A bit overwhelmed... What do you think of this solution? [Archive] - Wizards Community

A bit overwhelmed... What do you think of this solution? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Maniacal_Cackle
02-18-05, 01:12 AM I've DMed off and on for a few years now, and the thing that keeps getting me is that I would love to have a really developed world/setting/whatever so that we can create a pretty in-depth story, but it's pretty overwhelming trying to create fleshed out areas and NPC's and everything else. Does anyone have any suggestions for this sort of problem? I've thought of one thing that I might give a try:

The game will begin in an extremely isolated place, such as the Frozen Lands of the north or some such. The characters will be part of a small tribe (I'm thinking 20-100 people), so I will be able to know pretty much everything about the tribe. There will be a couple places of interest, but as it's pretty isolated, not too much "civilized" life has formed anything here, so mainly naturally occuring places of interest (and maybe some ancient, "civilized" ones... Perhaps a lich is actually hiding out somewhere around? A good high level challenge?). One of the "places" of interest, for example, would be the savage(r) orc tribe (Good for those low levels?) Another could be the lair of a fairly young white dragon (good mid level challenge?) I don't know how much of this should be known to the PC's and the tribe though.

What do you think? I'm sure many of you have ran into this problem, how did you deal with it? Do you think this would be a good way to start? Some people say try running modules (is that what they're still called? Were they ever called that? I mean pre-made adventures...), I've tried it, and I have to say, I don't like it. It doesn't feel like something I created when I use a module (go figure :D ) Do you think this type of setting would be fun for the players? (Note that I would probably end up restricting classes as a result of such extreme seclusion. Stores would be quite scarce, you would have to live with whatever you find. Probably end up putting additional strain on me to maintain balance, but oh well. Probably other factors).

Thanks for your help, any thoughts on this or anything else would be appreciated.
SD
02-18-05, 01:40 AM Honestly? I think it would be sweet. I would love to get into a campaign where the PCs start off low level knowing everything about the groups around them. Even if it's not frozen wastes, but just a nomadic tribe an any uncivilized area. With the supplements out there these days (especialy Unearthed Arcana, with variant barbarians and druids, savage bards, and wilderness rogues) it wouldn't be terribly difficult to get a half-decent party.

I dunno, maybe make the whole deal a world-building exercise where the players are more responsible for things than you. They help their tribe form a settlement, defend against invasions, map new territories, gain new allies in the form of other tribes (humanoid or monstrous). While there's plenty of things for the fighters to fight and the scouts to explore, the skill-based chars might also find themselves negotiating among their people or finding clever ways around non-combat situations that threaten the whole group, like a hard summer with winter approaching. As long as you take it slowly (level up less often than once per session, for example; the PCs need a reason to not venture far and away from their home base) and you have players who are fine with taking it slowly (building a community is piecemeal), I think that would be a blast.

SD Edit: You bum, now I wanna run one.
ECOM
02-18-05, 02:02 AM I've DMed off and on for a few years now, and the thing that keeps getting me is that I would love to have a really developed world/setting/whatever so that we can create a pretty in-depth story, but it's pretty overwhelming trying to create fleshed out areas and NPC's and everything else. Does anyone have any suggestions for this sort of problem? I've thought of one thing that I might give a try:

world building is probably the most dificult process for a dm but probably the most rewarding (in my opinion) Creating a believable world for your players is long process with a lot of work.

The game will begin in an extremely isolated place, such as the Frozen Lands of the north or some such. The characters will be part of a small tribe (I'm thinking 20-100 people), so I will be able to know pretty much everything about the tribe. There will be a couple places of interest, but as it's pretty isolated, not too much "civilized" life has formed anything here, so mainly naturally occuring places of interest (and maybe some ancient, "civilized" ones... Perhaps a lich is actually hiding out somewhere around? A good high level challenge?). One of the "places" of interest, for example, would be the savage(r) orc tribe (Good for those low levels?) Another could be the lair of a fairly young white dragon (good mid level challenge?) I don't know how much of this should be known to the PC's and the tribe though.
this sounds like a good start. Starting small and expanding at your pc pace will help with some of the overwelming feeling. you may want to consider increasing the population of the startng area as your players will likely out grow it fast and need a bigger comunity (unless you are running low magic and equipment then it could be ok)

What do you think? I'm sure many of you have ran into this problem, how did you deal with it? Do you think this would be a good way to start? Some people say try running modules (is that what they're still called? Were they ever called that? I mean pre-made adventures...), I've tried it, and I have to say, I don't like it. It doesn't feel like something I created when I use a module (go figure :D ) Do you think this type of setting would be fun for the players? (Note that I would probably end up restricting classes as a result of such extreme seclusion. Stores would be quite scarce, you would have to live with whatever you find. Probably end up putting additional strain on me to maintain balance, but oh well. Probably other factors).
I think you are off to a good start. just don't try to do too much at once.
keep things general untill you need it.

here is a list of things that i think you should have ready before play.

