Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Dowjin 11-22-06, 04:03 PM	Essentially, how do you create massive story arcs where previous RP resurfaces sessions down the road, important people get affected, and the PCs get affected, without railroading them towards the story? --- In example, I need my players to defend against bandits and elvin attacks to get them attached to their homeland and get them xp. Then I need them to encounter Drow (involving a long journey I'll have to coax them into) to get pertinant information concerning the backhistory of the elves and why they're attacking... Then they need to cure or slaughter the offending elves, to find out that both sides of the war were being manipulated, and cure/kill the ruling prince.... Which should end the campaign at about level 18 and with them renowned heroes for (most) of the known world. Leading on to epic games if it goes well. --- I've hashed out contingencies, but how do I push them towards all the intrigue and adventure, without the rails?
SillyRobot 11-22-06, 05:17 PM	Keep track of PC-NPC, NPC-NPC interactions, and consequences of PC choices and have those interactions and consequences have campaign effect. I fill out a small 2-3 line section per session/adventure and reference that document as I plan new adventures/encounters. I look for previous items which I can turn into further adventures or scenarios for the group. It builds a sense of involvement for the players as well as a sense of satisfaction as they get to see their choices have consequences that ripple through the world.
Balseraph 11-22-06, 05:21 PM	I don't want to address your campaign directly or attempt to plot things out for you, but maybe I can ramble a little about the process that I went through in my game? Once the PCs got together (a problem in and of itself in many games :D) they all wanted to find work, which let me put forward several options to them, making sure that one or two of them were clearly more attractive choices. (There were two ways the campaign could have gone there: A more traditional "working for the Crown" game, or the one we ended up with; the "freelance explorers and amoral archaeologists" game.) From then on, it's a matter of presenting choices to the PCs and letting them pick the one you wanted them to. It's not railroading because they're choosing it for themselves after all. The trick is to make sure that the choices aren't so obvious, or the alternatives so miserable, that they still feel like they're making the important choices. ...and, quite frankly, I'm just as happy when they choose to pursue a tangent and run off doing something totally different. It means I have to wing it for a session or two and either put the plot on hold or work it in differently... but hey! That's the game :D
ccerose 11-22-06, 05:57 PM	Although my players are quite often go after the hooks I drop, they will occasionally, go of in a direction that takes them away from my campaign and story arcs. When this happens, I don't completely put the adventure path on hold, but I may slow things down a bit. I might link the improv adventure to the main story arc by using NPCs they've encountered. I might leave clues in the improv adventure that lead them back to the main story. If the main story arc has time based elements to it, and the players have wandered off to something else, I might have an article in the newspaper relating the current happenings or have NPCs express the fear and concern that nothing has been found to stave off the impending doom. In the end, if they don't return, they don't return. It doesn't mean the work I put into the story arc is wasted. I just make some modifications and drop new hooks.
alecthemad 11-22-06, 06:10 PM	I generally don't have problems getting my players to follow story hooks. The want to have a good time and have played long enough to know that the action is where the DM hints it will be. Having said that they do sometimes get derailed on personal or unimportant quests/problems. There are several solutions to this. The first is to resolve the non-plot problems cleanly and quickly. Don't waste time, don't make it too hard. Once they have quickly resolved their other more pressing issues (in the mind of the players) then they will go for the remaining hooks which are the plot points. The second is a sort of magician's force. A magician's force is where you get a choice but any choice advances the trick in the proper direction. So what happens is that what ever the players are interested in happens to also lead toward the plot. It still lets the players get their stuff done but when it is finished then they happen to be near a location relevant to the plot. So why not investigate it. This is a nice method as you kill two birds with one stone. You get the players where you want them and they get to do what they are interested in before they carry on the plot. Another more railroad-y method is to link the ability to complete their own quests with completion of the plot. "Well, I could sell you a Mighty Bow if my caravans could get through the bandit lands unmolested." This usually results in player eye rolling but is usually forgiven if not used more than once or twice.
DarkNick 11-22-06, 06:13 PM	Essentially, how do you create massive story arcs where previous RP resurfaces sessions down the road, important people get affected, and the PCs get affected, without railroading them towards the story? --- In example, I need my players to defend against bandits and elvin attacks to get them attached to their homeland and get them xp. Then I need them to encounter Drow (involving a long journey I'll have to coax them into) to get pertinant information concerning the backhistory of the elves and why they're attacking... Then they need to cure or slaughter the offending elves, to find out that both sides of the war were being manipulated, and cure/kill the ruling prince.... Which should end the campaign at about level 18 and with them renowned heroes for (most) of the known world. Leading on to epic games if it goes well. --- I've hashed out contingencies, but how do I push them towards all the intrigue and adventure, without the rails? By adapting and evolving as you go along. What you do is create the situation with the elves - leave clues, but don't count on the PC's working everything out. Just be flexible. Your story arcs are still there, all the background stuff is still going on, but your PCs create the plot. PCs get hooked in when you put effort into character creation. Set the scene - tell them what you would like and let them make the decisions about what affects them. You have to learn to let go a little. Here is how I would approach your example - players are employed in some way to help stop the attacks - either as mercs, land holders, or under the direction of the king. After awhile their 'boss, employer, collegues' decide things are going bad, they want an end to the conflict and the party are charged with finding out why - they could capture an elf, maybe divine contact tells them to contact the dark elves, or maybe there are clues that the dark elves are involved (like the attacking people have dark elf equipment). Or they could try all these things, either way the clues will point to them needing to talk to the dark elves. Leave it up to the party as to how they go about finding the cause. They might think of something you have not which is simply brilliant - you just need to go with it. By this stage they will be tough enough to try their own solution. Leave it up to them how they fix it - do they bring proof to the waring sides that they are minipulated, do they kill off one group? ....have things going on in the background they don't need to know about - spies, politics etc that might create barriers to any solutions.
Dowjin 11-22-06, 06:49 PM	Thanks all! Also, hand-in-hand with a massive story arc, is a massive world.... How many people start with the big details, and then evolve local gameplay as needed. versus; How many people start with the small details (such as, the closeby towns and etc) without worrying about the larger scale geography and politics untill later? --- I constantly work on the big picture, then narrow it down to local details as needed. It really helps the sense of continuity and real-world feeling when constants such as geography and far-off-in-the-capitol events are mentioned... Whats the average PC's reaction to the plot then?
DarkNick 11-22-06, 08:12 PM	In terms of geography players only really need detail about what immediately concerns them. Context is important though, people like to know where things are relative to others, but only the things that concern them. I've run a number of games where I have a big map that is basically empty that gets filled in as they need it. So to answer your question I start with details about the immediate area. Everything else I only design on a need to know basis. If it does not affect the plot then the players don't need to know about it. Pre-generated worlds are a big bonus as they already have the big picture sorted. What is often missing is all the detail. I've set a lot of campaigns in forgotten realms where my immediate locations are almost totally homebrew but the big picture is there to give context.