Post/Author/DateTime	Post
chuff80 06-01-07, 07:35 PM	I have an encounter idea that I want to work out, and I'd like a little bit of input. The party has been pulled into the realm of Faerie, and they are going to meet a powerful illusionist who likes to play games. He challenges the party to a game of chess, and then the party finds themselves on a virtual life-size chessboard. Each member of the party will be randomly placed as a chesspiece (taking the position of a pawn/rook/knight or whatever). The party then gets to pit their collective wit against the illusionist (me). I'm thinking that the regular chesspieces will interact like normal, knight takes piece X by moving to that square. To make it a little more interesting though, the party pieces get to fight for their squares if they're moved into, or if they move into an opposing piece. I was thinking of making pawns warriors of X level, knights as Knights or Fighters of X lvl, bishops clerics, rooks as barbarians, etc, etc. I don't want this to result in a TPK, or even to necessarily be overly-challenging. I just want a memorable encounter. Thoughts?
Malcaor 06-01-07, 08:39 PM	This is a good idea, and could eb really fun. To kep it from beign too complicated don't give any of the pieces magic powers. If you don't want to TPK then ahve the chess pieces deal non-lethal damage. If the PCs are all knocked unconcsious then they are imprisoned in the illusionists dungeon keep leading to another quest.
maragin 06-01-07, 08:40 PM	My immediate thoughts were of the difficulties that could arise: charm monster/ person grapple into a pin AE spells Summons Secondary/ casters/ distance fighters would be at a disadvantage. ------ I'm sure you could make a memorable encounter. If you know your group, and their probably tactics, you should be fine.
vader_rocks 06-01-07, 10:25 PM	How are you going to play out the encounter? Seems to me that the party elects the smartest person in the party to play a game of chess with the DM while the rest of the party takes a break for a few hours. They'll occasionally step in to kick a chess piece's butt, but for the most part it's going to be a one-on-one thing.
Kimokeo 06-01-07, 10:36 PM	My illusionist setup a similar situation with the group. They had the choice of being a tophat, a car, an iron, etc. and we broke out the game of monopoly and played for yours... Ok, no - we didn't. But, playing a game within a game that could take a long time turns the D&D adventure into a boardgame. I suggest something simplier - like the fox and the hounds. Four pieces trying to corner one. Develop combat rules so everyone is involved. Allow ranged attacks and melee when adjacent. The single opponent has the same advantages and disadvantages. Everyone must stay on the same colored squares. Deviations could be allowed (meaning: cheating) but there are serious consequences that will result. The players can only move forward (just like the boardgame). The enemy can move forward or back. Even if the opponent gets passed, he doesn't win - like in the game. He still has to get to the other side. Attempts to go backward are rewarded with punishment -just like the cheating attempts.
Thinker89 06-01-07, 10:40 PM	Vader kinda beat me to it but don't play it strictly as a chess game. That's probably the easiest way to get a total party kill in this. The pieces moving as chess pieces would be fine but make sure to leave something up to the characters themselves such as fighting for each square. When fighting for each square you don't want it to be a one on one to the death. That will take a long time with the other players being inactive and will only allow one character to take on the BBEG or whoever the king is made. Sorry I don't really have any suggestions on how to run it but those are some things you might want to look out for.
Eightbitmage 06-01-07, 10:46 PM	If you are willing to abandon making it a pure game I have an idea. Put the PCs (and only the PCs) against a bunch of giant chess piece enemies. Play it like a normal combat, but the chess pieces can only move as they could in the game, and can only attack people that way as well. So a rook for example could not attack anyone diagonal to him, but he could shoot an attack at anyone in a straight non-diagonal line. Just make it a very chess themed combat.
Thubby 06-01-07, 10:47 PM	might i suggest a card game instead? mtg would be an interestign idea if you guys play. rummy would work too. the oots board game would be an interesting, strange, and mind warping idea.
The Livewire 06-01-07, 10:49 PM	One idea is to use the chessboard game in Ghost Tower of Inverness. Another good one is here http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/dx20020121x8 Land Beyond the Magic Mirror has a chessboard.
Optimized_Commoner 06-01-07, 11:26 PM	Devil may Cry 3 (game for the playstation) had "chess games" in it. Instead of playing chess, there were a set of monsters based on chess pieces. For example the Rook could shoot laser beams in 4 directions, so you had to approach it from the corner to safely attack it. The pawn lept forwards in small jumps and attacked with its two swords in diagonal strokes. It was the most fun "chess game" I've played, since they were recognisably inspired by chess, but you didn't actually have to play the game. One of the hardest challenges in the game was attempting to fight an entire board of chess pieces at once. On their own the monsters were easy to kill, you just needed to attack them at the right angle, but trying to avoid the dangerous directions from all of the pieces while they're all moving around was a lot more difficult.