1. the starting settelment that the players will go between adventures
2. the surounding area (20-50 miles) you dont have to have details yet but know what surounds the town
3. religion basics use the phb as a guide on how detailed the gods should be at start.(start with mabie 10-20 gods)
4. know what races are around and if you are going to have diferent cultures avalable later (don't flesh these out untill you are ready to use them)
5. any house rules you plan on using.
6. any charicter creation rules that deviate from the phb (if races are allowed or not any classes that will or will not be used equipment prices ect.)
7. note how plentiful magic is, also healing capabilityies and god activity
8. world cosmotology (# of moons ect)
9. make a calender and general history
10. anything else that interest you or your players
good luck hope this helps
preacher of nothing
02-18-05, 02:40 AM I've DMed off and on for a few years now, and the thing that keeps getting me is that I would love to have a really developed world/setting/whatever so that we can create a pretty in-depth story, but it's pretty overwhelming trying to create fleshed out areas and NPC's and everything else. Does anyone have any suggestions for this sort of problem? I've thought of one thing that I might give a try:

The game will begin in an extremely isolated place, such as the Frozen Lands of the north or some such. The characters will be part of a small tribe (I'm thinking 20-100 people), so I will be able to know pretty much everything about the tribe. There will be a couple places of interest, but as it's pretty isolated, not too much "civilized" life has formed anything here, so mainly naturally occuring places of interest (and maybe some ancient, "civilized" ones... Perhaps a lich is actually hiding out somewhere around? A good high level challenge?). One of the "places" of interest, for example, would be the savage(r) orc tribe (Good for those low levels?) Another could be the lair of a fairly young white dragon (good mid level challenge?) I don't know how much of this should be known to the PC's and the tribe though.

What do you think? I'm sure many of you have ran into this problem, how did you deal with it? Do you think this would be a good way to start? Some people say try running modules (is that what they're still called? Were they ever called that? I mean pre-made adventures...), I've tried it, and I have to say, I don't like it. It doesn't feel like something I created when I use a module (go figure :D ) Do you think this type of setting would be fun for the players? (Note that I would probably end up restricting classes as a result of such extreme seclusion. Stores would be quite scarce, you would have to live with whatever you find. Probably end up putting additional strain on me to maintain balance, but oh well. Probably other factors).

Thanks for your help, any thoughts on this or anything else would be appreciated.

You know, i tried that once. Created an entire world, with pantheons, States, civilizations, history, everything you would ever need. And i started off each character in a different part of the world. The fighter for example started in a southern country, that was 80% desert. It was a tribal nation, ruled generally by shamans and such. However, the shamans were getting a bit too powerful and, well, one of the plot hooks is that one of the stronger shamans goes crazy, tra la la.
I did this because i wanted to try something different than the usual "Frozen North" style with leather and fur covered barbarians and fighters. These guys were something more like Persians in style of combat, dressing, etc. etc.
Made for some good fun too till the players killed it for me :(

(by killed it i mean ruined the entire fun of the campaign....). I'll probably make some adjustments and bring it back to life one day, but for now it's still a dream until i find the right players :(.

~preacher~
Ut-Napishtim
02-18-05, 02:59 AM Personally I'd reccomend using a published setting if you're relatively inexperienced. There are several to choose from, and probably one or more will appeal to you. I think the idea of starting the players off in an isolated locale is a bad one. If they're in some small village or part of some savage tribe there's going to be a lot of stuff that's not available to them. I garauntee you your players will throw a wrench in there and probably not design their characters to suit such a backdrop.

Rather than look for how they can make something that fits into this concept they'll most likely try to come up with something outside it - so that they can have an advantage over the NPC's and any PC's that go along with it as well. Rather than Barbarians and Rangers I'd expect to see a lot of full plate wearing, fullblade weilding Paladins, half-red-dragon Sorcerers, and savvy 'city slicker' Rogues. For most players the first thing that comes into their minds is not: How can I make a character that suits the DM's concept here? its: How can I make a character that will totally own all these rustic, snowbound simpletons?

