plotline will begin.

Once you have this worked out, flip through the appropriate manuals until something strikes your fancy. Libris Mortis, Lords of Madness, Draconomicon and Vile Darkness especially, as the four are laden in flavour and also have lots of interesting foes the players might not be entirely familiar with. It's very important that you like whatever you pick... don't just take something because the level seems about right, take it because you think "Damn, this is really cool."

Once you have a monster or type of monster picked out, work on advancing it in some way to make it different from every other monster of that type -- that's what will make your BBEG memorable. A few class levels and an interesting application of a standard ability are all it takes to turn "boring" into "original."

Next work on minions. What kind of creatures/people work for the BBEG? Why? Make a few sample ones, and come up with some numbers (5,000 cultists, 5 demons who answer his call, a dragon which lurks in the darkness, etc). Then work on their place in the world, and why they're so important a threat that the PCs will risk their lives fighting against them.
OctoberRaven
12-05-05, 07:52 PM Necromancers, Vampires, Mind Flayers, Liches, Black Dragons.

Any of those four (perhaps a combination of at least two?) makes for a good 'scary' BBEG.

For a necromancer, I'd go for a graveyard, which gives the Necromancer corpses to Animate (if you like manga, read volumes 5 and 6 of Shaman King. Concrete proof that insane necromancers rule).

You can always have a Marilith. Anyone who got up to Kary in FF1 knows how nasty a Marilith can get.

You can always go for BoVD characters Gilliard DeRosan, the Kythons, or maybe a high level Thrall of <insert demon lord here>.

Or, if you're epic level, why not have them fight Asmodeous himself?
WCH
12-05-05, 07:53 PM Some staple BBEGs, from each category mentioned:
1) Humanoid: Take any player class and advance it to lvl 20, maybe sticking on a template of some kind, and you have an archetypical BBEG. The Archmage/Lich is fairly standard, as is a demon summoning/undead controlling Cleric. For non casting classes, it's pretty easy to make them grandmasters of a guild, or something similar... like a crimelord or whatnot. Pick a class you particularly like (should probably be Lawful Evil, as LE makes the best BBEGs in my experience) and advance it to 4 levels above the level you want the PCs to be when they kill it.

2) Monstrous Humanoid: Similar to 1, only you have more freedom to go with something less easy to relate to. Ogre Magi make good BBEGs, as do Minotaurs, giants, etc. If you want, you can make the enemy an entire army of Bugbears, Hobgoblins or similar, and have them at war with the player races -- BBEG becomes a lvl 20 Hobgoblin, and his minions all have class levels as well. Don't simply use the base monsters from the manuals, in any case.

3) Abberation: By far the most common abberant BBEG is the Mind Flayer, and for good reason. They're highly intelligent, extremely evil, and pretty damned scary when you get right down to it. Lords of Madness provides a lot of details about their society, life cycle, etc, so there's a wealth of material available on them. Personally, I'm using Neogi, a spider-like race from MMII and Lords of Madness, for a "horror from beyond the stars" angle. If you've read any Lovecraft and wish to emulate the lurking terror of his work, Aboleths are your best bet, but pose some problems when used in a game, since they're pretty useless out of water, meaning you need to get the PCs to go into the ocean after it.

4) Outsider: A Lord of Hell is a pretty good option (read Vile Darkness for details on them), or you can design your own advanced devil who merely aspires to being one... building his empire on the Material plane and hoping to eventually overthrow one of the Lords, perhaps even Asmodeus himself. You could always go with a demon, but demons are so chaotic that I don't like them as BBEGs... much more interesting to have a really sophisticated hierarchy of minions the PCs have to battle through, whereas with a demon it usually just comes down to crazed cultists and a final battle. Note that Outsider BBEGs don't need to be either demons or devils at all -- they could be Efreeti, Formians, or even Fallen Angels/Archons/Eladrins/whatever.

