Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Dargeron 05-16-07, 07:51 AM	Hi all, this is my first post in those boards :) I've started DMing a few weeks ago with some friends who have never played DnD before. I've played quite much before (that's why I became the DM now) but always as a player, so I'm finding a few issues that are bugging me. First of all, my players don't really know the rules. I told em they should read at least the player handbook, but they didn't want to, so basically I explained them all the rules. Until now they've been good enough players (I mean, they roleplay, they know how to fight, they have intelligent solutions to my traps and dungeons...) but the campaign is gonna get harder and I don't know if they will stand it. So, do you think I should tell them to read the rules or not play anymore, or is it possible to play a fun and succesful campaign without having actually read the book? The second question: my players are starting to form 2 factions. I mean, in the game (ofc not in real life) they're dividing into 2 groups and becoming enemies of eachother. Yesterday, the druid polymorphed the warrior into a fish, and we had to force him to polymorph the warrior again into his normal shape. My guess is that this will only grow over time, so or should I allow it or should I try to change the situation? I never thought about things like that while I was just a player. Third: Do you know any source of good traps for my dungeons? My players like to solve complicated traps, requiring intelligence and often a paper and a pen; until now I've been using some cool puzzles from games I've played (such as Myst, Lufia...), and also some ideas of my own, but I'd like to know if there's some place where I can find more of them. And the last one: what do you do when one player must leave, but all the rest can (and want to) keep playing? You can't just get rid of the leaving player in the middle of a dungeon, and you can't kill him cause he's coming back next week... Well, I'll appreciate any ideas about those problems, thanks :D
alecthemad 05-16-07, 08:03 AM	My first campaign in 3.0 was with players who did not learn the new rules. I made a point to know all the rules and I would suggest actions to the players from the rulebook. If a player wanted to do something I would ask him what he wanted to accomplish and then try to use the rule to make it happen. As time went on some of my players became rules experts, some gained a working knowledge, and one (my older brother) never even bothered to pick up the rule book but still played his dwarven fighter effectively. So you will have to guide them. As far as the factions I think you need to talk to your players about party harmony. Mention to them that the infighting keeps them from getting more xp and treasure through defeating opponents. Worse comes to worse you can just start having a monster attack every time the party starts in fighting. Make it a tough one. The party will soon realize that you will not tolerate it. The DMG has a long list of traps in it. Just use the index or flip through to find it. If a player misses a game I have them summoned by a powerful spell caster from a parallel material plane. The game goes on without the character and when the player returns I give a short description of what and why he was summoned (ending in a gruesome death like most summoned creatures) and how he found himself back with the party. My players liked the mechanic and I had a little story about an artifact of summoning being contested over by two wizards. They swore to find him one day.
KJW 05-16-07, 08:07 AM	1. Yes. As long as you know the rules there shouldn't be any problems and your players will figure out the rules as the game progresses. While this is annoying, but a fairly common problem, the truth is that D&D is really pretty simple and your players will pick up the rules in time. Most players are lazy when it comes to the rules, but this is to your advantage starting out. :) 2. This is a problem. Don't expect to be able to run longer story arcs till your players mature. Let them get it out of their system and hopefully they will, but from my experience situations like this are instigated by a few problem players (I would begin looking at the druid). You might be able to focus them by giving them more dangerous and potent enemies, but this is often a maturity (sometimes, but more rarely, a boredom) issue. 3. There is this thread (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=674705). I just skimmed it, but I think it has what you are looking for. There are many other threads on these forums as well that have traps so begin here. 4. You have three options: A) have another player run the character, B) you run the character as a NPC, or C) the character is suddenly incapacitated with a cold, allergies, or something that prevents him from continuing. I usually do A, but my players know the rules and are pretty experienced. Still sometimes when no one steps up to run the character I do either B or more often C. It really depends on what fits for you and your group. It's not that big of a deal and life happens so just roll with it.
