A freelancer? [Archive] - Wizards Community

A freelancer? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
NorthWind
06-30-07, 11:07 PM Alright, I'm planning a campaign for the summer in the campaign setting I've got up on the Campaign Workshop forum, and one of my previous players asked me this evening if he could play a "beginner" class. The best analogy I could think of was the Final Fantasy freelancer job. He likened it to Bilbo starting out in The Hobbit starting out as a normal hobbit, but as he adventured, he became competent.

He described it as being a character that had no particular class yet, but would become, say, an archer or a magician as he or she leveled up. He wants the character to start out as an ordinary, generic guy who's been thrust into a heroic situation, and to level up and learn swordplay, or magic, or pickpocketing, or what have you.

The thing is, he wants to make his own base class for this, although I don't believe it necessary - I'm sure there must be a way for him to get this effect without having to go through the trouble of building a new class. Thanks for taking the time to read this, any suggestions would be appreciated.
Malcaor
06-30-07, 11:17 PM You could have him start as a lvl 1 Commoner (NPC class) then replace that class when he attains 500 xp (what would be the xp needed b4 level 1). 500xp doesn't seem like much, but it isn't easy to get when you have no skills to get it with.

You could allow him to make his own class, just double check he isn't gaining any kind of mechanical benefit from it.
Salla
06-30-07, 11:21 PM I'd say that his or her generic life occurs during backstory, and he can create what he wants now and come up with the dramatic event that prompted his first heroic level, myself. :)
Holy_Avenger_441
06-30-07, 11:45 PM I used the paragon clases from unearthed arcana, although thats only good if you have the book.
Rosisha
07-01-07, 10:59 AM Yeah the three generic classes in Unearthed Arcana are your best bet. I have also been working on a similar idea for my group. They want to have a very low powered "local boy done good" kind of campaign, so I've been working on a "commoner" class. It's hard, but if you want what I have, just PM me.

Rosisha
NorthWind
07-01-07, 02:20 PM Alright, in the order of postings so far (thanks for the responses, by the way)

Malcaor: Hmm...well, the thing is, he's going to be playing with a party of standard classes, so I'm worried about having him start as a commoner. What he really wants is a character like Peter Pevensie, who walks into a wardrobe, finds Narnia, and goes from schoolboy to king.

Salla: Yeah, I tried that. I told him that you could play a regular class, and work it out so that either he's an apprentice, or, like you said, that's all in the background. He...didn't buy it, unfortunately.

Holy Avenger 441: Well, Unearthed Arcana is available on the SRD, so that's not a problem. Only, he wants to play a character that can't do anything yet, but will eventually gain whatever. I considered that, and I may just have him do that.

Rosisha: I recommended he look at the Generic Classes, too. In all honesty, I've been wanting to run a game with them someday, but my Paladin PC probably wouldn't hear of it. But, if you think the Generic Classes would be on par with the standard ones, I'd consider that, too. Problem is, when I explained them, his problem seemed to be that "they could do stuff already"

The heart of the problem is that he wants to play some random kid who gets pulled into adventure and learns his skills the hard way. But without any actual abilities such as spellcasting, swordplay, etc. Now, I'm strongly inclined to nix this and request that he play a base class, but I don't want to do that just yet if I can help it.
Pegasos989
07-01-07, 05:34 PM It can't be done.

That's definite.

He wants that he doesn't do anything yet but can become something. He would propably like to start out avoiding everything and finding clever ways until he is capable of something.

However, he starts in a standard team that will most likely want to be in combat from the first level on and will be bored if none is available.

These two things can't be combined:
a) Other players wanting to be heroic combatants
b) One player wanting to play something that avoids heroic combats and just tries to find his own thing
Symar
07-01-07, 06:07 PM Does he want to eventually do something as yet unstated, or does he want to eventually do a little of everything?
Anathema
07-01-07, 06:31 PM As he's in a party of adventurers, having no class would make it exceedingly difficult for him to survive. Or at least to contribute.

I would recommed that he choose one of the three 'simple classes', as outlined under Age on PHB 109. Barbarian, Rogue, & Sorcerer are all considered the classes you need the least professional training in as reflected by their starting ages. A human is age 16-19 when starting out with one of these classes. He can multi-class or gain a PrC later if he wants to specialize.

Anything else should be encouraged to be acted out as roleplay, not mechanics .. which I think is one of the issues with a rules heavy system like D&D .. people make rules paramount over roleplay, when in fact the rules don't matter that much.
Rosisha
07-01-07, 07:48 PM Okay I have another idea, but I am not sure how well this will work. But lets see what we can do!

The Apprentice
The Apprentice is a young adult between the age of 11 and 14 who goes out in the world to find a master to teach him. They start off only with the ability to wield a dagger, club, sling, or any other weapon that could be learned while running around in a medieval city. However, they use these weapons at a -1 to damage and a -1 to attack. This represents their lack of actual combat training.

Though they gain experience, they will not gain abilities without training. Training must come from an experienced NPC or player character.

Such characters tend to be lantern bearers, cooks assistances, and other low level rolls. They have one skill, but can only have 1 point + 1 point/level in that skill. Since this represents all their skill points, it is not a problem. This skill must be a craft skill.

