A couple of small things [Archive] - Wizards Community

A couple of small things [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Sarella Starshine
01-01-07, 11:31 AM First one: Since the characters in my game are going to have extensive contact with members of the seelie court, I plan on giving them an ability called Blessing of the Seelie. The blessing would grant 1d6 to any attribute for 10 minutes 1/day. I am stuck on what would the Unseelie court give the people that they work with that would be different, yet balanced to the Blessing.

Second: I have managed to hash out a side plot that involves Vindex and Hans (mentioned in this (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=760131) thread). The plot being Hans is the key to opening a portal from hell to the material plane which requires the spilling of Hans' blood, but only after his fiendish heratige is realized. I was looking through my UA at the bloodlines and was thinking that part of his training with Vindex would involve unlocking this fiendish heratige resulting in the half-fiend template (at which time his full fiendish heratige is realized, Vindex or another higher level devil will sacrifice Hans and the portal will open unleashing hell). I am wondering if the bloodline stuff precludes the half-fiend template (meaning that he can't have the template because of the bloodline).
Shatteredtower
01-01-07, 04:43 PM The Seelie boon is roughly the equivalent of a 2nd level spell -- well, one of six 2nd level spells, but the player only gets one per day, not all six -- as though cast by a 10th level caster (or a 5th level caster casting an extended version of the spell). This suggests that one possible means of selecting a balanced Unseelie gift is to pick another 2nd level spell cast as a 10th level caster, or possibly 3rd level spell as a 5th level caster.

Obviously, not every spell is a good choice. Perhaps a good question to ask is what school of magic might seem best suited to the Unseelie. You've used the equivalent of a transmutation effect for the Seelie, but if you want a different one for the Unseelie, you might find few of the other choices feel right, depending on the flavour you're going for (assuming flavour matters to you). Alter self as a 10th level caster once per day sounds like it could be a reasonable choice, for instance.

A power that targets the beneficiary seems to be in order as well, rather than something one can deliver by touch, though some exceptions could be reasonable, such as in the case of minor conjuration spells of the [summoning] or [creation] school.

As for the question of the template and the bloodline, that's up to you. I'd say that one precludes the other, but I'd allow one to upgrade from one to the other after certain conditions are fulfilled. This would be easier if a bloodline didn't give any benefits that weren't covered by the template, but unfortunately, they do. You'll have to decide if those extra benefits (skill modifiers, mainly) are lost or if you'll allow them to be retained in the transition. Perhaps the additional benefits come chiefly from the reputation you've built, in which case you could just let them be (or treat them as additional treasure, though this would be a complicated judgment call). Or you may feel that the reputation benefits only applied while the character was wavering on the border, giving them a degree of novelty that called out to something in fiends, whereas now that your character has "picked a side", the novelty factor has worn off. It's not that much to sacrifice for what's gained by that time, I'd suspect.

In summary, the books don't really cover the issue, so you have to decide if you want to make them stack or find a way to switch from one to the other, whether any abilities of the bloodline are later retained or not. My recommendation is to devise means for switching from bloodline to template, but there's no reason you can't place one on top of the other if you wish, so long as it's fair to the other players.
GoriceXII
01-01-07, 05:12 PM I'd suggest something perhaps like charm monster or something equally deceptive. Make it only work on creatures that would be either friendly to the Unseelie or else people who are being seduced or urged to betrayal.
Sarella Starshine
01-01-07, 06:41 PM I do like the charm idea, as it does fit in nicely with thier MO (charm someone to do the dirty work for them). Also the alter self is also another great idea. Depending on what they specialize in (an infiletrator for the Unseelie would get better benefit from alter self while an instigator would like the charm instead) i they can choose which one they want, but once the choice is made, they cannot change the choice.

Well going through the bloodlines listed for devil, I don't think it would be all that overpowering for at least the minor or the intermediate one to stack woth the half-fiend template, but the major might be.
Farmer_Tom_Cotton
01-02-07, 12:25 AM first: I would make any sort of "Blessing" from either court cost something. Seelie would require giving up something like can't touch silver or whatever. Unseelie would require favors to the beings granting the power. A "first born child" seems appropirate.
Second: not familiar with the UA but I use the stronger of two rules win idea. If 2 rules overlap/contridict choose the stronger one.
Sarella Starshine
01-02-07, 10:41 AM first: I would make any sort of "Blessing" from either court cost something. Seelie would require giving up something like can't touch silver or whatever. Unseelie would require favors to the beings granting the power. A "first born child" seems appropirate.
Second: not familiar with the UA but I use the stronger of two rules win idea. If 2 rules overlap/contridict choose the stronger one.