Just keep looking until you come across something and think "That's freaking cool! I've gotta use that." If you can't find anything, don't make your BBEG yet, just have some side quests and introduce the concept once you have a good one. Half-assed BBEGs are worthless.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ranger_ORB 12-05-05, 07:24 PM	Can anyone give me some ideas on a good BBEG to have at the end of a campaign, also can you make him "scary" basically able to put some serious fear into the players , if possible post some of his/her tactics + levels and such Thanks ~Ranger~
WCH 12-05-05, 07:34 PM	First, pick a broad classification for your BBEG. Should be one of the following: 1) Humanoid (easy to relate to, the kind of villain the PCs could imagine becoming themselves) 2) Monstrous Humanoid (like humanoid, only more barbaric. Generally more physically focused, but can have powerful magic as well, such as Ogre Mage) 3) Abberation (scary because of how evil and unnatural it is. Read some stories by HP Lovecraft to get an idea of how abberations can be used to full advantage) 4) Outsider (very clear in its evil, and a classic foe, but rarely has much complication to it) Pick one of those four. The BBEG needn't actually have hitdice in the type you select... for example, I've rolled monstrous humanoid and giant together, would classify a vampire as humanoid, etc. The four are more important as vastly different approaches to how to build your BBEG. Next, figure out what level you want the campaign to end at. Most people say 20, but that requires a huge amount of time in game if you start at lvl 1, so many people will pick something much closer to starting level after a little thinking about it. My campaign leads up to a climax at lvl 10, for example, and after that a new plotline will begin. Once you have this worked out, flip through the appropriate manuals until something strikes your fancy. Libris Mortis, Lords of Madness, Draconomicon and Vile Darkness especially, as the four are laden in flavour and also have lots of interesting foes the players might not be entirely familiar with. It's very important that you like whatever you pick... don't just take something because the level seems about right, take it because you think "Damn, this is really cool." Once you have a monster or type of monster picked out, work on advancing it in some way to make it different from every other monster of that type -- that's what will make your BBEG memorable. A few class levels and an interesting application of a standard ability are all it takes to turn "boring" into "original." Next work on minions. What kind of creatures/people work for the BBEG? Why? Make a few sample ones, and come up with some numbers (5,000 cultists, 5 demons who answer his call, a dragon which lurks in the darkness, etc). Then work on their place in the world, and why they're so important a threat that the PCs will risk their lives fighting against them.
OctoberRaven 12-05-05, 07:52 PM	Necromancers, Vampires, Mind Flayers, Liches, Black Dragons. Any of those four (perhaps a combination of at least two?) makes for a good 'scary' BBEG. For a necromancer, I'd go for a graveyard, which gives the Necromancer corpses to Animate (if you like manga, read volumes 5 and 6 of Shaman King. Concrete proof that insane necromancers rule). You can always have a Marilith. Anyone who got up to Kary in FF1 knows how nasty a Marilith can get. You can always go for BoVD characters Gilliard DeRosan, the Kythons, or maybe a high level Thrall of <insert demon lord here>. Or, if you're epic level, why not have them fight Asmodeous himself?
WCH 12-05-05, 07:53 PM	Some staple BBEGs, from each category mentioned: 1) Humanoid: Take any player class and advance it to lvl 20, maybe sticking on a template of some kind, and you have an archetypical BBEG. The Archmage/Lich is fairly standard, as is a demon summoning/undead controlling Cleric. For non casting classes, it's pretty easy to make them grandmasters of a guild, or something similar... like a crimelord or whatnot. Pick a class you particularly like (should probably be Lawful Evil, as LE makes the best BBEGs in my experience) and advance it to 4 levels above the level you want the PCs to be when they kill it. 2) Monstrous Humanoid: Similar to 1, only you have more freedom to go with something less easy to relate to. Ogre Magi make good BBEGs, as do Minotaurs, giants, etc. If you want, you can make the enemy an entire army of Bugbears, Hobgoblins or similar, and have them at war with the player races -- BBEG becomes a lvl 20 Hobgoblin, and his minions all have class levels as well. Don't simply use the base monsters from the manuals, in any case. 3) Abberation: By far the most common abberant BBEG is the Mind Flayer, and for good reason. They're highly intelligent, extremely evil, and pretty damned scary when you get right down to it. Lords of Madness provides a lot of details about their society, life cycle, etc, so there's a wealth of material available on them. Personally, I'm using Neogi, a spider-like race from MMII and Lords of Madness, for a "horror from beyond the stars" angle. If you've read any Lovecraft and wish to emulate the lurking terror of his work, Aboleths are your best bet, but pose some problems when used in a game, since they're pretty useless out of water, meaning you need to get the PCs to go into the ocean after it. 4) Outsider: A Lord of Hell is a pretty good option (read Vile Darkness for details on them), or you can design your own advanced devil who merely aspires to being one... building his empire on the Material plane and hoping to eventually overthrow one of the Lords, perhaps even Asmodeus himself. You could always go with a demon, but demons are so chaotic that I don't like them as BBEGs... much more interesting to have a really sophisticated hierarchy of minions the PCs have to battle through, whereas with a demon it usually just comes down to crazed cultists and a final battle. Note that Outsider BBEGs don't need to be either demons or devils at all -- they could be Efreeti, Formians, or even Fallen Angels/Archons/Eladrins/whatever. Just keep looking until you come across something and think "That's freaking cool! I've gotta use that." If you can't find anything, don't make your BBEG yet, just have some side quests and introduce the concept once you have a good one. Half-assed BBEGs are worthless.