They have 1d4 hit points. And only a commoner's starting gear.

Future Roll
The player must choose a class and build towards that class. Upon reaching 500 xp, they must train with a knowledgeable person. This gives them an NPC class: Adept, Expert, or Warrior.

Upon reaching second level they must then take a normal class with training. They are treated as a 2nd level <NPC Class> 1/<PC Class> 1. All advancement from that point onwards can only be in the PC class.

Further, the NPC class MUST relate to their PC class. An adept to a sorc, cleric, wiz, druid. A warrior to a fighter, paladin, ranger. An expert to a rogue or bard.

~ R
NorthWind
07-01-07, 07:53 PM It can't be done.

...start out avoiding everything and finding clever ways until he is capable of something.

...These two things can't be combined

Right, well, I was afraid of that. I had suspicions of this, but I decided to let him try and design the class. Problem is, he's not clever enough (no offense to the guy, but he's not a very experienced gamer) to manage to survive as what he's aiming for.
Does he want to eventually do something as yet unstated, or does he want to eventually do a little of everything?
I think what he wants is to start out with nothing, and eventually become one of the main classes, or get some sort of niche. He wants the PC to be, like I mentioned above, analogous to the heroes of books like The Chronicles of Narnia, or The Hobbit, or any other nobody-turned-hero type of character.

As he's in a party of adventurers, having no class would make it exceedingly difficult for him to survive ... when in fact the rules don't matter that much.
Right, I would do the same, only a Rogue is already a rogue. Therein lies the problem: he wants his PC to become a clever thief, or whatever. Now, I suggested that this be incorporated into backstory, or to play whatever standard class as a beginner or apprentice, but...

All in all, I think what he's aiming for specifically is beyond his abilities to write, and mine to handle properly in a party of normal heroes.

Thanks for the feedback, all. I just wanted to make sure that there wasn't a way to manage this before I turned him down.
Anathema
07-01-07, 07:59 PM That's my point though. Just because he's already a rogue by the rules, doesn't mean he's capable enough of being deemed a successful thief. After all, he's only level 1.

How learned he is of the world is a product of his background and roleplaying, far more than mechanics.
NorthWind
07-02-07, 10:34 AM Yeah, I see what you mean. But he wanted his character to have no specific niche. That is to say, he wants to play a "classless" character.

I spoke with him again last night, and asked him to take another look at the Racial Paragon classes. Turns out that a human Racial Paragon was exactly what he was looking for.