Well, it would be in the nature of the unseelie to demand a 'sacrifice' for thier 'blessing', but the seelie would prob demand something more along the lines of being at thier beck and call for a set period of time (like a few years or such).

here are the benefits of the devil bloodline: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/bloodlines.htm#devil (click here). As one can see, they are different from the benefits of the half-fiend template. Its debatable which one is 'stronger', hince the question. If one was noticably stronger than the other, I would not have asked :).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Sarella Starshine 01-01-07, 11:31 AM	First one: Since the characters in my game are going to have extensive contact with members of the seelie court, I plan on giving them an ability called Blessing of the Seelie. The blessing would grant 1d6 to any attribute for 10 minutes 1/day. I am stuck on what would the Unseelie court give the people that they work with that would be different, yet balanced to the Blessing. Second: I have managed to hash out a side plot that involves Vindex and Hans (mentioned in this (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=760131) thread). The plot being Hans is the key to opening a portal from hell to the material plane which requires the spilling of Hans' blood, but only after his fiendish heratige is realized. I was looking through my UA at the bloodlines and was thinking that part of his training with Vindex would involve unlocking this fiendish heratige resulting in the half-fiend template (at which time his full fiendish heratige is realized, Vindex or another higher level devil will sacrifice Hans and the portal will open unleashing hell). I am wondering if the bloodline stuff precludes the half-fiend template (meaning that he can't have the template because of the bloodline).
Shatteredtower 01-01-07, 04:43 PM	The Seelie boon is roughly the equivalent of a 2nd level spell -- well, one of six 2nd level spells, but the player only gets one per day, not all six -- as though cast by a 10th level caster (or a 5th level caster casting an extended version of the spell). This suggests that one possible means of selecting a balanced Unseelie gift is to pick another 2nd level spell cast as a 10th level caster, or possibly 3rd level spell as a 5th level caster. Obviously, not every spell is a good choice. Perhaps a good question to ask is what school of magic might seem best suited to the Unseelie. You've used the equivalent of a transmutation effect for the Seelie, but if you want a different one for the Unseelie, you might find few of the other choices feel right, depending on the flavour you're going for (assuming flavour matters to you). Alter self as a 10th level caster once per day sounds like it could be a reasonable choice, for instance. A power that targets the beneficiary seems to be in order as well, rather than something one can deliver by touch, though some exceptions could be reasonable, such as in the case of minor conjuration spells of the [summoning] or [creation] school. As for the question of the template and the bloodline, that's up to you. I'd say that one precludes the other, but I'd allow one to upgrade from one to the other after certain conditions are fulfilled. This would be easier if a bloodline didn't give any benefits that weren't covered by the template, but unfortunately, they do. You'll have to decide if those extra benefits (skill modifiers, mainly) are lost or if you'll allow them to be retained in the transition. Perhaps the additional benefits come chiefly from the reputation you've built, in which case you could just let them be (or treat them as additional treasure, though this would be a complicated judgment call). Or you may feel that the reputation benefits only applied while the character was wavering on the border, giving them a degree of novelty that called out to something in fiends, whereas now that your character has "picked a side", the novelty factor has worn off. It's not that much to sacrifice for what's gained by that time, I'd suspect. In summary, the books don't really cover the issue, so you have to decide if you want to make them stack or find a way to switch from one to the other, whether any abilities of the bloodline are later retained or not. My recommendation is to devise means for switching from bloodline to template, but there's no reason you can't place one on top of the other if you wish, so long as it's fair to the other players.
GoriceXII 01-01-07, 05:12 PM	I'd suggest something perhaps like charm monster or something equally deceptive. Make it only work on creatures that would be either friendly to the Unseelie or else people who are being seduced or urged to betrayal.
Sarella Starshine 01-01-07, 06:41 PM	I do like the charm idea, as it does fit in nicely with thier MO (charm someone to do the dirty work for them). Also the alter self is also another great idea. Depending on what they specialize in (an infiletrator for the Unseelie would get better benefit from alter self while an instigator would like the charm instead) i they can choose which one they want, but once the choice is made, they cannot change the choice. Well going through the bloodlines listed for devil, I don't think it would be all that overpowering for at least the minor or the intermediate one to stack woth the half-fiend template, but the major might be.
Farmer_Tom_Cotton 01-02-07, 12:25 AM	first: I would make any sort of "Blessing" from either court cost something. Seelie would require giving up something like can't touch silver or whatever. Unseelie would require favors to the beings granting the power. A "first born child" seems appropirate. Second: not familiar with the UA but I use the stronger of two rules win idea. If 2 rules overlap/contridict choose the stronger one.
Sarella Starshine 01-02-07, 10:41 AM	first: I would make any sort of "Blessing" from either court cost something. Seelie would require giving up something like can't touch silver or whatever. Unseelie would require favors to the beings granting the power. A "first born child" seems appropirate. Second: not familiar with the UA but I use the stronger of two rules win idea. If 2 rules overlap/contridict choose the stronger one. Well, it would be in the nature of the unseelie to demand a 'sacrifice' for thier 'blessing', but the seelie would prob demand something more along the lines of being at thier beck and call for a set period of time (like a few years or such). here are the benefits of the devil bloodline: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/bloodlines.htm#devil (click here). As one can see, they are different from the benefits of the half-fiend template. Its debatable which one is 'stronger', hince the question. If one was noticably stronger than the other, I would not have asked :).