Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Torgrim 02-22-06, 05:31 AM	I have been DM'ing for the better part of 12 years now. My experience in running 3e or 3.5 games have always been mired with numerous resources (about every book under the sun). Recently, both myself and my players have decided to play the game using only the core material (although I will pull a monster from another resource from time to time). We've gone through a few sessions and everyone is having a blast. I must say this is the most fun I have had running a game in some time. All that aside, I do have a couple of questions. A couple of my players are starting to ask about using spells and feats from other resources, they think that the characters will eventually run out of options with the core material. Do any of you core-only guys allow a feat or spell or two from other books? If so, what books? Second, while core-only is very fun I can see it being a bit limiting. I plan on continuing to run core-only games, but I wonder, how do you keep things fresh for your players? Any helpful responses would be greatly appreciated. :eek:
Cantankerous 02-22-06, 05:50 AM	I have a few outside resources I let in, but it's really limited and utterly limited to material I know well. I can tell you though... you don't need it at all. You can run this game core only for decades and not begin to exhaust it's possibilities. The non-Core stuff doesn't add anything needed, it simply throws in the occasional new idea and usually tons of new problems to go with them. Splatbooks are the bane of this game, for the most part, and even the "core Splatbooks" like the BoVD and BoED have to be CAREFULLY looked at for their ramifications on the balance of a game. Read just the "Leaflets of Triel" to see how many munchkin alerts there are concerning the BoVD... and IMO, it's less munchy than the BoED. I'd show you what I've got, so far, for the upcoming campaign to follow our present campaign, but the document is more than 17 single spaced typed pages so far, so it's MUCH too large to post here. It's Core plus some things from the UA, a few from the BoVD, the Complete Divine and a few other similiar sources, plus my own house rules, all annotated and prepared for the Players use. They get to add to it or subtract from it (with my input) before the campaign starts but to this point, I've only had a few additions. Trying a few variations on the basic theme, without even adding anything beyond Core, will provide plenty of novelty. Try running a game without instant healing magics some time. It's one of the innovations we've got up coming. The Healing spells are still there, but they only HUGELY increase natural healing rates. For instance, a third level Cure Serious Wounds spell cast by a 5th level Cleric still does 3d8+5 points of healing, but now, in this variant, it's spread over a period of 3 hours. THIS by itself is going to have a HUGE impact on the game and will change it drasticly and profoundly for everyone involved, PC and NPC alike, and this could be done as easily without including any non-Core resources at all. Isshia
Yaeri 02-22-06, 05:51 AM	You'll either have to say yes or nay. Important things to keep in mind are: -There's no problem playing core only. There's plenty of options. I can't see it getting boring if it's the first time you're playing. However when your players are playing the same core class for the seventh time, battling orcs once again, you might need extra material. -Extra things that are allowed should be balanced for all players. If the warrior finds dozens of feats in complete warrior and wants to use those, and you allow the whole book, he will get an advantage over others. You'd have to see to it that everyone gets about an equal amount of extra options (except if they don't care about that) -Most non-core stuff can be filled in by the DM. If a player wants a certain spell that's not in the core books, you could have him/her research it as per the DMG rules. If a player wants to learn a special combat technique not in the core books, you could try to create your own feat with prerequisites. Create your world's own prestige classes based on the quidelines of the DMG. All those existing PRC's won't fit in with your own world's flavor anyway. PS: There's also tons of custom material that's being created and balanced out on the boards every day. All stuff your players probably don't know about, as there's no book for them to have read it in, and thus it'll be more surprising. ;)
WCH 02-22-06, 05:52 AM	If you allowed that, what would be the point? "Oh, it's core only. But you can use non-core feats and spells, and expect to see non-core monsters, too." At that point, what aren't you allowing, aside from prestige classes? I definitely see the charm in using less rules... but should be consistant about it. Personally, I'm a fan of Core + Complete, with selective banning as needed (no Frenzied Berserker, no Ur Priest/Mystic Theurge cheese, etc). The Complete books give you the wealth of Prestige Classes that's so badly missing from the core rules... the DMG's PrC options are pitifully limited, but with Complete you can make many different character concepts come to life much more exactly. The stupidity of allowing all sources really only comes in when you have bizarre combinations of stuff. A base class from one supplement, PrCs from two others and feats from a fourth... ending up with characters that get both confusing and annoying to keep track of, as well as very overpowered if made right. If you only allow a couple supplements, you get around the silliness while still allowing for plenty of options. Complete Cycle provide that amply.
dungeonmasterblog 02-22-06, 06:48 AM	Whenever I'm running some new players through a game, I always just stick to the core. In fact usually, the only thing I use the supplemental material is to add some spice to my NPC's. And like everyone is saying, you can run players through 20th level without needing a thing outside of the core rules. Dungeon Master http://www.dungeonsdragonsblog.com
Blakey 02-22-06, 08:03 AM	Been running Core only since v3.5 came out after the total mess that v3.0 ended up in when we bought all the splat books. So what's that? 3 years plus some? And we play at least once per week, every week. We've never had any issues with not enough variety of options for characters. When I DM I will occasionally throw in a non core spell on a scroll or a non core magical item. Equally I will throw in the odd magical tome which teaches a non core feat every so often. My players know that if they approach me with a new feat, spell or item they would like, I will likely ban it out of hand. But they also expect me to throw in these odd little gems to keep things interesting and fresh. I have developed a bunch of PrCs for my homebrew world which represent organizations and specific training which PCs can attend. IMHO this is what PrCs were designed for, not as "advanced" classes into which anyone with the requisites can freely multiclass. I always use these PrCs in the campaigns I DM and allow PCs who are interested to try and join the organizations. Finally, I try and throw in quite a lot of non core monsters. This is great as it keeps the players guessing as to the monster's powers which makes playing fun. The bottom line for me is this: keep everything the players can use and choose Core. Occasionally throw them some small non Core stuff to keep things interesting. However monsters and NPCs can use non Core classes/races etc at will - as a monster or NPC is always a temporary addition to the campaign, they never upset the balance. Cheers Blakey