A few minor questions from a new DM - Help! >.< [Archive] - Wizards Community

A few minor questions from a new DM - Help! >.< [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Daine_Salmalin
08-01-06, 03:17 PM Alright, I have a few questions. Currently I am working on a campaign loosely based on Harry Potter. The PCs are part of an organization - the army against Voldy's left over followers (go figure the stupid Death Eaters wouldnt just give up after their leader died.) Anywho, though. I think I'll have it so at the beginning, the PCs are at Hogwarts (which is now a training ground for the army-type group of wizards defending the "good" wizards and muggles) and for the first session or two they'll be in training. I figure this is an acceptable way of letting the PCs get some experience, and get a headstart before heading off to do their job of offing the remaining Death Eaters. Now heres where my questions come in.
1. How much experience should I let them earn? I've heard of DMs who give newer, weaker characters more experience than normal because they would naturally learn more the first time they fight a giant bat then the 4th or 5th. I would go with this, but I'm not sure if it would be fair to reward them with so much experience at the beginning, especially since is considered "training".
2. Should I allow their characters to die? I've been toying with the idea of when their character runs out of HP hes teleported back to the main room (with the "teachers") and isn't allowed to complete the challange with the rest of the group. The only problem with this is that I'm worried they will get an unhealthy feel of immortality, and when they actually go on their mission, they won't quite understand that they can die. >.<

Thank you for any assistance you can offer, and sorry the post was so long-winded!
ccerose
08-01-06, 03:32 PM Always allow death to be an option.
Psifon
08-01-06, 03:41 PM Following the XP guidelines in the DMG works pretty well. I would just do that.

Sure, let characters die, but give them opportunities to pull out of sure death.

Low level play is actually pretty safe. The reason for this is that characters rarely recieve more than 10 points of damage in a round. This means that they don't often drop below -10 in a single hit. Having other players stabalize a dying character is part of the game. If the party lets the the character blead to death then it's not exactly you who killed them is it?

Just use the rules as written. They work quite well. Really.

Give yourself permission to make mistakes. Don't play favorites and don't do anything to your players that you wouldn't appreciate if your DM did it to you. This includes mollycoddling them! Just be fair, use your best judgement, and you will be OK.

One idea that you can use if you are unsure of your power levels: Have the party fighing a foe who has another enemy. Establish this fact early. Then, if you find that the encounter is too hard for the party, just have the enemy run in and "accidentally" save them. If you pull it off right, your players will think that you planned this all along.

Another good trick: Give the players some vague clues about what is going on. As they speculate, you can steal ideas from them, and use them in play. Then watch as they look all smug about how they "knew it all along" that your story line was going that way! Really. You have several highly intelligent brains at the table. USE THEM!
BroadinMineshafter
08-01-06, 03:46 PM We had a dm once who put us in 'training', it went on too long and got frustrating.

If i was you, let them level up at the end of their training period. Don't make it too long, say your first game session, if it's in the evening, or halfway through if you are playing a longer session. Just tell them, 'having succesfully completed your training, you have been rewarded'. If you feel one or two players have excelled, excellent role-playing, good idea, or keeping the game fun, then reward them with a minor magic item, maybe a wand, or scroll, potion, or +1 protection.

Always let your players know they may die, it adds thrill and excitement to your game. Be aware that you may have to make an example here.
Daine_Salmalin
08-01-06, 03:55 PM Thanks for your points of view, BroadinMineshafter, Psifon, and Ccerose. You all agree on the point that death should be an option, and with the points you make in your argument I think your right. So death will be a possibility, even in the training (also, I'll keep an eye on it to make sure it doesnt go on too long, thanks for the tip Broadin!) As for the experience, I think I'll follow the DMG for gaining experience, and if they gain enough points as well as 3 good ratings (I've decided to use a rating system to determine if the character deserves to level up) more than bad, then they'll gain a level at the end of training. Is it alright if I hold off on giving them their level until they're done with that quest-type thing? As long as it isnt for too long?
BroadinMineshafter
08-01-06, 04:18 PM that sounds like agood idea. Tell them that 'they must complete their training with a special quest, it will be dangerous, but they should prevail', and then level up when they get back. good luck and make sure you all have fun.
Daine_Salmalin
08-01-06, 05:01 PM Thank you, again.