Dargeron 05-16-07, 08:08 AM	Nice, thanks for the answers. The summoning idea is really cool, I'll definately use it in my campaign^^
geekling 05-16-07, 09:02 AM	So, do you think I should tell them to read the rules or not play anymore, or is it possible to play a fun and succesful campaign without having actually read the book? Sure it is. They'll pick it up eventually and until they do, they'll probably be looking at you to tell them what they can't do and how to go about what they want to do. It's not rocket science - it's just D&D. At the start it'll be up to you to translate between OK... errr... can I wrestle him down and make him give it to us? to 'sure you can, you'll need a grapple <insert quick version of grapple rules here - ie. touch attack -> AoO -> opposed grapple checks> + if there's a rogue "If A is grappling foe you can make sneak attacks" and if there's someone doing ranged attacks "but ranged attacks have a chance to hit A instead of foe." So you want to do that?' Feed the rules to them in bitesized chunks when and if they come up. Plus remember - if the first time they do something like a grapple. They 'win' that encounter - that the grapple makes a noticable difference. They're more likely to remember the grapple rules for the next time. Positive reinforcement and all that. Now-a-days I'm the DM and the resident rules lawyer... and I still haven't read that PHB cover to cover. It's not a very well written book you know. But what it is good for is a reference book where you look up things where and when you need them.
Praesul 05-16-07, 09:39 AM	1) Anti-Rule Lawyers While it's possible for players to play the game without having read the rule-book, I don't think it is your job as the DM to hold their hand through the entire game. If I were you, I would make them at least read the rules that relate to whatever it is their character will be or may eventually do on the field of battle or in skill related siturations. I'm not going to rely on my memory of grapple checks, tripping, bull-rushing, disarming, etc etc every time a PC attempts it and their player refuses to read the rules. 2) Party In-Fighting Some in-fighting can be interesting for role-play value, but it has gotten out of control when a party member turning another party member into a fish or worse killing a fellow party member (unless of course it is agreed to beforehand as part of a plot, or something similar). I would try to deal with the situation out of character, tell the players they are supposed to be a team and to start acting like one. 3) Players Absent but the PC shouldn't be: The summoning idea suggested above is kinda neat, but it would get a little too repetative for my tastes. I have two suggestions for you. First, schedule your game times so you know when they will start and to what hour they will run so that you don't have to worry about people leaving early and so everyone will know when the session is supposed to end. Second, if you have people who want to stay for a couple more hours or so after one person has to leave, you could always create a second campaign where just those people have characters. If any of your players are experienced DMs (or even if one of them wants to give ita shot) you could even play a character and let them DM for a couple hours after one or two other people have to leave.
AndyPan 05-16-07, 10:39 AM	As far as the rules thing goes, I agree with Praesul on having your players at the very least familiarize themselves with the function of their character class. On the same token, you need to have a good idea of how those characters will work, so you'll be able to correct them when they make errors in play, which they will do. I'm no expert DM, not by any stretch of the imagination, and I certainly have not read the PHB or the DMG cover to cover. But I've gained an adequate understanding of the game mechanics that I can usually keep pace with my players. The in-game squabbling... yeah, you'll want to nip that in the bud as soon as possible, especially if it's not adding anything to the plot in general and is either annoying you or making you uncomfortable. Sometimes a little consequence in-game can help to push them back into cooperating, but I think usually, it needs to be done out of game. Case in point. Love my players. They're all a lot of fun. But early in the beginning of the present campaign, every interaction between the characters was like a Three Stooges skit, with this one slapping this one, and this one using her psionic powers to make this one do her bidding. When I was having to repeat stuff over and over because it was being lost in the slapstick, I finally had to call them all out on it. I still have to do so every so often, but on the whole, they're much better about it. As far as missing PCs, I again agree with Praesul, and say that you should have a set beginning and end to the game that everyone agrees with and commits to. Things come up unexpectedly, sure, but a player should be able to let you know when and if they're not able to make it, giving you time enough to make other arrangements, whether that's playing the character as an NPC, having one of the other players play the character for the night, or postpone the game. Having a backup campaign to play with players that remain after the main session could be fun, but only if you have the time or the inclination to prep more than one game. Good luck with your game!