What a lot of folks do though is to only detail a small area where the PC's are starting, and then fill in the rest as they go along. This is a little different because the players will know that while they're starting out at 'podunk village' that there are many realms beyond it that they will soon be exploring and designing their character to maximize the podunk village angle will leave them flat when they go to the 'magnificent magocracy' or the 'ancient elf forest.' Then you can have a couple adventures or whatever at your start point, and then move things around as they party develops. Designing an entire campaign around one remote area pretty much garauntees your players will want some sort of exceptional character that comes from outside that area, and therefore is above it and immune to any stipulations it may carry with it.

Using a published setting whether it Dragonlance, Forgotten Realms, or what-have-you carries the added benefit that many of the players will already have read some of the related literature, so it will be easy for you to convey tone and setting to them. You don't have to stop and explain who 'The Red Wizards of Thay' are - because they already know. All you have to do is let them know that one is up to something sinister outside Waterdeep, and the players will automatically be immersed and know exactly what you're talking about without you having to explain the history of Waterdeep or the Red Wizards, etc.

In all honesty most home brewed campaign settings I've had the displeasure of playing in totally suck. They usually revolve around a laundry list of restrictions the DM has come up with for this 'wonderful new world' and a blank sheet when it comes to added benefits/races/classes for PC's. Most of these DM's just saw their custom backdrop as another tool for coercing players into what they wanted them to do because they lacked the storytelling ability to direct the game otherwise. I'm not saying that's what you or anyone else here is doing - just what my general experience has been.
Maniacal_Cackle
02-18-05, 11:52 AM In all honesty most home brewed campaign settings I've had the displeasure of playing in totally suck. They usually revolve around a laundry list of restrictions the DM has come up with for this 'wonderful new world' and a blank sheet when it comes to added benefits/races/classes for PC's. Most of these DM's just saw their custom backdrop as another tool for coercing players into what they wanted them to do because they lacked the storytelling ability to direct the game otherwise. I'm not saying that's what you or anyone else here is doing - just what my general experience has been.

I suppose I should have gone a bit more indepth about my players. Many of them are pushing for a great deal more role-playing/storyline. One of them is even for the idea of playing some sessions without any character sheets at all. And I've already run the idea by some of them, and they seem to kind of like the idea.

So while I would have to agree with you that this would often frustrate players, I think it probably suits my group at this particular time. Thanks for pointing it out though!

And thanks everyone else too!

Edit: And the comment about not being a good enough storyteller to do another setting? Well, that's the premise of the first post, I don't think I am good enough (yet!)