Unfortunatly, I've ran into yet another problem, and therefore, have another question. Since I've decided to make death a possibility, I also have to come up with ways to deal with PCs who die. (Hopefully my PCs will avoid the unfortunate fate and I wont need too many various scenarios) I looked up information on the question on google (love that site) and found that often there are Replacement PCs so the actual person playing can continue and isnt completely cut off from the adventure. How would I DM for my group with a new character, and how would they meet that character? I'd prefer the player whose character died to be able to get back into the game rather soon, if at all possible. Any suggestions for how that can happen? Also, what if the other characters loot the dead one, and therefore end up with more treasure than origionally intended? In other words, how can I drain the coffers of the survivors? (not much, but some) Thanks for all your help - yet again!
Reversefigure4
08-01-06, 07:59 PM Replacement PCs are found captured by evil enemy wizards, and freed by the PCs (This can be done quite quickly, just make it their next encounter). Hogwarts learns that Artemis the fourth party member has died, and teleports out Jacen to join the group and help them. Perhaps Hogwarts also magically transports the body of the dead one back for burial. Perhaps custom dictates wizards are buried with all their gear, and terrible curses befall anyone who steals it.
Daine_Salmalin
08-01-06, 11:55 PM wow - thats a great idea!! O.O Thanks!
DaisMiir_Sir_Unilev
08-02-06, 12:10 AM I've tried experimenting with this one. There are 7 years at Hogwarts. By the time they finish their schooling, they are adults, and can persue more experience with magic.

I've figured that if I ever started something like this, than I would allow most spells except for evil spells, necromantic spells, and strong evocation spells (i.e. Delayed Blast Fireball)

The players, by all right, are capable of learning almost any spell in the wizard/sorcerer spell list. They are also allowed to mess around with current spells, like how Seamus was trying to turn his water into rum, though they should make a DC 20 spellcraft check, with failures of five or more being that it explodes, and a roll of 1 meaning that they are sent to the infirmary.

When it comes to Lord Moldy Butt's followers, make them Necromancers, with varying forbidden schools.

Then we come to the main protagonists of the books. If you are willing to do some serious research, you can get a very close result to him.

Spell research: If you've noticed in the books, Harry learns some spells that he should not be able to cast due to his experience. Lift the restrictions on higher level spells ever so slightly. An example would be to allow them to cast a higher level spell only if they have high enough score to do so, and only if they succeed a percentile check that mesaures below their spell failure.

Though that sort of overpowers the characters, and the Broomsticks...DO I even have to mention those?

All in all, if you have your characters train at the school for one year, they would go up to the third level.

I've never really been too much of a fan of my own thinking. It's always shown me to godmod my players. Such as my Feral class created for the Unknown Plane of Past. THough that's a story for another day.
revnk
08-02-06, 12:05 PM If you keep an eye on challenge ratings (CRs) and encounter levels (ELs), the party should level up just fine and shouldn't die as long as they don't do anything stupid. For a party of wizards/sorcerers at low levels, you might look at keeping the CRs a little depressed in order to take into account the low hit points at low levels. (Later on, if the campaign lasts, you might look at elevating CRs a little in order to account for the party's high level of firepower.)

It's safe to assume that "Hogwart's" wouldn't routinely send students on suicide missions; take this into account when crafting early adventures. For instance, an appropriate mission for low-level characters might involve going on a field trip into a swamp to collect a special plant (and facing appropriate low-CR monsters). An inappropriate mission might involve going into Death-Eater central HQ and initating a battle royale with the High Command. Keep in mind that in the books Harry is a ward of destiny: in the first five books Voldemort is weak and is even holding back a little until he better understands his link to Harry. An ironic result of this is that Harry and his friends often face enemies that ought to be overpowering, but poke on through because of luck, intervention of powerful allies, weakness or incompetence of enemies, restraint by Voldemort, etc. Unless you're setting up a game where the PCs are buffered by fate against their enemies, they can't depend on destiny--they'll have to fight fair with dice and guile, and should therefore start small.

One last point about setting up encounters and rewarding experience: players receive experience for successfully facing encounters. The way to successfully face an encounter with a more powerful enemy might be to successfully hide from it or evade it. The way to successfully face a trap might be to simply survive it. The way to successfully deal with a powerful Death Eater may be to bluff him into withdrawing with clever repartee. You will need to evaluate what counts as "success," but don't assume that success means they whomp something on the head and kill it. I wouldn't give a 1st level character experience for running away from a wee mouse, but I'd probably give him experience for having the sense to hide from the tarrasque. Keep in mind, too, that it can be appropriate to give partial awards: you might feel that being halfway successful in dealing with an encounter merits half the experience points being awarded. When in doubt, it is better to award experience points than to withhold them. Giving an extra 200 XP when you weren't sure if the players really deserved the points will not break anything; withholding 200 XP that the players might have deserved is miserly and anti-fun (and the point of the game is fun!).