Ogg 05-16-07, 10:43 AM	Biggest problem with in fighting is it often degenerates to bullying. You as a DM don't have to put up with it remember it's your world. There's different solutions here's a few suggestions: 1) divine intervention Does the fighter have a god? You could take him into another room & ask him if he prays to his god. Roll a few dice when he gets back mumble & nod. Have the player throw a die or 2. Have an avatar of the god. Maybe a nice angelic figure appear. Dispel the polymorph & chastise the druid for not working together. This gets tedious if it's an everyday fix but it makes for a good reminder that there are others watching. Another option is the trouble makers god can point out how it's annoyed at the trouble maker. You don't want to make your god angry, especially a divine caster. Their gods do decide what spells they get. Oh you wanted ploymorph other...hmm for some reason a cure spell came into your mind instead. 2) The "helpful" artifact Have an artifact that has a mind of it's own that stays mostly quiet except for when people start fighting then it flares up. 3) The wandering NPC Have the token Gandolf figure who shows up to steer the players in the right path. An elder druid or treant would be perfect if the druid is the only problem maker. 4)A unified threat The enemy of my enemy is my enemy. Often when players start to quibble it's because their bored. What would happen if right after the druid polymorphed the fighter they were attacked? The attackers don't even notice the fighter in his new form but look there's a druid to beat on! If only he had a fighter to protect him. Spellcasters often will feel superior but don't give them a chance to recover spells & watch what happens. All of a sudden those non-casters are very handy. ---------------------------- Absent players. Yeah that's an issue. I do suggest you do not give players expereince that aren't there or at least half. There should be some reward for actually showing up. I tend to say the person wandered off unless they don't show for more then one week. I've done some pretty cruel things to people who miss more then one week. They've been found unconscious from poison in a spider web later in the dungeon or falling on thru rat tunnels. Basically as a DM it's up to you. If it's no issue just say "They wandered off" or "they just vanished" or "they are locked in some sort of time stop that you can't interact with" if the player missing or leaving is an annoyance feel free to make them waitin on getting to jump back into the action. Hope this helps
Xykon 05-18-07, 04:05 AM	1. Re: Player familiarization. Totally agree with Praesul, and on top of that you may need to TELL them what part they should be familiar with. For Example: Wizard dude should be familiar with... a. the spells that he prepared b. the skill "Spellcraft" While Cleric dude should be familiar with... a. the spells that he prepared b. his spontaneous casting healing ability 2. In game fighting Its a 50/50 thing. If the reason for the fight (a) falls within the alignment of the PC's in the fight and (b) Is within their loyalties (note: know their group and personal loyalty), then i usually let them slug it off. If not, either XP penalty or Deus Ex Machina - i.e. "Charles is unknowingly infected by this rabid disease that makes him unruly.". My reason for such judgement is that the offending PC is just making trouble and didn't really think about his actions at all.
wizarddog 05-18-07, 07:43 AM	Hi all, this is my first post in those boards : And the last one: what do you do when one player must leave, but all the rest can (and want to) keep playing? You can't just get rid of the leaving player in the middle of a dungeon, and you can't kill him cause he's coming back next week... The technique I always liked was Ghosting. The character is with the party but is not used in combat and saves. They are tied to the fate of the party (meaning they are affected by TPK, curses, diseases, poison, imprisonment) but not l damage from events. If they are an integral part of the plot then they become NPC but don't bother rolling things or allow interaction on a physical level. They can't have items stolen, use magic items, spells, abilities, etc. If they posses an item that is part of the plot they transfer it to another PC. If they happen to have been the cleric then the party will have to deal with the inactivity though you could rule every rest period the appropriate heal and restoration spells of the clerics level can be applied 1/day. (A 3rd lv cleric has Cure serious wounds and can have that cast on 1 or 2 players) They receive no XP till the player returns. They don't receive treasure (unless the PC's set it aside).