Edit2: And the comment about a long list of restrictions without any list of advantages is also an excellent point. I had not thought of that, and I will be sure to attempt to mitigate restrictions with advantages.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Maniacal_Cackle 02-18-05, 01:12 AM	I've DMed off and on for a few years now, and the thing that keeps getting me is that I would love to have a really developed world/setting/whatever so that we can create a pretty in-depth story, but it's pretty overwhelming trying to create fleshed out areas and NPC's and everything else. Does anyone have any suggestions for this sort of problem? I've thought of one thing that I might give a try: The game will begin in an extremely isolated place, such as the Frozen Lands of the north or some such. The characters will be part of a small tribe (I'm thinking 20-100 people), so I will be able to know pretty much everything about the tribe. There will be a couple places of interest, but as it's pretty isolated, not too much "civilized" life has formed anything here, so mainly naturally occuring places of interest (and maybe some ancient, "civilized" ones... Perhaps a lich is actually hiding out somewhere around? A good high level challenge?). One of the "places" of interest, for example, would be the savage(r) orc tribe (Good for those low levels?) Another could be the lair of a fairly young white dragon (good mid level challenge?) I don't know how much of this should be known to the PC's and the tribe though. What do you think? I'm sure many of you have ran into this problem, how did you deal with it? Do you think this would be a good way to start? Some people say try running modules (is that what they're still called? Were they ever called that? I mean pre-made adventures...), I've tried it, and I have to say, I don't like it. It doesn't feel like something I created when I use a module (go figure :D ) Do you think this type of setting would be fun for the players? (Note that I would probably end up restricting classes as a result of such extreme seclusion. Stores would be quite scarce, you would have to live with whatever you find. Probably end up putting additional strain on me to maintain balance, but oh well. Probably other factors). Thanks for your help, any thoughts on this or anything else would be appreciated.
SD 02-18-05, 01:40 AM	Honestly? I think it would be sweet. I would love to get into a campaign where the PCs start off low level knowing everything about the groups around them. Even if it's not frozen wastes, but just a nomadic tribe an any uncivilized area. With the supplements out there these days (especialy Unearthed Arcana, with variant barbarians and druids, savage bards, and wilderness rogues) it wouldn't be terribly difficult to get a half-decent party. I dunno, maybe make the whole deal a world-building exercise where the players are more responsible for things than you. They help their tribe form a settlement, defend against invasions, map new territories, gain new allies in the form of other tribes (humanoid or monstrous). While there's plenty of things for the fighters to fight and the scouts to explore, the skill-based chars might also find themselves negotiating among their people or finding clever ways around non-combat situations that threaten the whole group, like a hard summer with winter approaching. As long as you take it slowly (level up less often than once per session, for example; the PCs need a reason to not venture far and away from their home base) and you have players who are fine with taking it slowly (building a community is piecemeal), I think that would be a blast. SD Edit: You bum, now I wanna run one.
ECOM 02-18-05, 02:02 AM	I've DMed off and on for a few years now, and the thing that keeps getting me is that I would love to have a really developed world/setting/whatever so that we can create a pretty in-depth story, but it's pretty overwhelming trying to create fleshed out areas and NPC's and everything else. Does anyone have any suggestions for this sort of problem? I've thought of one thing that I might give a try: world building is probably the most dificult process for a dm but probably the most rewarding (in my opinion) Creating a believable world for your players is long process with a lot of work. The game will begin in an extremely isolated place, such as the Frozen Lands of the north or some such. The characters will be part of a small tribe (I'm thinking 20-100 people), so I will be able to know pretty much everything about the tribe. There will be a couple places of interest, but as it's pretty isolated, not too much "civilized" life has formed anything here, so mainly naturally occuring places of interest (and maybe some ancient, "civilized" ones... Perhaps a lich is actually hiding out somewhere around? A good high level challenge?). One of the "places" of interest, for example, would be the savage(r) orc tribe (Good for those low levels?) Another could be the lair of a fairly young white dragon (good mid level challenge?) I don't know how much of this should be known to the PC's and the tribe though. this sounds like a good start. Starting small and expanding at your pc pace will help with some of the overwelming feeling. you may want to consider increasing the population of the startng area as your players will likely out grow it fast and need a bigger comunity (unless you are running low magic and equipment then it could be ok) What do you think? I'm sure many of you have ran into this problem, how did you deal with it? Do you think this would be a good way to start? Some people say try running modules (is that what they're still called? Were they ever called that? I mean pre-made adventures...), I've tried it, and I have to say, I don't like it. It doesn't feel like something I created when I use a module (go figure :D ) Do you think this type of setting would be fun for the players? (Note that I would probably end up restricting classes as a result of such extreme seclusion. Stores would be quite scarce, you would have to live with whatever you find. Probably end up putting additional strain on me to maintain balance, but oh well. Probably other factors). I think you are off to a good start. just don't try to do too much at once. keep things general untill you need it. here is a list of things that i think you should have ready before play. 1. the starting settelment that the players will go between adventures 2. the surounding area (20-50 miles) you dont have to have details yet but know what surounds the town 3. religion basics use the phb as a guide on how detailed the gods should be at start.(start with mabie 10-20 gods) 4. know what races are around and if you are going to have diferent cultures avalable later (don't flesh these out untill you are ready to use them) 5. any house rules you plan on using. 6. any charicter creation rules that deviate from the phb (if races are allowed or not any classes that will or will not be used equipment prices ect.) 7. note how plentiful magic is, also healing capabilityies and god activity 8. world cosmotology (# of moons ect) 9. make a calender and general history 10. anything else that interest you or your players good luck hope this helps
