A game of skill [Archive] - Wizards Community

A game of skill [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
hammer_hand
11-13-05, 04:29 AM Now me and my friend are taking it in turns to DM, both of us playing aand writing heavy RP adventures. Mine revolves mainly around detective work but I wanted to add a sort of mini game to make it more interesting and as a way of winning information. I know that the best choice would probably be the new three dragon ante but at the moment I am broke and due to start my campaign before having any chance of money. What can I do?
Fixxxer
11-13-05, 07:26 AM If nothing else, you could have games of dice or blackjack. I understand the desire to have more fantastic games, but if you're broke, no one's going to blame you for using dominoes instead of anachronism.
Escef
11-13-05, 07:57 AM I'd advise against dice games, those really are games of luck. Blackjack does have a skill element, but randomness is still a very potent variable. A true game of skill in D&D would involve attack rolls (darts, pool) or skill checks (climbing a wall as fast as one can, first to craft a masterwork weapon, deciphering a message in an obscure language).

Edit: Of course, since even checks require rolls, there is still a very large luck element involved.
hammer_hand
11-13-05, 08:44 AM Thnx dudes! I've now got a few ideas:
1)Obstacle course kind of race
2)Dice game with a bluff check to increase your rolls, symbolising cheating
3)Arm wrerstling
Are these good ideas or is there a better alternative?
Escef
11-13-05, 08:54 AM Thnx dudes! I've now got a few ideas:
1)Obstacle course kind of race
2)Dice game with a bluff check to increase your rolls, symbolising cheating
3)Arm wrerstling
Are these good ideas or is there a better alternative?

1 and 2 are fine, but 3 is used as a specific example of something that doesn't require any rolls or the like, the strongest just plain wins. (in the event of a tie, I'd use Con as a tiebreaker). I suppose it is still ok and all, but I wouldn't use it to decide anything major. (And I wouldn't call it a contest of skill.)

I could definately see your first option using jump, climb, balance, and tumble checks. A great workout for a rogue.
hammer_hand
11-13-05, 08:56 AM One problem I have is that I'm DMing a solo campaign with a human wizard. Is there any kind of ideas for a spell based game out there?
Escef
11-13-05, 09:03 AM You could use the wizard's dueling rules found in the Forgotten Realms Campaign Sourcebook. (I don't know if they've been reprinted elsewhere since, I think I first saw them in the 2e Player's Option: Spells and Magic).
hammer_hand
11-13-05, 10:56 AM I don't want a duel as such, just a game or competition where the loser is still alive! Maybe opening a heavily warded door by casting 5 specific spells on it but you have to work out which spells to use.
Escef
11-13-05, 11:51 AM I don't want a duel as such, just a game or competition where the loser is still alive!

The wizards' duelling rules allow this. Two wizards could easily kill each other elsewise.
hammer_hand
11-13-05, 11:56 AM The wizards' duelling rules allow this. Two wizards could easily kill each other elsewise.
Sorry i'm not familiar with the rules but I'm still dubious about an out and out duel.
Planar Wanderer
11-13-05, 12:19 PM One problem I have is that I'm DMing a solo campaign with a human wizard. Is there any kind of ideas for a spell based game out there?

Perhaps a "steady hand" game using mage hand? you could use walls of fire and something flammable as the object: try to get the item to the end of course, since it would have to be run off dex checks it doesn't really come under the heading of a skill game though and I'm guessing you probably don't want to do card games with a deck of many things (technically spell based but a really bad idea unless you are planning on forever earning the title of "evil DM").Perhaps tying in with the obstacle course mentioned earlier you could have a few puzzles to be solved with spells anything from fetching something that is placed out of reach (could be mage handed, you could fly up etc.) and theres always good fun in the old riddles or how about a puzzle that needs you to scry on another area to solve it.

right now I'm juyst pulling things off the top of my head so some may not be the best ideas but they're more intended as "food for thought"
hammer_hand
11-13-05, 12:31 PM Liking the idea of a magic obstacle course. My plan for it goes thus: get the wooden key too you through a wall of fire to open door 1, disbelieve image of an illusion of a very alluring lover or fall down a hidden pit, cast five spells on a door to open it (these are depicted by symbols such as a snow flake for a ray of frost or a skull for cause fear etc.) and finally solve a riddle from an Andro Sphinx with a phobia to blood.
Eliza_Stormwhisper
11-13-05, 12:39 PM Conjurer's chess, as presented in the Complete Warrior involves strategy and luck. You can summon any "level" of monster, and the strategy applies by your decisions of how powerful a monster to summon, since by the rules of the game you must summon the monster without knowing what your opponent has summoned. Assuming two 20th-level conjurers dueling, one could cast Summon Monster IX, for power, while the other casts Summon Monster I in hopes that the pitiful summoned monster will waste time of the more powerful one's spell.

