Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Sailor V 12-23-04, 05:50 AM	Hello eveyone. A few months I decided to start playing D&D, and well I had fun in my first game as a player....yet now I have deicided to start running a game with some of my closer friends, taking up the role of the "reluctant DM" There are however a few problems I have been facing with rules and with players. Becasue all the players (5 players and I) are new to the game, the first few games were a bit shakey with me not knowing the rules all too well and the players being completley new, so I couldnt expect much! Now things are better, except for the fact that none of the players roleplay! (Well most dont!) My first experience as a player was a fun one, owing to the fact that all the other players were veterans, so it felt "real" I should say. I just cant seem to get the players to focus, with mobiles ringing etc....I guess it sounds worse than it is but this is a problem. That topic aside I also have a few problems with rules (Those books are way too dense! lol) The question that has been bugging me all day is...can you take 20 on seaching for traps? It just seems a bit odd becasue if so, all traps could be easily found..... Another thing is am I meant to prompt players on checks? EG Do I say make a spot check out of the blue? Because if I did, and the player failed, he obvioulsy knows there is something there! Sorry for the lengthy post but there is one last thing that has been the biggest issue! The grid system. Ive been using the grid from the back of the DM manual...but I cant draw on it for obviuous reasons. So what we did was use glad wrap (so I can draw on it then throw it away)....What do other people do? Please help me out on this one, the evil grid has been bugging me! Thanks for any help.
ECOM 12-23-04, 07:30 AM	There are however a few problems I have been facing with rules and with players. Becasue all the players (5 players and I) are new to the game, the first few games were a bit shakey with me not knowing the rules all too well and the players being completley new, so I couldnt expect much! Now things are better, except for the fact that none of the players roleplay! (Well most dont!) My first experience as a player was a fun one, owing to the fact that all the other players were veterans, so it felt "real" I should say. I just cant seem to get the players to focus, with mobiles ringing etc....I guess it sounds worse than it is but this is a problem.. Make some encounters that dont involve combat. things like buing equipment from merchants. getting rooms at the inn. simple things at first to get them into the idea on talking to someone in the game. An important phrase i learned an tell my new players a lot is "don't tell me tell him/her" usually in responce to I tell him/her... That topic aside I also have a few problems with rules (Those books are way too dense! lol) The question that has been bugging me all day is...can you take 20 on seaching for traps? It just seems a bit odd becasue if so, all traps could be easily found..... Another thing is am I meant to prompt players on checks? EG Do I say make a spot check out of the blue? Because if I did, and the player failed, he obvioulsy knows there is something there!. If i remember it takes a minuet to search a 10' by 10' area taking twenty is like searching over and over again so would take 20 minuets every 10' y 10' area. While this could be done it should be discuraged. twenty minuets is a long time have wandering monsters come along. also make the other pc role play those 20 minuets they will probably bug the rouge into hurring Sorry for the lengthy post but there is one last thing that has been the biggest issue! The grid system. Ive been using the grid from the back of the DM manual...but I cant draw on it for obviuous reasons. So what we did was use glad wrap (so I can draw on it then throw it away)....What do other people do? Please help me out on this one, the evil grid has been bugging me! Thanks for any help. I got a board from home depo that is dry eraseable (i cant remember the name but it is white 4'/2.5') and used a ultra fine sharpe to draw a 1" grid on it it took about 8 months of weekly use befor the lines faded and had to be redrawn. hope this is some help
Derren S. 12-23-04, 07:43 AM	As you are all new I suggest that you simply start roleplaying and look how your players react to it. It can also be that the characters your group made are not made for roleplaying (No personality) as this were probably their first characters. As for the check, yes you can take 20, but it takes 2 minutes for every 5ft. square to search it with take 20 (20 times as long as normal).
tackleberry 12-23-04, 07:49 AM	havent got much time.... at work..... boss hovering...... a couple of thoughts: 'grid' - google for "gridmaster" its a free program that also allows you to print off hexes and other square sizes, print off inch squares on A4 paper (or photocopy loads), draw on em, throw em away OR laminate them and use dry wipe markers. I use 6 sheets of laminated A4 so i can put each sheet side by side for larger rooms or to show a long corridor or several areas at once. 'getting players to role play' - do a quick search on these forums, there are hundreds of threads about this topic and a lot of really good answers (some bum ones too but ho hey!) TURN THE DAMN PHONES OFF! if one rings, THWACK! the DMG upside the head! how is THAT for a distraction? you have an advantage in that it sounds like your players want to play well, to get into their characters more it is partly your responsibility to lead by example and show them how its done: silly voices, expressions, impediments etc the lot. hopefully they will start to do the same after a while of realising that it is not embarassing to be 'in character' and actually a very rich part of dnd. sit down with each player and create a background for their character together, allow them their input. within this story you will be able to take threads and string out nice side treks which they cant help but get involved in RP wise. for example, if the nasty wizard who killed their father when they were just a baby turns up - you have fed the player a hook he should really be able to sink his teeth into. 'spot checks' - should be done secretly by the DM for the exact reason you stated. damn - here comes the boss....