Pyro_Azer 06-01-07, 11:26 PM	How about assigning roles based on combat style (e.g. archers=bishops,tanks=rooks, ect) Cool idea though:ayyyy!:
Man in the Funny Hat 06-02-07, 01:05 AM	How are you going to play out the encounter? Seems to me that the party elects the smartest person in the party to play a game of chess with the DM while the rest of the party takes a break for a few hours. They'll occasionally step in to kick a chess piece's butt, but for the most part it's going to be a one-on-one thing.Not as such. First, it should not be a full-on game of chess. it should be in the nature of a "chess problem" - a partially developed game, the precise nature of which might best be dictated by the makeup of the party and what the DM decides to use to equate to the opposing pieces. Since the squares are all won in combat this adds a degree of strategy that the entire group can participate in, especially if the DM has a good variety of choices for the opposing pieces. In fact, the encounter would involve much less chess than in determining which PC takes on which opposing piece and why. For example, the party tank fighter might work best as the Queen, but then the party fighter is unlikely to be able to solo EVERYTHING on the board, especially if some pieces play to the fighters weaknesses, such as certain saves, or whatnot. Players would have to move their pieces with an eye towards elimination of the opposition IN COMBAT, but only one duel at a time, and without exposing themselves to excessive retaliatory attack. And, as an example think of a fighter and cleric working in combination. The fighter has to advance to fight another enemy piece, and then the party CLERIC has to be in an adjacent square to be able to cast heals unless he's going to be taking a turn as a game-piece in moving across the board to do so NEXT turn. It's an encounter that would require a few more rules as to what characters are allowed to do and when as part of the chess game, or in addition to what they do in the chess game. In fact, the Chess Game in and of itself is probably nothing more than an individual limitation on movement that is used for the rest of the encounter and chess tactics and gameplay would be otherwise meaningless.
Kradlo 06-02-07, 01:28 AM	Years ago at DunDraCon, my friend Scott Orman (GM extraordinaire) ran a D&D game. We descending into the undercity searching for the sword Kingslayer. We came across a huge chessboard, complete with life-sized pieces. One of the players stepped onto the board, and bam! He became the piece. My Dwarf Kradlo (the least powerful character in the group) did a Commune spell with his goddess, Bast (resulting in a consultation with Scott out in the hall), and discovered that the chessboard represented a battle between the forces of life (white) and death (black). Stepping onto the board means assuming the position and power of the piece. The knight had the power of a 20th level fighter, the bishop the power of a 20th level cleric, and so on. Somewhere on the board, with one of the pieces, was hidden the sword Kingslayer. If I took the power of the white bishop, I could bring up to three others back from the dead, provided that white won the game. If I died, I'd be the only one that could come back. Kill the opposing king, and the game would be over. If you were on the losing side, you were dead. Registration for the next day's games was due, so I had to run down to there to drop off my slip. I told the other players to wait for me. By the time I got back, all the major white pieces had been taken, leaving only pawns on the white side. I still had several questions remaining for my Commune spell, so I called Scott out into the hallway. I asked if I had to pick white, and was told no, I could pick black. I asked if I had to attack an opposing color, and was told no, I could attack my own side. My strategy formed, I entered the room and, without a word, took the place of the black king - and found Kingslayer in my hand. The other players' jaws hit the ground - they figured they were screwed. I smiled, watching them squirm. Served them right for not waiting. I let them stew a bit, and then made my move. I turned to the Black Queen beside me, and attacked. I didn't use the power of the black king, or the power of Kingslayer, but my own (much lesser) power, which barely made a dent in her. The black queen turned and blasted me with fire, leaving me reeling. I attacked again, giving her a minor ding. Her return blast finished me. The game was over, and white had won. Kradlo was resurrected by Bast - we could only bring back one, and one is all we lost. We'd recovered Kingslayer, and done it in the allotted time for the game. Power isn't everything. Cunning and adaptability matter far more.