I ran a game session once where the party wizard entered a conjurer's chess tournament. It was fun.
On_the_wings_of_TPK
11-13-05, 12:43 PM You could also go with a game of conjurors chess. Or maybe a riddle. the wizard could do the obsticle course, just include lots of riddles and puzzle based obsticles.

The general just of a mage duel is as follows:

An area is cordoned off for the duel. Any wizard to leave the are after entering immediately forfits. All spell and spell effects immedaitely end once they leave the area as well. Both wizards decide on how many rounds they are going to take to prepare and then enter the area. While in the area all spells and summoned monsters deal only subdual half damage. A death effect, such as fingure of death, halves the wizards current hit point total, subdual of course. The wizard who drops his oppent to zero winns.

Try making rules for DND poker...Lots of skill in that game.
Escef
11-13-05, 06:33 PM Sorry i'm not familiar with the rules but I'm still dubious about an out and out duel.

Look it up next time your in a bookstore. It's either in the Forgotten Realms Campaign Sourcebook or Magic of Faerun. If you like the rules, great! If not, that's ok too. :D
MessiahOmega
11-13-05, 10:02 PM i know its more rougish, but a dice game would use slight of hand to cheat at dice and cards i would think, though bluff would be good i suppose.

what about a game that uses spellcraft and arcane knowledge ? or, in one of the Drizz't books, two wizards took it in turns of trying to destroy zombie things, one would cast a spell and try to out do the other. you could do it like this

each caster takes a turn to cast a spell at some targets (undead would be good, but objects would be ok) in a display of arcaneness

effectiveness of display= spell level+caster level+spell craft.

the opponant rolls caster level+knowledge arcane+sense motive

if the caster beats the opponant on a d20 roll plus the above stuff, then the opponant is suitably impressed with the wizards skill
if the opponant wins, then its their turn to cast.

somthing like that would be cool.
prozacman
11-14-05, 04:28 AM didnt read everything, so sorry if someone already mentioned this, BUT

i have a rogue who loves to cheat people in games, he's a big fan of card games. so he often challenges people to blackjack at high stakes.

The Dm ruled that i had to make a sleight of hand opposed by my opponents spot check. depending of the degree of my success (aka, how high i rolled) i got X number of cards (my choice) to sit on my lap, and the rest were delt randomly by the DM.

of course after 3 blackjacks in a row.. we'll its real hard to convince them i wasnt cheating

