Post/Author/DateTime	Post
NathanForce 04-18-05, 03:24 AM	First of all, its great that this board exists. Its highly valuable to me and my group. I had a question that I am hoping you would consider answering as it has perplexed me for a long time. I have been playing D and D since 1997. I still remember my first campaign and the 2nd edition version of the game with THAC0 and all that lovely stuff. I have alot of fond memories. I have always been a creative player. Some DMs and PCs like my style, while a considerable amount have not. I don't always use the obvious solution. Since this is a place populated by knowledgeable DMs I figured I would pose the question of how annoying or postive the below actions I have taken over the years are in your opinion: 1. Had to fight rats. Was level one. Coated rats in oil and used torch to set them abaze. 2. Was playing a chaotic evil character in a small valley village. Poured acid on the face of highly attractive and important female cleric by sneaking on the roof of her flat, etching a hole in her roof, and empting vial from that point. Killed her. Took her body and crucified it on the pass that lead into town, so that the rising sun would illuminate her corspe for all to see. Took a cart loaded with barrels of oil and alchamists fire, parked it outside of a the town's local cult's facility and used a time delay fuse to set it off, destroying the facility and half of a nearby building. Explosion set bystands ablaze. 3. As a LG char my group was being attacked by a horde of goblins. I cut down a tree and allowed it to fall on the goblins, killing most of them, thus saving my group. (DM allowed this, and I saved the day) 4. And finally...summonded a clestrial porpise to ram a boat in a harbor causing the boat to sink, the treasure to sink, taking the enemies and one PC with it. The PC lived, the tresure was lost. I've always enjoyed not always taking the obvious path out of a situation. This is not to say that I always use creative fighting or problem solving. Sometimes I do take the obvious hack and slash route. I like to find innovative solutions that help my goals, and in most cases, my group's goals. Still sometimes I feel under attack for my ways, not in all cases, but in enough to concern me. Is my style of playing welcome in your campaign, and if your feel really generous, how would you have responded to each of the above four situations. Thanks, a very appriciative gamer
High Octane 04-18-05, 03:37 AM	1. Nice. 2. Why? Just to be evil? Thats never a good reason. 3. Cut down a tree in a round? How? And how did you make it fall in such a precise manner? 4. Although Im sure you had a good reason for sinking the boat and that was both creative and effective, that must have been annoying. Not for the DM, but for the other characters who wanted the treasure. Way to be creative and think outside the dice. We need more players like you. But try to keep your ideas practical, meaning they actually could work.
NathanForce 04-18-05, 03:42 AM	Thanks. When it comes to the village evilness the plot of the campaign involved an evil cult in town. My chaotic evil char hated the evil NPCs from the cult and teamed up with some good chars who just plain hated all evil (I must have been the lessor of the two sects) to rid the village of the evil cultists. I displayed the cleric's disfigured body in an attempt to demoralize the other cultists into leaving or giving up. As for the free, I believe if I recall right, I snuck over to the base of the tree, which was large but not massive, made some really good die rolls, and was able to direct it in the proper direction. This took more than one round. While I'm on the subject, I've wondered for awhile if this idea would work: When fighting a large group of weak minded creatures like kobolds or goblins, could one cause the rest to flee by torturing one of their kin so its terrible cries surrounds the battlefield?
TheChilliGod 04-18-05, 04:01 AM	So I'm not the only one! In an encounter, I decided to climb the wall of a hill which had a cave, hang over the cave rim and shoot crossbow bolts to goblins. (all because the melee fighters were in the way if I shot from the ground) Of course, I failed my climb check and fell off. And I come up with interesting IG conversations ("SoOOry for not seeing that trap! But you're so thin you wouldn't have fallen for it anyway!", girl I was talking to slapped me after that) Hey, In my opinion, creativity is what really makes games interesting and memorable. Nobody remembers a hack'n'slash encounter, but loads will remember that time you threw rocks covered in salt water at an ochre jelly just because you thought they'd react to salt like a snail. They laugh at that. Be comic relief. Be the one that shoots an ogre five times as he's peeking out of a tower window while you're falling down a rope from that window by your feet. It's cool, it's funny, and I don't know a good DM that doesn't approve of creativity.