chuff80 06-02-07, 02:30 AM	That's a great story Kradlo. Thanks for everyone's input. I'm running this session at 3 pm MT on Saturday, so I'm glad to get so many responses already. I think that I'll limit the players' movements and threatened squares to what their representative pieces would be. Characters who pick pawns will only be able to attack diagonally, etc. Also, they'll only be able to cast spells, etc on squares that their pieces can affect. I think I'll also limit damage to subdual damage - but not tell the party. If the party wins, then the Illusionist will show them the way out of the dungeon they are stuck in. If they lose, then they get to run some errands for the Illusionist and further the plot either way. Still not sure what level to make the pawns, etc. The party is levels 8 and 9. There's a druid 8, wizard5/loremaster 4, monk4/cleric2/sacred fist 2, warblade 8, warlock 8. I was thinking: Pawns - warrior 7 rooks - heavy armored fighter 7 bishop - cleric 7 knight - knight 7 queen - wizard 7 or a dragon king - ? I think these lvls would make appropriate challenges without totally overwhelming the party.
vader_rocks 06-02-07, 02:34 AM	Not as such. First, it should not be a full-on game of chess. it should be in the nature of a "chess problem" - a partially developed game, the precise nature of which might best be dictated by the makeup of the party and what the DM decides to use to equate to the opposing pieces. Since the squares are all won in combat this adds a degree of strategy that the entire group can participate in, especially if the DM has a good variety of choices for the opposing pieces. In fact, the encounter would involve much less chess than in determining which PC takes on which opposing piece and why. For example, the party tank fighter might work best as the Queen, but then the party fighter is unlikely to be able to solo EVERYTHING on the board, especially if some pieces play to the fighters weaknesses, such as certain saves, or whatnot. Players would have to move their pieces with an eye towards elimination of the opposition IN COMBAT, but only one duel at a time, and without exposing themselves to excessive retaliatory attack. And, as an example think of a fighter and cleric working in combination. The fighter has to advance to fight another enemy piece, and then the party CLERIC has to be in an adjacent square to be able to cast heals unless he's going to be taking a turn as a game-piece in moving across the board to do so NEXT turn. It's an encounter that would require a few more rules as to what characters are allowed to do and when as part of the chess game, or in addition to what they do in the chess game. In fact, the Chess Game in and of itself is probably nothing more than an individual limitation on movement that is used for the rest of the encounter and chess tactics and gameplay would be otherwise meaningless. Okay, I understand where you're coming from. But from the way I understand it, each PC is only in control of one piece (the piece they take the place of.) Who, then, controls the other pieces? Do they move of their own accord? Is one member of the group elected "Chessmaster," so to speak? I really like this idea, which is why I'm trying to get it right. Forgive me.
chuff80 06-02-07, 02:44 AM	One of my friends in the group is my chess buddy. I can almost guarantee that the party will elect him to make all of the moves for the other pieces in order to win the game. I'm going to use the idea of a game that's already in progress. Should be fun.
Optimized_Commoner 06-02-07, 02:55 AM	I'm just going to state that I don't think any game or puzzle which involves you playing chess in game is a good idea for a D&D game. Of course you know yourself and your group better than I do, so I'll assume you have good reasons by this idea. Just personally, I wouldn't do it.
vader_rocks 06-02-07, 03:02 AM	I'm just going to state that I don't think any game or puzzle which involves you playing chess in game is a good idea for a D&D game. Of course you know yourself and your group better than I do, so I'll assume you have good reasons by this idea. Just personally, I wouldn't do it. Why not?
Optimized_Commoner 06-02-07, 03:11 AM	Why not? My main reasons 1) It's getting a bit cliched. 2) It seems like an Earth thing more than a fantasy thing. 3) Relies more on the players than the characters. 4) Tends to mostly involve 1 person. 5) Doesn't make much sense to put in 99% of dungeons. 6) It's another game. Why not just play chess instead?
Whisper_Swiftblade 06-02-07, 10:02 AM	1) are any of your party any good at chess 9so that they could defend themselves), or will you just have the PC with the highest apporopet stat roll to make desitions. 2) where do the individual fights take place? I think it would be easyer to have the combatants on a platform above the board and after the fight the winner magicly returns. 3) How are the players stoped from moving diagnoly even thow the peice the represent can not, or why can't they make an AoE when the rook is rushing by, or teleport next to a king, or most importantly just shoot spells and arrows at the illutionist? Even my admitedly weak DM sences are telling me something like this will come up.
navar100 06-02-07, 10:10 AM	Since the opponent is an "illusionist", don't worry about TPK. Carry out the combat as normal. If a PC dies, he dies. Once the game is over, everyone is back at full health, no loss of level, never having really "died". The game utilized illusions. It's not your fault if during the chess game the players forget he's an illusionist. ;)
The Livewire 06-02-07, 12:53 PM	My main reasons 1) It's getting a bit cliched. 2) It seems like an Earth thing more than a fantasy thing. 6) It's another game. Why not just play chess instead? just wanted to hit these points... 1)Seems to me chess is a dying skill. I was hoping the Larry Gardner :) books would revive it a bit. 2) What about Sava? Jetan (http://www.erblist.com/abg/jetan.html)? Dragonchess? Tridimensional chess? (http://my.ohio.voyager.net/~abartmes/tactical.htm) (you can turn the music off on the last, and he's in Ohio, cool). The advantage of Chess is that everyone has at least heard of it. 6) For the same reason we play D&D to begin with, it's something different to mix it up. "I'd let you watch, I would invite you But the queens we use, would not excite you."
