A few houserules I am considering... [Archive] - Wizards Community

A few houserules I am considering... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Thuragrun
07-20-05, 11:49 PM I have a few new feat houserules that I want to get some input on.

Improved Grapple: I am considering removing the Imp. Unarmed Attack prerequisite in favor of minimum Wisdom of 12. Being a former wrestler myself, I know wrestling skills do not necessarily come from high strength and never from the ability to throw an effective punch or kick.

Precise Shot: I am considering removing the Point Blank Shot prerequisite in favor of minimum Dexterity of 14. I cannot see the connection between the two feats.

Thanks!
TheChilliGod
07-21-05, 12:04 AM I don't think removing the prerequisites for that few feats will have much of an effect on the campaign as a whole. If you want it, go ahead and do it.

As for the reason why Point Blank Shot is a prerequisite of Precise shot, game balance aside, WotC may feel that in order to hit someone in melee with an arrow, one must feel what being that much closer to melee combat (being within reach of most enemies, if they move to you) feels like first. My opinion, however, so I may just be completely wrong. Mechanic-wise, not having a prerequisite for the feat at all makes it... slightly unbalanced. Maybe if you have a Base Attack Bonus or Dexterity prerequisite instead...

But anyway, I doubt it changing the feats will affect the game much. You have my approval, for what it's worth.
Ut-Napishtim
07-21-05, 12:11 AM I don't see anything particularly unbalancing about those, but not a lot of real reason to need house rules either.

I think in both cases the prerequisite is intended to reflect dedicated training. Personally I'd opt for Close-Quarters Fighting for a character without Improved Grapple, although Precise Shot is always nice for a ranged spellcaster.
Thuragrun
07-21-05, 12:12 AM I had a minimum dex for the Precise Shot feat and left it out of my post.

I have other many other feat tweaks I have gotten approval for here, these are just some of my more recent thoughts.
Ze_Mighty_Vegetable
07-21-05, 01:30 AM I think imp unarmed as prerequisite for imp grapple make sense. Imp unarmed doesn't just means you can throw an effective punch, it means you are able to do so against weapon-wielding foes. Don't forget D&D combat usually involve weapons, claws and such. It make sense to learn to attack unarmed before learning how to wrestle.

That said, it's no big deal, as your prerequiste also make sense.
m00
07-21-05, 01:35 AM Improved Grapple: I am considering removing the Imp. Unarmed Attack prerequisite in favor of minimum Wisdom of 12. Being a former wrestler myself, I know wrestling skills do not necessarily come from high strength and never from the ability to throw an effective punch or kick.
I have no comment on how grappling works in real life. However, I do think that Improved Grapple needs a significant prerequisite, such as IUS, to mitigate its potency. Most beefy combatants (fighters and barbarians) will want to have a good Wisdom anyway, so I don't think that a minimum Wis serves as a good stand in. Were I so inclined to remove the IUS prereq, I would probably weaken the Improved Grapple feat so that it just negates the attack of opportunity, and does not give a +4 bonus on grapple checks, and leave out the Wis prereq. Perhaps a second feat could add the +4 bonus on grapple checks. This way, expert grapplers don't also have to be expert hand-to-hand combatants, but they also don't have to be particularly aware or enlightened individuals.

Additionally, I generally think it's a good idea to separate personal experience and game mechanics. Lots of things about D&D tend not to agree with personal experiences, so it seems strange to draw the line at Improved Grapple.

Precise Shot: I am considering removing the Point Blank Shot prerequisite in favor of minimum Dexterity of 14. I cannot see the connection between the two feats.
This seems totally arbitrary. I can understand not seeing a connection between Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot. I can understand wanting to decouple them. But what about any of the other feats that have PBS as prerequisites (Rapid Shot, Far Shot, Shot on the Run, and Multishot, IIRC)? What makes PBS make sense as a prerequisite for any of those and not Precise Shot? If you ask me, if there's one feat in that list that makes sense as having PBS as a prereq, its Precise Shot. The others seem much less related. I think this houserule is unnecessary.

