Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Talonos 03-25-04, 08:55 AM	I know your first response: Find the four best players, and kick out the rest. Unfortunately, it's not that simple. I run the school's role-playing club. According to school policy, you are not allowed to have an "Exclusive" School club, either anybody is invited, or nobody is invited. At first, I had a group of six people, which was large because I have only ever DMed 3 at a time before. But at the first session, six people showed up, each requiring their share of spotlight time. Three sessions later, it's up to eleven! I can't deal with that amount of people! Last hour and a half session, we only got through 4 combat rounds. Some import things to note: * About 6 of these eleven people are absolute newbies. * The reason all 11 people want to play with me is that I am the only one willing to DM, so we can't split into two smaller groups. * Nobody is having any fun, but the bad players are having more fun than the good players. * There is a group of four people that see the club as a "Get together and socialize" time, meaning that they aren’t disappointed at getting only 4 turns, because the turns are minor importance compared to talking with friends. *This means that the people who want to play will leave out of frustration, while those four people will stay, because it doesn't matter to them. * This means that in about two weeks (Which is my estimate of when patiences will run out) The club will collapse on itself, and I will be stuck DMing a group of people who don't really want to play anyway. AND I CAN'T KICK THEM OUT, or the principal will shut the club down! A girl who is into acting came in to see role-playing club. She would have been a great player in an urban, Play-by-your-wits adventure. She said later that "Role-playing" is actually screaming at each other and rolling dice, and is pretty stupid. Help. Please, please help me. This isn't how D&D is supposed to be. :(
Pandaboy 03-25-04, 09:06 AM	Talk to your principal. Tell him that you have to split up the group (for the above reasons) but that you'll give everyone equal time (just not at the same time). Compare it to monopoly. You could play it with 12 people, there just wouldn't be much point.
Jere_RB 03-25-04, 09:16 AM	Assuming you aren't roleplaying every day of the week, best bet would be to split them up to different days. It wouldn't be kicking them out of the club, since they are still invited to play, but instead more like schedule management. If the principal asks, tell him that this particular kind of game breaks down and becomes non-fun if too many people are playing at once, so you need to do this in order to ensure that everyone really has a chance to play. Also, you could allow everyone into the clubroom at once but cordon a certain portion of it off for a smaller group to again help group size. Again, group gets constricted, plus you are still letting people join the club as they wish. Lastly, here's a good analogy to help convey to your principal exactly why you need to do this. The game is setup kind of like a computer system; the players feed what their characters are doing to the computer (the DM) and he informs them of the consequence of their actions. Should be simple. But imagine if four people are all trying to use the computer at once. Things get slowed down. Now imagine 12+ people are all trying to use one computer at the same time, with one person going to cnn, one going to playboy, one wanting to use kazaa, another going to an amatuer site, etc, etc. That should get the point across.
John Bezo 03-25-04, 09:17 AM	You ask for help and then tell us you can't do the only things that will fix you club. Wake up. and decide wether you are running a club or a game group. If you are running the club then step up and make a decision on how and when people can join, 1 a month, after they sit in and watch for a while ... and then decide how many people can sit in on any given group. after that you have to get other people to dm. figure out a way to rotate or something. but for 13 people there should be at least 3 groups if not 4. Now I guess your in high school right... Does your school require a adult to be present or near by if a club is meeting on school property. Like a moderator or something. If so you could ask them to talk to the group if you feel you won't be able to hash things out by your selves. If you decide that you are running your group and thats it. then don't play at school and only take the peole you want with you. J. I was vice pres of my schools RPG club, and we had 35 people, 7 different games/groups and you could switch groups at anytime. But we had the advangtage of a strong leader, and a good teacher on our side to help organize things and fight off the detracters. This was in the early 90's in the midwest in a chatholic hs. We in general were not liked.
Thomar_of_Uointer 03-25-04, 09:21 AM	Charge dues. Like 10$ for pizza or book money or something. It will weed out about half of them.
airhead 03-25-04, 09:39 AM	Originally posted by John Bezo ...after that you have to get other people to dm... I can DM about 6 other players. But that is about my maximum. I am not claiming to be great, but my groups have fun. A new DM shouldn't have more than 4 players. Get some to step up to the big chair. Then...your job now is to rotate amonst the tables and help the new DM's with odd rules calls, etc. Set up a code of conduct. Enforce it. Your gamers are there to play. The detractors are going to kill it for everyone. Worse comes to worse, make their lives miserable. "while you were talking about your hair to her, a troll killed you both. Please set over in the corner and roll new characters."