Arcomage 06-02-07, 06:16 PM	My main personal problem with doing this is that the Wizard / Loremaster in your party is going to hate you. This kind of combat negates all his options for movement, crowd control and ranged combat. Furthermore, unless you're being very loose with the movement restrictions (which will create problems in turn) he will be completely unable to avoid being squashed by the first Knight who happens to come by his square. Unless he's a full-on blaster type (unlikely for a Loremaster), this basically reduces him to a Fighter with poor BAB, a d4 Hit Die and no bonus feats. Consider having him (and possibly the Warlock, too) take another role - commanding pieces like the King and Queen (with their own special powers) perhaps. Again, I must stress that this depends on what your players have been doing, but to my experience few things suck more than building a character with lots of options to avoid a specific circumstance (say, melee combat) and then effectively being told "Nope, doesn't work, you're going to do it like this anyway."
Link_L.O.Z._Warrior 06-02-07, 07:59 PM	5 words: The first harry potter book If you've ever read it then you'll remember the chess game at the end. You could make it like that. --- Or You could make it traditional combat, but with restricting all spells to touch spells and making it so that characters are magically forced to move as the piece they represent would. Also have no ranged attacks (arrows can only reach 5 ft) Raise the enemies initiative so that it turns out that the turns change like in a regular chess game, and have every other piece other than the PCs be high level warriors appropriate for the CR. (remember that the level of the NPCs on the PC side will be helping the PCs as well, so a high CR would be necessary) And there you have it.
Voxaminer 06-02-07, 09:11 PM	Chess combats aren't a new idea but there are many different ways of handling them, hence the fun. I'll just offer a few related ideas: You can get books of chess puzzles where you get 1 or two moves to win the game, these would be great for a riddle or scenario if you don't wanna make your players play out a whole game of chess. Try moving chess elements into the dungeon, I once has a checkerboard corridor filled with statues of knights, clerics, castles, and footsoldiers each representing chess pieces. Check out the encounter below: 17) Chess puzzle CR 8 You find a minute catch near the ceiling, pulling on it the wall slides into the floor. Beyond it a long well lit hallway, stretches before you. The hallway is populated by a variety of obsidian statues each centered on a tile. Most of these appear to be elven footmen. Other statues include horsemen, and clerics. Partway down the hall on the left side is a large stone pillar about six feet high. A similar pillar is visible over a throng of elven footmen at the far end of the hall on the right side. There are three large iron doors on the right side of the hallway. (These doors are similar to the ones in the bugbears’ chambers.) By this time the checkerboard pattern is commonplace in the dungeon and thus is omitted from the description text. Each statue represents a game piece, specifically a chess piece. The hallway contains eight footmen (pawns), two horsemen (knights), two clerics (Bishops), and two pillars (rooks or castles) the facing of the pieces is oriented towards the secret door the party entered from. Note each tile is three feet in length and width characters cannot share spaces as they may normally. The statues are virtually indestructible (hardness 20 HP 100 each) They are immune to all spells short of wish and disintegrate and if destroyed reform at sunrise the next day. Each chess piece threatens an area as it would in chess, those entering the area suffer a trap like effect after the effect is resolved the creature is forced back onto the tile it occupied previously through a telekinesis spell. Unlike chess the pieces do not move, nor can they be moved as they are anchored to the ground. The effects of each piece (including flavor text)are as follows: Footman/Pawn +24 to hit 1d10+4 damage (this is equivalent to a halberd attack By a lvl 20 warrior with 18 strength) “You hear the sound of an elven battle cry” Horseman/Knight +24 to hit 2d8+8 damage ” (this is equivalent to a mounted charge by a lvl 20 warrior with 18 strength) “You hear galloping hooves Cleric/Bishop 9d6 damage (reflex save DC 15 for half) (this is equivalent to a flamestrike spell cast by a lvl 7 cleric with 18 wisdom) “You hear the spell being cast” (Spellcraft check DC 20 to Identify the spell as flamestrike) Pillar/Rook +20 to hit 5d6 damage (This is equivalent to a direct hit by a siege catapult) “You hear a loud creak and a dull thud” (knowledge (tactics) check DC 12 to identify this sound as the sound of a catapult firing) Each statue glows while it attacks, Multiple statues may attack simultaneously yet each statue can only attack a single character in a round. I Just wish I could Find the Map for this encounter.
vader_rocks 06-03-07, 04:49 AM	5 words: The first harry potter book If you've ever read it then you'll remember the chess game at the end. You could make it like that. But that still leaves the problem of one person controlling the game. If you remember, Ron basically ran the whole game, with Harry and Hermione doing what he said.