preacher of nothing 02-18-05, 02:40 AM	I've DMed off and on for a few years now, and the thing that keeps getting me is that I would love to have a really developed world/setting/whatever so that we can create a pretty in-depth story, but it's pretty overwhelming trying to create fleshed out areas and NPC's and everything else. Does anyone have any suggestions for this sort of problem? I've thought of one thing that I might give a try: The game will begin in an extremely isolated place, such as the Frozen Lands of the north or some such. The characters will be part of a small tribe (I'm thinking 20-100 people), so I will be able to know pretty much everything about the tribe. There will be a couple places of interest, but as it's pretty isolated, not too much "civilized" life has formed anything here, so mainly naturally occuring places of interest (and maybe some ancient, "civilized" ones... Perhaps a lich is actually hiding out somewhere around? A good high level challenge?). One of the "places" of interest, for example, would be the savage(r) orc tribe (Good for those low levels?) Another could be the lair of a fairly young white dragon (good mid level challenge?) I don't know how much of this should be known to the PC's and the tribe though. What do you think? I'm sure many of you have ran into this problem, how did you deal with it? Do you think this would be a good way to start? Some people say try running modules (is that what they're still called? Were they ever called that? I mean pre-made adventures...), I've tried it, and I have to say, I don't like it. It doesn't feel like something I created when I use a module (go figure :D ) Do you think this type of setting would be fun for the players? (Note that I would probably end up restricting classes as a result of such extreme seclusion. Stores would be quite scarce, you would have to live with whatever you find. Probably end up putting additional strain on me to maintain balance, but oh well. Probably other factors). Thanks for your help, any thoughts on this or anything else would be appreciated. You know, i tried that once. Created an entire world, with pantheons, States, civilizations, history, everything you would ever need. And i started off each character in a different part of the world. The fighter for example started in a southern country, that was 80% desert. It was a tribal nation, ruled generally by shamans and such. However, the shamans were getting a bit too powerful and, well, one of the plot hooks is that one of the stronger shamans goes crazy, tra la la. I did this because i wanted to try something different than the usual "Frozen North" style with leather and fur covered barbarians and fighters. These guys were something more like Persians in style of combat, dressing, etc. etc. Made for some good fun too till the players killed it for me :( (by killed it i mean ruined the entire fun of the campaign....). I'll probably make some adjustments and bring it back to life one day, but for now it's still a dream until i find the right players :(. ~preacher~
Ut-Napishtim 02-18-05, 02:59 AM	Personally I'd reccomend using a published setting if you're relatively inexperienced. There are several to choose from, and probably one or more will appeal to you. I think the idea of starting the players off in an isolated locale is a bad one. If they're in some small village or part of some savage tribe there's going to be a lot of stuff that's not available to them. I garauntee you your players will throw a wrench in there and probably not design their characters to suit such a backdrop. Rather than look for how they can make something that fits into this concept they'll most likely try to come up with something outside it - so that they can have an advantage over the NPC's and any PC's that go along with it as well. Rather than Barbarians and Rangers I'd expect to see a lot of full plate wearing, fullblade weilding Paladins, half-red-dragon Sorcerers, and savvy 'city slicker' Rogues. For most players the first thing that comes into their minds is not: How can I make a character that suits the DM's concept here? its: How can I make a character that will totally own all these rustic, snowbound simpletons? What a lot of folks do though is to only detail a small area where the PC's are starting, and then fill in the rest as they go along. This is a little different because the players will know that while they're starting out at 'podunk village' that there are many realms beyond it that they will soon be exploring and designing their character to maximize the podunk village angle will leave them flat when they go to the 'magnificent magocracy' or the 'ancient elf forest.' Then you can have a couple adventures or whatever at your start point, and then move things around as they party develops. Designing an entire campaign around one remote area pretty much garauntees your players will want some sort of exceptional character that comes from outside that area, and therefore is above it and immune to any stipulations it may carry with it. Using a published setting whether it Dragonlance, Forgotten Realms, or what-have-you carries the added benefit that many of the players will already have read some of the related literature, so it will be easy for you to convey tone and setting to them. You don't have to stop and explain who 'The Red Wizards of Thay' are - because they already know. All you have to do is let them know that one is up to something sinister outside Waterdeep, and the players will automatically be immersed and know exactly what you're talking about without you having to explain the history of Waterdeep or the Red Wizards, etc. In all honesty most home brewed campaign settings I've had the displeasure of playing in totally suck. They usually revolve around a laundry list of restrictions the DM has come up with for this 'wonderful new world' and a blank sheet when it comes to added benefits/races/classes for PC's. Most of these DM's just saw their custom backdrop as another tool for coercing players into what they wanted them to do because they lacked the storytelling ability to direct the game otherwise. I'm not saying that's what you or anyone else here is doing - just what my general experience has been.
Maniacal_Cackle 02-18-05, 11:52 AM	In all honesty most home brewed campaign settings I've had the displeasure of playing in totally suck. They usually revolve around a laundry list of restrictions the DM has come up with for this 'wonderful new world' and a blank sheet when it comes to added benefits/races/classes for PC's. Most of these DM's just saw their custom backdrop as another tool for coercing players into what they wanted them to do because they lacked the storytelling ability to direct the game otherwise. I'm not saying that's what you or anyone else here is doing - just what my general experience has been. I suppose I should have gone a bit more indepth about my players. Many of them are pushing for a great deal more role-playing/storyline. One of them is even for the idea of playing some sessions without any character sheets at all. And I've already run the idea by some of them, and they seem to kind of like the idea. So while I would have to agree with you that this would often frustrate players, I think it probably suits my group at this particular time. Thanks for pointing it out though! And thanks everyone else too! Edit: And the comment about not being a good enough storyteller to do another setting? Well, that's the premise of the first post, I don't think I am good enough (yet!) Edit2: And the comment about a long list of restrictions without any list of advantages is also an excellent point. I had not thought of that, and I will be sure to attempt to mitigate restrictions with advantages.