I think theme- and flavor-based houserules can add a lot to a campaign, but minor tweaks like these tend to pile up until you have basically an entire new PHB, at which point they are doing more harm than good. Also, ability prereqs tend to be odd (all core feats with ability prereqs have odd scores - I don't know about non-core material) to add some minor amount of usefulness to odd ability scores.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Thuragrun 07-20-05, 11:49 PM	I have a few new feat houserules that I want to get some input on. Improved Grapple: I am considering removing the Imp. Unarmed Attack prerequisite in favor of minimum Wisdom of 12. Being a former wrestler myself, I know wrestling skills do not necessarily come from high strength and never from the ability to throw an effective punch or kick. Precise Shot: I am considering removing the Point Blank Shot prerequisite in favor of minimum Dexterity of 14. I cannot see the connection between the two feats. Thanks!
TheChilliGod 07-21-05, 12:04 AM	I don't think removing the prerequisites for that few feats will have much of an effect on the campaign as a whole. If you want it, go ahead and do it. As for the reason why Point Blank Shot is a prerequisite of Precise shot, game balance aside, WotC may feel that in order to hit someone in melee with an arrow, one must feel what being that much closer to melee combat (being within reach of most enemies, if they move to you) feels like first. My opinion, however, so I may just be completely wrong. Mechanic-wise, not having a prerequisite for the feat at all makes it... slightly unbalanced. Maybe if you have a Base Attack Bonus or Dexterity prerequisite instead... But anyway, I doubt it changing the feats will affect the game much. You have my approval, for what it's worth.
Ut-Napishtim 07-21-05, 12:11 AM	I don't see anything particularly unbalancing about those, but not a lot of real reason to need house rules either. I think in both cases the prerequisite is intended to reflect dedicated training. Personally I'd opt for Close-Quarters Fighting for a character without Improved Grapple, although Precise Shot is always nice for a ranged spellcaster.
Thuragrun 07-21-05, 12:12 AM	I had a minimum dex for the Precise Shot feat and left it out of my post. I have other many other feat tweaks I have gotten approval for here, these are just some of my more recent thoughts.
Ze_Mighty_Vegetable 07-21-05, 01:30 AM	I think imp unarmed as prerequisite for imp grapple make sense. Imp unarmed doesn't just means you can throw an effective punch, it means you are able to do so against weapon-wielding foes. Don't forget D&D combat usually involve weapons, claws and such. It make sense to learn to attack unarmed before learning how to wrestle. That said, it's no big deal, as your prerequiste also make sense.
m00 07-21-05, 01:35 AM	Improved Grapple: I am considering removing the Imp. Unarmed Attack prerequisite in favor of minimum Wisdom of 12. Being a former wrestler myself, I know wrestling skills do not necessarily come from high strength and never from the ability to throw an effective punch or kick. I have no comment on how grappling works in real life. However, I do think that Improved Grapple needs a significant prerequisite, such as IUS, to mitigate its potency. Most beefy combatants (fighters and barbarians) will want to have a good Wisdom anyway, so I don't think that a minimum Wis serves as a good stand in. Were I so inclined to remove the IUS prereq, I would probably weaken the Improved Grapple feat so that it just negates the attack of opportunity, and does not give a +4 bonus on grapple checks, and leave out the Wis prereq. Perhaps a second feat could add the +4 bonus on grapple checks. This way, expert grapplers don't also have to be expert hand-to-hand combatants, but they also don't have to be particularly aware or enlightened individuals. Additionally, I generally think it's a good idea to separate personal experience and game mechanics. Lots of things about D&D tend not to agree with personal experiences, so it seems strange to draw the line at Improved Grapple. Precise Shot: I am considering removing the Point Blank Shot prerequisite in favor of minimum Dexterity of 14. I cannot see the connection between the two feats. This seems totally arbitrary. I can understand not seeing a connection between Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot. I can understand wanting to decouple them. But what about any of the other feats that have PBS as prerequisites (Rapid Shot, Far Shot, Shot on the Run, and Multishot, IIRC)? What makes PBS make sense as a prerequisite for any of those and not Precise Shot? If you ask me, if there's one feat in that list that makes sense as having PBS as a prereq, its Precise Shot. The others seem much less related. I think this houserule is unnecessary. I think theme- and flavor-based houserules can add a lot to a campaign, but minor tweaks like these tend to pile up until you have basically an entire new PHB, at which point they are doing more harm than good. Also, ability prereqs tend to be odd (all core feats with ability prereqs have odd scores - I don't know about non-core material) to add some minor amount of usefulness to odd ability scores.