Draginja 06-03-07, 10:44 AM	The problem I see is that you assume it's going to be one enemy player vs four or more PC's. Perhaps a party of recurring villians (Linear Guild) was roped into playing against you. Then combat is like normal chess, but with more players. Or, if you don't care to follow all the rules, the monsters are all just large automatons that have strange ways of moving and attacking. The players, on the other hand, do not. The wizards wants to fireball a small group pf pawns? Let her do so. The fighter wants to jump in the middle of a group of pieces and whirlwind attack? He took that feat for a reason you know. It all just depends on how strictly your players must adhere to the rules. I personally would have a fun time with my second scenario...
chuff80 06-03-07, 12:18 PM	I ran this encounter yesterday and it was moderatly successful. We didn't have as much time for it as I had hoped as they spent too long fighting the Jermlain Gremlins (MMII) in the dungeon (CR 1/2 creatures with lots of traps...it was ridiculous, and a lot of fun - if you want to frustrate your players and make them feel really impotent, play these guys, or some kobolds). Anyway, I digress. The encounter went well. Probably better than it would have if I hadn't had to shorten it. It sped along fast enough that it didn't start making everyone bored. It was set up like I mentioned before, with the pawns as lvl 5 warriors, knights as lvl 6 knights, and bishops as lvl 7 clerics, rooks as lvl 7 fighters, and the queen as a level 10 wizardess. My friend who is a chess genius ran the pieces for the party and used the Warblade to smash through most of the tough pieces (he totally wiped the floor with the knight and the queen) and then used the Loremaster (who polymorphed into a cryohydra) to take out the king. Good encounter, but it was definitely a one-time thing.
DyloniusFunk 06-03-07, 06:56 PM	A couple of idead that i had 1. Instead of Chess use the game Conqueror from the Eberron setting. The rules aren't lsited, it's basically an opposed ability check. But that gives you leeway to essentially make your own game and not give advantage to anyone who might eb a good chess player. Because you may have a great chess player in your group but if he's playing a 10 int barbarian it would seem to me to be metagaming. An 18 int Wizard on the other hand is different. Also have you established that chess exists in your world? WOuld the PC's have had a chance to see it being played, say at a tavern or maybe when visitng the king after completing a mission 2. Do you remember the scene from Harry Potter and The Sorcerer's Stone when the Trio has to take part in a game of chess against giant pieces to continue on their mission? Take that idea and expand upon it. When they enter the room slam down the door and have a mysterious voice call out something like "I've been waiting for you. Take your place and let the game begin" There will be several open spaces but only certain classes can enter certain ones. Bishop space for pure casters, knight for melee, and rook for range since the players probably wouldn't find it fun to be a pawn. Then have them play but this way the PCs have to work togetehr and know thier own restrictions in movement.
Geraturatu 06-03-07, 07:27 PM	Just have all of the enemies specially made to have 1 hp , 1 AC, and such a high attack and damage that they instantly kill any characters. Also, have walls of force surround the character until it's his turn, and have the walls of force change shape to match the pieces movement, with the wall of force closing behind them. Each piece (and player) will decide their own movements, and limit talking to only when it's their turn with a giant, short termed, renewable silence spell. To decide which piece moves during that round, have them discuss it. Of course, any cocky players that move before everyone else on his side has voted who will move this round will hurt his side certainly, but won't be able to make this mistake. hope I helped!
The Livewire 06-03-07, 10:04 PM	The encounter went well. Probably better than it would have if I hadn't had to shorten it. It sped along fast enough that it didn't start making everyone bored. It was set up like I mentioned before, with the pawns as lvl 5 warriors, knights as lvl 6 knights, and bishops as lvl 7 clerics, rooks as lvl 7 fighters, and the queen as a level 10 wizardess. My friend who is a chess genius ran the pieces for the party and used the Warblade to smash through most of the tough pieces (he totally wiped the floor with the knight and the queen) and then used the Loremaster (who polymorphed into a cryohydra) to take out the king. Good encounter, but it was definitely a one-time thing. Glad it worked out. Thanks for updating us