Thorndjl 03-25-04, 09:39 AM	Make someone else DM also or the dues thing is good too. I mean these people are probably using your books after all. Though in my experience with clubs, 1st new people drop out after a month or two. 2nd they don't work
Talonos 03-25-04, 10:43 AM	Assuming you aren't roleplaying every day of the week, best bet would be to split them up to different days. That might work. I could tailor it according to the players, too. Socializing type players get, say, tuesday, where you causally beat on monsters for nearly no reason, and the real players get a real campaign. Only then I would be running two groups.Now I guess you're in high school, right... Does your school require a adult to be present or near by if a club is meeting on school property? Yeah. He doesn't have any real power, though. He is one of those people straight out of college, and, in fact, he is one of the players. One of my best, too! Wake up. and decide wether you are running a club or a game group. Theoretically, both. But only theoretically. Make someone else DM I'll try as hard as I can. Maybe if I can convince the most popular guy that he can be a DM, the social type players will flock to him, and I can keep the good players. Though in my experience with clubs... they don't work Yep. Mine too. Hopefully I can make it work. Are there any ways to convince the bad players that they don't want to play? Are there any ways of discouraging a person to come without out and out rejecting them? Do you have any suggestions on how to convince someone to become a fledgeling DM? Any other ideas? And If it ends up that I can't fix the casue, does anybody have ideas on how to cure the symptoms? What's the biggest gruop you DMed, and how did you make it work? Are there any ways to handle large scale fight scenes? How do you run a group consisting of both casual and serious gamers? Thanks a lot. ~Talonos
Tisner44 03-25-04, 10:56 AM	Try a game of all role playing...very little dice roling and combat. Now there is no longer a need for turns. Some of the less serious one's may leave for the lack of excitement. Also for the ones that think it is social hour, talk to other club leaders about what they do and if you can kick them out for not participating. I'm sure some clubs have rules and stuff that says how much you have to participate in a club. The only other option is to teach someone how to DM. If you have an experienced player that knows the rules all you have to give them is a storyline to use. You will probably have to do most of the scripting, but if he gets all of the hack and slash types, a scripted story line won't bother them.
Temmogen 03-25-04, 11:07 AM	Originally posted by Talonos What's the biggest gruop you DMed, and how did you make it work? Are there any ways to handle large scale fight scenes? How do you run a group consisting of both casual and serious gamers? Largest group I've DM'd was 12 members, it's not easy but it can be done. I only held it together for about 3 weeks, then I passed the reins to a friendlier DM, too many players for me, so I started a smaller game at my house. Large scale fights require small modifacations, just to streamline things. Group your baddies into initiative groups,and attack as a group whenever possible. Make one attack roll per group if things move too slow. Dont be afraid to fudge rolls in the PCs favor if you think they are doing well. As for your casual gamer issues, do you want to keep them, or weed them out? If ya want to keep them start them as a second group all thier own, on a different day. I you want to be rid of them...kill thier characters as often as possible, be really strict with the rules, and make them pay attention. They should tire out in a week or so. :behold:
Soichiro Arima 03-25-04, 11:09 AM	I tryed starting a D&D club at a school I used to go to and it failed miserably. Everyone who showed up was a DM and all we ended up doing is sitting around working on are campaign setting colaberating with each other on them dispite the fact we didnt have any players, No one wanted to play in each othes campaigns because we didnt think that the other peoples were any good, ether to many stupid house rules or not our style of game. My suggestion is to give up, sure in a perfect world we can play D&D at school everyday but in reality if we do it at school the medaling teachers will want to control it and make it so anyone and everyone can play too and well some people are fit to play D&D and some are not. Your unlucky to be stuck with a few to many "are nots".
Llewelynn 03-25-04, 11:23 AM	I think you need to work on a different approach. (I had one of these sorts of clubs, way back when.) As the only experienced DM, change your position to being a coach and rules authority. Get two of the people to be DM's. It doesn't matter if they don't want to. The option is this: either 2 people learn to be DM's, or we don't play. If you don't play, some will quit. Start with the ones that are left. Otherwise, once 2 volunteers are picked out, teach them how to DM. Work with the sections about running a game in the DMG. Each week, write up a couple short scenarios. Make plot branches to keep it simple. Help them run the scenarios and learn about creating a story and how to apply the rules. It's a great chance to get some people involved in the game, and it'll be a lot of work. Still, it's less work than trying to DM a whole pack of people.
John Bezo 03-25-04, 11:36 AM	Originally posted by Talonos Yeah. He doesn't have any real power, though. He is one of those people straight out of college, and, in fact, he is one of the players. One of my best, too! Problem number 1. the only reason he has no power is that he is playing instead of doing his job. IMHO he should be handling this instead of you. Or stepping in now that there is a problem. His biggest mistake is playing the game. As "the adlut in charge" he should be mediating conflicts with in the group, helping to organize the clubs rules and helping to enforce them. And maybe giving suggestions and role playing tips, and maybe rules interpitations but never should he play in any one group. By doing so he loses all athority. If outside of the club, you want to run a game and have him join cool. but in the club at school he shouldn't be playing. your in deep kid. Sorry J.
Vyvyan Basterd 03-25-04, 11:52 AM	Can you set up bylaws for your club? One bylaw could limit the number of players at a table. Make the number between 5 and 7 (including DM). If the people at the 'overflow' tables wish to do more than talk about D&D (or other gossip), then they must make an effort to find a DM. Faced with either having to DM or not play, anyone serious enough about the game will find a way to play. Your campaign does not have to equal a club, just a subset thereof. I ran campaigns at a local hobby store for years. The owner had a 'no exclusion' clause for the club, but you could set size limits. If you had an open space you could not turn anyone away. But if you were full, others would be put on a waiting list or find another game.