Ut-Napishtim 04-18-05, 04:03 AM	First of all, its great that this board exists. Its highly valuable to me and my group. I had a question that I am hoping you would consider answering as it has perplexed me for a long time. I have been playing D and D since 1997. I still remember my first campaign and the 2nd edition version of the game with THAC0 and all that lovely stuff. I have alot of fond memories. I have always been a creative player. Some DMs and PCs like my style, while a considerable amount have not. I don't always use the obvious solution. Since this is a place populated by knowledgeable DMs I figured I would pose the question of how annoying or postive the below actions I have taken over the years are in your opinion: Okay, throughout this whole part I'm thinking to myself: So are you going to actually ask a question, or tell us your life story? 1. Had to fight rats. Was level one. Coated rats in oil and used torch to set them abaze. Seems fair enough to me. It would take two rounds: ready oil, toss oil, ready torch, light fire. Both would be touch attacks, but if you roll a 1 you're looking at a DC 10 Dexterity check to avoid setting yourself on fire instead. 2. Was playing a chaotic evil character in a small valley village. Poured acid on the face of highly attractive and important female cleric by sneaking on the roof of her flat, etching a hole in her roof, and empting vial from that point. Killed her. Took her body and crucified it on the pass that lead into town, so that the rising sun would illuminate her corspe for all to see. Took a cart loaded with barrels of oil and alchamists fire, parked it outside of a the town's local cult's facility and used a time delay fuse to set it off, destroying the facility and half of a nearby building. Explosion set bystands ablaze. Seek proffesional help, those misogynist tendencies most likely developed from some sort of trauma during the Oedipal Stage. 3. As a LG char my group was being attacked by a horde of goblins. I cut down a tree and allowed it to fall on the goblins, killing most of them, thus saving my group. (DM allowed this, and I saved the day) Hmmm... well chopping down any sort of tree that could actually crush a bunch of Goblins would require about eight man-hours of labor using medieval implements. Providing a party of four all had axes or saws they could do it in around two hours. Not really much of a combat option. Now if you have a Dwarven Axe of Mighty Oak Hewing or a Large Earth Elemental to knock it down that be a different story. 4. And finally...summonded a clestrial porpise to ram a boat in a harbor causing the boat to sink, the treasure to sink, taking the enemies and one PC with it. The PC lived, the tresure was lost. Was it a rowboat? I mean, a porpoise isn't really the mightiest creature of the deep, and actual ship hulls have to be pretty thick. Not a lot of leverage in the water either. Of course if the spell was an Extended version cast at 10th level that'd give you two minutes of duration, so you'd probably see some cracks forming after that time. Of course, once folks noticed the ship was going down any crew could patch the hole or abandon the ship with plenty of time if it wasn't patchable.
NathanForce 04-18-05, 04:12 AM	It was a skiff. Thin hulled. We worked out the speed of the creature, it had a running start, and it slammed into the bottom of the vessel at this speed, causing it to overturn, which in turn sank the treasure and the foe who was wearing heavy armor.
Kaligrad 04-18-05, 04:23 AM	No treasure in the sea is lost if you've got potions of waterbreathing! Seriously though, good ideas, but it seems like your DM was especially lenient. No tree thick enough to crush a horde of goblins could be hewn in less than an hour of solid work, especially if you were using anything but an axe. Oh, and controlling which way it landed is more of a Profession: Logger check than anything else. Sound idea, but unrealistic execution. As for the CE character, that's pretty sound, if gruesome. Oh, and exactly how sleepy was that cleric that she didn't notice the acid charring away her face before it hit something vital? Especially since, as a cleric, as soon as she woke up she could have cast cure minor wounds to stop the acid's effect.
NathanForce 04-18-05, 04:32 AM	After the acid was poured I entered her flat through the window and killed her, cutting her up so that her body would look really disgusting when hoisted above town.