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
hammer_hand 11-13-05, 04:29 AM	Now me and my friend are taking it in turns to DM, both of us playing aand writing heavy RP adventures. Mine revolves mainly around detective work but I wanted to add a sort of mini game to make it more interesting and as a way of winning information. I know that the best choice would probably be the new three dragon ante but at the moment I am broke and due to start my campaign before having any chance of money. What can I do?
Fixxxer 11-13-05, 07:26 AM	If nothing else, you could have games of dice or blackjack. I understand the desire to have more fantastic games, but if you're broke, no one's going to blame you for using dominoes instead of anachronism.
Escef 11-13-05, 07:57 AM	I'd advise against dice games, those really are games of luck. Blackjack does have a skill element, but randomness is still a very potent variable. A true game of skill in D&D would involve attack rolls (darts, pool) or skill checks (climbing a wall as fast as one can, first to craft a masterwork weapon, deciphering a message in an obscure language). Edit: Of course, since even checks require rolls, there is still a very large luck element involved.
hammer_hand 11-13-05, 08:44 AM	Thnx dudes! I've now got a few ideas: 1)Obstacle course kind of race 2)Dice game with a bluff check to increase your rolls, symbolising cheating 3)Arm wrerstling Are these good ideas or is there a better alternative?
Escef 11-13-05, 08:54 AM	Thnx dudes! I've now got a few ideas: 1)Obstacle course kind of race 2)Dice game with a bluff check to increase your rolls, symbolising cheating 3)Arm wrerstling Are these good ideas or is there a better alternative? 1 and 2 are fine, but 3 is used as a specific example of something that doesn't require any rolls or the like, the strongest just plain wins. (in the event of a tie, I'd use Con as a tiebreaker). I suppose it is still ok and all, but I wouldn't use it to decide anything major. (And I wouldn't call it a contest of skill.) I could definately see your first option using jump, climb, balance, and tumble checks. A great workout for a rogue.
hammer_hand 11-13-05, 08:56 AM	One problem I have is that I'm DMing a solo campaign with a human wizard. Is there any kind of ideas for a spell based game out there?
Escef 11-13-05, 09:03 AM	You could use the wizard's dueling rules found in the Forgotten Realms Campaign Sourcebook. (I don't know if they've been reprinted elsewhere since, I think I first saw them in the 2e Player's Option: Spells and Magic).
hammer_hand 11-13-05, 10:56 AM	I don't want a duel as such, just a game or competition where the loser is still alive! Maybe opening a heavily warded door by casting 5 specific spells on it but you have to work out which spells to use.
Escef 11-13-05, 11:51 AM	I don't want a duel as such, just a game or competition where the loser is still alive! The wizards' duelling rules allow this. Two wizards could easily kill each other elsewise.
hammer_hand 11-13-05, 11:56 AM	The wizards' duelling rules allow this. Two wizards could easily kill each other elsewise. Sorry i'm not familiar with the rules but I'm still dubious about an out and out duel.
Planar Wanderer 11-13-05, 12:19 PM	One problem I have is that I'm DMing a solo campaign with a human wizard. Is there any kind of ideas for a spell based game out there? Perhaps a "steady hand" game using mage hand? you could use walls of fire and something flammable as the object: try to get the item to the end of course, since it would have to be run off dex checks it doesn't really come under the heading of a skill game though and I'm guessing you probably don't want to do card games with a deck of many things (technically spell based but a really bad idea unless you are planning on forever earning the title of "evil DM").Perhaps tying in with the obstacle course mentioned earlier you could have a few puzzles to be solved with spells anything from fetching something that is placed out of reach (could be mage handed, you could fly up etc.) and theres always good fun in the old riddles or how about a puzzle that needs you to scry on another area to solve it. right now I'm juyst pulling things off the top of my head so some may not be the best ideas but they're more intended as "food for thought"
hammer_hand 11-13-05, 12:31 PM	Liking the idea of a magic obstacle course. My plan for it goes thus: get the wooden key too you through a wall of fire to open door 1, disbelieve image of an illusion of a very alluring lover or fall down a hidden pit, cast five spells on a door to open it (these are depicted by symbols such as a snow flake for a ray of frost or a skull for cause fear etc.) and finally solve a riddle from an Andro Sphinx with a phobia to blood.
Eliza_Stormwhisper 11-13-05, 12:39 PM	Conjurer's chess, as presented in the Complete Warrior involves strategy and luck. You can summon any "level" of monster, and the strategy applies by your decisions of how powerful a monster to summon, since by the rules of the game you must summon the monster without knowing what your opponent has summoned. Assuming two 20th-level conjurers dueling, one could cast Summon Monster IX, for power, while the other casts Summon Monster I in hopes that the pitiful summoned monster will waste time of the more powerful one's spell. I ran a game session once where the party wizard entered a conjurer's chess tournament. It was fun.
On_the_wings_of_TPK 11-13-05, 12:43 PM	You could also go with a game of conjurors chess. Or maybe a riddle. the wizard could do the obsticle course, just include lots of riddles and puzzle based obsticles. The general just of a mage duel is as follows: An area is cordoned off for the duel. Any wizard to leave the are after entering immediately forfits. All spell and spell effects immedaitely end once they leave the area as well. Both wizards decide on how many rounds they are going to take to prepare and then enter the area. While in the area all spells and summoned monsters deal only subdual half damage. A death effect, such as fingure of death, halves the wizards current hit point total, subdual of course. The wizard who drops his oppent to zero winns. Try making rules for DND poker...Lots of skill in that game.
Escef 11-13-05, 06:33 PM	Sorry i'm not familiar with the rules but I'm still dubious about an out and out duel. Look it up next time your in a bookstore. It's either in the Forgotten Realms Campaign Sourcebook or Magic of Faerun. If you like the rules, great! If not, that's ok too. :D
MessiahOmega 11-13-05, 10:02 PM	i know its more rougish, but a dice game would use slight of hand to cheat at dice and cards i would think, though bluff would be good i suppose. what about a game that uses spellcraft and arcane knowledge ? or, in one of the Drizz't books, two wizards took it in turns of trying to destroy zombie things, one would cast a spell and try to out do the other. you could do it like this each caster takes a turn to cast a spell at some targets (undead would be good, but objects would be ok) in a display of arcaneness effectiveness of display= spell level+caster level+spell craft. the opponant rolls caster level+knowledge arcane+sense motive if the caster beats the opponant on a d20 roll plus the above stuff, then the opponant is suitably impressed with the wizards skill if the opponant wins, then its their turn to cast. somthing like that would be cool.
prozacman 11-14-05, 04:28 AM	didnt read everything, so sorry if someone already mentioned this, BUT i have a rogue who loves to cheat people in games, he's a big fan of card games. so he often challenges people to blackjack at high stakes. The Dm ruled that i had to make a sleight of hand opposed by my opponents spot check. depending of the degree of my success (aka, how high i rolled) i got X number of cards (my choice) to sit on my lap, and the rest were delt randomly by the DM. of course after 3 blackjacks in a row.. we'll its real hard to convince them i wasnt cheating