Again, thanks for your input, and Rosisha, that apprentice idea looks pretty nice, I'll need to remember that.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
NorthWind 06-30-07, 11:07 PM	Alright, I'm planning a campaign for the summer in the campaign setting I've got up on the Campaign Workshop forum, and one of my previous players asked me this evening if he could play a "beginner" class. The best analogy I could think of was the Final Fantasy freelancer job. He likened it to Bilbo starting out in The Hobbit starting out as a normal hobbit, but as he adventured, he became competent. He described it as being a character that had no particular class yet, but would become, say, an archer or a magician as he or she leveled up. He wants the character to start out as an ordinary, generic guy who's been thrust into a heroic situation, and to level up and learn swordplay, or magic, or pickpocketing, or what have you. The thing is, he wants to make his own base class for this, although I don't believe it necessary - I'm sure there must be a way for him to get this effect without having to go through the trouble of building a new class. Thanks for taking the time to read this, any suggestions would be appreciated.
Malcaor 06-30-07, 11:17 PM	You could have him start as a lvl 1 Commoner (NPC class) then replace that class when he attains 500 xp (what would be the xp needed b4 level 1). 500xp doesn't seem like much, but it isn't easy to get when you have no skills to get it with. You could allow him to make his own class, just double check he isn't gaining any kind of mechanical benefit from it.
Salla 06-30-07, 11:21 PM	I'd say that his or her generic life occurs during backstory, and he can create what he wants now and come up with the dramatic event that prompted his first heroic level, myself. :)
Holy_Avenger_441 06-30-07, 11:45 PM	I used the paragon clases from unearthed arcana, although thats only good if you have the book.
Rosisha 07-01-07, 10:59 AM	Yeah the three generic classes in Unearthed Arcana are your best bet. I have also been working on a similar idea for my group. They want to have a very low powered "local boy done good" kind of campaign, so I've been working on a "commoner" class. It's hard, but if you want what I have, just PM me. Rosisha
NorthWind 07-01-07, 02:20 PM	Alright, in the order of postings so far (thanks for the responses, by the way) Malcaor: Hmm...well, the thing is, he's going to be playing with a party of standard classes, so I'm worried about having him start as a commoner. What he really wants is a character like Peter Pevensie, who walks into a wardrobe, finds Narnia, and goes from schoolboy to king. Salla: Yeah, I tried that. I told him that you could play a regular class, and work it out so that either he's an apprentice, or, like you said, that's all in the background. He...didn't buy it, unfortunately. Holy Avenger 441: Well, Unearthed Arcana is available on the SRD, so that's not a problem. Only, he wants to play a character that can't do anything yet, but will eventually gain whatever. I considered that, and I may just have him do that. Rosisha: I recommended he look at the Generic Classes, too. In all honesty, I've been wanting to run a game with them someday, but my Paladin PC probably wouldn't hear of it. But, if you think the Generic Classes would be on par with the standard ones, I'd consider that, too. Problem is, when I explained them, his problem seemed to be that "they could do stuff already" The heart of the problem is that he wants to play some random kid who gets pulled into adventure and learns his skills the hard way. But without any actual abilities such as spellcasting, swordplay, etc. Now, I'm strongly inclined to nix this and request that he play a base class, but I don't want to do that just yet if I can help it.
Pegasos989 07-01-07, 05:34 PM	It can't be done. That's definite. He wants that he doesn't do anything yet but can become something. He would propably like to start out avoiding everything and finding clever ways until he is capable of something. However, he starts in a standard team that will most likely want to be in combat from the first level on and will be bored if none is available. These two things can't be combined: a) Other players wanting to be heroic combatants b) One player wanting to play something that avoids heroic combats and just tries to find his own thing
Symar 07-01-07, 06:07 PM	Does he want to eventually do something as yet unstated, or does he want to eventually do a little of everything?
Anathema 07-01-07, 06:31 PM	As he's in a party of adventurers, having no class would make it exceedingly difficult for him to survive. Or at least to contribute. I would recommed that he choose one of the three 'simple classes', as outlined under Age on PHB 109. Barbarian, Rogue, & Sorcerer are all considered the classes you need the least professional training in as reflected by their starting ages. A human is age 16-19 when starting out with one of these classes. He can multi-class or gain a PrC later if he wants to specialize. Anything else should be encouraged to be acted out as roleplay, not mechanics .. which I think is one of the issues with a rules heavy system like D&D .. people make rules paramount over roleplay, when in fact the rules don't matter that much.
Rosisha 07-01-07, 07:48 PM	Okay I have another idea, but I am not sure how well this will work. But lets see what we can do! The Apprentice The Apprentice is a young adult between the age of 11 and 14 who goes out in the world to find a master to teach him. They start off only with the ability to wield a dagger, club, sling, or any other weapon that could be learned while running around in a medieval city. However, they use these weapons at a -1 to damage and a -1 to attack. This represents their lack of actual combat training. Though they gain experience, they will not gain abilities without training. Training must come from an experienced NPC or player character. Such characters tend to be lantern bearers, cooks assistances, and other low level rolls. They have one skill, but can only have 1 point + 1 point/level in that skill. Since this represents all their skill points, it is not a problem. This skill must be a craft skill. They have 1d4 hit points. And only a commoner's starting gear. Future Roll The player must choose a class and build towards that class. Upon reaching 500 xp, they must train with a knowledgeable person. This gives them an NPC class: Adept, Expert, or Warrior. Upon reaching second level they must then take a normal class with training. They are treated as a 2nd level <NPC Class> 1/<PC Class> 1. All advancement from that point onwards can only be in the PC class. Further, the NPC class MUST relate to their PC class. An adept to a sorc, cleric, wiz, druid. A warrior to a fighter, paladin, ranger. An expert to a rogue or bard. ~ R
NorthWind 07-01-07, 07:53 PM	It can't be done. ...start out avoiding everything and finding clever ways until he is capable of something. ...These two things can't be combined Right, well, I was afraid of that. I had suspicions of this, but I decided to let him try and design the class. Problem is, he's not clever enough (no offense to the guy, but he's not a very experienced gamer) to manage to survive as what he's aiming for. Does he want to eventually do something as yet unstated, or does he want to eventually do a little of everything? I think what he wants is to start out with nothing, and eventually become one of the main classes, or get some sort of niche. He wants the PC to be, like I mentioned above, analogous to the heroes of books like The Chronicles of Narnia, or The Hobbit, or any other nobody-turned-hero type of character. As he's in a party of adventurers, having no class would make it exceedingly difficult for him to survive ... when in fact the rules don't matter that much. Right, I would do the same, only a Rogue is already a rogue. Therein lies the problem: he wants his PC to become a clever thief, or whatever. Now, I suggested that this be incorporated into backstory, or to play whatever standard class as a beginner or apprentice, but... All in all, I think what he's aiming for specifically is beyond his abilities to write, and mine to handle properly in a party of normal heroes. Thanks for the feedback, all. I just wanted to make sure that there wasn't a way to manage this before I turned him down.
Anathema 07-01-07, 07:59 PM	That's my point though. Just because he's already a rogue by the rules, doesn't mean he's capable enough of being deemed a successful thief. After all, he's only level 1. How learned he is of the world is a product of his background and roleplaying, far more than mechanics.
NorthWind 07-02-07, 10:34 AM	Yeah, I see what you mean. But he wanted his character to have no specific niche. That is to say, he wants to play a "classless" character. I spoke with him again last night, and asked him to take another look at the Racial Paragon classes. Turns out that a human Racial Paragon was exactly what he was looking for. Again, thanks for your input, and Rosisha, that apprentice idea looks pretty nice, I'll need to remember that.