Good luck!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Daine_Salmalin 08-01-06, 03:17 PM	Alright, I have a few questions. Currently I am working on a campaign loosely based on Harry Potter. The PCs are part of an organization - the army against Voldy's left over followers (go figure the stupid Death Eaters wouldnt just give up after their leader died.) Anywho, though. I think I'll have it so at the beginning, the PCs are at Hogwarts (which is now a training ground for the army-type group of wizards defending the "good" wizards and muggles) and for the first session or two they'll be in training. I figure this is an acceptable way of letting the PCs get some experience, and get a headstart before heading off to do their job of offing the remaining Death Eaters. Now heres where my questions come in. 1. How much experience should I let them earn? I've heard of DMs who give newer, weaker characters more experience than normal because they would naturally learn more the first time they fight a giant bat then the 4th or 5th. I would go with this, but I'm not sure if it would be fair to reward them with so much experience at the beginning, especially since is considered "training". 2. Should I allow their characters to die? I've been toying with the idea of when their character runs out of HP hes teleported back to the main room (with the "teachers") and isn't allowed to complete the challange with the rest of the group. The only problem with this is that I'm worried they will get an unhealthy feel of immortality, and when they actually go on their mission, they won't quite understand that they can die. >.< Thank you for any assistance you can offer, and sorry the post was so long-winded!
ccerose 08-01-06, 03:32 PM	Always allow death to be an option.
Psifon 08-01-06, 03:41 PM	Following the XP guidelines in the DMG works pretty well. I would just do that. Sure, let characters die, but give them opportunities to pull out of sure death. Low level play is actually pretty safe. The reason for this is that characters rarely recieve more than 10 points of damage in a round. This means that they don't often drop below -10 in a single hit. Having other players stabalize a dying character is part of the game. If the party lets the the character blead to death then it's not exactly you who killed them is it? Just use the rules as written. They work quite well. Really. Give yourself permission to make mistakes. Don't play favorites and don't do anything to your players that you wouldn't appreciate if your DM did it to you. This includes mollycoddling them! Just be fair, use your best judgement, and you will be OK. One idea that you can use if you are unsure of your power levels: Have the party fighing a foe who has another enemy. Establish this fact early. Then, if you find that the encounter is too hard for the party, just have the enemy run in and "accidentally" save them. If you pull it off right, your players will think that you planned this all along. Another good trick: Give the players some vague clues about what is going on. As they speculate, you can steal ideas from them, and use them in play. Then watch as they look all smug about how they "knew it all along" that your story line was going that way! Really. You have several highly intelligent brains at the table. USE THEM!
BroadinMineshafter 08-01-06, 03:46 PM	We had a dm once who put us in 'training', it went on too long and got frustrating. If i was you, let them level up at the end of their training period. Don't make it too long, say your first game session, if it's in the evening, or halfway through if you are playing a longer session. Just tell them, 'having succesfully completed your training, you have been rewarded'. If you feel one or two players have excelled, excellent role-playing, good idea, or keeping the game fun, then reward them with a minor magic item, maybe a wand, or scroll, potion, or +1 protection. Always let your players know they may die, it adds thrill and excitement to your game. Be aware that you may have to make an example here.
Daine_Salmalin 08-01-06, 03:55 PM	Thanks for your points of view, BroadinMineshafter, Psifon, and Ccerose. You all agree on the point that death should be an option, and with the points you make in your argument I think your right. So death will be a possibility, even in the training (also, I'll keep an eye on it to make sure it doesnt go on too long, thanks for the tip Broadin!) As for the experience, I think I'll follow the DMG for gaining experience, and if they gain enough points as well as 3 good ratings (I've decided to use a rating system to determine if the character deserves to level up) more than bad, then they'll gain a level at the end of training. Is it alright if I hold off on giving them their level until they're done with that quest-type thing? As long as it isnt for too long?
BroadinMineshafter 08-01-06, 04:18 PM	that sounds like agood idea. Tell them that 'they must complete their training with a special quest, it will be dangerous, but they should prevail', and then level up when they get back. good luck and make sure you all have fun.
Daine_Salmalin 08-01-06, 05:01 PM	Thank you, again. Unfortunatly, I've ran into yet another problem, and therefore, have another question. Since I've decided to make death a possibility, I also have to come up with ways to deal with PCs who die. (Hopefully my PCs will avoid the unfortunate fate and I wont need too many various scenarios) I looked up information on the question on google (love that site) and found that often there are Replacement PCs so the actual person playing can continue and isnt completely cut off from the adventure. How would I DM for my group with a new character, and how would they meet that character? I'd prefer the player whose character died to be able to get back into the game rather soon, if at all possible. Any suggestions for how that can happen? Also, what if the other characters loot the dead one, and therefore end up with more treasure than origionally intended? In other words, how can I drain the coffers of the survivors? (not much, but some) Thanks for all your help - yet again!