Erix d'Pheer 12-23-04, 11:24 AM	Yes, you may take 20 while making a Search check, be there traps or no. You may not take 20 when making a Disable Device check, because there are consequences for failure. It's usually a good idea to ask for your players' Spot and Listen modifiers at the beginning of each session so you can make checks without them knowing. Getting players to role-play can be tough. Try offering experience awards for good role-playing. Don't give out huge awards, but any significant chunk of experience should be a pretty good incentive. Also, I always make my players think up a biography for their characters, and I prefer that they write it out and give it to me. If they don't want to do that, you could offer experience or other incentives for the bio, too.
Mordin 12-23-04, 11:39 AM	This may not be what you lokking for but as a begining DM dont alow an evil party for awhile atleast for me it was a nightmare.
Zycko 12-23-04, 11:48 AM	You could also call out spot and listen checks even when there is nothing to see / hear. When the characters act like they know something is there even though they failed their spot/listen, that is called 'metagaming'. You can also do a search on that on these boards.
JohnJohn 12-23-04, 12:23 PM	Over the years there have been several ways I have encouraged roleplaying..some of these work for some people others hate em 1) adopt a rule if you say it your character says it. If the PCs are in front of the cruel/mean chief constable with his guards and one says "oh give the captain a wedgie" well they said it... now the chips fall where they may (note this can lead to character deaths/rough situations/players accusing the DM of being mean). By having such a rule the players start thinking about what their characters say to NPCs and the NPCs start to become a little more real to them. I often couple this rule with an egg timer/cooking timer. Set it for 45-50 mins and while its counting down everyone is "in session". Table talk is to be kept to a minimum (though there will be a few funny coments about something I let these slide). When the thing goes "ding" everyone gets a 5-10 min break to get food/drink/bathroom and talk. Then after the break set the timer again. Having the breaks allows people to focus more on the session. 2) give xp bonuses for good roleplaying. You can give these in the open or write them down on pieces of sctratch paper and hand them out when you are awarding xp. I started gaming under the 1st ed. way back when and combat encounter xp was actually one of the smallest amounts you got. You got xp for roleplaying, treasure, completing quests, bonus for high attributes etc. I have kept this theme and give out far more xp for other things besides killing the critter. Depending on lvl of characters a good amount could be 500-750xp for the 2 best roleplayers, a little less for the next best and small amount for whoever didnt roleplay as well that session. Each session who gets what should change as players start trying to get the best award. After a couple sessions you will definitely see players trying to roleplay more as those xp totals add up. 3) never name the monster always just give a description. This can be a pain but when you say you see an orc with its sword drawn and it hisses at you...well the encounter is now defined. Everyone knows what an orc is and what it does. Instead describe what they see (dont give the monsters name) and let players decide what to do from there. Do they want to talk to it? Is it hostile? Do they have to fight it? Let them figure it out (keep in mind that intelligent monsters seldom fight to the death they will run away, try and talk, yell for help, try and hide...whatever. 4) I get the chars name, AC, HPs at the start of the session. From then on never tell players how much damage they take instead say something like the rat like critter hisses at you and its dirty short sword finds its mark getting through your defenses and striking you...you feel pain pierce your side... By not knowing what their hps are players get very nervous. Its one thing to be dealing with what you think are orcs when you have 50 hps and a good ac. Its another thing to be dealing with scabby humanoids and know only you already feel fairly beat up. Anyways this is all stuff I have used over the years to help get people to roleplay. Any of these will get new players thinking more and giving roleplaying a try.
Gabriel Dian 12-23-04, 12:42 PM	Another idea I used with a group that was unsure/embarrased about roleplaying was bringing a vetran in to help. For one session, bring a really good player you know (maybe one of the guys you played with) and let him play an NPC. His job is to show the players how it CAN be done, and open their minds to all the possiblities of role playing. Bring him/her for only one or two sessions, so that there will be no danger of him "taking over" the group or "running away" with the game, and coach him beforehand on the exact situation you're in, the players, characters, adventure, what you want him to do, and be sure to ask him what he plans on doing. It would be great if you could bring him in as a surprise for you players, only make sure he isn't a surprise for yourself! Better yet, get a DM you trust to come in and do the job. He not only can play an NPC, but also give you some tips on your game (privately to you, not in front of the rest of the players) and enrich your game world with all sorts of neat ideas. Only make sure it is someone you trust, that won't get carried away and "steal" the game from you and your players. Remind him/her that he/she is just an advisor... :D
zodiki 12-23-04, 12:48 PM	Taking 20 is all about the time factor. If they have time they can take 20. This question always evokes Raiders of the Lost Ark for me. When Indy is going into the South American temple/tomb at the beginning to get the idol, he is taking 20 all the way and he finds all the traps with relative ease and then uses some interesting moves to bypass them. This includes the trap that holds the golden Idol. However, when he finally takes the idol, unfortunately (for him not for us) he fails his Disable Device check - which he couldn't take 20 on. He then has to move quickly out of the tomb setting off all the traps he bypassed before and missing ones he might have found if he had more time. For me it's more fun for the PCs when they have to figure out how to bypass a trap than it is to be surprised by one. Besides, how can PCs be afraid of something they don't even know exists. Don't allow them to take 20 all the time of course, throw the proverbial rolling boulder at them once in a while to make things frantic.
Sailor V 12-23-04, 10:56 PM	Thanks a heap everyone! Ill keep these things in mind when our group gets together next time, and hopefully all should work out. (The Grid dillema should also have been sorted out by then too!)