Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Norrin 03-13-08, 02:19 PM	I was asked yesterday by one of my players who is playing a Spellthief in my newest game if he could buy the feat martial weapon so he could use a short sword. I said sure. I later read the feat Martial weapon proficiency and found he had to buy the feat for each martial weapon he wanted to be proficient in. I thought that this was a big price to pay for one martial weapon. I do not what to start a problem with game balance in my DnD group. Does anyone have some advice on how I could get this player proficiency in short sword with out him having to use up one of his few feats he gets as a Spellthief? Maybe a group weapon proficiency like blades or swords that gives him a bit more?
Fireclave 03-13-08, 02:22 PM	Maybe a group weapon proficiency like blades or swords that gives him a bit more? Weapon Groups feat varient ftw (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/weaponGroupFeats.htm).
Cifer 03-13-08, 02:27 PM	If he wants more than one martial weapon, he should take a level in a class that grants all of them - like fighter, barbarian, ranger, paladin and probably a dozen others.
JancariusSeiryujinn 03-13-08, 02:28 PM	Even the 'role players' in my group (as opposed to power gamers) have commented on how terrible the armor and weapon proficency (other than Exotic) are. It is mechanically ALWAYS better to dip one fighter level for full martial, simple, armor, and shield prof + a bonus feat, a good HD, and an improved Fort save (a tradtionally weak point for rogues). And it's rarely even an out of character action.
iserith 03-13-08, 02:34 PM	Just let him have the shortsword without a feat. Spellthieves are not unlike rogues anyway. In terms of game mechanics, giving him the shortsword doesn't do anything to improve the character. He can do more damage with a morningstar (simple weapon), not accounting for the increased threat range.
Mercurius 03-13-08, 02:51 PM	If he picks an elf as race, he's already proficient in it by virtue of having extra pointy ears. Otherwise, rather than a dip in fighter, I recommend a dip in Swashbuckler. Same HD, same Fort, Weapon Finesse (likely the feat he'd want anyway), and extra skill points with a better skill list. Unless he's got some sort of favored class restriction that will hose him in the long run, but it really depends on race. Yeah, the Martial Weapon Proficiency feat is terrible, though.
Sunic_Flames 03-13-08, 03:02 PM	If he picks an elf as race, he's already proficient in it by virtue of having extra pointy ears. Otherwise, rather than a dip in fighter, I recommend a dip in Swashbuckler. Same HD, same Fort, Weapon Finesse (likely the feat he'd want anyway), and extra skill points with a better skill list. Unless he's got some sort of favored class restriction that will hose him in the long run, but it really depends on race. Yeah, the Martial Weapon Proficiency feat is terrible, though. Indeed. If you have to blow a feat on a weapon, there is no reason not to go for Exotic, that way it might make 2 points of difference instead of 1 (which still tends towards mediocrity at best, but meh).
lifeblender 03-13-08, 03:27 PM	This character should stick to using a dagger. The only difference between a dagger and a short sword is a single point of damage on average. That is not worth a feat, or even a dip into a different class. Note that a 'dagger' in D&D is still a worthwhile weapon, not a little decorative dagger or anything like that. If they want to stick to a light weapon but want more damage, they can use a sickle if they don't care about the crit range. A sickle is 1d6 for medium just like a short sword, although without the 19-20 crit range. If they want a lot more damage, they can move up to a one-handed weapon and use a morningstar for 1d8 or move up to a two-handed weapon and use a spear for 1d8 x3 which can also be thrown. These are all good choices, depending on the character's attitude and role. Again, I would suggest using a feat or class dip to get a short sword. A class dip for martial weapons allows use of light weapons such as kukris and armor spikes, one-handed weapons such as longswords and rapiers, not to mention two-handers such as greatswords, greataxes, and heavy flails. A feat should (as mentioned) go for Exotic weapons, such as spiked chain, bastard sword, or repeating heavy crossbow.
pedro2112 03-14-08, 01:53 AM	If he picks an elf as race, he's already proficient in it by virtue of having extra pointy ears. No he isn't. This should be posted in the "little known rules" thread, but elves are not automatically proficient with a short sword. A long sword, long bow and short bow, but not a short sword. Weird...
Escef 03-14-08, 02:16 AM	No he isn't. This should be posted in the "little known rules" thread, but elves are not automatically proficient with a short sword. A long sword, long bow and short bow, but not a short sword. Weird... You forgot rapier.
Tedronai 03-14-08, 04:02 AM	You forgot rapier. Which is strictly superior to the shortsword for anyone who isn't dual-wielding... Though I personally prefer the Straightblade (Planar Handbook) for the slashing damage (almost always a better choice than piercing).
pedro2112 03-15-08, 04:34 PM	You forgot rapier. Yes
Sildatorak 03-15-08, 10:25 PM	I've always replaced the martial weapon proficiency feat with the weapon group feats in my campaign (I still keep exotic as a single weapon, though). So far there is still no one who has taken it.
calronmoonflower 03-15-08, 10:34 PM	Well if they haven't finished making their character yet they could choose the Otherworldly feat at 1st. Champion's of Valor has the celestial attended birth that lets more take that feat than the normal region. MMMMmmm... maybe I should explain. Otherworldly makes you an outsider. By virtue of being an outsider you get proficiency with all martial weapons as well as 60 foot darkvision.
Necroramo 03-15-08, 11:30 PM	He could take a one-level dip in something fierce?
Mad_Jack 03-16-08, 09:13 AM	The simplest solution is just to let him use the shortsword, since that's all he wants. Adding a single d6 weapon to the list of a class is hardly gamebreaking. Let him use his feat for something else. I generally houserule that if somebody goes through the trouble to take the Martial Weapon Proficiency feat, I ask them what weapons they want to learn to use and let them pick a handful of them.
geekling 03-16-08, 10:04 AM	The one time it has come up in our group, we kind of fudged a houserule to the extent of if you use a non-exotic weapon for about a level. Taking the penalties for non-proficiency for that. You become proficient with that one when you level up. For 'free' so to speak, no feat needed. A little perk for actually roleplaying the character learning to use an unfamiliar weapon in 'in game' situations. A bit situational of course, if starting to use it when you need 100xp to level up. Just to exploit getting the proficiency for 'free'. That isn't enough. But if the player is persistant enough to want to take that non-proficiency penalty in several encounters and over several sessions. He or she have earned the proficiency. Not a solution for powergaming groups, perhaps, where it would cause friction with the other players to volontarily "gimp" the character for a while to gain a very minor little perk. But it works for us.
CrimsonDeath 03-16-08, 04:01 PM	There's also the Militia feat from Player's Guide to Faerun, which grants proficiency in all martial weapons.