Uberman 04-19-05, 08:10 AM	After the acid was poured I entered her flat through the window and killed her, cutting her up so that her body would look really disgusting when hoisted above town. Dude, that's gruesome! way to go. Ooopss.. gotta remember, Just b/c I DM lots of Vile NPCs doesn't mean I have to ALWAYS think like them....
d00m_b4b00n 04-19-05, 08:40 AM	As for torturing Kolbolds etc that can backfire. Sure the little buggers will be scared by the noises and individually less inclined to fight. But any leader of theirs could use it to quash any ideas of fleeing, "Leader: Listen to what they're doing to Steve! If we bug out don't you think they'll follow us? Someone like that isn't going to settle for just one of us! Whose going to be next eh? Will it be you Henry, with all your talk of running? I say we get our act together and get these bastards before they get us! Kobolds: For Steve! Chaaaaarge!"
SneakyPetey 04-19-05, 09:30 AM	Since this is a place populated by knowledgeable DMs You're making some dangerous assumptions already... ;) I figured I would pose the question of how annoying or postive the below actions I have taken over the years are in your opinion: 1. Had to fight rats. Was level one. Coated rats in oil and used torch to set them abaze. Great solution for a 1st level character! Fire is a tremendous ally when used with discretion! Bonus XPs would've been awarded in the campaign I DM! :) 2. Was playing a chaotic evil character in a small valley village. Poured acid on the face of highly attractive and important female cleric by sneaking on the roof of her flat, etching a hole in her roof, and empting vial from that point. Killed her. Took her body and crucified it on the pass that lead into town, so that the rising sun would illuminate her corspe for all to see. Took a cart loaded with barrels of oil and alchamists fire, parked it outside of a the town's local cult's facility and used a time delay fuse to set it off, destroying the facility and half of a nearby building. Explosion set bystands ablaze. :blink: I find this very disturbing... See Ut-Napishtim's post. I usually don't allow my players to take evil characters, so there's not a lot I can add. 3. As a LG char my group was being attacked by a horde of goblins. I cut down a tree and allowed it to fall on the goblins, killing most of them, thus saving my group. (DM allowed this, and I saved the day) I agree with Kaligrad. Lenient DM. Good idea, but you would've needed a lot of time to pull it off! It probably wouldn't have been possible in our campaign. 4. And finally...summonded a clestrial porpise to ram a boat in a harbor causing the boat to sink, the treasure to sink, taking the enemies and one PC with it. The PC lived, the tresure was lost. The creative use of a celestial dolphin would've illicited an XP bonus in our campaign, but might have also drawn the ire of local animal rights activists! ;) I've always enjoyed not always taking the obvious path out of a situation. I've always not discouraged my players from not doing the obvious... :confused: Still sometimes I feel under attack for my ways, not in all cases, but in enough to concern me. How so?
Phrennzy 04-19-05, 09:52 AM	Kobolds: For Steve! Chaaaaarge!" As an intresting aside, Steve is the second most common name for a Kobold. 1. "Coat rats in oil" sounds like you had a brush and basted the oil on. But I'm sure that's not what happened. Fire is a good ally. 2. I don't run evil games. It's easy to be sick and twisted and perverse - it's difficult to be good and honorable. That's why you see more "How to Roleplay a Paladin" threads than "How to Roleplay an Evil Bastard" thread. 3. Maybe with a Plant Bane Vorpal Axe or something. There would have to be some seriously extenuating circumstances for this to work. 4. Any Bad Guy riding a skiff in Plate deserves to be killed by the ramming attack of a celestial dolphin. Interesting to note that the doplhin flipped the skiff. They call him...