Reversefigure4 08-01-06, 07:59 PM	Replacement PCs are found captured by evil enemy wizards, and freed by the PCs (This can be done quite quickly, just make it their next encounter). Hogwarts learns that Artemis the fourth party member has died, and teleports out Jacen to join the group and help them. Perhaps Hogwarts also magically transports the body of the dead one back for burial. Perhaps custom dictates wizards are buried with all their gear, and terrible curses befall anyone who steals it.
Daine_Salmalin 08-01-06, 11:55 PM	wow - thats a great idea!! O.O Thanks!
DaisMiir_Sir_Unilev 08-02-06, 12:10 AM	I've tried experimenting with this one. There are 7 years at Hogwarts. By the time they finish their schooling, they are adults, and can persue more experience with magic. I've figured that if I ever started something like this, than I would allow most spells except for evil spells, necromantic spells, and strong evocation spells (i.e. Delayed Blast Fireball) The players, by all right, are capable of learning almost any spell in the wizard/sorcerer spell list. They are also allowed to mess around with current spells, like how Seamus was trying to turn his water into rum, though they should make a DC 20 spellcraft check, with failures of five or more being that it explodes, and a roll of 1 meaning that they are sent to the infirmary. When it comes to Lord Moldy Butt's followers, make them Necromancers, with varying forbidden schools. Then we come to the main protagonists of the books. If you are willing to do some serious research, you can get a very close result to him. Spell research: If you've noticed in the books, Harry learns some spells that he should not be able to cast due to his experience. Lift the restrictions on higher level spells ever so slightly. An example would be to allow them to cast a higher level spell only if they have high enough score to do so, and only if they succeed a percentile check that mesaures below their spell failure. Though that sort of overpowers the characters, and the Broomsticks...DO I even have to mention those? All in all, if you have your characters train at the school for one year, they would go up to the third level. I've never really been too much of a fan of my own thinking. It's always shown me to godmod my players. Such as my Feral class created for the Unknown Plane of Past. THough that's a story for another day.
revnk 08-02-06, 12:05 PM	If you keep an eye on challenge ratings (CRs) and encounter levels (ELs), the party should level up just fine and shouldn't die as long as they don't do anything stupid. For a party of wizards/sorcerers at low levels, you might look at keeping the CRs a little depressed in order to take into account the low hit points at low levels. (Later on, if the campaign lasts, you might look at elevating CRs a little in order to account for the party's high level of firepower.) It's safe to assume that "Hogwart's" wouldn't routinely send students on suicide missions; take this into account when crafting early adventures. For instance, an appropriate mission for low-level characters might involve going on a field trip into a swamp to collect a special plant (and facing appropriate low-CR monsters). An inappropriate mission might involve going into Death-Eater central HQ and initating a battle royale with the High Command. Keep in mind that in the books Harry is a ward of destiny: in the first five books Voldemort is weak and is even holding back a little until he better understands his link to Harry. An ironic result of this is that Harry and his friends often face enemies that ought to be overpowering, but poke on through because of luck, intervention of powerful allies, weakness or incompetence of enemies, restraint by Voldemort, etc. Unless you're setting up a game where the PCs are buffered by fate against their enemies, they can't depend on destiny--they'll have to fight fair with dice and guile, and should therefore start small. One last point about setting up encounters and rewarding experience: players receive experience for successfully facing encounters. The way to successfully face an encounter with a more powerful enemy might be to successfully hide from it or evade it. The way to successfully face a trap might be to simply survive it. The way to successfully deal with a powerful Death Eater may be to bluff him into withdrawing with clever repartee. You will need to evaluate what counts as "success," but don't assume that success means they whomp something on the head and kill it. I wouldn't give a 1st level character experience for running away from a wee mouse, but I'd probably give him experience for having the sense to hide from the tarrasque. Keep in mind, too, that it can be appropriate to give partial awards: you might feel that being halfway successful in dealing with an encounter merits half the experience points being awarded. When in doubt, it is better to award experience points than to withhold them. Giving an extra 200 XP when you weren't sure if the players really deserved the points will not break anything; withholding 200 XP that the players might have deserved is miserly and anti-fun (and the point of the game is fun!). Good luck!