D+1 04-19-05, 11:57 AM	Since this is a place populated by knowledgeable DMs I figured I would pose the question of how annoying or postive the below actions I have taken over the years are in your opinion: 1. Had to fight rats. Was level one. Coated rats in oil and used torch to set them abaze.Pretty standard tactics for lvl 1 PC's. It's practically what oil and fire were invented for. 2. Was playing a chaotic evil character in a small valley village. Poured acid on the face of highly attractive and important female cleric by sneaking on the roof of her flat, etching a hole in her roof, and empting vial from that point. Killed her. Took her body and crucified it on the pass that lead into town, so that the rising sun would illuminate her corspe for all to see.Evil is as Evil does I always say. Seems Evil enough. I question that there is enough acid in a VIAL to etch a hole in a roof AND empty the rest onto someone below and KILL them. In 3E a direct hit with a FLASK of acid is 1d6 damage with splash damage being 1pt. I can only assume then that this was some pretty spectacular, special acid that the DM placed in the game. Took a cart loaded with barrels of oil and alchamists fire, parked it outside of a the town's local cult's facility and used a time delay fuse to set it off, destroying the facility and half of a nearby building. Explosion set bystands ablaze.As DM I would require a fairly accurate description of what you were using as a "time-delay fuse" since you'd pretty much have to improvise something. Not that it couldn't be done but it would take more than a handwave and a skill roll in my game. And again, you're playing an evil character so collateral damage isn't an issue as such. 3. As a LG char my group was being attacked by a horde of goblins. I cut down a tree and allowed it to fall on the goblins, killing most of them, thus saving my group. (DM allowed this, and I saved the day)Shows improvisation. Good show. If the DM is allowing it I assume there was nothing hinky about how it was done. For my own campaign it would have to be a pretty BIG tree to kill a "horde" of goblins. 4. And finally...summonded a clestrial porpise to ram a boat in a harbor causing the boat to sink, the treasure to sink, taking the enemies and one PC with it. The PC lived, the tresure was lost.NOTE: the treasure was not lost - you know exactly where it is... on the bottom of the harbor. No reason you couldn't mount an expedition to retrieve it using potions/spells for water breathing, etc. I assume this was the paladin again doing the summoning? It seems a bit reckless to be sinking a boat to kill the enemies and take another PC with it. There had better have been a HIGHLY compelling reason to sacrifice another PC in order to defeat these bad guys. And again I might have had issues with the damage that a porpoise could actually DO to a boat. Is my style of playing welcome in your campaign, and if your feel really generous, how would you have responded to each of the above four situations.I have no problem with players trying to find inventive solutions. I actually wish that the players I had were more inventive rather than trying to always blindly bull through with brute force and sticking only to RAW as if that were the be-all end-all. Ultimately I can't judge your playing style on just four examples - examples that you're providing so you're hardly an unbiased source of data. I think I'd only have issues with the specific effects of what was being done or attempted, never the attempt itself. When players NEED to resort to creative solutions it's either because the DM intentionally put them in that situation to try to get creative solutions rather than mundane tactics, or it's because the PC's are quite simply in over their heads (as a result of either their own poor choices or the DM's failure to anticipate properly). DM's have to remember that players don't always see the better solution because unlike the DM's players don't have all the information - only what the DM has actually presented. Players have to remember that while inventive tactics show good playing abilities on the part of the player, when the DM is faced with off-the-cuff tactics he also has to invent rules and adjudicate effects off-the-cuff which in a way puts him on the spot. If players disagree with the DM's adjudications in such situations the DM can be discouraged from ever allowing it at all simply to avoid recrimination. So, players again have to accept that just because you should be allowed and even encouraged to attempt such things it may be in a DM's best interests (or the campaign in general) to make it likely or even ensure that you still FAIL. Everybody needs to be okay with that. The moment that anyone ISN'T okay with that they need to speak up and make it known. ESP is not a standard human skill IRL.
Slider33 04-19-05, 12:20 PM	I like the creativeness! Aside from the mechanics of how those acts were accomplished, very nice use of creativity. I always try to reward for creativity and interesting solutions in my game, or at least creative roleplaying. I'm also pretty lucky my players do some pretty fun and creative things, it makes my job so much more enjoyable.
Archangel_James 04-19-05, 08:15 PM	Finding creative solutions is fine, but a few of the ones you suggested are somewhat unlikely. Unlike many of the others, I would not award bonus experience for this. It's fine to not discourage something like this, but I don't think it is a good idea actively encourage it either. For one thing, a player might try to always find a creative solution, instead of taking the regular way out, which can be annoying for the DM, especially if most of the ideas are too farfetched to work. But that acid thing; that's just sick. :eek: You should be ashamed.
weasel fierce 04-19-05, 08:17 PM	players who think outside the box has the advantage of surviving characters.